Foreign Invasions on India in Medieval Times - Causes, Events and their Impact

[sahij]

Yeh sab aap isliye kar rahe hain kyonki aapki kai baatein udharan de kar palat di gayi thhi.

Well apart from being generously rewarded for putting forth my arguments, I was awarded infraction points even for my signature, this doesn't happen even on Pakistani forums. And that too for a quote from Gita, may be I would have been better served if I had quoted some verse from Quran regarding treatment to be met out to kafirs.



Anyway to return back to the discussion (that is assuming this reply sees light of the day),


In 1989, in West Bengal a circular (Dated 28/04/1989, Syl/89/1) was issued by the Government regarding Class IX textbooks. The circular issued amendments to the existing ashuddho history books to be incorporated into textbooks in subsequent editions, and as corrigendum for already published books. The suggested amendments have been reproduced here for the perusal of members,

Bharat Katha, by Burdwan Education Society

[TABLE="class: grid, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]Page[/TD]
[TD]Ashuddho[/TD]
[TD]Shuddho[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]140[/TD]
[TD]'In Sindhudesh the Arabs did not describe Hindus as Kafir. They had banned cow-slaughter.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete, "They had banned cow-slaughter.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]141[/TD]
[TD]'Fourthly, using force to destroy Hindu temples was also an expression of aggression. Fifthly, forcibly marrying Hindu women and converting them to Islam before marriage was another way to propagate the fundamentalism of the ulema.'[/TD]
[TD]though the ashuddho column reproduces the sentences only from 'Fourthly ...,' the Board directs that the entire matter from 'Secondly ... to ulema' be deleted.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]141[/TD]
[TD]'The logical, philosophical, materialist, Mutazilla disappeared. On the one hand, the fundamentalist thinking based on the Quran and the hadis....'[/TD]
[TD]Delete, 'On the one hand, the fundamentalist thinking based on the Quran and the hadis[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



Bharatvarsher Itihash published by Chakravarty and Son

[TABLE="class: grid, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]89[/TD]
[TD]'Sultan Mahmud used force for widespread murder, loot, destruction and conversion.'[/TD]
[TD]'There was widespread loot and destruction by Mahmud.'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]89[/TD]
[TD]'He looted valuables worth 2 crore dirham from the Somanth temple and used the Shivling as a step leading up to the masjid in Ghazni.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete, 'and used the Shivling as a step leading up to the masjid in Ghazni.'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]112[/TD]
[TD]'Hindu-Muslim relations of the medieval ages constitute a very sensitive issue. The non-believers had to embrace Islam or death.'[/TD]
[TD]All matter to be deleted.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]113[/TD]
[TD]'According to Islamic law non-Muslims will have to choose between death and Islam. Only the Hanafis allow non-Muslims to pay jaziya in exchange for their lives.'[/TD]
[TD]Rewrite this as follows: 'By paying jaziya to Alauddin Khalji, Hindus could lead normal lives.' Moreover, all the subsequent sentences 'Qazi ....', 'Taimur's arrival in India....' to be deleted.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]113[/TD]
[TD]'Mahmud was a believer in the rule of Islam whose core was "Either Islam or death".'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



Bharat Itihash by Narmada Publishers

[TABLE="class: grid, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]181[/TD]
[TD]'To prevent Hindu women from being seen by Muslims, they were directed to remain indoors.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



Itihasher Kahini published by B.B. Kumar

[TABLE="class: grid, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]132[/TD]
[TD]'According to Todd [the famous chronicler of Rajasthan annals] the purpose behind Alauddin's Chittor expedition was to secure Rana Rattan Singh's beautiful wife, Padmini'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]154[/TD]
[TD]'As dictated by Islam, there were three options for non-Muslims: get yourself converted to Islam, pay jaziya; accept death. In an Islamic State non-Muslims had to accept one of these three options.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]161[/TD]
[TD]'The early Sultans were eager to expand the sway of Islam by forcibly converting Hindus into Islam.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



Bharater Itihash, Sreedhar Prakashani

[TABLE="class: grid, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]117[/TD]
[TD]'There is an account that Alauddin attacked the capital of Mewar, Chittorgarh, to get Padmini, the beautiful wife of Rana Rattan Singh''[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]139[/TD]
[TD]'There was a sense of aristocratic superiority in the purdah system. That is why upper-class Hindus adopted this from upper-class Muslims. Another opinion has it that purdah came into practice to save Hindu women from Muslims. Most probably, purdah came into vogue because of both factors.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



Swadesh O Shobhyota, Abhinav Prakashan

[TABLE="class: grid, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]126[/TD]
[TD]'Some people believe that Alauddin's Mewar expedition was to get hold of Padmini, the wife of Rana Rattan Singh.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]145[/TD]
[TD]'Apart from this, because Islam used extreme, inhuman means to establish itself in India, this became an obstacle for the coming together of Indian and Islamic cultures.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



Bharat Katha, Bulbul Prakashan

[TABLE="class: grid, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]'Muslims used to take recourse to torture and inhuman means to force their religious beliefs and practices on Indians.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]'The liberal, humane elements in Islam held out hope for oppressed Hindus.'[/TD]
[TD]The entire paragraph beginning with 'the caste system among Hindus.... was attacked' is to be deleted. Instead write, 'There was no place for casteism in Islam. Understandably, the influence of Islam created an awakening among Hindus against caste discrimination. Lower caste oppressed Hindus embraces Islam.'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]77[/TD]
[TD]'His main task was to oppress non-believers, especially Hindus.[/TD]
[TD]This and preceding sentence to be deleted.[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



Bharater Itihash, published by Prantik

[TABLE="class: grid, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]102[/TD]
[TD]'There is an account of Alauddin attacked Chittor to get the beautiful wife of Rana Rattan Singh, Padmini.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]164[/TD]
[TD]'It was his commitment to Islam which made him a fundamentalist.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]





Bharat Kahini, published by A.K. Sarkar and Co.

[TABLE="class: grid, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]130[/TD]
[TD]'That is why he adopted the policy of converting Hindus to Islam - so as to increase the number of Muslims. Those Hindus who refused to discard the religion were indiscriminately massacred by him or his generals.'[/TD]
[TD]Delete[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]




All the above has been quoted from the book Eminent Historians by Arun Shourie.

 

[ravichaudhary]

In 1989, in West Bengal a circular (Dated 28/04/1989, Syl/89/1) was issued by the Government regarding Class IX textbooks. The circular issued amendments to the existing ashuddho history books to be incorporated into textbooks in subsequent editions, and as corrigendum for already published books. The suggested amendments have been reproduced here for the perusal of members,
>[/TABLE]




Sahij

If I may,

Some thoughts for you to consider.

What you have posted , is in essence "secondary data".

The question will arise to a good researcher, what is the reliability of it.

Thus , were the text books correct to depict "Islam in a poor light" in the first place.

Mr. V. Dhillon, quotes the Islamic writer Badauni , in his post, #, 149 from Islamic sources,

That would be a primary source .( unless the translation is wrong)

Are there any comparable sources for Mr. Shourie's quotes?

 

[sahij]

<wbr>What you have posted , is in essence "secondary data".

The question will arise to a good researcher, what is the reliability of it.

Sir, whether something can be called "secondary data" or "primary data", is essentially dependent upon the use data is being put to. My whole point in my last post was that history books have been changed by Government intervention. And probably, it can be also said they have been changed based on Government dispensation. I didn't claim that the original text, which was amended as a result of this circular, was in pristine condition or even correct. That said, however, at a glance, the amendments do seem to be favoring a particular view of history, and do seem to be aimed at projecting Islam/Muslims in better light, irrespective of whether they were depicted in "poor light" - to use your words - earlier or not.

So while the text above might not be "primary data" if we are trying to extract history from it, but if instead we are trying to find out whether history has been "tempered with" by the political dispensation in power, then IMHO, this *is* "primary data" - because it is translation of original circular in Bengali, and has never been questioned (to the best of my knowledge) vis-a-vis either about its veracity, or the reliability of its translation.

Thus , were the text books correct to depict "Islam in a poor light" in the first place.

Sir, I somewhat agree with you that one can't automatically say that original text was correct. Even the claim that some text portrays somebody/something in poor light or not, is dependent on a lot of factors. For example, the various texts often quoted as proofs of barbarity of many Muslim rulers were often commissioned by those very rulers to extol (what they may have thought as) their virtues. Indeed, even in the contemporary world, videos which engender horror amongst people, are often released by ISIS themselves with much fanfare.

That said, your statement, "Thus , were the text books correct to depict "Islam in a poor light" in the first place." - projects that the original texts depicted "Islam in a poor light". I would say the reverse, these statements actually gave a very moderated account of Islamic deeds, and were further cut down to size (so to say) by the political dispensation in power.

Why is the battle of Kalinga not taken as depicting Hindus in poor light and is not thought to provoke animosity between people of Bihar and Orissa? Why Hindu and Buddhist differences can be highlighted without least consideration of its impact on society? Further I would like to ask from learned members of this forum, which one of the above sentences from original text which was amended - they find to be incorrect so that it can be thought to be depicting "Islam in a poor light"? May be then we can discuss about the correctness of those statements based on actual "primary data" from "primary sources".

<wbr>Are there any comparable sources for Mr. Shourie's quotes?

Sir, by this if you mean to ask whether I have a copy of circular - than I don't possess such a copy. I only possess a copy of this book, which is "readily" available - and in which it is claimed that Mr. Shourie is indeed in possession of this circular which is in Bengali.


Now Sir, coming to the suitability or correctness of these amendments. I would certainly admit that I haven't read any of these text books, nor indeed, am I inclined to do so. Also, I think commenting on some of them would require the context, which is lacking here. But I have a quick few points to make,

1. As far as I am aware, there has been no new archaeological or otherwise discovery of import that was made in and around the year 1989, that would change our view of history in such a significant manner, so that we can say,
   • Mahmud [Ghaznavi] didn't use force to convert Hindus to Islam - which seems to be reason why it would be deleted.
   • Hindu idols or artifacts were not used as stepping stone in Masjid in Ghazni.
   • That by paying jaziya Hindus could lead normal lives. I would rather say Sir, by definition, irrespective of what else happens, if you have to pay jaziya, doesn't that mean that you are living life differently (and not normally) from (at least) Muslims.
   • Let me avoid going on and on like this, it would appear that it is being projected that Muslims may have looted and killed non-Muslims, but certainly they were not driven by any religious impulses, and that their religious texts are no different than those of other religions, and thus they were no different than any of the previous rulers in thought and action.
     
     As an aside a similar argument is often propounded that because Muslims kill each other, that means those killing are not real Muslims but only killers, because otherwise they would only kill non-muslims.
2. Another point of key interest to me from the above amended texts is, "'According to Todd [the famous chronicler of Rajasthan annals] the purpose behind Alauddin's Chittor expedition was to secure Rana Rattan Singh's beautiful wife, Padmini'"
   
   Sir by deleting this are we denying that Todd mentioned this, and that may be we have discovered a new and more accurate version of Todd's chronicles that doesn't mention this? Or may be that it is not important enough for readers to know that such an account (whether true or not) exists? Or it is that a particular world view is being thrust into history text books where not only all Muslims angels but even the Muslim rulers are supposed to have pristine character?
   
   Moreover, considering that the same omission was ensured from multiple books, doesn't that indicate that this is happening by design?
3. Finally, another point of interest for me, 'There was no place for casteism in Islam. Understandably, the influence of Islam created an awakening among Hindus against caste discrimination. Lower caste oppressed Hindus embraces Islam.'
   
   What exactly is the basis of this argument? I would like to hear arguments in favour of any of these assertions from learned members, if they believe these to be true.

In summary, IMHO, this circular clearly depicts how history text-books have been amended to suit political agenda of the political dispensation in power, and we all know (and I hope agree) which political dispensation has been in power most, ever since independence of India.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Welcome turn to discussion that members have started to quote original sources to understand the religious impact of the foreign invasions. But kindly remember the impact of these invasions on the life and letters of the country including religious beliefs, economic affairs, cultural and literary developments, arts and so on were multiple. Understanding initial repulsion and then coming together of the people of various religious groups over the years also makes an interesting study which could also be taken note of.

Since the period covered is spanning around one thousand years and a plethora of sources including archaeological, literary both official records and historical documents are available on the issue, it would take considerable time for the participants to arrive at convincing conclusions without dividing their areas of interest in manageable parts/sections on some solid basis. No generalisations could be applied to paint a picture of the full era to be studied and discussed thoroughly. Then and only then the text books could be revised and replaced with the new findings.

Hope to get more illuminating data in the form of posts as the discussion progresses. After freeing myself from the present pre-occupation I will also try to participate in this discussion. For the present, best wishes for a really engaging and constructive fruitful discussion.

 

[skharb]

In 1989, in West Bengal a circular (Dated 28/04/1989, Syl/89/1) was issued by the Government regarding Class IX textbooks. The circular issued amendments to the existing ashuddho history books to be incorporated into textbooks in subsequent editions, and as corrigendum for already published books. The suggested amendments have been reproduced here for the perusal of members,
>[/TABLE]




Sahij

If I may,

Some thoughts for you to consider.

What you have posted , is in essence "secondary data".

The question will arise to a good researcher, what is the reliability of it.

Thus , were the text books correct to depict "Islam in a poor light" in the first place.

Mr. V. Dhillon, quotes the Islamic writer Badauni , in his post, #, 149 from Islamic sources,

That would be a primary source .( unless the translation is wrong)

Are there any comparable sources for Mr. Shourie's quotes?

ravi choodhry bhai ..............histrroy arun shorry ya delete/accounting method nahi h..........seedhi arr sapt baat honi chahiye ki 1947 s pahle hindu kon tha ...........
islam k kya effect hui h jatto per ya app koo pata hoo 1947 s pahle hinduu per ??????????
taki mahare berge layman bhi samajh sake kya h haqikaat !

 

[ravichaudhary]

ravi choodhry bhai ..............histrroy arun shorry ya delete/accounting method nahi h..........seedhi arr sapt baat honi chahiye ki 1947 s pahle hindu kon tha ...........
islam k kya effect hui h jatto per ya app koo pata hoo 1947 s pahle hinduu per ??????????
taki mahare berge layman bhi samajh sake kya h haqikaat !

I will let this post be an an example of what not to post.

Mr. Kharb.

This is a History section.

If you cannot do others the courtsey of spelling their names correctly, you do not show yourself as being worthy of others engaging you in a discussion.

Govern yourself accordingly.

No more warnings

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[ravichaudhary]

Sir, whether something can be called "secondary data" or "primary data", is essentially dependent upon the use data is being put toa.

Sahij
I must agree on your comment, that the Government of West Bengal it is a primary source , as far as the changes to the History curriculum go.

Allow me to phrase the question in another way:

Is there any evidence, primary or secondary, that the Islamic invasions had any benign and positive effect on Indian Society- then composed of Hindus/ Jain/ Buddhists and later Sikhs

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Sahij
I must agree on your comment, that the Government of West Bengal it is a primary source , as far as the changes to the History curriculum go.

Allow me to phrase the question in another way:

Is there any evidence, primary or secondary, that the Islamic invasions had any benign and positive effect on Indian Society- then composed of Hindus/ Jain/ Buddhists and later Sikhs

Ravi Chaudhary

Thanks.

Good hypothesis formulated in the last sentence on the thread theme. Those who are interested to discuss ,kindly subscribe for and against it to arrive at some sort of conclusion on this aspect of impact on religious life of people.

 

[rkumar]

.......Is there any evidence, primary or secondary, that the Islamic invasions had any benign and positive effect on Indian Society- then composed of Hindus/ Jain/ Buddhists and later Sikhs

Ravi Chaudhary

Definitely it had many unintended good side effects on Indian society.

1. India was divided into small kingdoms. Islamic invasions contributed a lot in unifying India.
2. Muslims infused new war technology in India.
3. To best of my knowledge Muslims introduced the concept of stitched clothing in India. Before
that it was all wrapping and tying the knots type of fashion.
4. Many new concepts in building construction were introduced by Muslims.

Ofcourse there were many many negative fall outs as well. Biggest fall out was on morals in society.

RK^2

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Definitely it had many unintended good side effects on Indian society.

1. India was divided into small kingdoms. Islamic invasions contributed a lot in unifying India.
2. Muslims infused new war technology in India.
3. To best of my knowledge Muslims introduced the concept of stitched clothing in India. Before
that it was all wrapping and tying the knots type of fashion.
4. Many new concepts in building construction were introduced by Muslims.

Ofcourse there were many many negative fall outs as well. Biggest fall out was on morals in society.

RK^2

In addition to Losses in men and material in the warfare, losses in the form of drain of wealth were immense especially when the invaders came to India with intention of loot and rapine and not with an aim of settling in this country like M. Ghazanavi, Tamur, Nadirshah, Ahamdshah Abdali and then followed by many western trading companies in the modern times.

to be contd...

 

[ravichaudhary]

I am separating the topic and asking for positive comments to be listed in another thread.

 

[ravichaudhary]

Motivation for Invasion, loot, destruction of the other culture.


Dr. Singh postulates that Islamic invasions were for loot , not for destroying Hindu culture.

Dr. Singh is the only Academic History Professor on this site. Indeed he is one of the few Jats who is a History Professor.

We must be careful , thus while engaging with him, not to put him in an embarrassing position.

As one has to be careful and must proceed with some caution in suggesting that there are other perspectives, that there is evidence that does not wholly support his postulation.

Dr. Singh suggests that these Islamic invaders came to loot and plunder and were not motivated by their Islamic religion.

In enquiring further into this subject, one must distinguish between Religion( a revealed religion i.e the Abrahamic religions- Islam, Christianity) and Dharam ( which is the path of Righteousness, a philosophy, a way of life, the goal being self enlightenment, not heaven and hell.)


I will suggest that the question should be properly framed as :

Does Religion shape the person’s thinking ?

In the context of the Islamic invasions, did their Religion shape the invaders thinking and motivation?

Was destruction of the Dharmic culture , and conversion to Islam a co- objective to the objective of loot.?

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[ravichaudhary]

Motivation for Invasion, loot, destruction of the other culture.


Dr. Singh postulates that Islamic invasions were for loot , not for destroying Hindu culture.

Dr. Singh is the only Academic History Professor on this site. Indeed he is one of the few Jats who is a History Professor.

We must be careful , thus while engaging with him, not to put him in an embarrassing position.

As one has to be careful and must proceed with some caution in suggesting that there are other perspectives, that there is evidence that does not wholly support his postulation.

Dr. Singh suggests that these Islamic invaders came to loot and plunder and were not motivated by their Islamic religion.

In enquiring further into this subject, one must distinguish between Religion( a revealed religion i.e the Abrahamic religions- Islam, Christianity) and Dharam ( which is the path of Righteousness, a philosophy, a way of life, the goal being self enlightenment, not heaven and hell.)


I will suggest that the question should be properly framed as :

Does Religion shape the person’s thinking ?

In the context of the Islamic invasions, did their Religion shape the invaders thinking and motivation?

Was destruction of the Dharmic culture , and conversion to Islam a co- objective to the objective of loot.?

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Motivation for Invasion, loot, destruction of the other culture.


Dr. Singh postulates that Islamic invasions were for loot , not for destroying Hindu culture.

............................
Was destruction of the Dharmic culture , and conversion to Islam a co- objective to the objective of loot.?

Ravi Chaudhary

Friend,

Kindly avoid putting words in my mouth : 'not for destroying Hindu culture' which I have not used.

Since the issues involved under the thread theme are very wide, I just took up only one aspect of the motives/objects of invaders i.e. loot and rapine for smooth conduct of discussion . And concluded my post with words---'to be continued.

Other aims and objects of the invaders are to be taken up for discussion one by one separately.

Further, the term used by you: ' Dharmic culture' seems to be a new one . Could you elaborate its meaning.

Nonetheless, keep up your attempt to provide theoretical bases to the discussion.

Thanks and regards

 

[drrajpalsingh]

I am separating the topic and asking for positive comments to be listed in another thread.

There is no harm to discuss both the aspects under this thread heading and conduct smooth discussion at one place. Hence No Segregation or need of separate thread on the same topic needed.

Yes, the issues involved cover over thousands of years of history of India, the topic may be taken up chronologically divided in periods something like:

1. Pre-Sultanate period invasions,
2. Sultanate Period invasions
3. Mughal period invasions and coming of Europeans in India

Other, alternates if any for smooth conduct of discussion may be taken up/suggested.

But it is requested that no segregation of topic be made on merits/demerits or good/bad effects please to avoid unnecessary repetitions of events and incidents involved !

 

[prashantacmet]

Motivation for Invasion, loot, destruction of the other culture.


Dr. Singh postulates that Islamic invasions were for loot , not for destroying Hindu culture.

Dr. Singh is the only Academic History Professor on this site. Indeed he is one of the few Jats who is a History Professor.

We must be careful , thus while engaging with him, not to put him in an embarrassing position.

As one has to be careful and must proceed with some caution in suggesting that there are other perspectives, that there is evidence that does not wholly support his postulation.

Dr. Singh suggests that these Islamic invaders came to loot and plunder and were not motivated by their Islamic religion.

In enquiring further into this subject, one must distinguish between Religion( a revealed religion i.e the Abrahamic religions- Islam, Christianity) and Dharam ( which is the path of Righteousness, a philosophy, a way of life, the goal being self enlightenment, not heaven and hell.)


I will suggest that the question should be properly framed as :

Does Religion shape the person’s thinking ?

In the context of the Islamic invasions, did their Religion shape the invaders thinking and motivation?

Was destruction of the Dharmic culture , and conversion to Islam a co- objective to the objective of loot.?

Ravi Chaudhary

Ravi ji,

pretty good discussion have already taken place in the same thread and few "primary source" evidences have been also put forth. So it will be better to add from there rathe rthan starting a new thread, new discussion or teh same thing from start. There are so many threads already which never come out of slumber. Please take teh apin of reading the whole thread again.

 

[ravichaudhary]

There is no harm to discuss both the aspects under this thread heading and conduct smooth discussion at one place. Hence No Segregation or need of separate thread on the same topic needed.

Yes, the issues involved cover over thousands of years of history of India, the topic may be taken up chronologically divided in periods something like:

1. Pre-Sultanate period invasions,
2. Sultanate Period invasions
3. Mughal period invasions and coming of Europeans in India

Other, alternates if any for smooth conduct of discussion may be taken up/suggested.

But it is requested that no segregation of topic be made on merits/demerits or good/bad effects please to avoid unnecessary repetitions of events and incidents involved !

No disrespect to anyone, but we will maintain two separate threads.

So far any positive contribution by Islam has been drowned by the noise about its negative effects.

This is an opportunity for all to provide data about the positive effects, in a thread started for that very purpose.

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[ravichaudhary]

There is no harm to discuss both the aspects under this thread heading and conduct smooth discussion at one place. Hence No Segregation or need of separate thread on the same topic needed.

Yes, the issues involved cover over thousands of years of history of India, the topic may be taken up chronologically divided in periods something like:

1. Pre-Sultanate period invasions,
2. Sultanate Period invasions
3. Mughal period invasions and coming of Europeans in India

Other, alternates if any for smooth conduct of discussion may be taken up/suggested.

But it is requested that no segregation of topic be made on merits/demerits or good/bad effects please to avoid unnecessary repetitions of events and incidents involved !

No disrespect to anyone, but we will maintain two separate threads.

So far any positive contribution by Islam has been drowned by the noise about its negative effects.

This is an opportunity for all to provide data about the positive effects, in a thread started for that very purpose.

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[prashantacmet]

Friend,

Kindly avoid putting words in my mouth : 'not for destroying Hindu culture' which I have not used.

Since the issues involved under the thread theme are very wide, I just took up only one aspect of the motives/objects of invaders i.e. loot and rapine for smooth conduct of discussion . And concluded my post with words---'to be continued.

Other aims and objects of the invaders are to be taken up for discussion one by one separately.

Further, the term used by you: ' Dharmic culture' seems to be a new one . Could you elaborate its meaning.

Nonetheless, keep up your attempt to provide theoretical bases to the discussion.

Thanks and regards

Ok but from the writing it is pretty evident that you don't consider that a "primary" factor..right?..You have been confronted on that already in the thread.

 

[prashantacmet]

There is no harm to discuss both the aspects under this thread heading and conduct smooth discussion at one place. Hence No Segregation or need of separate thread on the same topic needed.

Yes, the issues involved cover over thousands of years of history of India, the topic may be taken up chronologically divided in periods something like:

1. Pre-Sultanate period invasions,
2. Sultanate Period invasions
3. Mughal period invasions and coming of Europeans in India

Other, alternates if any for smooth conduct of discussion may be taken up/suggested.

But it is requested that no segregation of topic be made on merits/demerits or good/bad effects please to avoid unnecessary repetitions of events and incidents involved !

Can you please start from Kasim and put forth the primary source in the support of your opinion?