http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ers-jawans-at-nyoma-leh-started/1/188444.html
This portrays a sad state of affairs in the only remaining institution that people can be proud of. I hope that rather than punishing the unit, appropriate steps will be taken in view of changed values and the reality of today.
Army personnel (both Officers and Jawans) needs training on stress management to avoid such incidents.
Agree with this general statement.
But any Jawan can't see their commanding officer (rank of Lt. Col/Col), being beaten up by young monkey generation officers (Lt./Cap), just because they assumed he's taking sides of Jawans while trying to pacify both sides in handling the matter. A CO, is the head of the battalion, and any attack on him, by his own monkey juniors, how can a jawan be silent on this.
This is a serious act of indiscipline, and we'll see a series of court martials, if the matter is investigated properly, without any biasness. (be it for jawans or for the officers)
Update on the same issue, as anticipated by me.
Dark side of Army: Soft on officers, harsh on jawans
Five soldiers are being sacked, another four will face court martial under "disciplinary action". Three JCOs are to face "disciplinary action" .
while four officers, including the unit commanding officer (CO), will face mere "administrative action" for the unrest that was triggered in the 16th Light Cavalry unit after a soldier, Arun V, shot himself with his service rifle on August 8, 2012 in Samba.
Further reading: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/18963275.cms
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1. This is further a blow on the morale of already low moral-ed jawan's.
2. Because report is prepared by officers, investigation is done by officers, judgement is given by officers.
3. Sends clearly a strong indirect message from Officer party to jawan party: "Baap baap hota hai"... "we are the rulers".
If my memory serves correctly. Mr. Fateh has served in JAG branch of Indian Army. Wish he could throw some light from his invaluable experiences. (of-course, in a polite way)
For other readers knowledge: JAG Branch: Is a legal and judicial branch of Indian Army, That provide provide legal help to the military in all aspects, in particular advising the presiding of courts-martial on military law.
1 Satinder, since you know that fateh is an ex army officer, than calling him mr fateh is wrong, also as per our calture we donot call our elders by first name, so i politely request you to amend your conduct in your interest.
2 secondly dear I did not serve in JAG branch, ofcourse I am an Advocate for last many years, delt many legal cases in army, had been jt director legal in Delhi and handled service matters upto Suprime court, drafted present NCC Act and Rules and had been Registrar of CAT OF MP, i DO HAVE SOME LEGAL KNOWLEDGE,
3 But dear when people already have salt in their mouth/strong baised feelings in their mind, than there is no use of any views because people are not ready to listen/accept the facts, Also I am not aware of the fact of the incident thus it is not correct to comment, however few general points are submitted.
a) most of our brothers at jatland think that these incidents are taking place mainly due to employment of jawans as sahayaks, taking unauthorized work and ill treatment by officers, but I tell you it not so, may be one odd case due to above reason. I retired in 2000, so not in touch with the situation, but still I FEEL ARMY IS BATTER MANAGED IN ALL RESPECT, EVEN MUCH BATTER THAN NAVY AND AIRFORCE, state of discipline in army is much batter than any organization in civil and defance, and subordinates are treated much batter. b) legal system is quite good in defance services, it is faster, but if some body wants, it can be misused easily, it is noticed in some cases that final decision is taken even before inquiry takes place, starting from detailing inquiring officer, detailment of rep of JAG, Presiding officer and members of courtmartial including confirmation by higher authority can be influenced and managed the desired outcome, but not in all cases. But now in these days Defance services also have CAT where civil advocates are allowed from both sides so some positive effect will be there, also now in these days service cases are more open for media also.regards
Dear All,
Like I said earlier, it is a very complicated subject and there is no way one can answer questions by learned members on this particular subject in a forum like this. I believe I can answer all the genuine questions. But I can’t answer questions like; Fauj mein officer or jawan mein fark kyon hai? Fauj mein sahayak kyon hain? Officer apne sahayak se ghar ka kaam karvaate hain ya nahin? Karvate hain to kyon karvate hain? You see one can’t challenge the fundamentals of an organization. There are so many why’s that have no answer. Even in trying to start answering the logic behind as to why the Fauj functions the way it does, I will have to write about 100 pages. I am sorry but I don’t have that much free time. I work six days a week and put in about 12 hours of work daily. But I can’t disappoint you all and I must tell you an incident that happened in 1992 in North Sikkim.
I was then a Major and an Infantry company commander. We had been redeployed from an area that had a day average of minus five degree Celsius to a place that had day temperature of 35 degree Celsius. In short we were miserable when we arrived in the training area. We were to exercise ‘deep infiltration in mountains’ and had to be in that area for 45 days or so. One of my Jawan wanted to go on leave and as per orders he reported so to his platoon Havaldar, who refused saying that leave is curtailed due to the impending test exercise. Let us name the Jawan ABC. The same day during my evening round I found ABC sad and morose. I called him aside and asked him what his problem was? He said his younger sister needed medical treatment and he needed to go on leave. He was a good Jawan and I gave him 60 days leave. He had no money on him and we somehow collected about 10 grand and gave him. Time passes and now the scene shifts to North Sikkim. ABC now comes back from leave and he has come 15 days late. But he asks for another month of leave because now his mother needs treatment. I regularize his leave after consulting my commanding officer and send him on a months leave. ABC comes back after a month but this time he has lost his Military Identity Card. I only ask him one question “ABC, what kind of a soldier you are. You have been on leave for over three months when rest of the company was sweating it out. And now you come back after losing your ID card? You should be ashamed.” One hour after this he shoots himself in his stomach. He is rushed to the make shift hospital that dot our border areas. He is operated upon by a doctor who was drunk. There is no anesthetist. The electricity fails during operation. The Fauji generator doesn’t start. I use a foot driven pump. He is saved. He is sent to a Military Hospital in Kolkata. His psycho profiling is done and he is found unsuitable for military service. He is boarded out of the Army. And because ABC tried to commit suicide a court of inquiry was conducted and questions asked about my ‘leadership qualities’. Ban lyo Fauj mein afsar!!!
The story is NOT yet over. ABC committed suicide one year after being boarded out on medical grounds.
Best regards,
JS Malik
HA--------------BEAUTIFUL, I see no need of practicle knowldge and experience, the above question/answers are enough to benifit brothers on the forum, such people must join defance service but the present system of selection may not select such intelligent extra ordinary creatures, brother siwach tell me honestly, was the call to faujis for learning/clearification or get them involved and find faults in them and ultimately insult them....
May be, quite possible....present such intelligent extra ordinary creatures have realized lately, it's better to pursue a 'career' where intelligence is respected, recognized, acknowledged, rewarded, groomed, admired, listened, provides exponential growth opportunities.
So understood selectors, hence the criteria of 'certain level of intelligence' took a backseat there. And this is what happens when you recruit little less than average intelligent, back backbenchers as officers.
What to talk about officers, such so called intelligent are not fit to become even jawan in defance service, and by chance such people come in by short circuiting the system than either they are throughn out by seniors or killed by juniors, so such people shouldnot dare to look towards defance service, such people may have to seven birth to be in the defance of the country. defance services need simple, honest, hardworking, dedicated, sincere, couragious, physically and mentally fit and a balanced personalty, not like--------.defance needs jats not-----.Donot worry you wouldnot get this honour atlist in this life, if you really have some portion of soldier in you, why donot face in person why are you spoiling the forum by your unjat like activities, If you can insult a true soldier like jagmohan, you can insult even your father, so please excuse me atlist
Dear All,
........
But I can’t answer questions like;...... Fauj mein sahayak kyon hain? Officer apne sahayak se ghar ka kaam karvaate hain ya nahin? Karvate hain to kyon karvate hain?
Best regards,
JS Malik
Talk on topic, not on 'such people'.
(my previous reply was on your such 'illogical thoughts' for 'such people')
And don't bring Jagmohanji into your illogical talks, for jat's sake. He command a different respect than you. Don't compare yourself with him. He's a respected jatlander.
(btw..the present day 'intelligent' youth is not willing to join even as jawan, if the leadership is governed by such dumb, good for nothing people, let alone filling up forms for joining as officers)
The situations is so bad, that the common youth has now understood that Army want donkey's and not the horses. And so, we see the news of shortage of 'capable' officers.
It's only that at jawan level, who come from villages, the opportunities are near to zilch. The day when they also will have 'other' opportunities, you'll see such news at jawan level as well.
may god save the deterioration of the glory of Indian Army... ~Amen~.
HA--------------BEAUTIFUL, I see no need of practicle knowldge and experience, the above question/answers are enough to benifit brothers on the forum, such people must join defance service but the present system of selection may not select such intelligent extra ordinary creatures, brother siwach tell me honestly, was the call to faujis for learning/clearification or get them involved and find faults in them and ultimately insult them, once few young men with full of yougth went for a walk, en route near cremination ground they saw some unburn bons, they started laughing and said pointing towards those bones, look they were also human being, suddenly a sweat voice came from bones look God knows we were human being or animals but we were your parents,
Dear jaspreet, yes I have a long experience as an ex Army offier plus handled many legal cases in service being law qualified, first of all pardon me for not being very clear in my expression, being oldman and eye sight is also weak I find at time difficulty.Dear I have not totally discounted the reason under discussion but ment that these are not only reason and there are many more:-Fateh ji, as you are an experienced ex-Army officer, it would benefit us all if you can share your own opinions in this matter and help us understand these issues. Two questions for you-
1. You have discounted all the reasons discussed by the media and fellow members hers. So please share your own insights on what is causing such incidents of indiscipline.
2. Although a bit off topic, but you mentioned the Army is better managed than the AF or the Navy. Please also share anecdotes or corroborating facts.
F0x, you have disrespected the respected officer only, defance services are batter with shortage rather having indiscipline, disloyal, negative, ill mannered kadus like you, I am again advising you please donot force me to behave like you, from today onward you are out of book of brothers, keep yourself away in your interest please
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