For Pseudo-Secular Hindus and Modi baiters

[swaich]

Swaich, I think you need practical understanding more than theoritical facts. So to start with peaceful muslims I would suggest you to go to any of these countries like Syria,Pakistan,Afghanistan,Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, and many more. They all are predominantly muslim countries and I believe you that muslims living in those countries must be peaceful.

If you even dare to worship ur goddess n gods inside ur own house , the religious police will come and join ur peacefull because u r a extremist hindu and they are peaceful islamic.

Just because my opinions are different than yours, you think I am basic my opinions on theories alone?

Have you been to these countries that you ask me to visit?

FYI - many of these countries that you quoted, their govts do not force people to follow Islam only. Other religions are followed by many people. And NO police will come into your house and bust your idols.

 

[swaich]

I was expecting a reply to my very genuine and earnest question rather than a counter question?

How come the interpretation is wrong all across the world?

There are right and wrong interpretation all across the world.

 

[desijat]

Rathi ji,

While what you say is absolutely right but Hinduism has its evils too, please take a note:

With keeping all my wisdom aside I trust for a moment that interpretations are wrong across the world. Now few questions anybody can ask a muslim scholar across the globe whom they trust as true interpreter

1. The biggest sin according to Quran is "Shirk" meaning idol worship, and one who does that is the worst creature in eyes of Allah who will burn him in Hell irrespective of his deeds . So all the Hindus will be fried.

Even Arya Samaj preaches that, although not the burning part

2. The testimony of a woman in shariah court will be half credibile as that of male muslim as Allah thinks that women are half wiser and half trustworthy than man.

Historically we had Sati, and ask yourself does our society give woman equal rights?

3. The biggest duty of any muslim is to slay idol worshiper and force the fear of Allah in their hearts.

There is a division with in them too, like Barelvi and Devbandi. One believe in shrine worship other does not.

4. The men is allowed to marry as many as four wives , few tender boys , can keep cucubines and keep POW wives and they are allowed to do *** with them acc to Allah.

With conditions. By the way go back to history after independence, when Nehru and Ambedkar were trying to put forward Hindu Marriage Act RSS and BJP were opposing it and one of the point they had was that Hindus should be allowed to have more than 1 wife as according to them it is written in scripts.

5. Allah lives on 7th heaven and will come down to earth on final day of judgement till them all the lives living or dead since the creation of earth will wait for their judgement.

Dont we believe the same? Heaven and hell after death?



point being, every religion is as perfect as we make it. And Hinduism teaches you to be tolerant to others.

 

[rkumar]

Rathi ji,

While what you say is absolutely right but Hinduism has its evils too, QUOTE]

Agreed 100%. Many of these evils are the root cause of our downfall. Time came when many sections of Hindus lost their dignity and had no option but to convert to Islam. Its another matter that their lot remained same even after conversion. Hindu organizations won't loose a single opportunity to blame Christians for conversion, but have done precious little to work among Tribes to improve their lot. A Christian "Padri" can travel all the way from Netherland to "Chota Nagpur", but not our Brahmin and VHP priests. Christians went to interior of Africa and worked with Tribes under adverse conditions; sadly never our Hindu loud mouths.

Basically we are poor human material and I have no second thoughts in admitting that.

RK^2

 

[shekharjat]

still waiting somebody from secular cult to accept my offer to live in khalapaar in muzaffarnagar with female members of family..........
?????????

 

[prashantacmet]

Prashant -

1. Lets keep my religion and my knowledge of my religion out of it
2. 75 out of 100 are fanatics? I don't buy that. I have met enough Muslims uptill now to come to a conclusion that thats not the case and you are gravely mistaken.
3. I can bet in history more were killed in Hindus fighting Hindus, Christians fighting Christians than Muslims against any other religion.

..gal sunn...hun tu mainnu nu dass..tainnu keda analysis kitta si...zede lokka ki tu himayat karda firta si...ohi lokka ne punjab wich julm karya si ....

 

[desijat]

Last year when I was flying from Frankfurt to DC on a Lufthansa flight, I was listening to a bunch of young men in the ally of the aircraft(it ws an old 747 and there was no IFE so was looking for entertainment) and it turned out they were coming back from a remove village in Orissa. I got interested and joined the discussion. What I learned was a planned agenda, these guys who belonged to well-off families worked with churches in the west and had travelled to Orissa on the account of spreading hapinnes, education and mediciines with a hidden agenda of conversion, of course. Irony is, most of these conversions take place in belts of non-congress governments like Chattisgarh, Orissa and Jharkand(sorry for the politics but a fair observation) but reason is extreme poverty and negligence by states.

Rathi ji,

While what you say is absolutely right but Hinduism has its evils too, QUOTE]

Agreed 100%. Many of these evils are the root cause of our downfall. Time came when many sections of Hindus lost their dignity and had no option but to convert to Islam. Its another matter that their lot remained same even after conversion. Hindu organizations won't loose a single opportunity to blame Christians for conversion, but have done precious little to work among Tribes to improve their lot. A Christian "Padri" can travel all the way from Netherland to "Chota Nagpur", but not our Brahmin and VHP priests. Christians went to interior of Africa and worked with Tribes under adverse conditions; sadly never our Hindu loud mouths.

Basically we are poor human material and I have no second thoughts in admitting that.

RK^2

 

[abhikrana]

Totally agree that there are right and wrong interpretations all across the world.

But the question still remains why is the Holy Quran being interpreted wrongly across the globe from New York to Australia, from London and Paris to India, from Chechnya to Uighurs of China, from Bosnia Herzegovinia to Indonesia,etc, etc?

There are right and wrong interpretation all across the world.

 

[rkumar]

Prashant -

3. I can bet in history more were killed in Hindus fighting Hindus, Christians fighting Christians than Muslims against any other religion.

I will agree with Christians fighting Christians because of WWI and WWII and other wars in Europe. However I am a bit astonished about other two. Will you please educate us about the number of people killed by Hindus. Ever heard of Genghis Khan , Taimur and other Muslim invaders who butchered locals in thousands ? Did Hindus burn any library in entire human history? Did Hindus convert people by force? Did Hindus bring slaves after any war and sold men and women?

RK^2

 

[abhikrana]

I guess not. For the secularists, it's much safer to take their (Beecharas') side in/on the virtual world.

still waiting somebody from secular cult to accept my offer to live in khalapaar in muzaffarnagar with female members of family..........
?????????

 

[rathiji]

Just because my opinions are different than yours, you think I am basic my opinions on theories alone?

Have you been to these countries that you ask me to visit?

FYI - many of these countries that you quoted, their govts do not force people to follow Islam only. Other religions are followed by many people. And NO police will come into your house and bust your idols.

No my dear friend you are entitled to differ. It's ur right. I said those things on basis of harsh reality. I can quote many facts about Islamic countries without even going there with help of neutral international agencies and testimony of non Islamic people living there. But before I do that here is a food for thought . Lets begin from reading about MUTAWEEN.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutaween

 

[rathiji]

Prashant -

1. Lets keep my religion and my knowledge of my religion out of it
2. 75 out of 100 are fanatics? I don't buy that. I have met enough Muslims uptill now to come to a conclusion that thats not the case and you are gravely mistaken.
3. I can bet in history more were killed in Hindus fighting Hindus, Christians fighting Christians than Muslims against any other religion.

Request you to bring some facts before doing the bet.

FYI : I believe you must be knowing about Sahibzada Zorawar Singh & Sahibzada Fateh Singh.

 

[abhikrana]

I would tend to differ here.

In Afghanistan, we all know what happened to the Bamiyan statues of Lord Budha. How ladies were shot with the AK 47 in full public view almost as a sport, how music, sports and education to girls was banned as it was against their faith. How the Hindus and Sikhs still PAY Jiziya (Protection money).

In Iran there is a religious police which patrols the streets discreetly, though the punishment is swift and harsh in case anyone is found going against Islamic laws.

In Iraq Christians are being forced to flee the country of their forefathers.

In Pakistan, we all know how easy it is to put the blame on non-muslims of disrespect to the prophet which is legally considered as blasphemy punishable with death. One false allegation and before the police comes and takes that person into custody, your peaceful people hand out instant justice by lynching the non-muslim.

I hope you do not need any further examples which I am more than confident that there are. In case you do, please dig a little deeper into your google and wikipedia.

Govt. action against non-muslims might not just be direct. It might be indirect by putting so many restrictions that the person either is a second class citizen or over generations his family converts to Islam or finally leaves the country for good.

Just because my opinions are different than yours, you think I am basic my opinions on theories alone?

Have you been to these countries that you ask me to visit?

FYI - many of these countries that you quoted, their govts do not force people to follow Islam only. Other religions are followed by many people. And NO police will come into your house and bust your idols.

 

[prashantacmet]

Mr. swaich..either you are a secularist of same potential as gandhi was or you are a muslim itself....after gandhi i am seeing the utmost intensity of secularism inside you...... Gandhi ..who pushed entire India into burning fire just to keep his stubbornness. Like you he was the protector of muslims! oops seculars....do you have any figure how many other religion people were killed by muslims in "jinnah's direct action" ..do you know something about noakhlii in bengal..if you truely belively in stats..for god sake..analyse these stats too apart from Modi ...

 

[swaich]

..gal sunn...hun tu mainnu nu dass..tainnu keda analysis kitta si...zede lokka ki tu himayat karda firta si...ohi lokka ne punjab wich julm karya si ....

Lai sun fer...Jihna ne mere purvajan da history ch bura kita, ohna da badla mere purvajan ne ya Rabb ne liya...main kyun uhni di current generation nu marha akha?

Main lokan nu generalize ni karda. Marhe bande har ik community vich hunde aa. Tu ik passe tan kehna ain media Jattan nu generalize kardi hai. Sirf honour kilings etc di gallan karke badnaam kardi aa. Te ik passe tu aap hu sare muslamana tu generalize karda ain..Ki eh sahi aa?


P.S. I hope that wasn't just an attempt to check my Punjabi.

 

[rathiji]

Dear Desijat,

Thanks for acknowledgement that what I told about Islam was true. Now I can see you still trying to defend that by saying about evils of Hinduism , which will not stand even for a second. So here I go

Even Arya Samaj preaches that, although not the burning part

Pandit Mahendra Pal Arya , a renowned scholar of Arya Samaj trying to explain some facts about Islam and Arya Samaj. Please take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl5Mhl9Axjs

PS: saying that my religion is best is Okay but asking to kill people of other faith, no difference for u ?

Historically we had Sati, and ask yourself does our society give woman equal rights?

Historically is the keyword here. Did you know historically people use to eat raw flesh but they leaned n moved on . Sati was a bad practice in Hindusim which got abolished in 1829 , two centuries ago and more interestingly by reformers from our religion only like Raja ram mohan roy.

There is a division with in them too, like Barelvi and Devbandi. One believe in shrine worship other does not.

Who cares about Barelvi or deobandi. They have their own practices and millions of Hindus have their own. Who are they to slay or insult or criticise Idol worshipper.

With conditions. By the way go back to history after independence, when Nehru and Ambedkar were trying to put forward Hindu Marriage Act RSS and BJP were opposing it and one of the point they had was that Hindus should be allowed to have more than 1 wife as according to them it is written in scripts.

Why their r condition even in place ? If govt allow us to steal,rape,murder or any other crime with some conditions ? Now you urself decide that when RSS & BJP opposed for amendment in Hindu marriage act by giving testimonies of Hindu scriptures, even being majority Hindu's en-masse did not oppose or cry foul for it. They dint bomb anyone or become terrorists. This is hindu's definition. wisdom always prevails we can question our sacred scriptures.

Dont we believe the same? Heaven and hell after death?

I dont know about all but I believe in that. In a nutshell, I am a fraction of Parmatma and in the end will there. He will not come to my land and hold a panchayat for my fate.


You can never compare apple with oranges that's the biggest sin you gonna make.

 

[swaich]

Totally agree that there are right and wrong interpretations all across the world.

But the question still remains why is the Holy Quran being interpreted wrongly across the globe from New York to Australia, from London and Paris to India, from Chechnya to Uighurs of China, from Bosnia Herzegovinia to Indonesia,etc, etc?

A fair question. Now I would request you to read with an unbiased mind. Do you think Quran is the only one which has been wrongly interpreted?

Do you know how many Christians were burnt by the clergy for being witches and heretics? Do you know why the Christians of Europe launched the Crusades in far away Holy Lands aka current day Israel/Palestine? Do you know how Christian missionaries justified the slave trade and forced conversions of natives in Africa, Asia and Latin America?

Yes, that was all justified and supported by the so called interpretations of the Bible.

Even the Khalistani militants justified killing Hindu merchants and other innocents as a part of their fight against Khalsa's enemies as mentioned in the Guru Granth Sahib.

So, the point here is that since ages, some people have tried to convince others of their own beliefs and views by taking support from their holy books. This is nothing new. It has always been people of some religion or the other trying to justify their own actions or thoughts by quoting their religion. If I wish to wage war on Hindus or India in general, like in those videos I will find a couplet or a verse from Quran to support my theory. On the other hand, if I wish to live in peace, I will find a verse that justifies my actions.

My sole criteria for not condemning Islam as some lunacy is that I see more peaceful followers than violent, evil ones. I have the good fortune of closely interacting with many classmates, colleagues and friends who have really widened my perspectives of Islam and the society we live in.

 

[swaich]

I will agree with Christians fighting Christians because of WWI and WWII and other wars in Europe. However I am a bit astonished about other two. Will you please educate us about the number of people killed by Hindus. Ever heard of Genghis Khan , Taimur and other Muslim invaders who butchered locals in thousands ? Did Hindus burn any library in entire human history? Did Hindus convert people by force? Did Hindus bring slaves after any war and sold men and women?

RK^2

The point was about killings or deaths. Did we not have any wars in India before the arrival of Islam? Did Hindu kingdoms not fight with each other for land, wealth etc? Ashoka was a Hindu when he killed a million in Kalinga, wasn't he? What about the fate worse than death for generations upon generations of Shudras?

So, the point here is that only 'foreign' religions haven't been the cause of deaths and destruction in India or elsewhere. There's a saying in Punjabi - "Kade apni peerhi thalle vi sotta maar ke vekho", translated as 'Sometimes its wise to broom the dirt under our own chairs'

 

[desijat]

Rathi ji,

You took me wrong, i said evils are everywhere. We should look with in before blaming and correcting others and this by the way is soul of hinduism. If you also start to blame others and insult, you are being no different than them

बुरा जो देखन मैं चला बुरा मिला न कोए
जो देखा आप को मुझसे बुरा न कोए

Dear Desijat,

Thanks for acknowledgement that what I told about Islam was true. Now I can see you still trying to defend that by saying about evils of Hinduism , which will not stand even for a second. So here I go



Pandit Mahendra Pal Arya , a renowned scholar of Arya Samaj trying to explain some facts about Islam and Arya Samaj. Please take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl5Mhl9Axjs
.....nges that's the biggest sin you gonna make.

 

[rkumar]

Rathi ji,

You took me wrong, i said evils are everywhere. We should look with in before blaming and correcting others and this by the way is soul of hinduism. If you also start to blame others and insult, you are being no different than them

बुरा जो देखन मैं चला बुरा मिला न कोए
जो देखा आप को मुझसे बुरा न कोए

Sounds great in spiritual world, but stupidity of the highest order in matters of statecraft. Words of wisdom rarely stopped a war in human history. Even Lord Rama, Lord Krishna could not stop war. Only strength helps. Words of Chanakya become more useful than of Kabir. Conclusion is simple. No wisdom has universal application. This is why some wise person had to say; " Laaton ke bhoot baatn se nahi maante".

RK^2