Division of utterpradesh

Hi,
Many of the readers might not be from Utter Pradesh but we must not forget a large portion of Jat population and other agricultural communities live in Utter Pradesh. They not only live there but are considered one of the best farmers, defense personnel and administrators. In the event of changing economic and social scenarios we need to consider strong facts behind making new states out of Utter Pradesh.

I propose to start this thread in order to generate a view and some common facts behind making of new states out of Utter Pradesh.
 
Some facts to consider:

1. Most of the revenue in form of land revenue and other development policies come from western Utter Pradesh.
2. Western utter pradesh has the best cultivable/fertile agriculture land and its close proximity to national capital Delhi makes it an area which involves huge amount of money in different forms.
3. Most of the politicians and bureaucrats come from East side of utter pradesh or other areas of utter pradesh.
4. We have already seen how different political parties and burocrates have made uttter pradesh as a source of never ending source of money giving state.
5. Such politicial parties are just here to gather huge amount of wealth for their families and community persons.
6. Crores of ruppes have been siphoned of into foreign back accounts and other money making organizations run/direct or indirect involvement by such political parties.
7. There is a nexus between land developers and government, where government acquires huge amount of land in the name of development leaving farmers and other people involved with such trades useless.
8. There is no basic emmanities for normal citizens. One can see the pathetic state of neighboring cities like Ghaziabad, Meerut, etc. There is an urgent need to bring high speed rail network and metro train connectivity to these cities. Leave aside metro train, even the roads connecting these cities and interior roads of these cities are heavily congested with traffic.
9. Who is suffering in the end: everyday citizen because he has to go around doing his everyday job. Farmers in particular, this area had the best farming land and now is going to become the worst farming land because of government policies, attitude and corruption.
 
1. In the name of communities, individuals, certain segments of people, political parties in Utter Pradesh are gathering immense wealth at the cost of everyday life of tax payer, farmer and any other citizen of the state.

It is essential that each political party, political familie, etc. Wealth should be accounted for as soon as possible before it is too late. In case of inappropriate wealth they should be charged with highest criminal penalty.
 
I am not of the opinion that a new state in India should be created at all (especially not on the grounds that you have mentioned such as high concentration of Jat population, economical status of the population residing in a particular area). This just fuels the existing fire of demand of separate states like Telangana, Bodoland Khalistan etc.
The cost of creating a new state is astronomical and going to hit the back pocket of none but the general population. Just imagine that new state is going to have new CM, new Cabinet of ministers, MLAs (another opportunity to have a new crop of corrupt politicians).
A new secretariat has to be built, a whole new police force to be built from scratch. These are just few quick examples.
Who knows that this may also give birth to a new feuds such as the ones existing between Punjab & Haryana over sharing the water & Chandigarh. So just don't open the Pandora's box.
 
The cost of creating a new state is astronomical and going to hit the back pocket of none but the general population. Just imagine that new state is going to have new CM, new Cabinet of ministers, MLAs (another opportunity to have a new crop of corrupt politicians).
A new secretariat has to be built, a whole new police force to be built from scratch. These are just few quick examples.
Who knows that this may also give birth to a new feuds such as the ones existing between Punjab & Haryana over sharing the water & Chandigarh. So just don't open the Pandora's box.


Look at it this way too, agriculture rich area like West UP wil be more closer to power center unlike Lucknow, resources will be more available, a person from Baghpat will not have to travel to Allahbad to fight cases in high court and lose money in travel. Big states like UP have big problems, CMs are from east and west seldom get attention. Local leaders are in minority and more- are of no good. With the formation of a new and smaller state the resources can be used better, take UK for example and its growth after division.
 
Look at it this way too, agriculture rich area like West UP wil be more closer to power center unlike Lucknow, resources will be more available, a person from Baghpat will not have to travel to Allahbad to fight cases in high court and lose money in travel. Big states like UP have big problems, CMs are from east and west seldom get attention. Local leaders are in minority and more- are of no good. With the formation of a new and smaller state the resources can be used better, take UK for example and its growth after division.

Rightly said. U speak like a learned person.
 
Some facts to consider:

1. Most of the revenue in form of land revenue and other development policies come from western Utter Pradesh.
2. Western utter pradesh has the best cultivable/fertile agriculture land and its close proximity to national capital Delhi makes it an area which involves huge amount of money in different forms.
3. Most of the politicians and bureaucrats come from East side of utter pradesh or other areas of utter pradesh.
4. We have already seen how different political parties and burocrates have made uttter pradesh as a source of never ending source of money giving state.
5. Such politicial parties are just here to gather huge amount of wealth for their families and community persons.
6. Crores of ruppes have been siphoned of into foreign back accounts and other money making organizations run/direct or indirect involvement by such political parties.
7. There is a nexus between land developers and government, where government acquires huge amount of land in the name of development leaving farmers and other people involved with such trades useless.
8. There is no basic emmanities for normal citizens. One can see the pathetic state of neighboring cities like Ghaziabad, Meerut, etc. There is an urgent need to bring high speed rail network and metro train connectivity to these cities. Leave aside metro train, even the roads connecting these cities and interior roads of these cities are heavily congested with traffic.
9. Who is suffering in the end: everyday citizen because he has to go around doing his everyday job. Farmers in particular, this area had the best farming land and now is going to become the worst farming land because of government policies, attitude and corruption.


Let us look at some facts:

1. I stated Jat farmers and other farming communities. Why i stated Jats not because, i am a Jat but the region around which major commercial development is taking place is inhabited by farming communities whether that be Jats, Rajpoots, Gujjars, Brahmans, Sainis or who so ever. Most of the people of Indo Ganagatic plains and areas near Yamuna are involved in agriculture, so are the trades of other communities like Baniyas or other trading people. As the mass industrialization of India is a recent affair in the history of India, so the age old ways of working and trading is changing too fast. In old times as well cities were linked with villages and trade in cities depended on agricultural produce in villages. In present circumstances, the way (state governments being led by uneducated/non learned, money hungry criminal communities/people), things are not going to get any better. The inter cultural trade between villages and cities will break down with unplanned government policies of encroaching/occupying farmers land by the state government.

2. The state like Utter Pradesh is totally lawless and with out any direction. A recent example of political parties spending crores of ruppes to make statues and parks was seen in last few years. The new governments are not any better and a clear cut nexus can be seen. This is the case, when there is no basic emmenities for its citizens. After all Utter Pradesh is the closest to national capital Delhi and has a huge potential in-terms of revenue and other sources of government money, that can be used to develop the state itself. The point is where is this money going????

3. Why can this state not develop its cities into model cities??

4. The basic reason is the size of the state itself. It is one of the biggest state in India with a good density of population.

5. With the increase in size of the state and density of population crime and accountability for right or wrong work can not be established.

6. Take for example a simple case of Judiciary system, all the law cases relating to High court have to go to Allahabad. Why????

7. Why does a poor person have to spend all his life running from one place to another to contact a government officer?? Why does a person wanting to connect to state government have to go to Lucknow????

8. Any government or Judiciary power/high court/lower court should be in reach of any common citizen of the state with in a day's reach.

9. The present state is pathetic.

10. The focus of governments should be on the upliftment of people through education, medical facilities, proper transport system. This is not the case.

11. Farmers lands are being taken away and a mass scale of unplanned development is taking place, which can be seen by every day citizens.

12. Rivers are becoming gutters of sewers, water table is going down, soil is being covered by concrete. Water wet lands which used to bring up water tables is being encroached by land mafia.

13. We know, what is happening to global weather conditions and even this summer the weather temperature is well above normal.

14. With this kind of unplanned development, corrupt governments and corrupt politicians we are not making it any better, rather we are making it worse for every citizen.

15. The only solution to the problem are smaller states made out of Utter Pradesh.

16. Setting up of new High court bench and government offices which are close to citizens or with in approach of one day time period.

17. In a smaller state it is easy to set accountability and easy to control.

18.If the state of Utter Pradesh goes on the way it is going, i am sure the day is not far away, when people of western utter pradesh will not even get drinking water and clean air to breath.

19. Farmers will be left out uneducated and with very small holdings of land and they will not be even properly educated to earn a decent living in a city. We must remember life in city is not any cheaper. The price in city of every commodity increases as one approaches the city.

20. It is better to act fast then late and get the state of Utter Pradesh divided so that each portion of Utter Pradesh can reorganize itself to the changing economic and urban development.
 
Let us look at some facts:

1. I stated Jat farmers and other farming communities. Why i stated Jats not because, i am a Jat but the region around which major commercial development is taking place is inhabited by farming communities whether that be Jats, Rajpoots, Gujjars, Brahmans, Sainis or who so ever. Most of the people of Indo Ganagatic plains and areas near Yamuna are involved in agriculture, so are the trades of other communities like Baniyas or other trading people. As the mass industrialization of India is a recent affair in the history of India, so the age old ways of working and trading is changing too fast. In old times as well cities were linked with villages and trade in cities depended on agricultural produce in villages. In present circumstances, the way (state governments being led by uneducated/non learned, money hungry criminal communities/people), things are not going to get any better. The inter cultural trade between villages and cities will break down with unplanned government policies of encroaching/occupying farmers land by the state government.

2. The state like Utter Pradesh is totally lawless and with out any direction. A recent example of political parties spending crores of ruppes to make statues and parks was seen in last few years. The new governments are not any better and a clear cut nexus can be seen. This is the case, when there is no basic emmenities for its citizens. After all Utter Pradesh is the closest to national capital Delhi and has a huge potential in-terms of revenue and other sources of government money, that can be used to develop the state itself. The point is where is this money going????

3. Why can this state not develop its cities into model cities??

4. The basic reason is the size of the state itself. It is one of the biggest state in India with a good density of population.

5. With the increase in size of the state and density of population crime and accountability for right or wrong work can not be established.

6. Take for example a simple case of Judiciary system, all the law cases relating to High court have to go to Allahabad. Why????

7. Why does a poor person have to spend all his life running from one place to another to contact a government officer?? Why does a person wanting to connect to state government have to go to Lucknow????

8. Any government or Judiciary power/high court/lower court should be in reach of any common citizen of the state with in a day's reach.

9. The present state is pathetic.

10. The focus of governments should be on the upliftment of people through education, medical facilities, proper transport system. This is not the case.

11. Farmers lands are being taken away and a mass scale of unplanned development is taking place, which can be seen by every day citizens.

12. Rivers are becoming gutters of sewers, water table is going down, soil is being covered by concrete. Water wet lands which used to bring up water tables is being encroached by land mafia.

13. We know, what is happening to global weather conditions and even this summer the weather temperature is well above normal.

14. With this kind of unplanned development, corrupt governments and corrupt politicians we are not making it any better, rather we are making it worse for every citizen.

15. The only solution to the problem are smaller states made out of Utter Pradesh.

16. Setting up of new High court bench and government offices which are close to citizens or with in approach of one day time period.

17. In a smaller state it is easy to set accountability and easy to control.

18.If the state of Utter Pradesh goes on the way it is going, i am sure the day is not far away, when people of western utter pradesh will not even get drinking water and clean air to breath.

19. Farmers will be left out uneducated and with very small holdings of land and they will not be even properly educated to earn a decent living in a city. We must remember life in city is not any cheaper. The price in city of every commodity increases as one approaches the city.

20. It is better to act fast then late and get the state of Utter Pradesh divided so that each portion of Utter Pradesh can reorganize itself to the changing economic and urban development.


This state has been ruled too long by mafia mentality people. It is time for a change. The first priority of the citizens of the state should be to divide the state for better governance and management of resources.
 
This state has been ruled too long by mafia mentality people. It is time for a change. The first priority of the citizens of the state should be to divide the state for better governance and management of resources.

Perhaps, the answer lies in not bifurcation of political and administrative units but all inclusive development and transparent governance at all levels; which may seem a distant dream but not unattainable !
 
I am not of the opinion that a new state in India should be created at all (especially not on the grounds that you have mentioned such as high concentration of Jat population, economical status of the population residing in a particular area). This just fuels the existing fire of demand of separate states like Telangana, Bodoland Khalistan etc.
India is said to be indestructible union of destructible states, so there is nothing wrong in creating new states. Khalistan movement is not for separate state but for a separate nation. You should not mix demand of Khalistan with demand of new states. It's necessary to have smaller states for batter administration of country, US has 51 states despite having much lesser population than India. Power must be devolved to local level for batter administration and efficiency, and there is no batter way of power devolution than creating new states.

The cost of creating a new state is astronomical and going to hit the back pocket of none but the general population. Just imagine that new state is going to have new CM, new Cabinet of ministers, MLAs (another opportunity to have a new crop of corrupt politicians).
You have to live with politicians if you don't want to live in a despotic rule.
A new secretariat has to be built, a whole new police force to be built from scratch. These are just few quick examples.
It will create infrastructure and jobs.
Who knows that this may also give birth to a new feuds such as the ones existing between Punjab & Haryana over sharing the water & Chandigarh. So just don't open the Pandora's box.
So do you propose merger of Punjab and Haryana to avoid water dispute ?
 
India is said to be indestructible union of destructible states, so there is nothing wrong in creating new states. Khalistan movement is not for separate state but for a separate nation. You should not mix demand of Khalistan with demand of new states. It's necessary to have smaller states for batter administration of country, US has 51 states despite having much lesser population than India. Power must be devolved to local level for batter administration and efficiency, and there is no batter way of power devolution than creating new states.


You have to live with politicians if you don't want to live in a despotic rule.

It will create infrastructure and jobs.

So do you propose merger of Punjab and Haryana to avoid water dispute ?

Blah, Blah, Blah.

Things are simple:

1. Local people know their needs, know their land, know their water and know their roads.
2. What they do not know is how much money was generated through local revenue sources and where did it all go? Who was responsible for the money?, What all projects were allocated money, who were the people responsible/accountable for this money, how was this money utilized, how was this money used in the project? Where did the money go?
3.Lack of education, lack of transparency in records, hi-jack of the local system of information related with money utilization and records, lead to channeling of money in wrong hands of politicians, government officers and persons responsible for these projects.
4. The main point is all the money that is being generated is being generated due to land development and tax payers money. How long will this corruption continue?
5. The same farmers and the tax payers, who are paying the money and selling their land to to the government and land developers will use the same public facilities such as roads, drinking water, public schools for their children, etc. These will facilities will not be upto standards and the same people who sold their land to the government, paid taxes to the government will suffer. Their children and families will not get quality education, medical facilites, public convenience facilities.
6. In the end it is the public who has to suffer not the politicians or bureaucrats.
7. Politicians and corrupt bureaucrats money will be safe in foreign accounts which can never be accessed by local law agencies or even nationalized law agencies.
8. Corrupt politicians and their parties are spreading their net through out country.
9. Utter Pradesh is one of the worst case in entire nation.
 
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Dr. Rajpal, your thoughts on transparent governance at all levels is good on the other hand "not bifurcation" is not good. The arguments and counterarguments for new states formation are never ending. We have to acknowledge that for good governance and transparent governance, the units of governance have to be of manageable size. Not only, the land area of the state should be manageable but also the population pressure. The area of Western Utterpradesh is having one of the highest density of populations and this changes the manageability scenario of the state.
Utter Pradesh is being governed by political parties who are just exploiting communal feelings, religious feelings, uneducated people, illiterate people and such political parties are living on the fresh money that is being generated due to close proximity of this state to national capital "Delhi". The political parties are not concerned about the the everyday person trying to make a living for himself and his family.
 
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Dr. Rajpal, your thoughts on transparent governance at all levels is good on the other hand "not bifurcation" is not good. The arguments and counterarguments for new states formation are never ending. We have to acknowledge that for good governance and transparent governance, the units of governance have to be of manageable size. Not only, the land area of the state should be manageable but also the population pressure. The area of Western Utterpradesh is having one of the highest density of populations and this changes the manageability scenario of the state.
Utter Pradesh is being governed by political parties who are just exploiting communal feelings, religious feelings, uneducated people, illiterate people and on the fresh money that is being generated due to close proximity of this state to national capital "Delhi". The political parties are not concerned about the the everyday person trying to make a living for himself and his family.

These political parties are becoming parties of family dynasties and local goons, who have been extracting money from everyday person for long time in one form or the other.
 
Harit Pradesh should be crafted from UP asap.

Division of Utter Pradesh will allow the new formed states to take control of their destinies and life.
The eastern parts and other new parts of the states will stop having a parasitic existence on Western Utter Pradesh.
Small states will be better able to adapt and organize themselves to the changing economic conditions of the country.
In small states the adaptation, organization and execution happens faster.
Law and order is easy and fast to control.
If state has a high density of population, then law and order becomes a major issue, a smaller state is better manageable.
Already industry, service sector and other forms of commercial life has started dominating lives of people with the development of mega cities like Noida and adjoining areas of Delhi. Population has moved towards this form of life and is moving away from an agriculture based life. Therefore there is an immediate need to form newer states for better management of resources like land, water, air, population, etc.
 
Division of Utter Pradesh will allow the new formed states to take control of their destinies and life.
The eastern parts and other new parts of the states will stop having a parasitic existence on Western Utter Pradesh.
Small states will be better able to adapt and organize themselves to the changing economic conditions of the country.
In small states the adaptation, organization and execution happens faster.
Law and order is easy and fast to control.
If state has a high density of population, then law and order becomes a major issue, a smaller state is better manageable.
Already industry, service sector and other forms of commercial life has started dominating lives of people with the development of mega cities like Noida and adjoining areas of Delhi. Population has moved towards this form of life and is moving away from an agriculture based life. Therefore there is an immediate need to form newer states for better management of resources like land, water, air, population, etc.

The later the division of the state happens the more poorer the western region of Utter Pradesh becomes. Already we can see the basic infrastructure in western utterpradesh crumbling. The roads are in pathetic condition, public facilities are the poorest in the country and just think that this place is right next to National capital "Delhi" and it is in such a pathetic situation.
 
The later the division of the state happens the more poorer the western region of Utter Pradesh becomes. Already we can see the basic infrastructure in western utterpradesh crumbling. The roads are in pathetic condition, public facilities are the poorest in the country and just think that this place is right next to National capital "Delhi" and it is in such a pathetic situation.

Political parties will only drain money out of Utter Pradesh until and unless people of western utter pradesh do not take control of the situation and do some fruitful about the whole issue.
 
There should be a movement for this like reservation movement

The later the division of the state happens the more poorer the western region of Utter Pradesh becomes. Already we can see the basic infrastructure in western utterpradesh crumbling. The roads are in pathetic condition, public facilities are the poorest in the country and just think that this place is right next to National capital "Delhi" and it is in such a pathetic situation.
 
There should be a movement for this like reservation movement

U are right. The point is this is not for one community to realize that there should be division of state. It is for all the people, communities, tribes or whosoever residing in Utter Pradesh to realize.

To break this continuous cycle of bad/criminal people ruling the state the only solution is to break the state and form new political parties headed by educated and learned people. Till these things happen some parties will only make Utter Pradesh their money draining area and spread their network across region and throughout India.

People of Utter Pradesh should realize that the way people of India have lived till now is changing very fast and will not be same in future. Right now farmers might get easy money by selling their land but in future, if the same situations remain, these farmers and other people dependent on their livelihood due to farming and allied industries will see very difficult circumstances. Value of money is decreasing and economy is changing.
 
Blah, Blah, Blah.

Things are simple:

1. Local people know their needs, know their land, know their water and know their roads.
2. What they do not know is how much money was generated through local revenue sources and where did it all go? Who was responsible for the money?, What all projects were allocated money, who were the people responsible/accountable for this money, how was this money utilized, how was this money used in the project? Where did the money go?
3.Lack of education, lack of transparency in records, hi-jack of the local system of information related with money utilization and records, lead to channeling of money in wrong hands of politicians, government officers and persons responsible for these projects.
4. The main point is all the money that is being generated is being generated due to land development and tax payers money. How long will this corruption continue?
5. The same farmers and the tax payers, who are paying the money and selling their land to to the government and land developers will use the same public facilities such as roads, drinking water, public schools for their children, etc. These will facilities will not be upto standards and the same people who sold their land to the government, paid taxes to the government will suffer. Their children and families will not get quality education, medical facilites, public convenience facilities.
6. In the end it is the public who has to suffer not the politicians or bureaucrats.
7. Politicians and corrupt bureaucrats money will be safe in foreign accounts which can never be accessed by local law agencies or even nationalized law agencies.
8. Corrupt politicians and their parties are spreading their net through out country.
9. Utter Pradesh is one of the worst case in entire nation.

Spot on! You hit the nail on the head!
 
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