Gotra Issue...is this 21st century

[hdsura]

Good Qoute

I admire your effort to dig up this nice but obscure quote.

Unfortunately, the truth is quite the opposite.

Don't take me wrong but since when we started to accept an authority? The proof is in the pudding (posts herein).

Just wanted to share a quote.

Sir J N Sarkar*: "From ancient times till today Jats have been witnessing to democratic system and it is on account of this system that the entire community is based on equality, integrity, sociability and individual liberty. Despite the want of diplomatic skill, a common economic system and conducting a regular administration, they acknowledge the opinion of their elected leader or a respected chief with great reverence."

-vinod

*- Sir J N Sarkar was an Indian historian, inarguably one among the best.

 

[hdsura]

Kharub,

I like your Jat zeal, but, at times it is too extreme, like Talibs. Think over.

 

[vinodks]

Just a suggestion. Don't gauge obscurity based on your own ignorance. How many Indians you knwo who were awarded knighthood for research in history? Problem with peudo-intellectuals is they take stand first and then vehemently defend it using the jargon they learned in English schools (as someone else also mentioned it before). Your comment that 'truth is quite opposite' means "whatever I know is truth, what I am ignorant of is untruth". Nobody is going to get any award by winning any argument here. It's all self-learning process; some have open ears, some have them closed, some have no ears, some dont even know what ears stand for.
Jyada ho gya to sorry!

-vinod

I admire your effort to dig up this nice but obscure quote.

Unfortunately, the truth is quite the opposite.

Don't take me wrong but since when we started to accept an authority? The proof is in the pudding (posts herein).

 

[mann123]

we must not prove everything wrong. I think Panchyat system is most ancient democratic system in Jats and it is time tested.

The issue here is not the panchayati system but the decision taken by that panchayat. That may be wrong or right if that is wrong how.

In my view the panchayat in this case is right. Take this case Ek baat batao wo jo sheoran byaa ke layaa hai sheoran to uskee bebe bhee hai or bahu bhee and sheoran uske bhai bhee or salee bhee yo koi badiya naa hai.

aise case pehle bhee sunee hai bhaiyo yo to ek hi Gaam ka case hai kaee Gaam to 15-20 Km tahee bhee kisee gaam na byaa kartee.

Some of the educated people claims that if court don't have objection then why panchayat have?

Court don't know much about our traditions. Agar court ke hisab to chaloge to same gotra me shaadi karna koi jurm nahee hai.

I think panchayata me rajneete aa gee nahee to they were the best democratic system prevailing since long.

 

[hdsura]

Viewpoint

Your's is also a view and nothing wrong with it.

I have nothing at stake here to take a stand, I mean zilch. Plenty other more important things to take stand on than this some P* crap.

Ignorant, I may be. No award called knighthood in india in my memory. Something during Angrez gulami I rather not go that far to tickle my memory.

Just a suggestion. Don't gauge obscurity based on your own ignorance. How many Indians you knwo who were awarded knighthood for research in history? Problem with peudo-intellectuals is they take stand first and then vehemently defend it using the jargon they learned in English schools (as someone else also mentioned it before). Your comment that 'truth is quite opposite' means "whatever I know is truth, what I am ignorant of is untruth". Nobody is going to get any award by winning any argument here. It's all self-learning process; some have open ears, some have them closed, some have no ears, some dont even know what ears stand for.
Jyada ho gya to sorry!

-vinod

 

[ashokpaul]

ARISE And AWAKE.....

The basic problem is that panchayats are in the wrong hands. All the awakened people must join hands to stop this. the court decisions are no solution to the social problems. The solution lies within the system. KISI BHI CHEEJ KO ANDAR SE HI THIK KIYA JA SAKTA AUR YAHI STHAYI HOTA HAI.

The panchayati people are those who are mostly illiterate or litterare but with no sense for the problems of common man. They are there to give FATWAS and not to provide solutions. VO PANCHAYAT KI AAD ME AAPNI ROTI SEKTE HAIN!!! The intelligent people of the JAT community are not taking part in the system. They are either living in the cities or abroad. They are passively involved in the local politics. YE SAB AAPNE BHAIYON KE LIYE SANVEDANA KI KAMI SE HAI. They have no pain in thier heart for the plight of common people.
Its very clear from the fact that intelligent person search for the job and reside in city, but people left behind(who were not sharp in study) become the part of ruling community. This community is ruling over HIS PARENTS, HIS ASSETS and everything HE POSSESSED in the village. And the INTELLECTUAL has no time for the well being of the village, the villagers who play significant role in his success, his parents and his assets.
YADI LEFT BEHIND LOG RAJ KARENGE TO PROBLEMS HONGI HI, GALAT FATAWE BHI JARI HONGE, SOCIETY BHI PICHHARI RAHEGI, AUR INTELLECTUALS KE LIYE BHI KAM KARANE ME MUSHKIL HOGI.

Solution lies in the fact that WE, THE INTELLECTUALS must lead the society. there should be a group named like "JAT INTELLECTUAL'S PANCHAYAT" i.e. JIP to counter the problems caused by JP i.e. JAT PANCHAYAT i.e. the group of left behinds. Basic precaution is that intellectual's must be ABOVE VOTE SYSTEM. ARISE, AWAKE and JOIN hands to make beter PANCHAYATS for the future of our children. WE , the intellectuals must understand politics take the corrective steps.
POLITICS AND TIME NEVER WAIT ....................................9416482391

 

[sidchhikara]

Thanks to all the guys who agree with me.
Also, Vishwajeet has the full right to express his opinions no matter how extreme they are.
In this case they don't seem too extreme considering the fact that most Jats do hold these kind of opinions with the same level of extremity.

 

[raj_rathee]

Thanks to all the guys who agree with me.

Laage sae tu Sarpanchi ke 'lection tahin khada hon laag raha sae.

 

[kharub]

Thanks to all the guys who agree with me.
Also, Vishwajeet has the full right to express his opinions no matter how extreme they are.
In this case they don't seem too extreme considering the fact that most Jats do hold these kind of opinions with the same level of extremity.

Why do people with real belief in a cause called extreme ......... what is more dangerous for the world and human society .. beliefless liberals or peopel who really believe in social and cultural values .... I am not an extremist ....

I have lived in 5 different countries and am very well integrated and a recognised socially in each of those scenes ....... dont catagorise me as a ghetto Pakistani in the UK - they are extremists ...

Extremism stems of ignorance ..... My views are infact a result of enlightment from my global experiences

I was very liberal and my parents are still very very liberal .. those who know them will know ..... But the more I see the erosion of the social fabric .... the more conservative my views become .....

If we leave Jat future to you liberals ......... Jats will cease to exist very soon .. infact they will be half-bred mules ....... Shankar bajra ...
and Jats are not half bred mules ...... They are Tigers ....

 

[kharub]

The basic problem is that panchayats are in the wrong hands.

So is the government of India and every state ........ Do you want to blame that on Jats too ??

The panchayati people are those who are mostly illiterate or litterare but with no sense for the problems of common man. They are there to give FATWAS and not to provide solutions. VO PANCHAYAT KI AAD ME AAPNI ROTI SEKTE HAIN!!! The intelligent people of the JAT community are not taking part in the system. They are either living in the cities or abroad. They are passively involved in the local politics. YE SAB AAPNE BHAIYON KE LIYE SANVEDANA KI KAMI SE HAI. They have no pain in thier heart for the plight of common people.

I consider myself intellegent .... come from a family of highly recognised and internationally awarded academics .. My mother is a fellow at Indian Institute of Advanced Studies ...... awarded by UN for her work in academics ..... winner of Commonwealth Scholarship to pursue a Phd. at Cambridge ....and my dad is a highly intellegent Civil Servant ... and I have been living abroad for very long ... and thoroughly support the Panchayats .......... so as per your explanation I am an idiot and ignorant and illetrate perhaps ......well if an intellectual is saying it ... it must be right

Its very clear from the fact that intelligent person search for the job and reside in city, but people left behind(who were not sharp in study) become the part of ruling community. This community is ruling over HIS PARENTS, HIS ASSETS and everything HE POSSESSED in the village. And the INTELLECTUAL has no time for the well being of the village, the villagers who play significant role in his success, his parents and his assets.
YADI LEFT BEHIND LOG RAJ KARENGE TO PROBLEMS HONGI HI, GALAT FATAWE BHI JARI HONGE, SOCIETY BHI PICHHARI RAHEGI, AUR INTELLECTUALS KE LIYE BHI KAM KARANE ME MUSHKIL HOGI.

Solution lies in the fact that WE, THE INTELLECTUALS must lead the society. there should be a group named like "JAT INTELLECTUAL'S PANCHAYAT" i.e. JIP to counter the problems caused by JP i.e. JAT PANCHAYAT i.e. the group of left behinds. Basic precaution is that intellectual's must be ABOVE VOTE SYSTEM. ARISE, AWAKE and JOIN hands to make beter PANCHAYATS for the future of our children. WE , the intellectuals must understand politics take the corrective steps.
POLITICS AND TIME NEVER WAIT ....................................9416482391

Well as per your definition neither me nor my family comes under the INTELLECTUAL catagory ........ so we appoint you the Messiah of Jat people ... please spread your divine Intellect and pull us out of the gutter we live in ...... our future rests on you and your enlightment of us ignorant souls

 

[kharub]

I will have to agree with Sidharth. Who you chose to marry is only your business and the panchayat should have no say in it. In this case they are trying to impose their will on others. Pachayat's have not changed with time and are still trying to impose some of the age old customs. If the families involved do not have any problem then what the F*** is the panchayat's problem ?

I admire Kharb's passion for the JAT community but he seems to make every issue a JATS vs the rest of the world issue and always has these war analogies like we have to gear up to fight the rest of the world. Don't quite get that.

Chikkara sahab ...... we live in a society .. and Jat society is the integral part of being a Jat .. Its our customs that give us the Jat values .... why do we have to change our cutoms .. just because following customs means backwardness ... in my humble opinion only to those who have an inferiority complex .. not to me ....

Lets learn something form teh Jews .. its theri culture and value and strict adherence to it that makes them so powerful and dominating ...

And yes if you have not noticed there has always been an anti-Jat bias .... people have a prejudice

Just last month I met a Half-marwadi Half English lad who has just launched a hi-end fashion and lifestyle magazine in Northern Europe .... and it was a business meeting ... during the course of lunch he asked me .. where are you from in India ..... I said Haryana ....... so he asked me are you a Jat .. I said yes ....... and he said the way you are dressed and the way you talk .. I would have never guessed that you were a Jat ........ and I told him I find it rather insulting and a not a compliment ...... and you should have seen his face ... he was trying to make it up to me the whole rest of the meeting

He was half-british and lived most fo his life in the UK .. but his marwadi side of the family still fed him the Jat steroetype ........

I have many stories like this .. when people say .. I couldn't have guessed you are a Jat .... and this bias is as a result of the the anti-Jat sentiment and conspiracy

If i believe in something ....... i fight for it .. I am not a Thali ka baingan ... I stick to what i believe in

 

[pnauhwar21]

Guys..if you go back to origins of humans, everybody would have same ancestors..not sure how these gotras came into being within same community..we say that Manu created the different classes viz. shudras, khatriyas, brahmins and Vaishya..so initially people in india got divided on the basis of these classes..then further various sub-castes got into being and within those various gotras..so how come marrying in same gotra is genetically wrong? How come the genes of people from same ancestors got divided and so much different that marrying within same gotra is termed a potential medical problem?

And if genetics was the main reason then why don't see a lot of genetically challanged muslims, they marry far closer in the relations than the Jats in this particular case..

Apart from genetics, if their is any cultural reason for these customs, what are they? If its just about not marrying within close relations of sisters/brothers, everybody would be sister/brother eventually if you go back in the Family Tree..

 

[amitchhikara]

Chikkara sahab ...... we live in a society .. and Jat society is the integral part of being a Jat .. Its our customs that give us the Jat values .... why do we have to change our cutoms .. just because following customs means backwardness ... in my humble opinion only to those who have an inferiority complex .. not to me ....

Lets learn something form teh Jews .. its theri culture and value and strict adherence to it that makes them so powerful and dominating ...

And yes if you have not noticed there has always been an anti-Jat bias .... people have a prejudice

Just last month I met a Half-marwadi Half English lad who has just launched a hi-end fashion and lifestyle magazine in Northern Europe .... and it was a business meeting ... during the course of lunch he asked me .. where are you from in India ..... I said Haryana ....... so he asked me are you a Jat .. I said yes ....... and he said the way you are dressed and the way you talk .. I would have never guessed that you were a Jat ........ and I told him I find it rather insulting and a not a compliment ...... and you should have seen his face ... he was trying to make it up to me the whole rest of the meeting

He was half-british and lived most fo his life in the UK .. but his marwadi side of the family still fed him the Jat steroetype ........

I have many stories like this .. when people say .. I couldn't have guessed you are a Jat .... and this bias is as a result of the the anti-Jat sentiment and conspiracy

If i believe in something ....... i fight for it .. I am not a Thali ka baingan ... I stick to what i believe in

Agreeing to the fact that some of our JAT customs might no longer be practical in today's world will not make any of us any less JATS. The argument that these are age old, tried and tested customs and should be followed with a blindfold just doesn't sit well with me. No new toughts or ideas would ever take place if we just simply kept following old ones.

Don't get me wrong i am as proud a JAT as any but i have no problems with acknowleding that not all JAT customs and practices make perfect sense. We can definitely stand to make more progress if were open to modifications and changes for the good of our own society. We as JATS would make much more progress if we didn't have such big egos and were more receptive to changes that make sense in the long run for our own community.

 

[hdsura]

There is bragging about value, but, if I were to go by the content herein I don't see any value. Sorry Man, but it's cheap.

In the example, the response really reinforced the Guys already biased opinion. On the face the Guy was nice, but, internally might be think what an A* H*.

Sorry man I didn't mean to offend anyone, it is just a flip side observation.

And yes if you have not noticed there has always been an anti-Jat bias .... people have a prejudice

Just last month I met a Half-marwadi Half English lad who has just launched a hi-end fashion and lifestyle magazine in Northern Europe .... and it was a business meeting ... during the course of lunch he asked me .. where are you from in India ..... I said Haryana ....... so he asked me are you a Jat .. I said yes ....... and he said the way you are dressed and the way you talk .. I would have never guessed that you were a Jat ........ and I told him I find it rather insulting and a not a compliment ...... and you should have seen his face ... he was trying to make it up to me the whole rest of the meeting

He was half-british and lived most fo his life in the UK .. but his marwadi side of the family still fed him the Jat steroetype ........

I have many stories like this .. when people say .. I couldn't have guessed you are a Jat .... and this bias is as a result of the the anti-Jat sentiment and conspiracy

If i believe in something ....... i fight for it .. I am not a Thali ka baingan ... I stick to what i believe in

 

[kharub]

Guys..if you go back to origins of humans, everybody would have same ancestors..not sure how these gotras came into being within same community..we say that Manu created the different classes viz. shudras, khatriyas, brahmins and Vaishya..so initially people in india got divided on the basis of these classes..then further various sub-castes got into being and within those various gotras..so how come marrying in same gotra is genetically wrong? How come the genes of people from same ancestors got divided and so much different that marrying within same gotra is termed a potential medical problem?

And if genetics was the main reason then why don't see a lot of genetically challanged muslims, they marry far closer in the relations than the Jats in this particular case..


Apart from genetics, if their is any cultural reason for these customs, what are they? If its just about not marrying within close relations of sisters/brothers, everybody would be sister/brother eventually if you go back in the Family Tree..

Prashant Bhai look at the Parsi community ........ they have the highest rate of bith deformity and an exceptionally high rate of mental disorders ... i.e mentally challenged children ..... because they intermarry

Muslims are a very diverse lot and they do not intermarry as much as Parsis so it is not so easy to prove that in case of muslims because they do not have the same gene pool

 

[kharub]

Agreeing to the fact that some of our JAT customs might no longer be practical in today's world will not make any of us any less JATS. The argument that these are age old, tried and tested customs and should be followed with a blindfold just doesn't sit well with me. No new toughts or ideas would ever take place if we just simply kept following old ones.

Don't get me wrong i am as proud a JAT as any but i have no problems with acknowleding that not all JAT customs and practices make perfect sense. We can definitely stand to make more progress if were open to modifications and changes for the good of our own society. We as JATS would make much more progress if we didn't have such big egos and were more receptive to changes that make sense in the long run for our own community.

Chikkara Bhai sahab, just because you do not clearly understand them and the logic behind them does not mean that the customs do not make sense .. Customs did not just happen they have a firm logic and traditions underlining them ....... so rather then dismissing them maybe the emphasis should be on understanding them and the logic behind them a bit better

I am not doubting your Jathood ...... but leaving the tradition behind is not what is meant by being modern ..... it means moving forward with traditions

 

[kharub]

There is bragging about value, but, if I were to go by the content herein I don't see any value. Sorry Man, but it's cheap.

In the example, the response really reinforced the Guys already biased opinion. On the face the Guy was nice, but, internally might be think what an A* H*.

Sorry man I didn't mean to offend anyone, it is just a flip side observation.

Well you have a right to think what you want ...... I do not state my opinion and stories to impress people ....... I do it because i want to .. i am not selling my self .. so i was neither trying to be cheap nor expensive .. whatever opinion you hold does not bother me

Where was the bragging ?? and what was about values ??

I think you misunderstood me .......... but that does not bother me ... i know what i meant to say and thats all that matters to me

What would you rather have me say .. Oh Thank you I am so flattered that i dont seem like a Jat ..... thats a great compliment ......... I cant see your logic sorry .....

I dont kiss peoples bottoms ... because it comes with being a Jat .. and if confidence gets interpretted as arrogance then its the percievers fault and not mine