Does India need to increase or decrease it's defense spending?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dahiyarules
  • Start date Start date

Does India need to increase it's defense spending?

  • Yes! We need to increase our defense spending.

    Votes: 16 61.5%
  • No! We need to decrease our defense spending.

    Votes: 8 30.8%
  • Defense could be privately funded, where everyone paid their fair share.

    Votes: 2 7.7%

  • Total voters
    26
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dahiyarules

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I am starting this new thread to know what Jatlanders think about Military spending.

Please answer the poll and submit your views on this issue. Tell me why you think that we need to increase or decrease our Military budget.

I read a really wonderful article on this issue in an economic journal. I won't tell you anything about it at this moment. But, once I get a general sense about most of us think about this issue, I will post it here.
 
Sumit,Our Military spendings can be cut out if we can be guareteed a trouble free reigion.If there is a guarenteed peace for next 100 years on the borders and in the world then ofcourse there is no need for defense forces also but is it possible..? Till such time we have nasty neighbours and ever increasing arms pile ups around us,it will be dead foolish to even debate an issue of this nature.
 
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Sumit,Our Military spendings can be cut out if we can be guareteed a trouble free reigion.If there is a guarenteed peace for next 100 years on the borders and in the world then ofcourse there is no need for defense forces also but is it possible..? Till such time we have nasty neighbours and ever increasing arms pile ups around us,it will be dead foolish to even debate an issue of this nature.

I am sure leaders of China and Pakistan use your line of reasoning with their own people. Ofcourse, they do not tell their people that "India is a very friendly nation. So, we need to spend more on the military."
 
I am sure leaders of China and Pakistan use your line of reasoning with their own people. Ofcourse, they do not tell their people that "India is a very friendly nation. So, we need to spend more on the military."



It is a perception dear and can be twisted the way one wishes.
 
An interesting topic

.
This is an interesting topic to discuss, unless Sumit has started this thread for his well-known “anti-Government” crusade. :)

Defence forces and defence spending in almost all countries are the liabilities of Governments !:)

Here, I am only quoting two web-links.

Annual report of India’s Ministry of Defence:

http://mod.nic.in/reports/MOD-English2006.pdf

Also see “List of countries by military expenditures” on the following web-page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

By the way, the per capita defence expenditure of Pakistan is reported to be almost double compared to India.

Moreover, figures may lie – Governments normally do not publish correct data relating to their defence spendings.
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Sumit Bhai,

India don't have the aggresive nature as China and Pakistan. So it's not that bad if we keep ourselves ready for any happenings.

I hope you remember about Nehru's comment's "Hindi Chini bhai bhai" and what happened after that ???

Power rules the world but not nice thoughts. :)
 
I am sure leaders of China and Pakistan use your line of reasoning with their own people. Ofcourse, they do not tell their people that "India is a very friendly nation. So, we need to spend more on the military."

Can you name me friendly countries India has or ever had ? What the hell Japan had to do when they bombed pearl harbour? Pseudo economists think that every aspect of human life is nothing but simple economic activity. Hope you know why India lost 200 years of economic development ? Why did British took over Indian states one by one and colonised half of the world by military power? No nation can develop economically unless they have sound defence. Ofcourse one needs intelligent rulars also and defence alone can not solve all the ills of a nation. Like a balanced human body, nation also needs to be balanced with a right mix of everything. like weak animals are nothing but fodders of stronger ones, weak nations also serve the same purpose. India has to maintain a very strong defence, else we will be broken into pieces once again. Needless to mention we need strong economy also to support of defence budget.

RK^2
 
Can you name me friendly countries India has or ever had ? What the hell Japan had to do when they bombed pearl harbour? Pseudo economists think that every aspect of human life is nothing but simple economic activity. Hope you know why India lost 200 years of economic development ? Why did British took over Indian states one by one and colonised half of the world by military power? No nation can develop economically unless they have sound defence. Ofcourse one needs intelligent rulars also and defence alone can not solve all the ills of a nation. Like a balanced human body, nation also needs to be balanced with a right mix of everything. like weak animals are nothing but fodders of stronger ones, weak nations also serve the same purpose. India has to maintain a very strong defence, else we will be broken into pieces once again. Needless to mention we need strong economy also to support of defence budget.

RK^2



True word by word.
 
Can you name me friendly countries India has or ever had ? What the hell Japan had to do when they bombed pearl harbour? Pseudo economists think that every aspect of human life is nothing but simple economic activity. Hope you know why India lost 200 years of economic development ? Why did British took over Indian states one by one and colonised half of the world by military power? No nation can develop economically unless they have sound defence. Ofcourse one needs intelligent rulars also and defence alone can not solve all the ills of a nation. Like a balanced human body, nation also needs to be balanced with a right mix of everything. like weak animals are nothing but fodders of stronger ones, weak nations also serve the same purpose. India has to maintain a very strong defence, else we will be broken into pieces once again. Needless to mention we need strong economy also to support of defence budget.

RK^2

very well put..
 
Can you name me friendly countries India has or ever had ? What the hell Japan had to do when they bombed pearl harbour? Pseudo economists think that every aspect of human life is nothing but simple economic activity. Hope you know why India lost 200 years of economic development ? Why did British took over Indian states one by one and colonised half of the world by military power? No nation can develop economically unless they have sound defence. Ofcourse one needs intelligent rulars also and defence alone can not solve all the ills of a nation. Like a balanced human body, nation also needs to be balanced with a right mix of everything. like weak animals are nothing but fodders of stronger ones, weak nations also serve the same purpose. India has to maintain a very strong defence, else we will be broken into pieces once again. Needless to mention we need strong economy also to support of defence budget.

RK^2

Because of socialist minded fascist people of your generation who ran India after our Independence, India lost 40 years.

The new generation has come to appreciate the power of free markets and capitalism. You can see the boom all around you. The world just cant seem to stop talking about India and China.
 
Can you name me friendly countries India has or ever had ? What the hell Japan had to do when they bombed pearl harbour?

How many of you know that 5 months before Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt ordered the US Navy to bomb Axis naval fleets. Japan was provoked. Pearl Harbor gave Roosevelt to go to war in a time when a majority of Americans wanted to stay out of it.


Pseudo economists think that every aspect of human life is nothing but simple economic activity. Hope you know why India lost 200 years of economic development ? Why did British took over Indian states one by one and colonised half of the world by military power?

I will be posting the link to the research paper that I read in an Economic journal. Every nation in the history of Mankind, whether a Dictatorship, a Democratic Republic or a Monarchy has had an elite aristocratic class.

In a mercantilist society like the old Great Britain and the New America, the elite aristocracy runs an entire nation. They raise monstrously huge Armies that are funded by taxes pitched in by a hard working middle class. The Armies are also staffed by the children of the poor and the middle class, who are mere cannon fodder. The poor and the middle class are fooled into believing that it is patriotic to support the government's military adventures. Thus Great Britain's colonist wars were pulled off as successful scams for over 200 years. The same can be seen in terms of American military bases in over a 100 countries.

Once the colonization is over, the spoils of war are split among the governing elite aristocrats. Does Haliburton and numerous other oil companies ring a bell in your minds?

Now, do not say that India doesnt do any of this dirty business. But, if we increase our military spending we are definitely headed the same way Great Britain and America went.

How many of you think that America will be the world's superpower forever? I think it will cease to be the case the day Americans wake up and stop funding such foolish government endeavors or sending their children to be the cannon fodder.

By the way, I have a question for Chautala and CM Hooda? Why didn't they send their own children to serve in the military? Isnt it patriotic to serve the country? Why did they push their own children into Politics. CM Hooda went a step further by recalling his son from a decent private sector job in the US to make him the next MP of Rohtak.

Now, I know all the brown-noses and undercover subverts of both Political camps will throw dirt on me. Why not just stick to the real issues here.

No nation can develop economically unless they have sound defence. Ofcourse one needs intelligent rulars also and defence alone can not solve all the ills of a nation. Like a balanced human body, nation also needs to be balanced with a right mix of everything. like weak animals are nothing but fodders of stronger ones, weak nations also serve the same purpose. India has to maintain a very strong defence, else we will be broken into pieces once again.

I strongly believe that all nations altogether need to get rid of their military capabilities entirely. This includes India, Pakistan and ofcourse the "permanent 5 Gang" of the Security council.

Security from radical insurgents could be done privately. There are several companies in this business in Iraq. So far their record is much impressive than the US army. They have lost around 11 contractors in nearly 4 years. Not even one of the clients that they protect have been hurt. There is an immense market for private security, if the government gives up its monopoly in this domain. This market includes average ordinary citizens who are forced to rely on government alternatives because of the unfair monopoly that the government holds making it impossible for the markets to determine the fair price of private security.

Will the governments world over give up their standing Military capabilities? The answer is No. Because people like you will support this foolishness from cradle to grave and discredit people like me who want to propose alternatives; at any cost.

Can the governments world over be forced to give up their Military Capabilities? Yes. We must abstain from sending our children to the military. If the government imposes a draft. We must oppose the draft. We must try to find ways to hide our taxes so that we can run the government's treasury dry. We must not support the murder of another human being by another human being in uniform issued by the government and funded by our tax money.

Needless to mention we need strong economy also to support of defence budget.

RK^2


We need a strong economy to improve our standard of living. We have a lot of important issues at hand that we need to think about like: female foeticide, dowry, rape and molestation of our girls, ample resources for our farmers, an unregulated market for their produce that gives them the best incentive and idea to decide what they need to grow in their next crop, improve the standard of education for our children etc. etc.

The government has failed at all these aspects. Every politician runs on a platform to resolve these issues, but for the past 60 years has only made it worse. Female children are being murdered, brides are being immolated over dowry, girls are being raped, and government provided education has been where it was when the British left.

And you are talking about our next generation to become the government's cannon fodder. Those who are spared of this abuse, according to you should boost our economy so that we can improve the quality of our cannon fodder.

Some say that there is no market for national defense. Yes! I agree with it. The reason is that markets are the barometers of efficiency. Markets accept what creates utility and markets reject what retards efficiency.

That is the reasons markets would never support huge standing armies. But markets will definitely provide solutions for private security. They will ensure that your women are safe from predators. Your children get the best education to achieve their goals. Markets will ensure that our farmers get the requisite resources as and when they need them. Markets will ensure the best price for their produce, and thus increasing the prosperity of the region that feeds an entire nation. I am talking about the bread basket of India: Haryana and Punjab.

I read threads about people suggesting that the government needs to set up ministries for immigration to assist our youth escape to the developed, and fairly economically free west.

Why cant we replicate the west's formula for prosperity in our own country and thus retain our precious and promising youth that can do the same wonders to our country that it can do to the west.

I am not talking about a total blanket on immigration. Free markets will decide what place is better for a person. A person who can contribute the best as a farmer would be a farmer. A person who can contribute the best as a software engineer will be a software engineer. And so on.

In another thread I picked on Deepender Hooda for picking on a state iisue that was beyong his legislation. But, people picked on me for picking on Deepender. They justified his error. Why?

Why are we so subservient towards the most inefficient parasites of all human beings? Kalkhande Sir! its all your fault. And it is the fault of people of your generation who told the people of my generation to respect authority.

Truly said: Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains.

I dont believe in it. I think that it is the moral responsibility of every human being to defy authority. We must respect only what is in our best interest. And it is always in our best interest to have the right to decide how we spend our wealth in order to maximize our welfare. Government alternatives do not allow us this right. Private alternatives do.

I do not want an India with long range missiles topped with nuclear warheads that will kill someone just like me, 10000 miles away. Someone whose only ambition in life is to improve it. To care and provide for his or her loved ones. Trust me, this is what most people in Pakistan think every morning they wake up.
 
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Army enrolments

.

After reading the above post of Sumit, I remember a scene from film Fahrenheit 9/11 where a gentleman is asking the US Senators and Congressmen : “Sir, are you ready to get your son enrolled in US Army”? None of them replies!

The question of defence spending apart, how many of us want our sons or daughters to serve in Indian Army which is facing acute shortage of officers – a stark reality ! Apparently, all of us want to lead a luxurious life style. Joining the armed forces happens to be only the last option, unless it is made compulsory by law (many nations have this law) – a matter of compulsion, rather than choice.
.

 
.

After reading the above post of Sumit, I remember a scene from film Fahrenheit 9/11 where a gentleman is asking the US Senators and Congressmen : “Sir, are you ready to get your son enrolled in US Army”? None of them replies!

The question of defence spending apart, how many of us want our sons or daughters to serve in Indian Army which is facing acute shortage of officers – a stark reality ! Apparently, all of us want to lead a luxurious life style. Joining the armed forces happens to be only the last option, unless it is made compulsory by law (many nations have this law) – a matter of compulsion, rather than choice.
.


There is no question about the lifestyle of a fauji officer. I will never question this one. A civilian can never match an officer's lifestyle. An officer lives like the British elites did in India. Unfortunately, it comes at a cost. A cost that is fulfilled by the tax payers.

I am really happy that more people are opting away from the military. But they have altogether different reasons compared to me. Whatever the reason, the end result is that people are doing what they feel they can do best. Free markets have opened up more opportunities to choose from, for our youth.

As far as forced military is drafting, that is a possibility. But, the military will have to walk over my grave to get me to fight for the government. If someday, my society in general is under threat, just like we were during the Mughal Raj, I will be the first one to volunteer to fight the oppressors.
 
.

After reading the above post of Sumit, I remember a scene from film Fahrenheit 9/11 where a gentleman is asking the US Senators and Congressmen : “Sir, are you ready to get your son enrolled in US Army”? None of them replies!



Politicians send their kids to private school. If they are slightly decent students, they might even lend in the US or UK for higher education, all expenses paid.

But at the end of the day these children join their family business of looting and plundering the nation. So, I do not see any difference between Laloo Yadav and Harvard educated Rahul Gandhi. They both are thugs in the same business, at the end of the day.
 
How many of you know that 5 months before Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt ordered the US Navy to bomb Axis naval fleets. Japan was provoked. Pearl Harbor gave Roosevelt to go to war in a time when a majority of Americans wanted to stay out of it.




I will be posting the link to the research paper that I read in an Economic journal. Every nation in the history of Mankind, whether a Dictatorship, a Democratic Republic or a Monarchy has had an elite aristocratic class.

In a mercantilist society like the old Great Britain and the New America, the elite aristocracy runs an entire nation. They raise monstrously huge Armies that are funded by taxes pitched in by a hard working middle class. The Armies are also staffed by the children of the poor and the middle class, who are mere cannon fodder. The poor and the middle class are fooled into believing that it is patriotic to support the government's military adventures. Thus Great Britain's colonist wars were pulled off as successful scams for over 200 years. The same can be seen in terms of American military bases in over a 100 countries.

Once the colonization is over, the spoils of war are split among the governing elite aristocrats. Does Haliburton and numerous other oil companies ring a bell in your minds?

Now, do not say that India doesnt do any of this dirty business. But, if we increase our military spending we are definitely headed the same way Great Britain and America went.

How many of you think that America will be the world's superpower forever? I think it will cease to be the case the day Americans wake up and stop funding such foolish government endeavors or sending their children to be the cannon fodder.

By the way, I have a question for Chautala and CM Hooda? Why didn't they send their own children to serve in the military? Isnt it patriotic to serve the country? Why did they push their own children into Politics. CM Hooda went a step further by recalling his son from a decent private sector job in the US to make him the next MP of Rohtak.

Now, I know all the brown-noses and undercover subverts of both Political camps will throw dirt on me. Why not just stick to the real issues here.



I strongly believe that all nations altogether need to get rid of their military capabilities entirely. This includes India, Pakistan and ofcourse the "permanent 5 Gang" of the Security council.

Security from radical insurgents could be done privately. There are several companies in this business in Iraq. So far their record is much impressive than the US army. They have lost around 11 contractors in nearly 4 years. Not even one of the clients that they protect have been hurt. There is an immense market for private security, if the government gives up its monopoly in this domain. This market includes average ordinary citizens who are forced to rely on government alternatives because of the unfair monopoly that the government holds making it impossible for the markets to determine the fair price of private security.

Will the governments world over give up their standing Military capabilities? The answer is No. Because people like you will support this foolishness from cradle to grave and discredit people like me who want to propose alternatives; at any cost.

Can the governments world over be forced to give up their Military Capabilities? Yes. We must abstain from sending our children to the military. If the government imposes a draft. We must oppose the draft. We must try to find ways to hide our taxes so that we can run the government's treasury dry. We must not support the murder of another human being by another human being in uniform issued by the government and funded by our tax money.




We need a strong economy to improve our standard of living. We have a lot of important issues at hand that we need to think about like: female foeticide, dowry, rape and molestation of our girls, ample resources for our farmers, an unregulated market for their produce that gives them the best incentive and idea to decide what they need to grow in their next crop, improve the standard of education for our children etc. etc.

The government has failed at all these aspects. Every politician runs on a platform to resolve these issues, but for the past 60 years has only made it worse. Female children are being murdered, brides are being immolated over dowry, girls are being raped, and government provided education has been where it was when the British left.

And you are talking about our next generation to become the government's cannon fodder. Those who are spared of this abuse, according to you should boost our economy so that we can improve the quality of our cannon fodder.

Some say that there is no market for national defense. Yes! I agree with it. The reason is that markets are the barometers of efficiency. Markets accept what creates utility and markets reject what retards efficiency.

That is the reasons markets would never support huge standing armies. But markets will definitely provide solutions for private security. They will ensure that your women are safe from predators. Your children get the best education to achieve their goals. Markets will ensure that our farmers get the requisite resources as and when they need them. Markets will ensure the best price for their produce, and thus increasing the prosperity of the region that feeds an entire nation. I am talking about the bread basket of India: Haryana and Punjab.

I read threads about people suggesting that the government needs to set up ministries for immigration to assist our youth escape to the developed, and fairly economically free west.

Why cant we replicate the west's formula for prosperity in our own country and thus retain our precious and promising youth that can do the same wonders to our country that it can do to the west.

I am not talking about a total blanket on immigration. Free markets will decide what place is better for a person. A person who can contribute the best as a farmer would be a farmer. A person who can contribute the best as a software engineer will be a software engineer. And so on.

In another thread I picked on Deepender Hooda for picking on a state iisue that was beyong his legislation. But, people picked on me for picking on Deepender. They justified his error. Why?

Why are we so subservient towards the most inefficient parasites of all human beings? Kalkhande Sir! its all your fault. And it is the fault of people of your generation who told the people of my generation to respect authority.

Truly said: Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains.

I dont believe in it. I think that it is the moral responsibility of every human being to defy authority. We must respect only what is in our best interest. And it is always in our best interest to have the right to decide how we spend our wealth in order to maximize our welfare. Government alternatives do not allow us this right. Private alternatives do.

I do not want an India with long range missiles topped with nuclear warheads that will kill someone just like me, 10000 miles away. Someone whose only ambition in life is to improve it. To care and provide for his or her loved ones. Trust me, this is what most people in Pakistan think every morning they wake up.

Its easy to give high sounding moralistic lectures. I would advise that you take some serious lessons in history and see for yourself how imparactical your ideas are. Here are just two examples which will be sufficient to demolish your wishful thinking;

1. Tibet has always been a peceful country and had no army worth any name. Result is well known. Chinese came and took over the whole nation. Dalali Lama is cooling his heels ever since in Himachal Pradesh.

2. East India company raised private army to protect its business and result was the enslavement of whole India.

Business of national defence can never be handed over to some bunch of business people who use such armies to arm twist commen man to extract more and more profit.

RK^2
 
Because of socialist minded fascist people of your generation who ran India after our Independence, India lost 40 years.

The new generation has come to appreciate the power of free markets and capitalism. You can see the boom all around you. The world just cant seem to stop talking about India and China.

Bhai saab, I am also a part of same new generation, which believes in the power of capatalism and Free markets.
and you are true that results are good but I am sure that we should appreciate our old folks for not opting for free markets from the very start because if it had happened earlier then this then there would have been no tatas, no ambanis, no infosys, no satyams n no wipros and many more because the bigger companies would had eaten the indian economy n would never had allowed Indian enterprenures to grow.
 
Its easy to give high sounding moralistic lectures. I would advise that you take some serious lessons in history and see for yourself how imparactical your ideas are. Here are just two examples which will be sufficient to demolish your wishful thinking;

Unfortunately, you think that I am lecturing. I am just vigorously countering time-tested flawed reasoning.

1. Tibet has always been a peceful country and had no army worth any name. Result is well known. Chinese came and took over the whole nation. Dalali Lama is cooling his heels ever since in Himachal Pradesh.

An excellent example of the evil of huge standing Armies. This is just the reason no government in the world should have standing Armies.

2. East India company raised private army to protect its business and result was the enslavement of whole India.

Business of national defence can never be handed over to some bunch of business people who use such armies to arm twist commen man to extract more and more profit.

RK^2

East India Company was a mercantilist endevor fully supported and endorsed by the British crown.

Only a government-protected monopoly can arm twist into shelling out money.

In a free market, if there does exist a monopoly for natural reason, and it tries to arm twist people into shelling unnatural profits, it will create a space for more similar businesses to step in who will charge their customers fairly.
 
I am sure that we should appreciate our old folks for not opting for free markets from the very start because if it had happened earlier then this then there would have been no tatas, no ambanis, no infosys, no satyams n no wipros and many more because the bigger companies would had eaten the indian economy n would never had allowed Indian enterprenures to grow.

Big busniesses like Tatas, Birlas and Ambanis have done a lot of good for our economy, but have also hurt us once in a while by buying out government officials to get monopoly in certain markets or got their hands on Public assets for under book value.

I remember that when TATA bought VSNL from the govt, VSNL's cash reserves alone were higher than what TATA paid for the entire package. It was also the second higher bidder. The highest bidder was left out for some reason.

Big Businesses will learn to be honest in the absence of governemnt's control over the economy, and wont be able eat out smaller businesses.

Always remember that markets punish bad behavior and reqard good behavior.
 
Big Businesses will learn to be honest in the absence of governemnt's control over the economy, and wont be able eat out smaller businesses.

I am afraid but I am still skeptical about the bigger fish sparing the small one.
and I still feel that free markets and Reforms took place almost at the right time but would like to learn about your point of view as well.


Always remember that markets punish bad behavior and reqard good behavior.[/quote]

Point taken

 
I am afraid but I am still skeptical about the bigger fish sparing the small one.
and I still feel that free markets and Reforms took place almost at the right time but would like to learn about your point of view as well.



[/COLOR]

The common misconception about free markets is that bigger fish always eats the smaller fish.

The truth is that the efficient fish always eats away the inefficient fish.

In other words, in a free market the player who provides the best value for money to a consumer beats the player who provides lesser value for money to consumers. Which, I guess most of us would be totally fine with.

This behavior is what we all know is the rational human behavior. I first learnt about it from my mother. She would go for groceries every thursday. She would buy a dozen bananas for the best price after going around the entire sabzi-mandi. Now this doesnt mean that other vendors selling bananas would go out of business because my mother bought them from agiven vendor. Other people may not buy their dozen banana's from mymother's vendor. They may buy from another vendor even though he may charge an extra 2 rupess. But, they are willing to pay an extra 2 rupees because they value that vendors banana's more than my mother's vendor's bananas. Maybe they pay extra money to this vendor because they want to save time and do not want to go around the entire sabzi-mandi like my mother.

But, if some vendor is being snobbish and wants to charge 100 rupees a dozen when other vendors are selling on an average of 25 rupees a dozen. some people may still buy the 100 rupee/dozen bananas because they might see something different with those bananas. But, rationally speaking the vendor with exorbitant prices would be punished by the consumers who would buy cheaper banana's. If some good Samaritan in the market feels sorry for the vendor going out of business because of his exorbitant prices, he or she may volunteer to help him by buying all his banana's. But, in the long run, market will definitely punish bad businesses, and thus help bring about efficiency in the market in terms of optimum price and supply.

I am not lecturing anyone here. I do not want people to go out of their homes with placards and demand more market freedom. I just want people to be free-market-minded when they make their daily choices. I want people to think rationally, and not how the government wants you to think. Trust me, this is all I do. And, I believe that I am making an impact because I reward people and businesses who think like me and I avoid doing business with people and businesses who do not think like me. Spread the word around. Thats the only way a change can be brought around.
 
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