Do Hindus help Destitutes ????

[rkumar]

Dear Friends,

Often we Hindus blame Cristians and Muslims for converting Hindus. However, have we ever wondered how unhelping our Hindus are to their own fellows ? How lepers are segregated ? How scheduled caste people are segregated in villages ? List can go on. Here is a link to a story how a leper's daughter made it to a university in UK;

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Daughter+of+a+leper+graduates+from+UK&id=76057

I would like to know from memebrs about similer help received by a leper or alike from a Hindu Holy man ? Does VHP consider scheduled caste Hindus competent enough to be part of them?

RK^2

 

[vsinghchaudhry]

!

One of the reasons i feel disgusted being 1,arya samaj trys to rid us of this evil and we see the same trend in sikhism too ,but our fellow jats are still under the influence of these people that have corrupted the religion.

 

[rkumar]

I think we Hindus need to clean up our acts as much as Muslims. Hindu religious bodies are not playing their due role in lifting the lot of Harijans and other lower strata of our society. If we compare the role of our priests to those of Christians, we are way below in spreading education and social awareness.

RK^2

 

[raj2rif]

I think we Hindus need to clean up our acts as much as Muslims. Hindu religious bodies are not playing their due role in lifting the lot of Harijans and other lower strata of our society. If we compare the role of our priests to those of Christians, we are way below in spreading education and social awareness.

RK^2

Dear RKK Ji,

I personally feel that most religious institutions have failed in truely implementing the teachings as described in the religious books. These institutions have divided the public more than uniting them. As far as Hindu religion goes, you have said rightly, we have never bothores about our less fortunate brothers. We had been very harsh on scheduled casts (as we call them) in past and continue to be so. Now problem is more of political nature than a social nature. With the reservations in, the so called upper caste ( I would rather call them those who don't have the benefit of reservations as I don't consider any caste as upper or lower) feel alienated from the people who have reservations. Similarly, the people who have the benefit of reservations are also in no mood for reconcilation and uniting in the name of nation. Every one is looking for their personal interests. So long personal interests are not compromised, we talk about unity, upliftment and all other social reforms.

It is a very good point raised by you. We need to find out a solution. You are right we the Hindu religion need to look into our own affairs first.

 

[deepender]

To Rajendra uncleji's point, the current self-proclaimed religious Hindu bodies, I think, have been unsucessful as they are still trying to enforce the old brand of Hinduism with all the vices that come with regressive caste-based orthodoxy.
And I also believe the solution to this problem lies is in spreading 'Arya Samajism' beyond the limits of Jat hearland in northern Indian plains.

Review of Nonica Datta's 'fiction' book on Jat History provided this view on Arya Samaj, Jats and Hinduism:
"There is a general agreement among historians that the Jats had the status of Shudras in the Brahminical social order in the past, even lower than that at some stage. The book under review provides ample evidence to show that the Jats were very much part of the lower strata in the caste hierarchy and were looked down upon by the higher castes like the Brahmins and Rajputs.
Like other depressed castes, the Jats too had an aspiration to rise in the caste hierarchy through the process of Sanskritisation. This process got a fillip at the hands of the Arya Samaj.
Whatever be the later-day notions about the superiority of the Jat “quom”, Jats were stigmatised by the higher castes. The Brahmins treated the Jats as Shudras and denied them the right to wear the sacred thread. The Arya Samaj’s attack on Brahminical rituals, orthodoxy, superstitions and caste rigidity had a natural appeal for the Jats and they easily took to it. "


Ofcourse this book is totally bogus and clearly written by someone who, it seems, has not visited one Jat village to see social structure, and Arya Samaj values in practise; but this does provide an insight into how some of the Hindus still following the regressive orthodox tradition continue to see the world from lenses of unbelievable caste-based judgements.
This author might've been closer to truth on one point however, that the Jats and Arya Samajis are not tied to the same orthodox Hindu tradition. Infact, in my judgement, Arya Samaj = (Hindusim - Some of the backward looking vices like those associated with caste-based orthodoxy etc.)

In conclusion, I believe that 'Arya Samajism' is one of the most progressive version of Hinduism and the time has come for the Arya Samaji Jats to take on the cudgels to spread Arya Samaj values to other Hindus -- other caste Hindus in Jat heartland and to all in general in other regions of India....

We need to have a strong Arya Samaj missionary organization perhaps.....

 

[birbal]

Rajendraji,

The term "Hindu Holy Man" is an oxymoron because there is nothing Holy in these VHP types. Leave alone helping destitutes, there goal is to go back to the traditional Hinduism. In that case there is no need for educating the lower castes (including Jats) because they have been born in lower caste because of misdeeds in their previous life, and if they tolerate all the crap quietly, better things wait in the next life.

It is truly sad that the Arya Samaj which helped the Jat community so much is almost disappeared.

 

[raj2rif]

Rajendraji,

The term "Hindu Holy Man" is an oxymoron because there is nothing Holy in these VHP types. Leave alone helping destitutes, there goal is to go back to the traditional Hinduism. In that case there is no need for educating the lower castes (including Jats) because they have been born in lower caste because of misdeeds in their previous life, and if they tolerate all the crap quietly, better things wait in the next life.

It is truly sad that the Arya Samaj which helped the Jat community so much is almost disappeared.

Dear Birbal Ji,

I agree with your views. Let us find the way to make Arya Samaj Popular, or say let us revive it. Any suggestions?

 

[raj_rathee]

Dear Birbal Ji,

I agree with your views. Let us find the way to make Arya Samaj Popular, or say let us revive it. Any suggestions?

Arya Samaj organisations ARE active. I don't know their scope
and breadth of activities.

My dad takes lot of interest in Arya Samaj, and organises Arya
Samaj gatherings in our village (annually or maybe biannually). Its usually
a 2-3 day affair where outside speakers etc are invited.

Recently a friend here in California, during his vacation break in India,
also took my dad's help in organising such a gathering in his village.

I think that is probably the way to go about it. Find a person or two
in each village who already takes interest and is substantially motivated
to help spread the message.

Such things are ongoing affairs...once you stop other people start coming
in with a different set of messages. I know that for a while (perhaps even
now) Jainism was picking up in our village. They had a centre in the village,
and even had some women become "satijees".....essentially whoever gets the
ear gets the influence.......

 

[rkumar]

Deepender!, I am not sure how Nonica Dutta reached to the conclusion that Jats were Sudras or even below Sudras in some cases. As far as my knowledge goes, Sudras are the one who serve all other three varnas. Jats are never known to serve others in any manner. Jats are most warriers or agriculturists. I have never heard of a Jat working as house hold help or anything alike. Nonica Dutta is a Typical Bengali intellectual ( read communist breed) who are known to be anti-Jats as Jats never fell into communists ideaology. I wonder if her work can be taken to court ????

RK^2

 

[rkumar]

Dear Birbal Ji,

I agree with your views. Let us find the way to make Arya Samaj Popular, or say let us revive it. Any suggestions?

Fully agree with you Tavathia Sahab. Arya Samaj needs to be made more proactive in villages.

RK^2

 

[birbal]

Deepender!, I am not sure how Nonica Dutta reached to the conclusion that Jats were Sudras or even below Sudras in some cases. As far as my knowledge goes, Sudras are the one who serve all other three varnas. Jats are never known to serve others in any manner. Jats are most warriers or agriculturists. I have never heard of a Jat working as house hold help or anything alike. Nonica Dutta is a Typical Bengali intellectual ( read communist breed) who are known to be anti-Jats as Jats never fell into communists ideaology. I wonder if her work can be taken to court ????

RK^2

Rajendraji,

The claim that Jats were considered Sudras is correct. Lot of people confuse the words Sudra and Untouchable, but the Untouchables are not part of the four Hindu Varnas. We have an anthropologist amongst us and I am sure he can clarify further.

I personally do not care what the Brahmins think as I believe all believers in Brahminical Hindu religion are cowards, cheats, liars and so on.

 

[raj2rif]

Rajendraji,

The claim that Jats were considered Sudras is correct. Lot of people confuse the words Sudra and Untouchable, but the Untouchables are not part of the four Hindu Varnas. We have an anthropologist amongst us and I am sure he can clarify further.

I personally do not care what the Brahmins think as I believe all believers in Brahminical Hindu religion are cowards, cheats, liars and so on.

Dear Birbal Ji,

When I was growing up in my village, I heard people saying that Jats were Kshtriyas for their fighting qualities and since most of them had served in various armies for long time. Later on I read that Jats belonged to Vaishya category being the farming community. I never heard that the Jats are part of Sudra category. With the definition that had been given in books, to me Jats do form part of Vaishya Category.

 

[rkumar]

Rajendraji,

The claim that Jats were considered Sudras is correct. Lot of people confuse the words Sudra and Untouchable, but the Untouchables are not part of the four Hindu Varnas. We have an anthropologist amongst us and I am sure he can clarify further.

I personally do not care what the Brahmins think as I believe all believers in Brahminical Hindu religion are cowards, cheats, liars and so on.

Birbal singh Ji,

I would like to know the justifications of putting Jats under Sudra catagory. Who are these people who justfy our being Sudra?

RK^2

 

[birbal]

Rajendraji and Col. Tewatiaji,

I am amazed that how much time and energy lot of people devote in trying to fit themselves close to the top in the Brahminical structure. I know Kumhars (Potters) have an association and call themselves Kumawat Khstriyas, Khatis (Carpenters) try to portray themselves as "Jangid Brahmins", Darogas (including our former Prime Minister, Chandrasekhar) want to call themselves Rajputs, and the list goes on and on. Every believer in the corrupt Brahminical religion wants to be related to the fictitious Lord Rama just like every Muslim I know claims to be a direct descendent of the Prophet Mohammed. Trying to upgrade one's ancestory, in opinion, is nothing but shallowness.

Jats ruled vast areas of India at one time and so did many other groups like Gujjars, Yadavas, Sansis, Brahmins, and even a Barber (Nai) founded one of the greatest empires in Indian history. You may be surprised that even Baniyas were rulers ( Agroha in Haryana is founded by Raja Agrasen, a Baniya) and Hemu, the Commander of the army opposing Bairam Khan in the second battle of Panipat was a Baniya. I am a Jhajharia by Gotra and we have written records with Berwas going back to 1124 A.D. and until about the middle of 17th century, Jhajharias ruled parts of Rajasthan before being ousted by Muslims and their allies over the centuries, Rajputs.

The fact remains that for a long time India remained under alien subjugation because of the Hindu religion. Vast majority of Indian citizens were denied access to knowledge and no society can move forward in ignorance. Just imagine what situation we would be in today if Swami Dayanand was not born?

Fabricating history has become an obscession in India especially with the BJP/VHP types. Their ancestors were traitors for over a thousand years as they first supported the Muslims and later the British, but now want to make their claims to patriotism by falsifying history. It was the Brahmins who helped the Muslims oust the Jats in Sind during the beginning of Muslim ascendency in India.

By the way Jats were included in Scheduled Castes after independence in the State of Ajmer.

 

[deepender]

Rajendra ji, Dr Birbal Singh ji and Col Tavathia ji,

I agree with a view that has been put forth that we need to do do more about Arya Samaj movement. I believe the time is right to take Arya Samaj movement to people from other castes, regions and religions. We need to promote Arya Samaj movement as 'progressive Hinduism', which can provide an alternative to the rigid caste-based orthodoxy of so-called 'traditional Hinduism' propagated by the so-called gaurdians of Hindu faith like VHP.

In my view, we need a Arya Samaj missionary movement like in some other faiths like Christianity, Jainism or Budhism. Or maybe we need any other volunteer based revival movement that is different from other missonary movements but at the end of the day still aims at greater good for society....

Deepender

 

[rkumar]

......By the way Jats were included in Scheduled Castes after independence in the State of Ajmer.

I am keen to hear the reasons of including Jats under scheduled caste In Ajmer. Was it based upon some sound social logic or to paint Jats as lower ? How and when Jats were then taken out of the list ? This is a shocking news to me..

RK^2

 

[abhishek]

.....we need a Arya Samaj missionary movement like in some other faiths like Christianity, Jainism or Budhism. ...

Do we have "Bhamashahs" to bankroll such a "missionary" movements? Traditionally rich hindus ( read Baniyas) have financed "evil brahmanistic hindusim" for ages and it will remain so in foreseeable future unless earth stops rotating on its axis. The primary reason behind the spectacular success ( including mass conversions) of charity works of abrahamic relgions is deep pockets of the promoters.

 

[birbal]

Rajendraji,

Ajmer was a State until it was absorbed in Rajasthan in 1956 reorganization of States. Haribhau Uppaddhyay was the Chief Minister after the first election in 1952 and both the MPs were Brahmins. After the merger Jats in Ajmer were removed from the Scheduled Caste list because they were not in Scheduled Caste in Rjasthan. If you read the Jat History group run by Ravi Chaudhary, there is enough info that Jats were ousted from ruling position in many parts of Rajasthan in 17th century and in the years to follow their situation became worse and worse. The hatred between Jats and Brahmins over centuries is explained in detailed by Col. Cunningham who wrote detailed book about the Caste system in 1850s. The situaion for Jats became worse after 1857 as many of them opposed the British and the Rajputs and Brahmins took full advantage of it to further suppress Jats.

The spectacular rise of Jats in Rajasthan from 1947 to the time BJP came to power and put a stop to it is an interesting subject in itself.

 

[rkumar]

Birbal Singh Ji,

Honestly, my blood boils after reading all these things people have done to our fellow jats in past. We can not go back in past and undo injustice done to us. However, we can certainly take better control of future. Few steps which come to my mind are;

1. Have an organisation similar to VHP which is dominated by Jats, Gujjars and other Hindus who are not having any singnificant role in VHP of Sighal and Togadia.

2. Help scheduled castes and other Hindus to integrate under some suitable Hindu banner.

RK^2

 

[birbal]

Rajendraji,

I am not very parochial about Jats. The bottom line is that no country can come to the forefront in the modern world unless every citizen at birth has a somewhat reasonable chance ( I am not expecting total fairness) to utilize his/her potential for the benefit of the country. Hinduism is the only religion that blocks such opportunities and thats why India can not become a superpower unless Hinduism is replaced in its current form. The Caste system of course, was the best workable system in the pre-industrial era because of the need of large number of people for menial labour. Just to digress here, remember that Agra was a city of nearly 750,000 people at the time of Aurangzeb and according to Italian traveller and historian Mancucci, it was very clean. We know it was so clean because of the large numbers of Hindu untouchables doing that kind of work. Actually, it may be laughable, but the Muslims stopped converting Hindus because they realized they needed the Hindu Caste system to rule the country. So, they converted selectively on need basis only.

In theory, your idea of uniting various real hard working groups like Jats, Gujjars, Ahirs, etc. will be wonderful but it needs a leader. Chaudhary Charan Singh achieved a lot by uniting such groups for a while (remember AJGR).