Finish the word "OBC" from JAT Dictionary

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I agree with u sidharth that education should be taken out of goverments hands, but dear friend giving it in hands of private players in not the solution.If the whole power is given in thier hands they will surely expolite the system for thier own benefit. You may refer situtaion which arised when chatissgadh state has created numerious universities. Which lead to degradation of education and court has to intervene to close these universities.
Education cannot be made business. In my view education should be respolsibility of society. At grassroot level small groups should take care of education in thier locality instead of depending on goverement and private players.
In ancient india such system existed. There were gurukuls run by synasis and local people to support thier childerns education.

If a similar system can be started again then all the problems can be removed. There need not be any reservation as all the children will get equal opportunities irrespectuve of caste, social or finanancial situation of thier family.

What happened in Chhatis. is not normal, The government should not put regulations on these universities and make them tow their line - there will be bad universities - thats normal - people will know about them and not study there - the good ones will survive and the bad ones will be weeded out. There are bad universities in the US also - and really good ones too. If you let market forces prevail in education - you will get some really good universities - like Harvard, Stanford etc and really bad ones too. Let the people decide where they want to study. The Government has no experience what is good and what is bad but the market does.
 
Oh, Nadar, I do recollect now that already we discussed this issue with you. I requested you earlier that better concentrate on Harit Pradesh that is more advantageous to Jats of UP.

However, reservation is a reality. I do agree with you that basically it should be merit only. But here 90% people of India are either in reservation or support it. In votes democracy you have to live with majority untill you really dnt plan to leave country and live abroad.

I'd ve further appreciated your efforts if you could have made this point understood to 90% population, particularly Meenas, Gujjars, SC, ST, OBC etc. today. Remaining 10% oppose it because they know that will not get it. So, fox's Grapes are sour.
 
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Education is not a busniess which can be driven by market

What happened in Chhatis. is not normal, The government should not put regulations on these universities and make them tow their line - there will be bad universities - thats normal - people will know about them and not study there - the good ones will survive and the bad ones will be weeded out. There are bad universities in the US also - and really good ones too. If you let market forces prevail in education - you will get some really good universities - like Harvard, Stanford etc and really bad ones too. Let the people decide where they want to study. The Government has no experience what is good and what is bad but the market does.

That is one thing I wanted to highlight. Education cannot be made business. If it becomes business then people will be fooled. There are numerious marketing techniques to do so. And another thing even if this will create good universities or schools as you have said and people are not fooled ( they may become more intelegent over the time,but at present it doesn't seem so),education will be affordable only to those who have money. Education is basic right of every children irrespective of what family he was born in ( rich or poor).
By creating a system where the children who were fortunate enough to born in families who can afford good education are the only ones who get the education.What good can be achieved. How is this system better than the present reservation system. where the chance of the caste u born in decides the progress in life.
Whatever is happening is US may not be complete solution. We cannot look towards the US blindly and implement what they are doing.
 
OBC....not again

Nadar bhai....good to see that FEEL BAD by this word OBC.....Have you ever thought being human how Chamar feels when you call them Chamar kae... :)

Earth will be better place to live if THERE IS NO CASTE...ONLY CALIBER....

Politicians has to use some tool to attract people to get votes...sometime its HINDU muslim or some time its OBC......

So, what will you do about it....???

Take care.....
 
The issue is not reservation here but reservation to JATs. Come what may we will not be able to scrap the reservation system in India. We have to live with it and we have two choices - (1) come under reservation and take whatever benefit it offers -or- (2) Do NOT take the advantage and let people from some other caste eat the fruit.

My question is that when this reservation is going to be there, why not go with option 1 and enjoy it rather than saying that this is a bad thing. I feel JATs are the most backward of castes and they certainly fit the OBC criteria. How many JATs are there in any of the significant position in comparison to brahmins, migrated punjabis, and sikhs? If we could have done something on our own then we would have been far ahead from them. Despite of having fertile land in ample, we are far behind in the race now. Therefore we strongly need OBC status for all JATs and may be Scheduled Tribe too, if possible. Atleast 1 generation need to come out of villages and prepare the groundwork (good education, environment) for our next generation to thrive on and then we can say NO to any reservation.
 
Do U know how many (See Meena community in Rajasthan, they r richest in Rajasthan) ppl from reserrved categories are selected as Civil servants every year, their number is increasing as time passes. nd ur Jat lion are either giving them security or offering other services.
wat is harm if a Lion can become real Lion.
plz change ur defination of Lion...
In today's time real Lions are civil servants/Business icon..not Jats...

Plz think analytically not just like as Jats use to..mar denge katdenge..
this make no sense in today's time..
well doing jats can be kept in creamy layer..that will be better option.

OP Siwach




Dukh Reservation ka nahi-

Dukh is baat ka hai ki aaj JAT jo kabhi apni shaan pe zara si aanch par jan luta dete the aaj wo tinke bhar ke labh ke liye naam lutaane par tule hai.

If reservation is the only key for development then why not give reservation ao all on yearly bases one by one.

I can clearly forsee what's going to happen...but as I said no earlier "no weightage to a person who himself is nothing big".

I tell you one more thing
"Only JATs are having a golden opportunity to shine if they deny reservation. As none of the reserved caste in India had have the denial of the reservation. I m saying it because JATs have the calibre to do so. & they will do one day."
 
The Best Reply so Far!

Dear Siwach Bro,
Salutations to u!!

ur reply is bang to the target & argubly the best reply to the so called lions who r against Jat reservation!!

I wonder who'll enlight them that time has changed n we must change our stiff thinkin n get some versatility to it!!

Get out of the illusions n get in to the real world.....if everyone is taking benifit from this ill system why shouldnt we......remember, It wrong to be right in a wrong system!!

So in my thinkin, either The Whole reservation thing should be removed or we should get benifit in every possible way instead of showin false pride!!

Thanks again Siwach bro for ur thought provokin words!!

Rock on!
Jit


Do U know how many (See Meena community in Rajasthan, they r richest in Rajasthan) ppl from reserrved categories are selected as Civil servants every year, their number is increasing as time passes. nd ur Jat lion are either giving them security or offering other services.
wat is harm if a Lion can become real Lion.
plz change ur defination of Lion...
In today's time real Lions are civil servants/Business icon..not Jats...

Plz think analytically not just like as Jats use to..mar denge katdenge..
this make no sense in today's time..
well doing jats can be kept in creamy layer..that will be better option.

OP Siwach
 
Do U know how many (See Meena community in Rajasthan, they r richest in Rajasthan) ppl from reserrved categories are selected as Civil servants every year, their number is increasing as time passes. nd ur Jat lion are either giving them security or offering other services.
wat is harm if a Lion can become real Lion.
plz change ur defination of Lion...
In today's time real Lions are civil servants/Business icon..not Jats...

Plz think analytically not just like as Jats use to..mar denge katdenge..
this make no sense in today's time..
well doing jats can be kept in creamy layer..that will be better option.

OP Siwach

Bhai rajasthan me meena ke shuru se do bhago me the 1. Bheel Meena or Bhoomihar meena. Or Reservation diya gaya the bheel meenao ko parantoo rajniti ke chalte bhoomihar meena iska fayada utha rahe hai or bheel meena abhi bhee gareeb hai.

Rahi bas har IAS me meenao ke selec hone kee to bhai abhi bhee rajasthan jat IAS OBC ke karan kafi select hote hai abhi latest 20 me se 7 jat hai.

Rahi bat Jato ke OBC me ane kee to dosto jawani ka josh jyada acha nahi hota maine pahale bhee kaha tha reservation poora khatam kar do nahi to Jao ko OBC me ane pat appttee kyo? Agar jat OBC me nahi ate rajasthan me jato ka prabhutv kham ho jata or log inko sadko par peet te aap logo ne padishee khushhallee dekhi hai sampannta me sans lee hai sangarsh nahi kiya aap logo ne.

Aaaj bhee rajasthan me Sekhawati or Bharatpur, Ganganagar district ko chod diya jaye to jat abhee bhee pichda hooa hai any chast kee apeksha. Mai rajasthan ke har district me ghooma hooa hoo. jaipur se Nivayee, Choumuu,
fagi, bassi, duddu, jitne baroder par gaon sab mere dekhe hooe hai aaj bee siksha ke roop yar aarthik roop se inka koi vikas nahi hai jabkee jaipur se lagete ye gaon hai. Fir OBC kyo nahi.

Fir dosto OBC keval Nokari me ya sikha me fayada nahi deti balkee rajnitee or shashan me bhee prabhav latee hai, sarpancha se lekar wardmember or chairman tak, MLA se lekar MP tak se OBC ka fayda jato ne uthaya hai to kya harj hai.

Or bhai ye OBC jato ko bheek me to nahi mili rajasthan ke jato ne badi sooj boojh se panee strength ko ek manch par ekthaa ho kar lee hai. Or koi bhee kalank apne mate nahi liya. n koi bas jalee n koi rasta roka gyaa na koi jat mara badee sahni se sab kam hooa hai.

Or ab to Haryana me bhee awaaj uthne lagi hai or UP me to pahale hi mil gaya hai. Or UP me OBC hone ke karan UP ka Jat aaj Pilani Nagar Palika ka chairman hai.

netra....
 
Dear friends! by not supporting reservation for our community, we are doing same thing as was done by Jaichand to India. Reservation at present strategic need of time when all other communities having same socio-economic conditions are enjoying the fruits of reservation. Brahmins, Rajputs and vaisya's enjoyed undeclared reservation for 1000 years ( Due to Jati Pratha). We should not fight among ourselves. We need a united fight to attain our goal for whole community. Politician have succeeded in deviding Jats on the basis of stats i.e. UP Jats, Haryana Jats, MP Jats, Rajasthan Jat, & Punjabi Jats. Have you listen UP Yavad, Bihar Yadav or Brahmin. Yadav all over India are enjoying fruits of reservation. Why we should put up demand for Jats of particular state, demand must be for one and all JATs.
 
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There should be no reservation for anybody.
These reservations are in.......
1) All educational institutions where government has a say.(which is almost all of them)
2) All government jobs.

Well Sidchhikara sir, You are either not well informed or you are just trying to twist it in the direction where you seemingly presume to have an upper hand. The Manmohan Singh Government has already in the year 2004 (Which happens to be its first year of tenure) issued notifications for reservations in private sector bodies as well. And it will not be just a dream of the political masters, in the coming days to see this as a reality.

Reservation has always been an activity to encourage people come out of their fixes, which they have been living into since the development of society.

Let me not look into the situation of other castes or tribes, but jats. Jats have always been suppressed through out the north western India. Ahmed Shah Abdali and party started this in the modern history and the brahmins did it ways back. Jats as a tribe had always had an edge over others. We did not believe in the strongest force developed by Brahmins, the God, and so we always stood against them. Budhissm, Sikhhism, Jainism all are examples of our open challenge to the might of the so called God of Brahmins.

Alas, despite being so strong in resolve, we have never been able to converge at one point and act collectively, which gave others an edge over us, to kill us, our very identity. Aurangzeb, Ahmed Shah Abdali, and others assaulted the Jats the most. And if you have the slightest of impression from history, we were not killed or suppressed by Moughals; but by our own people who had prejudice among self!! Thakur badan Singh and CHuraman episode, all of us know what conspired and then Jats were suppressed.

So sire' in a country where we have always been living in a state of fragranced S*IT, it is not detrimental to get out of it, and with grace through ENCOURAGEMENT. This, which people here, i am not gonna name who, say is a decree of our status, is rather not a decree... Its rather getting out of that Sh*t which we have been living for ages and folling ourselves to be at the top of it.

So I strongly come in favor of a Jat reservation, not because other castes are getting benefited, but because we need to get out of the black hole we have been living in! And in a democratic country, its better to fight for your cause, than to succumb to the plans of political masters.

Here's the solution....
1) Government needs to get out of education all together - from elementary education to college. CBSE, NCERT, Haryana board, all regional boards should be immediately gotten rid of. Let schools teach what they want to teach. Private Colleges should not be forced to be affiliated to govt univ's and follow their sh*ty coursework - it is detrimental to any scope for research work - makes no sense.

Sir, Just imagine the state of your village, with no gram panchayat, and no pradhan! imagine your home, with no leader to tell right or wrong, imagine a road with no traffic signals, imagine a power station with no control on supply, imagine a hydro electric power station with no limits on production. A school without a Government intervention would be in no better a condition. How do you think you are gonna give a logical support to different education patterns at different places.

Let us see as an example, a very simple case. The education pattern in India and in the US is pretty different. A student who wish to go to the US for further studies need to go through a troublesome process which in inevitable so as to meet the expectations of the host institute. Do you want that troublesome process to exist within the country? Do you want a student to grill himself through troublesome exams every time one gets out of school and wants an entry in a college? This will create mayhem and nothing else.

2) There should not be any governmnet jobs available to anybody except defense and law enforcement (I wish there was some other way to do law enforcement - our courts and police are worst in the world - total mockery of democray - I like to call it cargo-cult democracy)

Great!! You seem to be a perfect reactionary! You don't even want the Government to carry a responsibility of the basic employment. OK, let us make an arrangement, let all of us know a way of law enforcement in the naxalite prone districts of country. where 16% of districts are full of reactionary forces like you, what could be a better way to get rid of them? Its easy to criticize than to act!!!

Discussing who should get reservations will not help anybody - this is just a weapon in the hands of evil government to keep people divided and take care of special interest groups. Even if you get reservations the government will f*ck you over in any other way. Government is BAD for you and you should try to sind ways to get them out of your life.

Yeah sure, the Government wants to and NEEDS to take care of special care groups, and we JATS are no better, we need special care, we have been living in a state of expat for ages, we have seen all trepid times, right from the start of Governance in the form of Turks till the modern Government. Albeit we don't accept it and are happy in the illusion that we are the KINGS!!! We are a SPECIAL CARE group and we need to converge and DEMAND STRONGLY for our care.

In May of this year came a movie, Apna Sapna Money Money, a dialog fits in. "jahan haq na mile, wahan loot sahi. Jahan sach na chale wahan jhooth sahi"

A serious appeal to all jat brothers and sisters, Please join hands to either get what is just or to snatch it!!!!! United we stand, divided we fall!!!

What gujjars did in Rajasthan is just a trailer of how harsh they could be, we need to learn it from them!!

Regards,

Sam.
 
reason for OBC quota

hi all,
In my opinion, the reason for putting Jat Community of Rajasthan, UP, Delhi was primary occupation of JATs that is agriculture. If we see the time of our grand-parents, they used to have lot of land. and at that time indian economy was dependent on agriculture. But now the time has changed, due to division of land, people in our age are getting a share of land which is not enough to live a good life.
Rajasthan land being not that good for agriculture, and delhi land being acquired by government jats in these states really needs reservation in jobs.

Haryana and Punjab still good for agriculture are not considered. but that should be revised soon becuase in our coming generation , few will be having one acre of land.

My dada had 40 acre of land, but now I will get only 1.5 acre. I can earn max of 15k annually from that land. so in a year my annual income would be 22.5k from agriculture.

gaon main kitni bhi zamin ho kise ko yeh nahi pta ki 10th k bad kon si stream dilwani chaeye unko bacho ko.
 
By Samranwa

So I strongly come in favor of a Jat reservation, not because other castes are getting benefited, but because we need to get out of the black hole we have been living in! And in a democratic country, its better to fight for your cause, than to succumb to the plans of political masters.
 
kasutram ji,

Aap bhi yeh hi kehna chahte hain kya? Jo maine kaha? to khul ke kahiye na!

Regards,

Sam.


By Samranwa

So I strongly come in favor of a Jat reservation, not because other castes are getting benefited, but because we need to get out of the black hole we have been living in! And in a democratic country, its better to fight for your cause, than to succumb to the plans of political masters.
 
ek tees see dil me uthti hai, ek dard jigar me hota hai, vo rat ko uth ke rote hain jub sara aalam sota hai. Jat ko samjhana koi assan kam nahin. ye Jat bada nasamajh hai. inhen chhoturam samjhata mar gaya., apna interest jan le. O, bhole Jat apna dusman pahchan le
 
How very truly said...

jat ka dushman aur koi nahi bas jat hai..

Jat jat ko maarta, yeh hi iska khot,
yeh saare mil jaayein to.. nahi iska jot..

But here I see very senior people (No offence to anyone) stating that me and my family are doing good, and so we don't need reservation.

Its wrong to be right in the wrong system!! Why don't we get together against the discrimination we face? And the only way out is to SNATCH it from the hands of people who have, because of their diplomacy, always ruled us, humare me phoot daal ke, hum pe raaj karte rahe log.....

Humko ikattha hona hi padega!!

Regards,

Sam.



ek tees see dil me uthti hai, ek dard jigar me hota hai, vo rat ko uth ke rote hain jub sara aalam sota hai. Jat ko samjhana koi assan kam nahin. ye Jat bada nasamajh hai. inhen chhoturam samjhata mar gaya., apna interest jan le. O, bhole Jat apna dusman pahchan le
 
Jat ka Jat dushman aur Jat ke sub dushman to hain hi. Is Jatland pe kuchh logic rather seudo-logic mere gale se neeche nahin uterte. Pata nahin kyon gumrah karte hain kuchh senior Jat log yahan pe apne hi young generation ko?
 
by Samranva

But here I see very senior people (No offence to anyone) stating that me and my family are doing good, and so we don't need reservation.

better they should understand that there are some poor and needy Jats also, who are not from their family. And reservation issue cries for these needy Jats. If your families dnt need it better keep coming in general category, who stops you from it? but why you stop other poor Jats by misguiding them?
 
Conclusions
thankful to you all my blood brothers for sharing your views if my words were desi, haryanvi or bit hard sometimes, please take them in right spirit with due regard to all of you, while thread continues I'll be bit busy for some days and would like to take leave. My conclusions from the above discussions are the following:

1. Many Jats lack awareness regarding their utmost needs and immediate priorities. OBC reservation is the fact which is most immediately obvious of these. It cries for instant action and no further wastage of time.

2. Some people on this site are not Jats but pretend to be Jats. They always try to misguide people here against the interests of Jats.

3. Some Jats here are either ignorant of the plight of rural Jats or unnecessarilly try be over-idealists and seudo-nationalists. Real india is not this geographical unit only but the majority of its population. Majority of population of India favours aarakshan.

4. Jats were not included in reserve category and with other non-reserved people they started singing to the tune of those people that reservation is no good to nation or even to the people who are getting reservation. Though these are open broad day lite facts to see how Meenas rose in 50 years. Why then Gujjars agitate? etc.

All such theories behind such seudo-logics is the frustration of non-reserved people to see some government jobs slipping out of their hands.

5. No doubt some Jats are really meritorious and well to do. They neither require reservation nor desire it. But they are over enthusiastic and sadly mistaken that all Jats are like them. Also they do not know what harm they are doing to his poor brother Jat in village by saying "NO TO RESERVATION". They always have option to be in general category if Jat comes in OBC but poor Jat does not have option to be in OBC if Jat remains in general category.

6. Jats have tendency of justice and equality and think too much of other castes etc. Its positive quality though but excess is bad.

7. Some Jats are too proudy. Though its also good but somewhere some practical angle should also be there.

8. Jats always have the tendency to take the lead like Hanuman. Which always costs them dearly. They forget that sometimes Bania attitude is also beneficial. Whether its reservationist group or non-reservationist group Jats come on the fore-front from both sides and fight among themselves while other beneficiary and non-beneficiary castes simply speak or infuse them or watch silently. This was seen recently in Delhi and around in anti-rservation stir 1-2 years back. Rajasthan Jats were at the fore front opposing reservation violently in early nineties.

9. They do not understand where exactly are lying their interests. They fail to realise that they are about 1% of India's population. Their support or opposition will hardly make some impact on reservation policy. They should better channelise their energy in finding their position in this caste reservation structure. So dnt support and dnt oppose better join in it as OBC.

10. Some Jats are over cautious of OBC tag over their caste. They should take lesson from Gujjar and Meenas. Jats have common hucca with them. And when they are happy in ST category why cant you tolerate just OBC. O bhai OBC kum se kum ST se to upper hai.

11. Jats are the most backward in non-reserved category. So these people were and will always be above them even without reservation. Other castes who are lower than Jats will again be over the Jats due to reservation. So Jat is fast sinking at the lowest bottom of sea with the passage of time. He is the worst sufferer due to reservation.

12. Jat is most forward in OBC. If he comes in OBC then he is best gainer in reservation.

13. Reservation ek voton ki rajniti hai ye kahne se kuchh nahin hota. Rajniti to sari hi voton ki hai and our constitution provides for that. In fact this vote rajniti of reservation favours Jat most. 70% of Indian population is OBC and Jat is at the top of this 70%. Ye rasta Jat ko PM ki taraf le jata hai.

14. Doosri taraf Jat 10-20% non-reserved category me sub se neeche hai. Is category ki baaki aur sub jatiyon ne Jat ko sadiyon se kuchla hai ab kaise chhod dengi. Halanki kuchla inho ne baki sub jatiyon ko bhi hai. Lekin vo to sub in se pind chhuda ke reservation le ke bhag nikli. Ek Jat hi atka rah gaya hai. To bhai Jat tu bhi bhaajj lle pawan nne dhar ke sir pe.

15. Jat ka reservation ko support karna aur oppose karna bheet me sir marne jaisa hai. Is se reservation pe koi asar nahin padta. Aur chup baithna sumunder me doobne jaisa hai where very fast he is sinking and heading towards bottom. To bhai ab haath paanw te marne hi padenge tairne ke liye.

16. Jat reservation ko ek ghar ka halwa samajh ke baat kar rahe hain.Ye Haryana ka Jat itne serious halat me bhi aise aintha baitha hai jaise Taayee thali me use halwa paros rahi ho. Ukk beta halwa kha le, na tayee me na khata is halwa ne.

Bhaiyo hum bhi aap jaise hi Jat hain abhi to aap log aise mana kar rahe hain jaise ghar ka halwa ho per jab aap log haan bhi kar doge to koi aap ko koi ye itni asaani se nahin dene wala. You have to fight for it. You have no other option. Sooner is better.


my best wishes
 
So many of my own relatives or far relatives had taken advantage of it. But it doesn't mean at all that I will support it.


It should be ended & It has to...

please spell the gotras of your relatives who have taken advantage of reservation? r u jat from UP??????????????????
 
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You win or vanish!

You win or vanish, ghissar-2 ke jina kis kaam ka! This can only be achieved only by "Burn the Bridges". No route to escape but fight to win or vanish.To me providing resevation is another bridge to escape from reality.

Dear Siddharth, I appreciate your enthusiasm and concern for the community and this write up is not certainly to counter your argument or to win the argument but to give strenth to your voice, just a different point of view.

All those who don't subscribe to your point of view are not traitors who you and your suppoters think that shouldn't be on this site. They are here for years and will remain. They are jats in soul and body. Only thing is they have different point of view. They feel for the community as strongly as you if not more.

Even I would support all those who oppose reservation. Bhai Jitender Hooda has qouted an example on another thread that shows how Yadav's are benifited from reservation. If they weren't in Backward class category, 50% of them wonn't get any seat. But same time we can argue that if there is no reservation at all that percentile may go down to 10% or whatever % is Yadavs all together.

To support my contention, I would like to mention about the progress made by lower castes migrants to smaller countries like Fiji, New Gini, Mauritius and Surinam , trinidad and Tobago etc. Mostly who migrated to those countries were laboureres from lower strata of society. I should say mostly SC"s. They are now 100 times better than their own people those who remained in India. They had no reservation, rather they had to combat against reservation to locals. In Fizi living and working for 125 years and mostly 5-6th generation have no land rights. They achieved everything against all odds because they had no route to escape. They had no money to go back.

Who got benifited with present reservation scenerio. I believe, only a section of a particular class. For example, only a section of chamars from SC and A section of Meenas in ST, who obviously shouldn't be in that class at all. What % of Sc are there from Balmikis or what % of STs are Santhal, Bhils or Mundas get selected in different state or central jobs? Percentage of those get benifited from lower level is negligible but only the creamy layer gets the benifit.

Finally, i would support the idea of creating infrastructure and facilities for all poor of every section of the society.In addition to that we can contribute as an individual. Col. Jagmohan used to say that we have to start from own example and I echo his sentiments .For the benefit of the members who have recently joined, Col Jagmohan is our distinguished member who moved from a luxurious life of Bombay to a Village in Haryana to help the rural kids. So, start helping atleast one needy relative or known rural child. Jatland par bhasanbaji se revolution nahi aata. The revolution starts from within.. from you from me and from every responsible member of the community.


Cheers!
 
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