Education quality and Gender Equality

[sukhda]

effective implementation needed rather than loads of policies!!!

Hi all, you really think drafting policies without proper implementation can

ever avail results??? Being a law student, we have been made to go

through almost all the provisions laid down in our law texts related to

issues taken up here.

We have sound policies n laws for almost everything in India.....One of the

latest amendments in Indian Constitution has made education compulsory

for all children upto the age of 14. Also you all might be knowing bout the

mid-day meals scheme to boost up the strength of children in

schools......specifically in rural areas......it ended up in a real

disaster .......money n resources for such schemes are being consumed by

so called care takers of the system.

There r hell lot of negative instances which can be referred when things r

discussed in making the scenario better.....no use criticising the system

but to take some effective measures in terms of social awareness. Nothing

productive can be achieved unless people themselves start feeling for

such issues right from their hearts. Neither grants nor any other resources

of a kind can prove to be helpful.....rather a severe brain washing is to be

done in the remotest of the areas to achieve results.

With Regards
Sukhda

 

[raj_rathee]

So let us first understand the psychology and economics of girl’s education.

Sujata's key points:

----------------------------------------------------------

o Focus on the girls that do make it to middle school level.
Biggest bang for the buck.

o These girls are the ones who "want to" but often can't. We need
to turn the "can't" to the "can".

o Need motivation and career guidance.

o Make parents see the cost-benefit analysis of girls education
in favor of "education" as opposed to against it.

o Gender sensitive education and empowerment

o Establish education coaching centers to improve liklihood
of making it to better colleges.
------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously all excellent and practical observations.
My take on these:

Focus on the "paanchvi fails"
I think so too. Makes sense. Least effort and most gains are
here. And this segment is already in the schools. So again
focus on the schools is the key here as well which is in lines
with our overall objective in this thread.

Need Motivation and Career Guidance

I can't overemphasize the importance of this. It is a MUST.
Generating a few sparks in the young minds and creating a love
and desire to learn is *extremely* important.

Career guidance is *extremely* important too. There are soooooooooo
many options out there yet the students often don't know what is
out there. We grow up thinking that engineering and medicine
is the be all and all of education. The options have to be laid
out and the kids have to be exposed to what goes on and the opportunities
outside the villages.

To all this I will add some key skills that are a requirement for
any career: *language and presentation/personality skills*. There are a lot
of opportunities in the private sector. And these too skills
are a must in anything one takes on.

Incorporating them as part of the core academic curriculum becomes
necessary (requirement for public speaking via project presentations
etc.)

Gender Sensitive Education and Empowerment

Yes agreed. Now the question is how do we do that ? If the
government incorporates that in the overall curriculum then well and good
(eg. as part of the Haryana education board..or whatever it is called).
What if it doesn't? How would this be implemented at the "model"
village level.

Establish Education Coaching Centers

Again this seems to be a strictly government centric proposal. And
even then, I would find it very doubtful to ever get implemented.

Governments aren't in the business of establising and promoting
coaching centers. That is what the "schools" are for. If the
schools are doing their job I don't
see the need for such centers.

If you are suggesting that this be done at a private level, then
again I find this doubtful. It won't happen at any significant
level. It requires money. Who is going to pay ?

I think whatever suggestions that are made have to be somehow
tiable into the current education system.

So the question in my mind would be how to have the same
sort of outcome (dedicated career guidance and college level
coaching) WITHIN the established school system.

How do we do that ?

 

[raj_rathee]

Very practical suggestion Sujata Ji. Action taken will be reported in due course.

RK^2

Can you expand on this Chacha ?

 

[rkumar]

Can you expand on this Chacha ?

What I said was that the suggestion from Sujata ji is very practical and I will do my best to get it implemented through personal and collective efforts and also through government channels. Its very important that we focus our efforts on what is practical and achievable.

RK^2

 

[raj_rathee]

Hi all, you really think drafting policies without proper implementation can ever avail results???

Sukhda

First of all, thanks for your input. I was hoping for some
one from the legal field to pitch in. Your input can be
invaluable here.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Key Points made by Sukhda:

o Policies without implementation are useless.

o We already got all the right policies and laws inplace. Ground
implementation is missing.

o Corruption breaks down honest effort of govt. as in the meal
scheme.

o Progess can only happen if people themselves (the end
beneficiaries) are conscious and aware.
---------------------------------------------------------------

My comments:

o Policies Without Implementation are Useless
o We already got all the right policies and laws inplace. Ground
implementation is missing.

Can't agree more. And that is exactly the motivation behind
this thread and its narrowed down scope of focussing on a
model village "Harya".

If we can somehow see that an honest officer given the
charter to improve the education quality and gender equality within
a single village, CAN make it happen then we take it to a broader
level.

Implementation is the key in this regard. We know the policy level
issues. Question is how to get them implemented. How to beat the
system that so often prevents them from getting implemented ?

o Corruption breaks down honest effort of govt. as in the meal
scheme.
o Progess can only happen if people themselves (the end
beneficiaries) are conscious and aware.
This ties in to the above discussion as well.

We know that IMPLEMENTATION is the key.
We also know that leaving everything to the goverenment is a problem.
The corruption and the lack of accountability and personal
stakes in the successful outcomes is a killer. The best efforts
and ideas go nowhere in the face of that.

So now what ? What do we do to get past that ? And of course, in the
context of this thread, what do we do to make sure that any
proposals at "Harya" level *get faithfully implemented* ?
What do we do to make sure that the teachers perform ?
[Note that as part of the assumptions made here we can't willy nilly
fire them. A politician isn't going to do that !]

What I am trying to do here is again bring in what in my mind
is the key ingredient for any successful implementation in "Harya".
And that is how can parents and students *THEMSELVES* ensure that
they are getting the education that the governments wants them to.

Can we hold the teachers accountable to the parents and students ?
Should the students have a say in which teachers are good ? And Which
teachers aren't performing ? Can we have a system where the student
and parent feedback becomes the criterian as to the teacher's future ?
[In this way can we have a system whereby the politician creates
a system whereby he is free from fear of the "vote" factor and such
considerations...and let the end beneficiaries (along with help
and direction and guidance) run the system indirectly...as far as
the quality of education that they are getting ?]

If yes, how do we implement that ? Can it happen ? Is there anything
in our legal system than would prevent us doing that ?

At least can we try that in "Harya" as a trial ? Can we transfer out
all current teachers from "Harya" and let teachers opt in to teach
at "Harya" under this approach that students and parents will decide if
they get to stay ? And the good ones do get rewarded in some way ?

This way we aren't trying to overhaul the system but seeing the
effects our ideas at a single village level. Even a politician can take
this risk without alienating the "vote" bank of teachers and such
government employees. And perhaps some willing educators can be
assigned a lead role so that it would not seem that something is
being thrusted on them..rather it would seem that this is coming
from within the teaching community ?

 

[raj_rathee]

What I said was that the suggestion from Sujata ji is very practical and I will do my best to get it implemented through personal and collective efforts and also through government channels. Its very important that we focus our efforts on what is practical and achievable.

RK^2

Thanks Chacha. Good to see that you are following this thread.

 

[vinodks]

Chachaji,
I was wondering if you could help us in forwarding our message to D. Hooda. We can discuss this matter to detail and then finally draft a proposal/petition and more than hundred intellectual and sincere Jat of website can sign. If you could pass it on to D. Hooda along with out best wishes for his career, it will be great. I know he is already doing good job and he also has big think-tank which help him in making decision and they also ponder of future of "Harya". But if somehow we also get know what exactly they are doing, it will be awesome.

Vinod

What I said was that the suggestion from Sujata ji is very practical and I will do my best to get it implemented through personal and collective efforts and also through government channels. Its very important that we focus our efforts on what is practical and achievable.

RK^2

 

[vinodks]

Bottom-up

First of all, a request to everybody, plz be brief and simple in your posts(brevity+clarity is sexist thing in discussions).

Raj, so you want to discuss all the aspect that can make Hariya an ideal village. So purpose of discussion might be "to discuss and educate ourselve about rural problems, understand root-causes and develope clear insight of possible and efficient solution".

I don't want to comment on different forms of problems discussed by members becuz I more or less agree with everyone. Broadly we face 3 issues/problems

1) Actual problems: gender inequality, illiteracy(panchvi-fails), health, unemployment and poverty etc.

2) Man-made problems: These are causes of problem#(1). Corruption, attitude, apathy and adherence to out-dated social practices(like gender bias, caste system etc.)

3) Difficulty in implementation: People have ideas but it just doesn't translate into action. Corruption is big thing politics but sometime its just lack of vision and planning that causes problems. Even people in village discuss like us about development but they don't know how to begin on this "enterprise". And very importantly, lack of apolitical lobbying body that can pressure govt. to be transparent and follow the social policies drafted by professionals.

People mostly talk about probelms (1), (2). And I agree with all the ideas that has been put here. I am more worried about (3).

Raj, you r doing good work in following this thread. At the end kindly, make a consice compilation of ideas(I can help) and we can refine it.

You said you are not big fan of NGOs. Thousands of NGOs in India is doing work that is just out-of-scope of govt. To give a simple example, Ekal vidyalaya has made 1-teacher schools in 14,000(the no. says something) tribal villages in last 5 years. They plan to take this figure to 100,000 by 2010. Total number of tribal villages in India is around 125,000. That might not be good example in our case becuz we face different problem. And this kind of problem can be solved by forming of "apolitical lobbying agencies" which comprise of full-time worker along with vast network of sincere people like us. So our thoughts and refined opinions can have direct to "say" at ground level through lobbying channels. Issues that can be taken for just probelm (2) and (3). Like
-anti-corruption, tranparency, right of information, opinion building about politician through media, better network of working groups, better development models and a medium through which people like us can "WORK" in the way we can. Then (1) will be taken care of transparent and dedicated politician/beaurocrats. There are so many agencies like this in US. But it was just an idea, we are not gonna have such thing atleast in near future. BTW, such agencies fall under category "NGO".

What can be do? First, continue what we are doing now. And slightly shift the focus the problem (3). Though I would like to start a small effort(which we already started, I don;t have to mention it), a small network of people like us which make a team of thinkers, which might assume other roles in future. Anyway will add more later.

-vinod

My Comments:

Everybody knows what needs to be done :

Why attention on one village :

Need for Hooda's Assurance for Action
Personally I am not too great a fan of NGOs and volunteer
work etc as a means of making change. Just how many of
us here are REALLY likely to go out to the villages and
carry out these tasks. I don't think too many. Hence
I do not want to go in that direction of proposing that
we become foot soldiers. I know very well that I wouldn't.
Except for the once in a couple of years visit to a school
to meet the kids I wouldn't be able to do much else
at the ground level. So I want to stay realistic.

Yes when it comes to direct contribution we could
provide support in the form of guidance (career, academic,
written material ...etc...that I think we could do
on a volunteer basis.) and we would be open
to those suggestions as part of this discussion.

 

[raj_rathee]

What can be do? First, continue what we are doing now. And slightly shift the focus the problem (3). Though I would like to start a small effort(which we already started, I don;t have to mention it), a small network of people like us which make a team of thinkers, which might assume other roles in future. Anyway will add more later.

Vinod:

----------------------------------------------------------
Your points:

o Making Harya the idea village is the issue
o Implementation is the main issue...focus here
o You point out that NGOs can do good work
o Formation of "Apolitcal lobbying agencies" --> NGOs
which can tackle:
- corruption
- bring transparency
- right to information
- opinion building about politicians via media
- better social models etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------

My comments:

Making Harya the ideal village is the issue

For the purpose of this thread I just want to
focus on education and the girl child (which translates
to education for the most part. So focus is to ensure
QUALITY in education to both sexes.

If we could come up with something practical we could
look at Harya from other angles also..but not now.

Focus on Implementation

Yes. But implement what ? We need to say what we want to
implement and then define how it is going to be done
such that we *beat the system without trying to overhaul it.*

NGOs and Apolitical Lobbying Agencies

Vinod, your knowledge and understanding of NGOs is far
greater than mine. I made the statement in a general way since
many such organisations are black holes, and I have heard of a lot
of abuse of funds/donations etc. But that said, I'll defer to you
on this subject since you clearly know a lot more here.

You points about Apolitical lobbying agencies is well taken.

Additionally
Lets then come up with sugesstions about how to imrove the quality
of education...and get that implemented in Harya.

 

[raj_rathee]

Let me start of myself with something concrete that I have alluded to
serveral times before, and that is the subject of teachers. How do we
ensure they deliver ? In the first post here I pointed to the thread
"Who checks the checkers ?". I threw in some suggestions about parents and
children having a role and say.

Are there any other different opinions here ? [Remember that we need
realistic solutions that a politician will give the go ahead for. "Saalon
ko goli maar do" won't do.]

Lets come up with some suggestions for solutions and we'll
pick couple of promising ones and see what it takes to imlement them.

 

[rkumar]

Chachaji,
I was wondering if you could help us in forwarding our message to D. Hooda. We can discuss this matter to detail and then finally draft a proposal/petition and more than hundred intellectual and sincere Jat of website can sign. If you could pass it on to D. Hooda along with out best wishes for his career, it will be great. I know he is already doing good job and he also has big think-tank which help him in making decision and they also ponder of future of "Harya". But if somehow we also get know what exactly they are doing, it will be awesome.

Vinod

Mr Deepender Hooda is a member of Jatland. You can always send your views to him via email which is given in his profile. (dhooda@hotmail.com
, deepender@yahoo.com )

RK^2

 

[raj_rathee]

Lets wrap this up !

Iss thread par toh pura sunnata hai !

Dev Chacha, aap "thundering rains" ki baat kar rahe the
lekin mujhe toh yahan do boond paani bhi nazar nahin aa raha !

Well anyways, I am not surprised. It was expected.
Bhashan dene hon toh yahan bhagdhad macch jaati hai. Ko kaam ki baat
ho toh "Phissssssssss". But let me save my cynicism for some other time.

For now, I am wrapping up this thread. Thanks to the few folks that
provided their input. But without more meaningful participation,
this is not worth any sincere effort.

Things related to education and betterment of our females and our
society's treatment of them are very dear to me and I am sure that
there is gradual improvement going on in our
part of the world. Lets keep working towards that in any small
way we can.

In the meantime, may I please go back to my fun loving
ways and mauj masti on Jatland ? Please ? Pleaaaaaaaseeee?
Humare kucch uptight members ko aitraaz toh nahin hoga ?



Aur please, don't anyone now say "Honsla banaaye rakho..Akela
chalna seekho"...etc...Nahin toh mein sacch mucch hans doonga
ab.

 

[vinodks]

See Raj, I raised this point in very beginning, whats the purpose of discussion?... and I gathered it was to 'think and brain-storm' which happened to some extent... I will format a petition and post by tomorrow, which people can sign and we can email that to Deepender, even if there is no outcome it's good because it would add on the list of '100 ways in which things don't work'... but I don't understand what "kaam ki baat" you are talking about... I guess we were doing "baat ki baat"... What you aimed to attain in thread?... just heavy responses?... then you should have mentioned in the beginning that the purpose of thread is massive involvement of members and posts... sincere people responded the best they could... ab sabki baate khatam ho gayi to shanti(sanatta nahi) hai, joki achhi baat hai, kyunki shanti mein aadmi sochta hai...)

Vinod

Well anyways, I am not surprised. It was expected.
Bhashan dene hon toh yahan bhagdhad macch jaati hai. Ko kaam ki baat
ho toh "Phissssssssss". But let me save my cynicism for some other time.
.

 

[raj_rathee]

See Raj, I raised this point in very beginning, whats the purpose of discussion?...

Arre yaar Vinod 30+ posts ke baad bhi I am still trying to explain
the motivation and purpose...Looks like I did a horrendous job.

Anyways, I don't think there is much utility to the petition but
whatever. Jit gootha tekan ki kahvega udee tek denege.

 

[sukhda]

hogaye thande sab!!!!

Well it was very much expected......I am not complaining or something but thats what happens everytime with everything.......anyways.......as Raj

bhaisahab said "bhashan dene ho toh sab aage rehte hain" and when it comes to make efforts in the regard, the whole scene takes a never ending

twist

On the other hand, if being practical whats the use of discussing and discussing and discussing.......there is no end to such discussions.......everybody

knows that implementation and accountability factors are two forces which can change the scenario to a great extent.......for that we need a vibrant

civil society and efficient bureaucracy.......pata toh sabko sab kuch hai ........even Deepender must be knowing bout the loopholes in the

system......the question is that who's ready to go against the system to set the things right.......and is equally ready to face the consequences......I

know it sounds weird but everything that sounds weird initially is bound to achieve results if done with honest intentions and determination to make

things happen.

Wont write much further......kyonki bhashan dena bahut aasaan hota hai

Well, eachone for one ownself.......thats how things r working n wud continue to exist.....what all can be expected is that if ever any one of us get a

chance to do something .....we definitely wont miss it!!!!!! yo hi bhatera.

MAY GOD BLESS INDIA

REGARDS
SUKHDA

 

[devdahiya]

Aap To Alert Dikho So

Well it was very much expected......I am not complaining or something but thats what happens everytime with everything.......anyways.......as Raj

bhaisahab said "bhashan dene ho toh sab aage rehte hain" and when it comes to make efforts in the regard, the whole scene takes a never ending

twist

On the other hand, if being practical whats the use of discussing and discussing and discussing.......there is no end to such discussions.......everybody

knows that implementation and accountability factors are two forces which can change the scenario to a great extent.......for that we need a vibrant

civil society and efficient bureaucracy.......pata toh sabko sab kuch hai ........even Deepender must be knowing bout the loopholes in the

system......the question is that who's ready to go against the system to set the things right.......and is equally ready to face the consequences......I

know it sounds weird but everything that sounds weird initially is bound to achieve results if done with honest intentions and determination to make

things happen.

Wont write much further......kyonki bhashan dena bahut aasaan hota hai

Well, eachone for one ownself.......thats how things r working n wud continue to exist.....what all can be expected is that if ever any one of us get a

chance to do something .....we definitely wont miss it!!!!!! yo hi bhatera.

MAY GOD BLESS INDIA

REGARDS
SUKHDA

Sukhda ji, Pher iss ki bi kya jaroorat thi...i mean iss bhassan ki jo aapne pila diya puri janta ko. I fail to understand the mind set people have? this site is for discussion and not a Dunggal to show practical efficiencies. if you will not discuss things how the hell will you exchange ideas. I picked up so many good things from this very discussion [in this thread] please don't show your frustrations at every thing which is not as per your mental standards. This is outright negativity and a snobish attitude.

 

[sukhda]

With all due respect this is for Dahiya Uncle....... its not bout being

arrogant or havin a negative attitude.......ask people who tried taking a

step by starting this thread and finally backed out......You picked up

good things coz you were concerned infact everybody who was

concerned tried making an effort......n why people lost interest after a

while ???? eachone of us has his or her own reasons i guess.


Well i would like to share something here..........we have thousands of

compilations in the various libraries in India with such suggestions and

poilicies......how many of them have been brought into practice ..........if

somehow any ....how many of them have produced results??? I still stress

upon accountability and implementation factors coz i feel they r lacking to

an extent of creating unruly picture.

I agree this site is for discussion .......ask people why they didnt respond

to the queries instead of questioning n talking bout frustrations of people.

Dahiya uncle, looking forward to have more good n pragmatic suggestions

from your side i appreciate your concerns.......

I have tried not to sound negative in my approach ......n hope u wont

feel so this time too......

REGARDS
SUKHDA

Sukhda ji, Pher iss ki bi kya jaroorat thi...i mean iss bhassan ki jo aapne pila diya puri janta ko. I fail to understand the mind set people have? this site is for discussion and not a Dunggal to show practical efficiencies. if you will not discuss things how the hell will you exchange ideas. I picked up so many good things from this very discussion [in this thread] please don't show your frustrations at every thing which is not as per your mental standards. This is outright negativity and a snobish attitude.

 

[devdahiya]

If That Be So

Sukhda ji, nice to find a rejoinder from your side. thanx for more appropriate words.Libraries have done wonders for humanity. People studied in libraries and became scientists of repute,They constructed dams,they went to space, they won wars by learning about tactics...so on and so forth. A book, a word spoken, a line written or an idea conveyed through any means can change your life and the destiny of a nation or society. In that light i would like to say that whatever i studied through the years and whatever knowledge i gathered about the multi-faced life.....i did not use it instantly [the moment i heard a thing] but had been useing it over a period of time and mind you so many things are lying dorment inside because IDEAS wait OPPURTUNITY.Those learnings are my BANK and will help me in due life. By being a useful member of the society [not involving in anti-social activities ] we contribute in nation building. Point which i am making is that Any discuussion will be good if it enhances the knowledge of recipients. Hope you did not feel bad of my previous post? If yes Sorry is due. Thanks.

 

[sukhda]

Ram Ram Dahiya Uncle, I agree with every single word of yours......no

doubt Libraries act as real gold mines and pave the way for big

achievements.....again things become real slow when it comes to

IMPLEMENTATION .........and when ACCOUNTABILTY factor is missing,

things end up in total disaster.

Above all, I don have reasons to feel bad about your mail.....so question

of feeling sorry doesn't arise.......You are lot more experienced and

have seen the world in a much better way.......yet to learn a lot from

you.....I mean it!!!!!

REGARDS
SUKHDA

Sukhda ji, nice to find a rejoinder from your side. thanx for more appropriate words.Libraries have done wonders for humanity. People studied in libraries and became scientists of repute,They constructed dams,they went to space, they won wars by learning about tactics...so on and so forth. A book, a word spoken, a line written or an idea conveyed through any means can change your life and the destiny of a nation or society. In that light i would like to say that whatever i studied through the years and whatever knowledge i gathered about the multi-faced life.....i did not use it instantly [the moment i heard a thing] but had been useing it over a period of time and mind you so many things are lying dorment inside because IDEAS wait OPPURTUNITY.Those learnings are my BANK and will help me in due life. By being a useful member of the society [not involving in anti-social activities ] we contribute in nation building. Point which i am making is that Any discuussion will be good if it enhances the knowledge of recipients. Hope you did not feel bad of my previous post? If yes Sorry is due. Thanks.

 

[shokeen123]

Speaking for self...

Just because people have not responded as frequently and as vigorously does not mean lack of interest. These are very complex steps we are promulgating; implementation of any one of these is extremely difficult. Furthermore, people need some time to grasp the concepts because “in theory it is easy to practice but in practice it is not!” Why don’t we allow people sometime to ponder and let the information soak in? People who care will not be silent for long, they can’t, and it’s not in their nature to abandon the ship just like that? Besides, there are umpteen personal reasons for at least a few of us with grown up kids, and sorry to admit, at a critical juncture in their lives they come first! Please take it easy, the mission we are embarking on is not going to be accomplished overnight. Let’s not derail the process by adding frustrating comments, some that are not necessary at all. It is so easy to get discouraged, especially on matters of such importance we cannot afford getting carried away with adjectives. My needs analysis input is already in, I am not too sure about the feasibility of the implementation process, hence the frustration, that’s not to say I have not been dwelling on it.

Thanks for the understanding.