Genetic Studies To know about Ancestors of Jats

prashantacmet said:
Now Narender kharb ji has to provide his opinion on this.....Narender ji has a theory that all jatts have a common ancestor...

By the way, what do you say about haplogroup Q1a...?...... A very prominent clan of hindu jatt sample has this result
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http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_Q_Y-DNA.shtml

Here's a partial listing of YHG Q subclades in Western Eurasia:

Q1a2a1 (L54)
Q1a2a1a (CTS11969)
Q1a2a1a1 (M3): the main subclade of Native Americans
Q1a2a1a2 (L804): found in Germany, Scandinavia and Britain (possibly Hunnic)
Q1a2a1a2a (L807): observed in Britain
Q1a2a1b (Z780): found among Native Americans, notably in Mexico
Q1a2a1c (L330): the main subclade of the Mongols, also found among the Kazakhs and Uzbeks, as well as in Ukraine, Turkey and Greece (probably Mongolian and Turkic)


Q1a2b (L940): found in Central Asia, Afghanistan, India, Russia, Georgia, Hungary, Poland and Germany



  • Q1b (L275): found among the Tatars of Russia, in Central Asia, Afghanistan and Pakistan
    • Q1b1 (M378): observed in Kazakhstan, India and Germany


    • Q1a1a1 (M120) : observed in Mongolia, Japan and India
  • Q1a1b (M25) : observed in Mongolia, Siberia, northern India, the Middle East, Italy and Ireland


Q1a2b1 (L527): found almost exclusively in Scandinavia and places settled by the Vikings
Q1a2b2 (L938): observed in Anatolia, Lithuania, Britain and Portugal
Q1a2b2a (L939): observed in Britain

Q1a2c (M323)

L804 and L807 appear to be particularly intriguing because it appears to be closer to Native American subclades.

These be the main Q haplogroups need to be looked into.
 
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Mr Paul Gill wrote -

"One thing to keep in mind is, that all Jats are not the children of one ancestors but various tribes, that came to be known as Jats later on sometime, and that time line can be determined like in the example above."

This fact is proved from the structure of Jat clans. It is important to find the exact time from all these analytical works when Jat came into existence. That is the Jat Federation ?

My view is that Shiva and Kartikeya formed the Jat Federation and not the Krishna as hypothesized by Thakur Deshraj and others.

Shiva as person probably existed in about 4000 BC.
 
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Prashant ji,

I must admit that I have studied very limited field on the present issue. I have never been a science student. I read about the DNA theory in Hukam Singh's book long back but could not make out any thing because of my own limitations. So I would not be able to say any thing about it. But a question arises in my mind that hoe relevant a theory would be today when much mongrel water has flown doen the ganges of cmilleniums.Let us not shy away from the fact that present day Jats are known to be very liberal as bride takers as they have been very rigig as bride givers, Therefore I would be hesitant in pursuing the genetic way to trace the hoary past of our people.
 
drssrana2003 said:
Prashant ji,

I must admit that I have studied very limited field on the present issue. I have never been a science student. I read about the DNA theory in Hukam Singh's book long back but could not make out any thing because of my own limitations. So I would not be able to say any thing about it. But a question arises in my mind that hoe relevant a theory would be today when much mongrel water has flown doen the ganges of cmilleniums.Let us not shy away from the fact that present day Jats are known to be very liberal as bride takers as they have been very rigig as bride givers, Therefore I would be hesitant in pursuing the genetic way to trace the hoary past of our people.
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rana ji,in DNA study we are talking about is Y haplogroup (male-line)...I agree that jats tooks local brides from many caste/tribe...........but male -line is still better from other communities of India.. With all my study so far, I am of the opinion that jat people came here at multiple times (first as aryanas, later on scythians and finally hunnic) and their origin was central asia and surroundings area..........not a single tribe but a confederation of many close-knit tribes.....I may be wrong and still I don't fully accept and reject any theory...learning is going on.. :)
 
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prashantacmet said:
rana ji,in DNA study we are talking about is Y haplogroup (male-line)...I agree that jats tooks local brides from many caste/tribe...........but male -line is still better from other communities of India.. With all my study so far, I am of the opinion that jat people came here at multiple times (first as aryanas, later on scythians and finally hunnic) and their origin was central asia and surroundings area..........not a single tribe but a confederation of many close-knit tribes.....I may be wrong and still I don't fully accept and reject any theory...learning is going on.. :)
Click to expand...

Do I take it that in this DNA system female does not count ? But the female being the sole custodian/career of the line and the sole witness of the

upholding of the purity of blood/morals/practices, what reliance we would place on the system for an accurate exemplar?
 
drssrana2003 said:
Do I take it that in this DNA system female does not count ? But the female being the sole custodian/career of the line and the sole witness of the

upholding of the purity of blood/morals/practices, what reliance we would place on the system for an accurate exemplar?
Click to expand...
sir, Please start here..

mtDNA- A direct maternal ancestor can be traced using mtDNA. MtDNA is passed down by the mother unchanged, to all
children

Y-DNA- A man's patrilineal ancestry, or male-line ancestry, can be traced using the DNA on his Y chromosome (Y-DNA) through Y-STR testing.


so both maternal and patrilineal ancestory can be traced separately. Here in this thread, mostly we talk about Y-DNA, patrilineal ancestory.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test#Mitochondrial_DNA_.28mtDNA.29_testing
 
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prashantacmet said:
sir, Please start here..

mtDNA- A direct maternal ancestor can be traced using mtDNA. MtDNA is passed down by the mother unchanged, to all
children

Y-DNA- A man's patrilineal ancestry, or male-line ancestry, can be traced using the DNA on his Y chromosome (Y-DNA) through Y-STR testin


so both maternal and patrilineal ancestory can be traced separately. Here in this thread, mostly we talk about Y-DNA, patrilineal ancestory.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test#Mitochondrial_DNA_.28mtDNA.29_testing
Click to expand...

Prashant Ji,

Thanks for your effort. You have tried to make it simple. I think I must not pretend any more. You know it well. 'budhe tote nahin padh sakte.' Any way, as I
s famous ' na sarvah sarvam jaanaati' - we do not expect every one to know every thingh.
 
prashantacmet said:
sir, Please start here..

mtDNA- A direct maternal ancestor can be traced using mtDNA. MtDNA is passed down by the mother unchanged, to all
children

Y-DNA- A man's patrilineal ancestry, or male-line ancestry, can be traced using the DNA on his Y chromosome (Y-DNA) through Y-STR testing.


so both maternal and patrilineal ancestory can be traced separately. Here in this thread, mostly we talk about Y-DNA, patrilineal ancestory.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test#Mitochondrial_DNA_.28mtDNA.29_testing
Click to expand...

Old information on that link. STRs may not be necessary unless one is looking for a close male relative, SNPs also called Snips are the best. If one's gotra is known to be of R1a lineage, then testing just for one SNP will prove if one really belong to R1a lineage or not, total cost may be as little as $25 US.
 
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Ancestral Roots of the Jats

There are some interesting posts in this thread about genetic studies. I summarize my views below, based on my research and books "Before India -- Exploring Your Ancestry with DNA," and "Ancestral Roots of the Jats -- DNA Revelations" (both are listed the"Books in English" section of this website).

All modern humans (Homo sapiens) are genetically connected to a man -- often referred to as the "Y-chromosomal Adam" -- wholived in Africa more than one hundred thousand years ago. Descendants of this man dispersed in different directions and inhabited this planet. By living in different climates, eating different types of food, and breeding with people who were already there -- thus mixing their genes -- their color, size, and physiognomy changed. These people arrived in the Indian subcontinent over time, and moved on to inhabit the Far East and Australia.

If we picture the entire human population as a tree, a “haplogroup” is a branch of this tree that designates a cluster of people who have inherited common genetic characteristics from the same ancestor going back several thousand years. Genetically, all people can be identified by their unique haplogroups, based on their paternal or maternal DNA. Currently, there are twenty major paternal haplogroups, expressed with the letters A to T, that represent the genes passed from father-to-son. Each haplogroup contains sub-haplogroups (for example, sub-groups G2, R1b, H3, etc.). To determine the geographical originsof people the top level haplogroup designation is sufficient.

A study of about 100 Jats from Haryana and Punjab revealed that they belonged to at least six different haplogroups with the following geographical origins:

Haplogroup - Geographical Origin

E - NortheastAfrica
G - Easternedge of the Middle East
J - Fertile Crescent (Mesopotamia, the land in and around the Tigris and Euphrates rivers)
L - Pamirknot region (Hindu Kush, Tian Shah, Himalayas) in and around Tajikistan
Q - Siberia(North Asia)
R - CentralAsia (from the Caspian Sea to border of Western China)

The Jats are not the only ones with these origins. There are people in many other ethnic communities of the Indian subcontinent, and some other parts of their world, that belong to the same haplogroups and have the same common ancestors. Thus, there is an underlying genetic unity that cuts across several ethnic communities of the Indian subcontinent. As an example, a study by the Biological group at the Sree Buddha College of Engineering in Kerala showed that, in the sample used, the genetic composition of some men from the Ezhava community in Kerala was the same as some Jats Sikhs in Punjab, proving that these people had the same common ancestor somewhere in the past.

As Professor George Church of Harvard has said, “Written records go back to the dawn of written history. DNA goes back to the dawn of human existence.” Because our written history goes back less than 2,500 years, it is easy to focus on what is written in books about people who arrived in India during this recent period. As one of several examples, the Bhimbetka Caves in Madhya Pradesh were inhabited by pre-modern humans (Homo erectus) more than three hundred thousand years ago. Thus, people have been migrating to the Indian subcontinent, and mixing and merging with the people who were already there, for thousands of years before any history books were written. According to the haplogroups listed above, and their DNA markers (not shown), the ancestors of Jats go back fifteen to forty thousand years and they arrived from many different directions. Therefore, any references to the Jats being descendants of any one specific group of recent people such as the Aryans, Scythians, Medes, etc., cannot be scientifically substantiated. The Jats belong to several different haplogroups, and have several different origins.

Dave Mahal
 
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Dgmjat said:
There are some interesting posts in this thread about genetic studies. I summarize my views below, based on my research and books "Before India -- Exploring Your Ancestry with DNA," and "Ancestral Roots of the Jats -- DNA Revelations" (both are listed the"Books in English" section of this website).

All modern humans (Homo sapiens) are genetically connected to a man -- often referred to as the "Y-chromosomal Adam" -- wholived in Africa more than one hundred thousand years ago. Descendants of this man dispersed in different directions and inhabited this planet. By living in different climates, eating different types of food, and breeding with people who were already there -- thus mixing their genes -- their color, size, and physiognomy changed. These people arrived in the Indian subcontinent over time, and moved on to inhabit the Far East and Australia.

If we picture the entire human population as a tree, a “haplogroup” is a branch of this tree that designates a cluster of people who have inherited common genetic characteristics from the same ancestor going back several thousand years. Genetically, all people can be identified by their unique haplogroups, based on their paternal or maternal DNA. Currently, there are twenty major paternal haplogroups, expressed with the letters A to T, that represent the genes passed from father-to-son. Each haplogroup contains sub-haplogroups (for example, sub-groups G2, R1b, H3, etc.). To determine the geographical originsof people the top level haplogroup designation is sufficient.

A study of about 100 Jats from Haryana and Punjab revealed that they belonged to at least six different haplogroups with the following geographical origins:

Haplogroup - Geographical Origin

E - NortheastAfrica
G - Easternedge of the Middle East
J - Fertile Crescent (Mesopotamia, the land in and around the Tigris and Euphrates rivers)
L - Pamirknot region (Hindu Kush, Tian Shah, Himalayas) in and around Tajikistan
Q - Siberia(North Asia)
R - CentralAsia (from the Caspian Sea to border of Western China)

The Jats are not the only ones with these origins. There are people in many other ethnic communities of the Indian subcontinent, and some other parts of their world, that belong to the same haplogroups and have the same common ancestors. Thus, there is an underlying genetic unity that cuts across several ethnic communities of the Indian subcontinent. As an example, a study by the Biological group at the Sree Buddha College of Engineering in Kerala showed that, in the sample used, the genetic composition of some men from the Ezhava community in Kerala was the same as some Jats Sikhs in Punjab, proving that these people had the same common ancestor somewhere in the past.

As Professor George Church of Harvard has said, “Written records go back to the dawn of written history. DNA goes back to the dawn of human existence.” Because our written history goes back less than 2,500 years, it is easy to focus on what is written in books about people who arrived in India during this recent period. As one of several examples, the Bhimbetka Caves in Madhya Pradesh were inhabited by pre-modern humans (Homo erectus) more than three hundred thousand years ago. Thus, people have been migrating to the Indian subcontinent, and mixing and merging with the people who were already there, for thousands of years before any history books were written. According to the haplogroups listed above, and their DNA markers (not shown), the ancestors of Jats go back fifteen to forty thousand years and they arrived from many different directions. Therefore, any references to the Jats being descendants of any one specific group of recent people such as the Aryans, Scythians, Medes, etc., cannot be scientifically substantiated. The Jats belong to several different haplogroups, and have several different origins.

Dave Mahal
Click to expand...

It is already proved that Aryan, scythians etc. can not be strictly classified as a race..they were the people who lived in some particular region and spoke some particular languages....so there were some people in past who carried these tags and Jats are pretty good presentation of them in modern times in India.

and we more clearly analyze the jats lineage, we can narrow it down. For example, many branches of haplogroup J is found among middle east people, specially jews...but jatt sub-branch J2 distinguish them from middle east people.

Similarly G2 is found among Ossetians (region between black sea and Caspian sea, best wrestlers in the world), known as Alans in past.
 
I fully agree to the Bottom line of Dave Mahal's post No. 33 above:

Therefore, any references to the Jats being descendants of any one specific group of recent people such as the Aryans, Scythians, Medes, etc., cannot be scientifically substantiated. The Jats belong to several different haplogroups, and have several different origins.

This scientifically leads to Jat being a Federation of many groups and clans.
So Panini rightly said - जट-झट संघाते
 
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lrburdak said:
I fully agree to the Bottom line of Dave Mahal's post No. 33 above:

Therefore, any references to the Jats being descendants of any one specific group of recent people such as the Aryans, Scythians, Medes, etc., cannot be scientifically substantiated. The Jats belong to several different haplogroups, and have several different origins.

This scientifically leads to Jat being a Federation of many groups and clans.
So Panini rightly said - जट-झट संघाते
Click to expand...

Laxman ji,

But it has been amply clarified in the numerous posts that the Paninian reference is grossly misunderstood. It has no reference to a federation. sanghaata only stands for a cluster of nonliving things.
 
It confirms that Jat was a federation. Panini, the great Sanskrit grammarian and logician was born in Salatura in Gandhara (present day Kandahar) in modern Afghanistan who mentioned about the Jats in his classic, Aṣṭādhyāyī(अष्टाध्यायी), in the form of shloka as " जट झट सङ्घाते " (Jat Jhat Sanghate). And, this shloka highlights that the terms 'Jat' and 'democratic federation' are synonymous. He has also mentioned many Jat clans as settled in Punjab and North-West areas.

For more historical references see -

India as Known to Panini - book by Vasudeva Saran Agrawala It is a study of the cultural material in the Ashṭādhyāyī, Published by University of Lucknow, 1953, India, 549 pages
 
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