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spdeshwal

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किशोर दा का ये गीत
आ चल के तुझे में तुझे ले के चलूँ
एक ऐसे गगन के तले!
जहाँ गम भी ना हों , अंशु भी ना हो
बस प्यार ही प्यार पले !!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvtVoN_2efE&feature=PlayList&p=5CC78E86AE55B0A9&index=8


जब मेरा बेटा ४-५ साल का रहा होगा, अबोध कोतुहार भरे अंदाज में आग्रह करता था
पापा वही गाना लगाओ "दूर गगन के तले"

आज में अकेले बैठा फिर वही गीत सुन ,यादों के झरोंखे में झांक
सोच रहा हूँ , कहाँ है ऐसा जहाँ ? क्या वो सिर्फ कवी की कल्पना है या ऐसे जहाँ को जिवंत किया जा सकता है

मेरा मानना है की ४-५ साल की किशोर अवस्था से २०-२१ साल की अलमस्त जवानी के सफ़र में कितनी ही बार उसका मन टुटा होगा , कितनी बार वो गम के अँधेरे में फंस गया होगा !

एक भावः ये भी है की गम और पीडा ही प्यार और ख़ुशी का अहसास कराते हैं !
आप क्या समझते हैं इस विषय में, क्या "प्यार ही प्यार" जैसी परम सुख जैसी अनिभूति , केवल कल्पना मात्र है या यथार्थ में पाया भी जा सकता है?


सत्यपाल
 
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spdeshwal said:
"प्यार ही प्यार" जैसी परम सुख जैसी अनिभूति , केवल कल्पना मात्र है या यथार्थ में पाया भी जा सकता है?


सत्यपाल
Click to expand...


Pyaar hi pyaar milna aur paane ki apeksha rakhna bahut hi unrealistic sa lagta hai. Jab tak gam na ho to pyaar/khushi ka mahatv kya samajh ayega??
 
spdeshwal said:

आप क्या समझते हैं इस विषय में, क्या "प्यार ही प्यार" जैसी परम सुख जैसी अनिभूति , केवल कल्पना मात्र है या यथार्थ में पाया भी जा सकता है?
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सर, 'प्यार ही प्यार' तो दूर की बात आजकल अगर 'थोडा सा प्यार' ही मिल जाये किसी जगह वो ही बहुत है.... :)
कारण चाहे जी भी हो... पर कल्पना की बात ही है लगता है ऐसा जहान जहाँ बस 'प्यार ही प्यार' हो...
 
Expectations:

Dear Friends,

Love is some thing that I associate with "Giving". Whenever we expect any thing in return of what we give, then it becomes business.

Imagination of the poet in that song is good. We can practice in real life as well. The question is, when we talk about love, why do we always associate with in getting. Truely it is just opposite of it.

I would give another song sung by the same singer:

Jyoti se jyoti jagate chalo, prem ke ganga bahate chalo.
 
देशवाल जी नमस्कार.

"प्यार ही प्यार" जैसे परम सुख कि अनिभूति, आज सिर्फ केवल कल्पना मात्र हो कर ही रह गई है. ना तो वह लोग रहे, ना वो वक़्त रहा और ना ही वह एहसास. आज किसी को कहाँ इतनी फुर्सत जो इस प्यार की अनुभूति मात्र भी कर सकें.

... i can however sense that nostalgic feeling in your post, reminiscent of good old times where you are trying to associate yourself with many of your most enduring moments of life. as we move forward in this fast paced world we are just trying to reinforce those feelings by reminiscing about the past... the good old days, when life was very simple and thoughts like these were a reality. the wonderful thing about this type of feeling is that we often reenact them conversationally and with our body language in rich detail, remember them with such emotion and clarity as they carry us undoubtedly back to the moment in time we experienced them. this is very explicitly apparent in most of your posts, which i've observed in the past.

these feelings become preserved by a force field of associations that link directly to our happy thoughts of even today ! it's only oneway that we attribute to our own happiness, filters that preserve optimism and more... in my opinion these thoughts generally appear as references of selective remembering, with which an individual tries to shape his/her "authentic" past, which reflects in the present and influences future uncertainties... as i say this, i share all these feelings with you and can anticipate such feelings may be a decade or so later.

... my take nd my thoughts, excuse me if you find them absurd or going on totally different tangent.
 
Deshwal ji,

Wat i think is that u shuld not expect love from others..If you will make a habbit to give love to others and don't expect from others then you will reach in a state where meaning of ur life will be changed.you will be very happy in your life...at that stage if someone will give you love then you will be very happy to get some thing, which you aren't expecting from others...if someone is not giving you love in turn , that also is not going to upset you.

Pyar Hi pyar jaisi sukhad anubhooti tabhi prapt ho sakti hai jab aap pyar hi pyar dogey...na ki pyar hi pyar paaogey..
spdeshwal said:
किशोर दा का ये गीत
आ चल के तुझे में तुझे ले के चलूँ
एक ऐसे गगन के तले!
जहाँ गम भी ना हों , अंशु भी ना हो
बस प्यार ही प्यार पले !!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvtVoN_2efE&feature=PlayList&p=5CC78E86AE55B0A9&index=8


जब मेरा बेटा ४-५ साल का रहा होगा, अबोध कोतुहार भरे अंदाज में आग्रह करता था
पापा वही गाना लगाओ "दूर गगन के तले"

आज में अकेले बैठा फिर वही गीत सुन ,यादों के झरोंखे में झांक
सोच रहा हूँ , कहाँ है ऐसा जहाँ ? क्या वो सिर्फ कवी की कल्पना है या ऐसे जहाँ को जिवंत किया जा सकता है

मेरा मानना है की ४-५ साल की किशोर अवस्था से २०-२१ साल की अलमस्त जवानी के सफ़र में कितनी ही बार उसका मन टुटा होगा , कितनी बार वो गम के अँधेरे में फंस गया होगा !

एक भावः ये भी है की गम और पीडा ही प्यार और ख़ुशी का अहसास कराते हैं !
आप क्या समझते हैं इस विषय में, क्या "प्यार ही प्यार" जैसी परम सुख जैसी अनिभूति , केवल कल्पना मात्र है या यथार्थ में पाया भी जा सकता है?


सत्यपाल
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ऐसा सही मायने में तभी संभव है जब इंसान प्यार/ घृणा/ द्वेष/ मोह/ माया/ इच्छा / कामना आदि सांसारिक प्रवृत्यों से ऊपर उठ जाये. दुःख/पीडा की अनुभूति समाप्त हो जाये :)
 
Dear Sunita ji,

Agar Insaan pyar se uper uth gaya to PYAR HI PYAR sambhav hi nahi ho sakta.....:p
sunitahooda said:
ऐसा सही मायने में तभी संभव है जब इंसान प्यार/ घृणा/ द्वेष/ मोह/ माया/ इच्छा / कामना आदि सांसारिक प्रवृत्यों से ऊपर उठ जाये. दुःख/पीडा की अनुभूति समाप्त हो जाये :)
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सत्येंदर जी जब इंसान प्यार से उप्पर उठ जायेगा यानि अहम्(स्वयम ) से ऊपर उठ जायेगा तो सब से प्यार की अनुभूति प्राप्त होगी जो की अलौकिक होगी :)
satyenderdeswal said:
dear sunita ji,

agar insaan pyar se uper uth gaya to pyar hi pyar sambhav hi nahi ho sakta.....:p
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Pyar ki anubhooti nahi ji, wo to param sukh ki anubhooti hogi..
there is a difference between the "Pyar ki anubhooti" and "param sukh ki anubhooti":)
sunitahooda said:
सत्येंदर जी जब इंसान प्यार से उप्पर उठ जायेगा यानि अहम्(स्वयम ) से ऊपर उठ जायेगा तो सब से प्यार की अनुभूति प्राप्त होगी जो की अलौकिक होगी :)
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यहाँ प्यार की बात हो रही थी सुख की नहीं इस लिए....जहाँ तक अनुभूति की बात है वोह सबकी व्यक्तिगत पसंद होती है .... किसी को दुःख में भी परम सुख की अनुभूति हो सकती है किसी को सुख में भी ये अनुभूति नहीं होती ....ये व्यक्ति विशेष के दृष्टिकोण पर निर्भर करता है के वो किस अवस्था में क्या अनुभव करता है .... सकारात्मक दृष्टिकोण वाला व्यक्ति किसी बुराई में भी अच्छाई अनुभव कर सकता है और नकारत्मक दृष्टिकोण वाला इसके एक दम विपरीत अनुभव करेगा :)
satyenderdeswal said:
pyar ki anubhooti nahi ji, wo to param sukh ki anubhooti hogi..
There is a difference between the "pyar ki anubhooti" and "param sukh ki anubhooti":)
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सत्येंदर जी जब इंसान प्यार से उप्पर उठ जायेगा यानि अहम्(स्वयम ) से ऊपर उठ जायेगा तो सब से प्यार=Sukh की अनुभूति प्राप्त होगी जो की अलौकिक होगी
Mera matlab tha ki Pyar se uper uthkar sukh milta hai...Phir pyar naam ki cheese ya shabad ya bhavna samapt ho jaati hai " jo ki saansaarik hai"...You can call it as PREM in place of pyaar ....:)
sunitahooda said:
यहाँ प्यार की बात हो रही थी सुख की नहीं इस लिए....जहाँ तक अनुभूति की बात है वोह सबकी व्यक्तिगत पसंद होती है .... किसी को दुःख में भी परम सुख की अनुभूति हो सकती है किसी को सुख में भी ये अनुभूति नहीं होती ....ये व्यक्ति विशेष के दृष्टिकोण पर निर्भर करता है के वो किस अवस्था में क्या अनुभव करता है .... सकारात्मक दृष्टिकोण वाला व्यक्ति किसी बुराई में भी अच्छाई अनुभव कर सकता है और नकारत्मक दृष्टिकोण वाला इसके एक दम विपरीत अनुभव करेगा :)
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Prem aur pyaar mein koyi difference nahi hai...they are synonyms...i believe , unless you prove the difference:)
satyenderdeswal said:
सत्येंदर जी जब इंसान प्यार से उप्पर उठ जायेगा यानि अहम्(स्वयम ) से ऊपर उठ जायेगा तो सब से प्यार=Sukh की अनुभूति प्राप्त होगी जो की अलौकिक होगी
Mera matlab tha ki Pyar se uper uthkar sukh milta hai...Phir pyar naam ki cheese ya shabad ya bhavna samapt ho jaati hai " jo ki saansaarik hai"...You can call it as PREM in place of pyaar ....:)
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spdeshwal said:
बस प्यार ही प्यार पले !!

आज में अकेले बैठा फिर वही गीत सुन ,यादों के झरोंखे में झांक
सोच रहा हूँ , कहाँ है ऐसा जहाँ ? क्या वो सिर्फ कवी की कल्पना है या ऐसे जहाँ को जिवंत किया जा सकता है

मेरा मानना है की ४-५ साल की किशोर अवस्था से २०-२१ साल की अलमस्त जवानी के सफ़र में कितनी ही बार उसका मन टुटा होगा , कितनी बार वो गम के अँधेरे में फंस गया होगा !

एक भावः ये भी है की गम और पीडा ही प्यार और ख़ुशी का अहसास कराते हैं !
आप क्या समझते हैं इस विषय में, क्या "प्यार ही प्यार" जैसी परम सुख जैसी अनिभूति , केवल कल्पना मात्र है या यथार्थ में पाया भी जा सकता है?


सत्यपाल
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Let me first thank Deshwal Sir for bringing again a topic of sorts! Next , happy to see Brahm Sir back! :)

Let me present my take on this (though I start by apologising for any absurdness , immature content that you may find ! )!


Brahm's take ( and he to me sums up by excusing himself for being aymptotic to the topic ! ) probably lets out more of the author's self than the topic , I am sure he will give himself more time to come out with something more relevant to the topic ! ( This is from a critic , and i hope Brahm would not mind it ! )!

Deshwal's sir did not talk about such things existing in the past (at least I do not percieve so ! ) and which is true to me , becasue the imaginary world of "pyaar hi pyaar" did not exist , does not exist and will not exist! It is to me too abstract a thing to be reality! Only people with strength can weave such a world around themselves (and the way how it can be done is presented below! )!!


Love , pyaar , prem and similarly the other human feelings and emotions are not defined anywhere and it is something to be felt and different people may have different levels of the faculties to appreciate them!
This might substantiate my point:
अकथ कहानी प्रेम की कछु कही न जाए
गूंगे केरी सरकरा बैठे मुस्काये !!

Still let me try and convey what i feel! I am a big fan of theory of continuity , I believe all human emotions , feelings , events are best enjoyed/appreciated when they happen in an continuous fashion (slowly and smoothly will be the layman term for the same )! As Deshwal Sir put it , in life we have had experiences (good and bad) , and the crux lies in appreciating this and making sure these events (both good and bad) do not affect you a great deal ! In short , learn from them (because experiences shape up personality of individuals ) and move on , do not be too attached with the events ( I tried hard not to mention the word equanimity , but could not , yes , I believe in equanimity and with each day , the belief just gets stronger! :) )!

I agree with the concept of "giving" as mentioned by Tavathia Sir , i have tried (with my lil means of course) to appreciate this , the more we expect (expectations are not that bad , and are really important for keeping up the passion in any relationship ) , the more we are making ourselves exposed to hurt and pain! It is a bit difficult to practice but try following the axiom of unconditional love and support to people ( I am sure many of you would have had discussions on "unconditional love" being the true form of love )! Infact the lil experimenter in me have also tried to be unconditional and expectant alternately in relationships and observe how it goes. The unexpectant self is a bit confused/melancholic initially but morphs into a peaceful and satisfied being slowly but surely!
Please also remember that it (the unexpectant self) can also make you exposed to people's irrational behaviour of inflicting pain for nothing , so it is also not blissful to say the least!!

Now coming to can we really achieve or get closer to a state of bliss in which we feel as if there is only 'pyaar and pyaar' , yes it is doable , the inputs are peace , satisfaction , a balanced mind and approach to life! Peace like charity begins at home , have peace with yourself first , do not allow emotions(negative) like hate , dislike , arrogance , anger , prudence to enter into equation.

कबीर यहू घर प्रेम का , खला का घर नाहीं
सीश उतारे हाथि करि , सौ पैसे घर माहीं !!


Have the feeling of love , care , affection , gratitude to people who you love and who love you! Always be prepared to do and give more(Expect more from yourself!)! Life's experiences are something not to be geat deal concerned about but taken in stride for the learning curve!
Remember that you cannot change the perception of everyone in a short span of time and there will be people to ridicule (literally making a mockery of ) your behaviour and ways of working and that will always drive you to deviate from your path to peace and love! There in lies the test ! There in one must muster all courage to keep doing what he/she is best at (and that should be giving love and affection and more of it!) Also at the end of it , make sure you discount the happiness and love that you have given to others in your balance sheet records as well! That is a good and more correct measure of the love and affection that is "around" you! Do not be internally directed when analysing broad things like love , care and affection !
 
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Deswal ji,

I think this is one of the most imp thing that should be clear to every individual that what actually true love is and whether any such feeling exists or not in today's world ?

People have defined it nicely here and I would like to share my point of view ....

Over few years I have been wondering what this most talked about word "love" actually stands for !!
For me love is a sacred state where you donot expect anything in return rather you only believe in Giving !
For me If one is in a position to shower Unconditional love then only that person can give true love .... all other forms of love that people perceive in todays world are nothing but are just some or the other kinds of attraction or satisfying our own needs and urge in one way or the other.
Without going into the depths of it, I would like to give a very simple but noble example of a true love and that is Humanity :)
If we go as per the definition of Humanity then we will realise that people following humanism are in the most serene and selfless state of love.


Regards
Vineeta Kadian


spdeshwal said:
किशोर दा का ये गीत
आ चल के तुझे में तुझे ले के चलूँ
एक ऐसे गगन के तले!
जहाँ गम भी ना हों , अंशु भी ना हो
बस प्यार ही प्यार पले !!



जब मेरा बेटा ४-५ साल का रहा होगा, अबोध कोतुहार भरे अंदाज में आग्रह करता था
पापा वही गाना लगाओ "दूर गगन के तले"

आज में अकेले बैठा फिर वही गीत सुन ,यादों के झरोंखे में झांक
सोच रहा हूँ , कहाँ है ऐसा जहाँ ? क्या वो सिर्फ कवी की कल्पना है या ऐसे जहाँ को जिवंत किया जा सकता है

मेरा मानना है की ४-५ साल की किशोर अवस्था से २०-२१ साल की अलमस्त जवानी के सफ़र में कितनी ही बार उसका मन टुटा होगा , कितनी बार वो गम के अँधेरे में फंस गया होगा !

एक भावः ये भी है की गम और पीडा ही प्यार और ख़ुशी का अहसास कराते हैं !
आप क्या समझते हैं इस विषय में, क्या "प्यार ही प्यार" जैसी परम सुख जैसी अनिभूति , केवल कल्पना मात्र है या यथार्थ में पाया भी जा सकता है?


सत्यपाल
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vineetakadian said:
For me love is a sacred state where you donot expect anything in return rather you only believe in Giving !

I would like to give a very simple but noble example of a true love and that is Humanity :)
Click to expand...

Appreciable thoughts Vineeta! :)


As noted in my earlier post , one has to overcome the direction ( by default it is inwards ) , and has to make it work both ways (inward and outward ) for really appreciating any of human emotions like love , care and affection! :)


Your example of true love is amazing but I would like to propose to you that Humanity is in actuality not an example of true love , in a sense it is the higher form of love. If you believe in hierarchies , take the feeling of love as an parameter and as you go from the bottom to top , you vindicate personalities! Lets call the bottom most level as in love with oneself , the next levels can be crudely associated with love for parents , love for beloved , love for your friends , love for your known persons , and when you transcend the boundaries and move to humanity at large , there are a couple of phenomenon happening that you might wish to appreciate:
1) During the process of moving out from bottom to top , you have basically increased.
If you would at all like to quantify something as abstract as love , then quantitatively increment as you are involving a lot more number of people !
And qualitatively as well because now your feeling of love is not limited to yourself of people around you but to whole of humanity (In a sense a movement from selfish love to selfless love :))

2) Also the movemnet from bottom to top has reduced your levels of expectations and your attachment with the people you love! So your form of "giving" has become higher in quality as well! :)

3) As true with most things , experience fades the feeling of "shock/awee" , so more you love , more you keep getting natural about it and more will be possibility of really "giving" in the truest of the forms. We should not be considering the human feelings as limited , to me , the more we do and use , the more we get better at it! More and more you love more people and with more intensities , the better you will get at this art and your relationships would get more continous and fruitful. You will always feel sync with life! :)


To me , the endeavour of a person who wishes to appreciate true love should be to move upwards in this hierachy and see/define for oneself what love actually is! :)
 
Thanks everyone for participating and sharing your views here!
Everyone agrees and believes that love is the most blissful feeling one could experience but some of us disagree on the possibility of attainment of that state of mind!

I would start with what Sunita ji has said, “ positive attitude” and further the views of Colonel Tevathia ji, from merely giving to total commitment and surrender. Total surrender of false pride and ego!

Brahm Bhai, You have rightly observed about what was going through my mind. Although it was incidental that I stumbled upon that video and my reaction was spontaneous but got carried away to my blissful corner. Yes, am nostalgic about my past, my childhood, my loving immediate and extended family, my village and village folks.

Life was so simple! Day- to-day necessities were simple with minimum of greed and deception! But what to do? Could anyone stop the wheel of time?
But, I have this weakness to get carried away with simple situations. I get carried away and relate this situation to my self and to my little world.
I would think of those moments where I could provide every thing possible to my two kids where they don’t hurt any body and don’t get hurt by anybody! Because, sometimes I get worried about them as they are young. They are restless like the younger participants in this thread( Sunil and Sateynder)

Vineeta ji to experience true love you have to brush aside any doubt about its existence. To experience, you have to believe, to have positive attitude. Most impotent of all is, belief in self. You have' yourself written about unconditional love. Unconditional means no expectations in return, thus no disappointment and than there is no scope for any doubts!

अनिल जी आप की क्या बात करूँ !
आप तो एक परिपक्व दार्शनिक से कम नहीं !
कभी -२ लगता है आप आर्थिक विश्लेषक न हो कर भक्ति काल के बिछुडे हुए धर्म गुरु हैं !
आपके सारगर्भित लेख, इस विषय में आपकी रूचि और विश्वाश के धोतक हैं! यानिकी आप तो प्यारे हैं ही आपके आसपास भी प्यार का अथाह समुंदर है ! इसमें डुबकी लगाते और लगवाते रहिये !

स्नेही

सत्यपाल
 
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