Interestingly, Vikram's Y DNA was Q1a2, which peaks among siberians. His admixture results were very close to mine and distinct from other Indian groups/caste Again, the Siberian link and elevated European admixture group leads credence to the Scythian origin theory. It would be interesting to see what Vikram's Dr McDonalds breakdown would be.
Genetic Analysis of my DNA
- Thread starter vivek
- Start date
I believe its the opposite. Father passes the 'Y' chromosome to his son. It is not passed on to the daughter. This is why in a woman's DNA analysis it is impossible to get Y marker, while the male DNA, you get both X and Y results. So in essence, its only the male child that passes DNA information in the Y chromosome.
Are you of same Y DNA as above. I saw this information for Y DNA Q1a2 ,i am posting this link http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2010-05/1273113099
what are your inputs ?
No, my Y DNA is R2a. Interestingly 23andme finds that Vikram and I are related and share a chromosome.
urmiladuhan
New member
Where is the research to back the "peak" claim? Don't expect others to believe your stories, otherwise.
urmiladuhan
New member
Private companies have their vested interest, more so if they are giving something for FREE!
Kindly read the policy of National Geographic's Genographic Project on DNA collection where they take stringent precautions to ensure that DNA material is not misused (posted below; otherwise also available on https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/ ). The kit that you bought and are recommending to others, firstly is from a private company and secondly, it does not address public concerns such as privacy, involvement of pharmaceutical companies due to their possible vested interest in the collected DNA samples, and many such issues. These concerns are adequately dealt with by the National Geographic's Genographic Project (NDGP). Moreover, the NDGP is for Non Profit, even indirectly. Whereas a Private Company, such as your's, can and usually are linked to money making pharmaceutical companies etc.
1. Is the Genographic Project bio-prospecting?
No. The Genographic Project research centers are to release the resulting genetic data (on an anonymous and aggregate basis) into the public domain to promote further research. The genetic data will be treated as discoveries, rather than inventions, and will not be patented. The scientific consortium comprised of the ten regional research centers will author scientific papers based on their analysis. At the time of publication, the data associated with the research will be made public. All findings will be released into the public domain. The Genographic Project is a nonprofit effort and its noncommercial focus is fully supported by all its partners.
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2. Is the Genographic Project linked to any medical research?
No. The samples will be analyzed for historical and anthropological data only.
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3. Are any pharmaceutical or insurance companies involved in the Genographic Project?
No.
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4. What are you going to do with my DNA sample?
We are going to test your sample to determine what migratory routes your deep ancestors (on either your mother's or father's side of the family) followed and to which branch of the human family tree you belong. The tests do not tell us anything about your health or about any health problems you or your family may have. Once we have conducted the DNA analysis, you will be able to access your personal genetic migratory profile by logging on to the Genographic Project's personal gateway Web page at www.nationalgeographic.com/genographic and using your Genographic Project Participant ID number provided to you in your kit. Participation in the project is of course purely voluntary. By returning the sample, you are consenting to have your DNA sample tested to determine your migratory history. Unless you elect additional testing to be performed, your sample will be discarded at the conclusion of the project.
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5. How do you protect public participants' privacy and confidentiality?
Genographic Project public participant samples are assigned a randomly generated, nonsequential Genographic Project ID (GPID) number for processing and analysis. Public participants can access their results anonymously via the protected participant area of the Genographic Web site using his or her GPID. To help protect your privacy, the project does not associate any personally identifiable information about you with this randomly assigned password. Therefore, if you lose this password we cannot recover it for you or provide you with any other means of accessing the results of your participation. YOU MUST RETAIN THIS PASSWORD IN ORDER TO ACCESS YOUR GENETIC MIGRATORY PROFILE.
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6. How do you protect indigenous and traditional participants' data and ensure security, privacy, and confidentiality?
We have taken all reasonable steps to implement multiple security layers in the project. First, the project is based on the principle of anonymity—both for groups and individuals. We will not share the names of communities or individuals participating in the project unless they choose to do so. All samples from indigenous and traditional peoples will be coded by the regional centers and then recoded when the results are received. Only recoded data will be accessible in the central database. The link between the locally assigned code and an individual's name will be kept on file in the region, so that the central database cannot connect the two without local involvement. The alphanumeric codes were developed using an IBM algorithm to increase the level of security. The actual informed consent forms do include the names of the participants and are maintained at the regional center under lock and key. They are maintained separately from the actual coded samples in a secure location.
Second, the researchers use a customized field data collection application which is loaded on their IBM notebook computers. These notebooks are equipped with a customized biometric fingerprint security application that limits accessibility to the data on the notebook to the researcher or postdoc. This field-collection system consolidates the phenotypic data with the electronic output of sequencing the DNA samples into a single consolidated record and transmits these records via a virtual private network (VPN) to the master database at National Geographic headquarters in Washington, D.C.
Third, the consolidated data set and analytical results are located in one central location at National Geographic headquarters, the customized DNA Analysis Repository (DAR), a central database solution that manages electronic DNA data for the Genographic Project. The DAR leverages information management software to manage DNA data collected from Genographic Project investigators worldwide.
Overall, the project's infrastructure, policies, and procedures provide secure transmission, storage, and management of all the Genographic DNA data and records.
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7. What is your policy on confidentiality and privacy?
The results of the Genographic Project identify ancestral migration information only. They cannot be used to identify someone in criminal proceedings. The results of the Genographic Project Public Participation Kits can be accessed only by the respective participant or by someone else to whom the participant gives their randomly generated Genographic Project ID (GPID) number. No one can link a participant's name or other contact information to the sample that was provided to the Genographic Project unless they have the participant's GPID. To help protect the privacy of participants, the project does not associate any personally identifiable information about a participant with this randomly assigned password. As noted in the "Frequently Asked Questions" section of our website, National Geographic may disclose participant information when doing so is required by law. However, because National Geographic does not retain a participant's randomly generated GPID number, National Geographic cannot associate a participant's results with contact information the participant may have provided when ordering, such as a name or shipping address.
If a participant chooses to request further genetic testing from National Geographic's partner, Family Tree DNA, for purposes other than the Genographic Project, the participant will use their GPID to permit Family Tree DNA to access the sample of cheek cells they provided. Family Tree DNA has committed to National Geographic that it will protect the confidentiality of every GPID and that it will safeguard and use the number only for purposes of the further testing that the participant has requested. National Geographic will discard public participant samples at the conclusion of the Genographic Project unless participants have voluntarily transferred their individual samples to Family Tree DNA for optional further testing.
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9. Will Genographic share my test results with others?
No. Genographic Project public participant samples are assigned a randomly generated, nonsequential Genographic Project ID (GPID) number for processing and analysis. Public participants can only access their results via the secure participant area of the Genographic Web site using his or her GPID number.
There is no reputable private company that I am aware of giving this analysis for free. 23andme had a sale where you still have to subscribe to their newletter at $108/year. All in all, it still costs more than $200/kit.
This is 23and me description of Vikram's Haplogroup is as follows (Copy and paste as the web site will not allow me to poste a link) . Urmila, this is not for you but for others. Urmila, you do not have to believe anything and please refrain from replying to any of my threads as they will not be responded to. I have no intentions of getting in mind numbing meaningless arguments.
Introduction
Haplogroup Q arose about 18,000 years ago in north-central Asia, at the peak of the Ice Age. The first men who carried it pursued mammoths and other gigantic game over frigid steppe and tundra in climate conditions that are found today only in the far polar latitudes.
Today haplogroup Q remains relatively common in Siberia and north-central Asia. It is most common in the Kets and Selkups of northeastern Siberia, where it reaches levels of 93% and 66%, respectively.
Coming to America
Yet haplogroup Q is most abundant on the other side of the world, in the Americas. About 15,000 years ago a relatively small number of men bearing the Q1a3a branch of the haplogroup crossed from Asia to North America via the Bering land bridge, a strip of land which connected Siberia and Alaska at the time. The land bridge was a result of lower sea level caused by the increased amount of water that was frozen in the polar ice caps at the time.
The first Americans spread rapidly in the uninhabited continent. Some pursued migrating herds of mammoth, bison and other prey over the North American grasslands. Others made their way southward along the Pacific coast, likely traveling in small boats. Archaeological evidence suggests they reached the tip of South America by 13,000 years ago.
Men with Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup Q1a3a were almost certainly among those earliest South Americans. It is the only haplogroup present among South American Indians today.
This is 23and me description of Vikram's Haplogroup is as follows (Copy and paste as the web site will not allow me to poste a link) . Urmila, this is not for you but for others. Urmila, you do not have to believe anything and please refrain from replying to any of my threads as they will not be responded to. I have no intentions of getting in mind numbing meaningless arguments.
Introduction
Haplogroup Q arose about 18,000 years ago in north-central Asia, at the peak of the Ice Age. The first men who carried it pursued mammoths and other gigantic game over frigid steppe and tundra in climate conditions that are found today only in the far polar latitudes.
Today haplogroup Q remains relatively common in Siberia and north-central Asia. It is most common in the Kets and Selkups of northeastern Siberia, where it reaches levels of 93% and 66%, respectively.
Coming to America
Yet haplogroup Q is most abundant on the other side of the world, in the Americas. About 15,000 years ago a relatively small number of men bearing the Q1a3a branch of the haplogroup crossed from Asia to North America via the Bering land bridge, a strip of land which connected Siberia and Alaska at the time. The land bridge was a result of lower sea level caused by the increased amount of water that was frozen in the polar ice caps at the time.
The first Americans spread rapidly in the uninhabited continent. Some pursued migrating herds of mammoth, bison and other prey over the North American grasslands. Others made their way southward along the Pacific coast, likely traveling in small boats. Archaeological evidence suggests they reached the tip of South America by 13,000 years ago.
Men with Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup Q1a3a were almost certainly among those earliest South Americans. It is the only haplogroup present among South American Indians today.
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vikram18malik
New member
Hello friends,
My official post now
, I received two kits from Simranjit.I have got myself tested and got someone from Dalal gotra tested.My results are :
For YDNA Haplogroup - Q1a2.
Q haplogroup arose in Siberia ,central asia,Russia region as per analysis of genealogists.
Q1a2 arose in Northern parts of present day pakistan again as per analysis of some of geneologists. I cannot paste the links at present.
My mtDNA is U5a1a1.
U haplogroup arose in Europe .I have no idea where U5a1a1 arose as i am still going through some of the studies but it is found in low numbers in Northern region of India. Maybe because of the fact that not many people are tested for such studies in India compared to European countries.
I got my analysis done by one Dr McDonald involved in BioGeographical Ancestry (BGA) testing project and here are the results.
Male
Most likely fit is 17.8% (+- 0.5%) Europe (all Northeast Europe)
and 82.2% (+- 0.5%) S. Asia (all Pakistan)
The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
Russian= 0.182 Sindhi= 0.818
Finland= 0.173 Sindhi= 0.827
However, you fit a bit better as some three-fold mix of 0.123 Russian plus 0.671 Pathan
(Pashtun), which represents in our reference collection a ‘more European’ S. Asian, and
0.206 “North India” which really is Brahmin and upper caste India. The Russian
just appears to be “north European” as Finland fits equally well. It (Russian)
probably just means “more European” than our comparison S. Asians.
I’m sending more than the usual number of plots ... to fit well, you
have to average the same on each one.
Doug McDonald
I would be posting other results as well pretty soon once i get them.For the other Jat tested, maybe the Dalal gotra individual would post results himself or i may post similar sort of analysis for him as well.
vikram18malik
New member
Further to the results posted by Simranjit for other Jats. My analysis from DODECADs admixture is as follows:
West Asian W &E Euro South Asian
22.6% 26.3% 37.7%
prashantacmet
New member
Thanks vikram for report
urmiladuhan
New member
Hi Urmila,
I fail to understand your skepticism towards the thread. I know you're Phd in some genetic related field but instead of enlightening us you're locking horns with the members. That's certainly not in good taste.
I request you to shed some more light on the very topic and aware 'ignorant' us about the pros and cons of going for such tests.
Cheers
Jit
I fail to understand your skepticism towards the thread. I know you're Phd in some genetic related field but instead of enlightening us you're locking horns with the members. That's certainly not in good taste.
I request you to shed some more light on the very topic and aware 'ignorant' us about the pros and cons of going for such tests.
Cheers
Jit
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All the genetics guys and girls,
Do these genetics tests also tell the futuristic things like life expectancy, the diseases to which the person is very prone or resistive, the default personality types and lots of other things that are attributed to genetics? Or are these just to find out the historic information about parental origination and human movement?
Do these genetics tests also tell the futuristic things like life expectancy, the diseases to which the person is very prone or resistive, the default personality types and lots of other things that are attributed to genetics? Or are these just to find out the historic information about parental origination and human movement?
urmiladuhan
New member
Thanks Jit for your civil toned post.
First and foremost, I do not wish to confirm or deny what you have said on my educational qualification. It is immaterial.
In my humble and common sense based opinion, a genetic test for the purpose of geneology must ensure that the DNA material will NEVER be used to generate any other information except for what it has been declared for to the donor. I know that some of these FREE delivering Kit people use the generated information to label people to suit their fancy i.e., lower caste, marginalized section of society etc. How would you like it if someone has a "special interest" in getting a particular community labelled as something derogatory, and decides to offer Free Kits to the community members (as happening on this site) and then states that this community is predominantly linked to say a marginalized section of the society. A possible repercussion of such twisted information is for eg.,: A historian, who say has an interst in downplaying the contribution of Jats in history, can then cite this genetic information of Jats, and say for example, that Jats were never a great race as they were living as a marginalized group etc etc. There goes the efforts of Jat historians down the drain! or that genetically they are pre disposed to certain medical conditions that make them unfit for X, Y, Z.
In my humble opinion, it is important to ensure that these tests must be done by a reliable source ONLY.
Regards,
Urmila.
First and foremost, I do not wish to confirm or deny what you have said on my educational qualification. It is immaterial.
In my humble and common sense based opinion, a genetic test for the purpose of geneology must ensure that the DNA material will NEVER be used to generate any other information except for what it has been declared for to the donor. I know that some of these FREE delivering Kit people use the generated information to label people to suit their fancy i.e., lower caste, marginalized section of society etc. How would you like it if someone has a "special interest" in getting a particular community labelled as something derogatory, and decides to offer Free Kits to the community members (as happening on this site) and then states that this community is predominantly linked to say a marginalized section of the society. A possible repercussion of such twisted information is for eg.,: A historian, who say has an interst in downplaying the contribution of Jats in history, can then cite this genetic information of Jats, and say for example, that Jats were never a great race as they were living as a marginalized group etc etc. There goes the efforts of Jat historians down the drain! or that genetically they are pre disposed to certain medical conditions that make them unfit for X, Y, Z.
In my humble opinion, it is important to ensure that these tests must be done by a reliable source ONLY.
Regards,
Urmila.
I had mentioned sometime back in some other post that i believe in the theory that JATS were true inhabitants of northern plains of India ,Pakistan and Afghanistan.I am still with this theory that Jats migrated towards central asia and Europe and then reverse migrated back into this region.Human's are intelligent species why would they start dwelling in sub zero wintry places and then start to live in more hospitable places. If humans migrated from Africa then they ought to have settled in easy to dwell places like river sides and planes , they would have gone towards the north pole in search of more lands later.
There are 2 issues with this argument.
1. How can DNA infromation be used to label people as lower caste / marginalized section of society or anything derogatory? All one can do is to look for patterns and associations. Hypothetically speaking, if there is a statistical correlation between Jats and lower castes, then it is a fact. If someone makes this claim on insufficient data or improper sampling, the same can be rejected by a "better" study. There may perhaps be issues with respect to misuse of personal DNA data (something I don't know and would like to know), but this certainly is not one.
2. The argument seems to be appealing to the pride of Jats rather than their rationality. This is how most people would read the argument- "We are a great race, but this may be used to make you look inferior". Not saying it is intentional, but this sort of argument is chicken soup for the conspiracy theorists here who believe that the whole world is out to get Jats.
I have respect for the previous argument you had been making about statistics, the essence of which was probably lost in a clash of egos. The data of 1 or even 100 individuals can't be used to conclude anything about the historicity of Jats. We need a more scientific sampling where due care is taken to avoid statistical mistakes. As a neutral observer, I don't think the protagonists of this thread were making any serious conclusions about Jats as a group or even have an agenda with respect to that. They just seem enthusiastic about their own results and the inferences that can be derived from it. I don't think they realise that there are people here who would usurp their results as undisputed evidence of a certain version of Jat history that suits their existing beliefs. Nevertheless, I'd still say that it leads to more data, information and awareness, which is good for "genetic studies on Jats". The data collection itself may be haphazard, leaving a lot to be desired, but then Rome wasn't built in one day.
urmiladuhan
New member
There is no rocket science involved in skewing up data without using statistics as a tool. The same way these people here are linking themselves to their preferred "race/ethinicity" (read "white"). Using their own non scientific method, they could easily be linked to scheduled castes of India or other marginalized people around the world - and why not, if it serves someone's purpose! Just identify one sample from a person belonging to a marginalized group with same haplotype and viola! they have the same ancestry!! The next days headlines: "Genes Speak: Jats are the Scheduled Castes of India"!!!
Kindly save me from explaining such a simple matter
Regards,
Urmila.
There is no rocket science involved in skewing up data without using statistics as a tool. The same way these people here are linking themselves to their preferred "race/ethinicity" (read "white"). Using their own non scientific method, they could easily be linked to scheduled castes of India or other marginalized people around the world - and why not, if it serves someone's purpose! Just identify one sample from a person belonging to a marginalized group with same haplotype and viola! they have the same ancestry!! The next days headlines: "Genes Speak: Jats are the Scheduled Castes of India"!!!
Kindly save me from explaining such a simple matter
Regards,
Urmila.
Sorry, I don't really get the "simple matter". What's the issue exactly here? Is it one of these or something else?
1. People getting their own DNA mapping done and deriving inferences from the results? If you think the inference (based on a genuine scientific result) is wrong, point it out- everyone will be better off. If they insist on sticking to their biases, then they are idiots- doesn't harm you. I don't think you have yet scientifically challenged anyone's inference here- yet.
2. People with an "agenda" collecting myriad data points to make unscientific claims? This is worth having an issue about, but the people getting their DNA tested for their own purpose are not the ones to be blamed! Those with an agenda or those communicating it via media should be focused on. In your example, it is the newspaper that publishes such a ridiculous piece, that should be blamed. The scientific community does a decent job of tackling the black sheep within. In the world of science, truth backed by evidence eventually prevails.
I also don't get why you are harping on about Jats getting associated with scheduled caste or marginalized people. If you have a scientific issue with dubious claims, then it shouldn't matter whether the headline is about linking Jats to marginalized people or to a "great" ancestry, as long as it is dubious. But the way you are arguing, your issue seems more that you don't want Jats to be linked to Scheduled Castes, which is as much of a bias as the one you are supposedly arguing against. Surely, we shouldn't believe that Jats should stop DNA testing, lest the results link us to SCs. If that's the result, that IS the result.
Harrappa ancestory project is an effort to list admixture components of various people from subcontinent. It has about 170 people and several jats. The admixture components results given are real, and to ask for statistical component in admixture as Miss Duhan wanted in previous posts is silly and points to lack of understanding of statistics. The inference gathered from that are just opinions, or points of interest and no one here is claiming a scientific conclusive proof to their opinions. Simranjeet's effort at Jatt gene is just a start to understand Jatt genetics and possible origin. It is not a scientific study...it is a blog. Anyone with rudimentary knowledge of genetics knows that in Eurasian population with its migration, most population subgroups have numerous haplotypes. Example, R1a1 is found from Europe to South India. I agree with you that there is no parameter listed in admixture that can be used to link Jats with a lower caste, if there is such a thing.
The only agenda I see here is by Miss Duhan to affect the conversation to prove herself as some superior intellect. Her mode of rebuttal is name calling by callng people racist, and attaching agenda to people where there is none. If there is a danger of Jats of being considered 'lower caste', it is more from listening to self affected arguments of Miss Duhan and her association with the jats than anything else on this thread or the various admixture projects.
Let's get back to the admixture components. It seems to indicate that the results of all the jats tested, the admixture clusters with the pathan population (actually between pathan and Borusho population). Now, there are only 7-8 jats that have been tested, but the mean and variance of the admixture seem to indicate that its a distinct group from other North Indian population. If we are to place the results of the admixture of these jats and correlate it geographically (prior to migration), it points to Afghanistan.
This is what the admixture results from 7-8 jats seem to indicate. Is this a scientific study...No....but everyone is entitled to their opinions from it.
This is what the admixture results from 7-8 jats seem to indicate. Is this a scientific study...No....but everyone is entitled to their opinions from it.