How to deal with Pakistan ?

[sachinb]

Dear Col Sahab,
I got your concern. The teaching I have recieved is that "Allways Think on those Lines which your Enemy cant even Imagine."

Creation of wall I am talking to counter the infiltration problem and for those infiltrators get inside our territory and create havoc, absolutely not from the point of view of Hostile/war like conditions.

This wall can be on the similar line as the Wire Fencing on the Punjab Border. Offcourse everything can not be left to the wall it has to be manned 24/7 also.

As far as leaving the gaps in the wall and they becoming weak point, I agree, they have to be again strengthened with some active/passive means. More important thing would be that in case of real war situation how our Strike Forces would cross that wall to launch the offencives in the enemy territory , it require a lot of brainstorming sessions. Same thing the forces do while negotiating the Wire Fence on Punjab Border, the Mechanised and Armoured Regiments can get through them with ease but Infantry find it slightly difficult. Moving from predetermined places may reveal the intention of attack as well. So it require lot of thinking and planning.

Actually I was very much scared with the idea of vacating the major cities as suggested by RK uncle. I have couple of very good plots on the prime sites and dont want to vacate Delhi.

RK Uncle may like to give his input about how to make this Hindustan ki Deewar...

 

[rkumar]

Dear R K Sahab,

I am surprised after reading your posts on this issue. I find them no different than of Mr. Zaid Hamidi of Pakistan TV.

Here are a few questions you may like to answer. Assuming we accept your proposal mentioned above. Kindly elaborate on the following issues:

1. Which all cities you would like to vacate? Where these people would be accomodated? We find it difficult to vacate small goegraphical area that comes under flood, and you are talking about vacating big cities.

2. For what duration of time these cities will remain vacated? And how would you administer them? What infrastructure you require to build an efficient administration on those camps? If you are vacating these cities for the fear of Nuclear Counter Strike, then why would your enemy target these cities when it would be easier for them to target your so called camps where the population of these cities would be staying for the duration of your campaign.

3. Would it be practically possible for you to keep the location of these vacated people secret in current day scenario, where satallite pictures can pick up even small targets on earth.

4. How about villages and small cities? Do you think the life of people living in villages and small towns is less important/ expensive than those living in big cities.

5. What is the duration of your campaign? How much force level you would be needing to capture entire Pakistan? and from where that force level will come from?

6. What you are going to deploy on your Chineese borders and Bangladesh borders to counter any invation of any power that might like to assist Pakistan in an all out war where Nuclear option is preferred.

7. Once you eliminate entire Pakistan area with Nuclear strikes, how are you going to administer that? What about Nuclear residual radiations which will last for decades if not centuries?

There would be enormous questions one has to answer before resorting to the action that you are suggesting.

It is not a political speech one is giving to garner popular support to win an election, it is not a movie or a TV show for that matter.

If this suggestion comes from a "Aaam Aadmi" who does not understand the complexities of the Nuclear option, that is understood. Coming from a highly educated person like yourself, really surprises me Sir.

Tavathia Sahab,

I agree, my solution is not perfect or anywhere near. However, does anyone know what is the best solution when Jihadis are talking of 1000 cuts? For a moment let us assume that Jihadis attack us again. Won't we go to war ? Will we be able to resist war next time? Pakistan will again blackmail us with a nuclear attack. Will we keep getting blackmailed? That means we have no option but be ready for any possible nuclear attack by Pakistan whenever we go on an all out war. How do we prepare India for a nuclear attack from Pakistan ? Are we sure that Pakistan will never attack us with nuclear bombs if we go on a war ? I am under no illusions that some day or the other India will have to face nuclear war from Pakistan. Sooner we prepare better it will be for India. Wall on border is not going to save us from nuclear attacks. We have to come out with a plan under such attacks. Whether we vacate the cities or make underground bunkers, is the only solutions. Let me put a hypothetical question. Let us assume we are on war and Pakistan just announces that she will nuke Delhi. Don't you think people will rush out in all directions and no government will be able to stop them? What will we do in such a scenario? Do we leave it Pakistan to create panic in our cities or we plan for this ? Wisdom would be that we think and plan for the worst. It would be naive on the part of our defense planners that Pakistan won’t use nuclear weapons against India. Yes it would be a very difficult task to vacate the cities, however, do we have alternative when we have an enemy who talks of using nuclear weapons. I would like your answer in a situation when Pakistani army issues a warning that they would nuke Delhi. Let us assume you were residing in Delhi at that time. What would you do ? Will you be able to convince others not to leave Delhi ?

RK^2

 

[rkumar]

These days I find lot of creative minds on YouTube. Here is a guy who calls himself "Mullah666". Here is the link to one of his video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_CtlWdNt6w&feature=channel_page

RK^2

 

[sachinb]

I wanted to carry out the cost analysis about this Hindustan ki Deewaar which we are suggesting to stop infiltration on the borders..

Can somebody provide some technical details like width of the wall, height of the wall kind of stuff to be used for making this wall. mere khyala se 6-7 hazar km lambi to kam se kam ye deewar banegi hi

Also cost of putting up Signages as suggested by Sunita Ji "Latak Mat....Patak Dungi",,i found it best..

Lets discuss this so that Nuclear war can be avoided

 

[anilsangwan]

I have one suggestion Sachin bhai.... width of deewar should be such that one militry jeep can ply on it..... this will help sending ammunition and other importnat things on check post...

And yes, there should be no gates etc.. if needed, jo deewar se aage ki taraf ki zameen hogi... hum uss Zameen par kaanteydaar jhaaddiyon k beej baga saktey hain!! Then it will be 3 stage security... First kaanteydaaar Jhaddiyan... fir deewar... and third Bumb er Golley liye apne desh k Sainik...

iss mhaan deewar ka naam bhi soch lyo ebb !!!

I wanted to carry out the cost analysis about this Hindustan ki Deewaar which we are suggesting to stop infiltration on the borders..

Can somebody provide some technical details like width of the wall, height of the wall kind of stuff to be used for making this wall. mere khyala se 6-7 hazar km lambi to kam se kam ye deewar banegi hi

Also cost of putting up Signages as suggested by Sunita Ji "Latak Mat....Patak Dungi",,i found it best..

Lets discuss this so that Nuclear war can be avoided

 

[sachinb]

Theek hai Sangwan Bhai.....Deewar ki width itni chauri banvaange ki Jeep araam se chale,,,,

Jhaar-bojhre aala aapka sujhaav bahut hi jabardast laga mujhe,,,,inme te Pakistani ugarwaadiyo ka nikalna mushkil ho jaayega,,,,,

Koye issa aadmi nahi se ke JL pe jo ek rough estimate bata de kharche-paani ka,,,,,,,

Nuclear attack te to yu deewar banan ki option theek laagya,,,,,bhai nyu bata je main Delhi ne Vacate bi kar dyu,,,,to bi Rohtak jaana padega,,,,,ar bhai hum to dilli ke inten najdeek saa,,,ke Nuclear attack ke bhuphaara mein e mar lyaange,,,,radiation bhot dur tain jaa se uska.....

arr je baga diya Pakistan ne Nuclear Bomb kite,,,Peera-garhi ar Mundke dhore,,,,,bhai mhaara to kuchh bhed bi naa paave kisse ne

 

[amitgahlawat]

Sachin thara matlab...dholley kaantya aali kabli keekar tai sai k

Theek hai Sangwan Bhai.....Deewar ki width itni chauri banvaange ki Jeep araam se chale,,,,

Jhaar-bojhre aala aapka sujhaav bahut hi jabardast laga mujhe,,,,inme te Pakistani ugarwaadiyo ka nikalna mushkil ho jaayega,,,,,

Koye issa aadmi nahi se ke JL pe jo ek rough estimate bata de kharche-paani ka,,,,,,,

Nuclear attack te to yu deewar banan ki option theek laagya,,,,,bhai nyu bata je main Delhi ne Vacate bi kar dyu,,,,to bi Rohtak jaana padega,,,,,ar bhai hum to dilli ke inten najdeek saa,,,ke Nuclear attack ke bhuphaara mein e mar lyaange,,,,radiation bhot dur tain jaa se uska.....

arr je baga diya Pakistan ne Nuclear Bomb kite,,,Peera-garhi ar Mundke dhore,,,,,bhai mhaara to kuchh bhed bi naa paave kisse ne

 

[rajpawariya]

Rk Sir, Over a period, we have developed OSTRICH ATTITUDE. Ouestions you have placed, will not be answered by anyone so easily. Postponing the problem has ingrained in our psychy. I agree with you. We should nip the problem in bud. The more we delay, the bigger it will grow. We can not live in constant fear and beer repeated humiliation. Too much analysis also leads to inaction. Action is must, but see what govt of India is doing? Samjhota express and Sadbhavna Bus still runing, 622 paki prisoners have been freed yesterday. I failed to understand what our govt want to do? We want that USA, China, Saudi....... should solve our problem. What a pity? With this psychy, we progressed lot and became SONE KI CHIDIYA but lost our fighting instinct. Result? Everything was plundered by so called uncivilised races (Mughals, Muslims, Hoons, Afghans & Agrej etc) and made us enslave for thousands of years. Nation without fighting and killing instinct won't survive for long. Don't ponder too much, Act, only Act in a firm and decisive way!!!!!!!!!

 

[sachinb]

Kaabli keekar to Amit Bhai hum Bheet ke aapne od ne laavaange....uska bi logic se,,,,,ke bychance koyi Ugarwaadi Bheet cross karke aabi jaa to India kaani kudati haan,,,,kaabli keekar mein fans jyaagaa,,,

Vaise bhai hum saare dhaal ke kaante aale ped padhe laan ki soch rhe saan,,,,like there r so many deadly varieties of cactus family,,,,,,,,,,,,,dusri ek aur cheej mhaare dimaag mein se ke,,,,,koye is type ki jhaari laayi jaa jo aag jaldi pakad le,,,,,,,je Pakistan attack karan laag jyaa to hum un jhaariyaan mein aag laa dyaange,,,,,and for everybody's information Pakistani soldiers are very scared of getting death by Burns,,,some religious reasons are behind....

The crux of this whole suggestion is that we want to come out with such a solution because of which Nuclear war can be averted,,,,and the suggestion of building a wall has been approved by many JL members....

So after initial discussions on the subject now we are under the process of evaluating its cost and making effective designs,,,

Bhai we just require your Good Wishes.....:rock

Sachin thara matlab...dholley kaantya aali kabli keekar tai sai k

 

[rkumar]

Next Indo-Pak war

As per various intelligence reports Pakistan has trained about 10-15,000 LeT Jihadis who can reach almost any Indian city and wage a Mumbai style war. Think of a scenario when India and Pakistan go on a conventional war and 10,000 Jihadis enter about 50-100 Indian cities. Is there anyone in our defense establishment who can educate us on the type of war that will be ? Do we have enough forces to fight in every city and town and also on the border ? Are we prepared for such type of wars ? High time our defense planners wake up and prepare for totally new type of war which has never been seen and fought anywhere in the world. If we don’t take necessary steps, next war will be fought all over India and on borders. We can never win such a war unless each and every Indian is mentally conditioned and physically prepared.

RK^2

 

[amitgahlawat]

Uncle....why dont we open our academy to train youth to get arms training to fight jehadis

As per various intelligence reports Pakistan has trained about 10-15,000 LeT Jihadis who can reach almost any Indian city and wage a Mumbai style war. Think of a scenario when India and Pakistan go on a conventional war and 10,000 Jihadis enter about 50-100 Indian cities. Is there anyone in our defense establishment who can educate us on the type of war that will be ? Do we have enough forces to fight in every city and town and also on the border ? Are we prepared for such type of wars ? High time our defense planners wake up and prepare for totally new type of war which has never been seen and fought anywhere in the world. If we don’t take necessary steps, next war will be fought all over India and on borders. We can never win such a war unless each and every Indian is mentally conditioned and physically prepared.

RK^2

 

[anilsangwan]

Uncle ji..

Nyu bata dyo... aap India kaani so ek pakistaan kaani??

Kayi din tein aap ne dara dara k mhara khaana peena bandh kar raakha sei...

Aawan dyo unn 15000 Jehaadiyaan ne....... Baga k maarangey Deewaar k upper ke parli-odd jhaaddiyaan mein.... :rock

As per various intelligence reports Pakistan has trained about 10-15,000 LeT Jihadis who can reach almost any Indian city and wage a Mumbai style war. Think of a scenario when India and Pakistan go on a conventional war and 10,000 Jihadis enter about 50-100 Indian cities. Is there anyone in our defense establishment who can educate us on the type of war that will be ? Do we have enough forces to fight in every city and town and also on the border ? Are we prepared for such type of wars ? High time our defense planners wake up and prepare for totally new type of war which has never been seen and fought anywhere in the world. If we don’t take necessary steps, next war will be fought all over India and on borders. We can never win such a war unless each and every Indian is mentally conditioned and physically prepared.

RK^2

 

[sachinb]

Jaisa ki aapne kahaa thaa....Sangwan Bhai the wall which we have planned to make on the International Border will be named as:-

"Khundi Bheet"

There are some logics behind naming Hindustan ki Deewar as Khundi Bheet, one reason is that it will BLUNT(Khunda) all the Pakistani attacks, and the other reason for naming it so are very seceret in nature and you very well know,,,,,aaj desh ke halaat bade naajuk hain aur hamein koyi bhi seceret dushman tak nahi pahunchane deni.....

aage se hum is deewar ko Khundi Bheet ke naam se jaanenge,,,,,,jo ki bahut jald Jag Parsid hone waali hai aur desh ki suraksha mein ek naya adhaay likhegi

 

[anilsangwan]

"Khundi Bheet"

Ha ha ha ha ha ha... bhai I know the second reason for KHUNDI bheet.......

iss samay (KAAL) mein yeh sabb se baddi uplabdhi hogi india k liye... KHUNDI BHEET...

 

[sachinb]

To hum garv se kah sakte hain Sangwan Bhai ki saal-2008 ki mukhya uplabh-dhiyaa niman-likhit thi:-

1. ASBP ka gathan aur uska Vishva-patal par ubharna
2. JVM ko aam Janta ka samrthan milna
3. Saal ke ant mein Khundi Bheet ka nirmaan

Ha ha ha ha ha ha... bhai I know the second reason for KHUNDI bheet.......

iss samay (KAAL) mein yeh sabb se baddi uplabdhi hogi india k liye... KHUNDI BHEET...

 

[amitgahlawat]

Ballu....iss khundi bheet ki lambaayi ko dekhtey huay kayi jagah ribbon kaata jayega......u knw udghatann ki liye..........ek bigull ka intejaam kara lena....jaise hi bigul ki toootri si bolle....sarey neta/celebrity apni-apni kainchi le ke ribbon aatney lag jayeinaur iss shubh avsarr par aap PATASSEY bantwaogey ya BAAKLI

To hum garv se kah sakte hain Sangwan Bhai ki saal-2008 ki mukhya uplabh-dhiyaa niman-likhit thi:-

1. ASBP ka gathan aur uska Vishva-patal par ubharna
2. JVM ko aam Janta ka samrthan milna
3. Saal ke ant mein Khundi Bheet ka nirmaan

 

[raj2rif]

There are Options!!!

Tavathia Sahab,

I agree, my solution is not perfect or anywhere near. However, does anyone know what is the best solution when Jihadis are talking of 1000 cuts? For a moment let us assume that Jihadis attack us again. Won't we go to war ? Will we be able to resist war next time? Pakistan will again blackmail us with a nuclear attack. Will we keep getting blackmailed? That means we have no option but be ready for any possible nuclear attack by Pakistan whenever we go on an all out war. How do we prepare India for a nuclear attack from Pakistan ? Are we sure that Pakistan will never attack us with nuclear bombs if we go on a war ? I am under no illusions that some day or the other India will have to face nuclear war from Pakistan. Sooner we prepare better it will be for India. Wall on border is not going to save us from nuclear attacks. We have to come out with a plan under such attacks. Whether we vacate the cities or make underground bunkers, is the only solutions. Let me put a hypothetical question. Let us assume we are on war and Pakistan just announces that she will nuke Delhi. Don't you think people will rush out in all directions and no government will be able to stop them? What will we do in such a scenario? Do we leave it Pakistan to create panic in our cities or we plan for this ? Wisdom would be that we think and plan for the worst. It would be naive on the part of our defense planners that Pakistan won’t use nuclear weapons against India. Yes it would be a very difficult task to vacate the cities, however, do we have alternative when we have an enemy who talks of using nuclear weapons. I would like your answer in a situation when Pakistani army issues a warning that they would nuke Delhi. Let us assume you were residing in Delhi at that time. What would you do ? Will you be able to convince others not to leave Delhi ?

RK^2

Dear R K Sahab, (and Mr. Pawaria Sahab: since you feel no one can answer the questions raised by Dr. R K)

1. I have not said that we take no action. What I have been debating on this thread is your enthusiasm of using the Nuclear Weapon as the first option rather than the last option. And the complexities of using a nuclear weapon.

2. You have raised an issue about the incompetence of the Indian Defense Planners. The problem is that most people who don't have as deep knowledge as the senior defense officers have, come out with ready made solutions. Some of these solutions are also appealing to general public who think that international issues are one minute solutions.

3. Your question about if "Pakistan makes a statement to Nuke New Delhi". Firstly, it is not like making an abusive statement in a neighborhood fight like "Sale Main Tera Munh tod dunga" type statement. It requires a lot of courage to make that kind of statment seriously. I would not leave New Delhi in that situation. Why? It is one thing making a statement and it is entirely different thing using a Nuclear weapon by a Government. Yes terror organizations can do any thing. But the problem of using Nuclear Weapons is the delivery means, those match the particual pay load. I am sure our people responsible for the national defense have means to make a pre-emptive strike in such a scenario.

4. Islamic world is the one that supports Pakistan's nuclear program, for it was built as an Islamic Bomb. Lot many nations of middle east had provided financial support to Pakistani government in this program. Islamic world has to think twice before using a nuclear weapon against India, because of the density of Islamic population in India. Essentially, the Pakistani Nuclear Bomb has more to do to counter the Israeli, nuclear capabilities that may be used against other Islamic Nations. While Pak possesses that capability it can always be used against any nation when the question comes of survival. Again a responsible government would not use it. It is precisesly because of this reason, a stable Pakistan with a responsible government would be more useful for the peace in region than a volatile Pakistan with a weak and irresponsible administration. Unfortunately, historically, military and ISI is Pakistan has been more powerful then the elected governments.

5. Solution:

a. We need to have a time line with Pakistan, to eliminate the terror camps on her soil.

b. If they don't do it, we should do it. Whether that takes a surgical air operation, limited ground operations supported by air and navy, or it is a full scale war.

c. The ball is in Pakistani Government's court. We should give them a little breathing time, but no more.

d. Economic sanctions, and Naval Blockade is another option. We should join the US efforts in Afghanistan, to pressurise the terror groups in NWFP of Pakistan, as well as have more operations in Kashmir, on either side of LC to wipe out the terror organizations.

e. Speedy execution of people who have taken up arms against the government has to be done.

f. Internally, we must enforce unified civil code for all races living in India. We all must ensure that we are Indians first and Hindus, Muslims, Christians and Sikhs later. Unfortunately, our leaders have further divided the public to Chamars, SC, ST, Jats, Brahmins, Madrasi, Bangali, Punjabi and so on. The list is never ending. We are also responsible for this state of affairs.

Experienced people like Mr. Pawaria, and yourself both live in UP. What is happening in UP in the term of Money Extortion in the name of Birthday celebrations of CM is shameful and much more harmful then any terror attacks. So many people like PWD engineer Manoj Gupta get un-noticed in our country every day. I am sure the PWD Engineer in question must be misusing his own power, and may deserve little sympathy, but then the corruption is so much and needs to be addressed ASAP.

Once we eliminate corruption, then it will be very difficult for foreign terror organizations to operate, and it will be easy for our Law and order machinary and Security Forces to Counter them.

For the time being, I am closing my reply. Rest in next post.

Mr. Pawaria: I don't think I am the right person to give a solution. We all can discuss our views. I have made an honest attempt to analyze the problem and give one of the answer to R K Sir's question. I hope it helps.

 

[nishantrathi82]

You have raised an issue about the incompetence of the Indian Defense Planners. The problem is that most people who don't have as deep knowledge as the senior defense officers have, come out with ready made solutions. Some of these solutions are also appealing to general public who think that international issues are one minute solutions.

Dear Sir Mumbai attack i beleive is the biggest failure of India Navy and govt. Don't you think if our Marine forces were not in a sleep that can be avoided atlest they won't be able to come through water way.

Solution:

a. We need to have a time line with Pakistan, to eliminate the terror camps on her soil.

How long sir i think we are waiting from last 40 years! Is in't enough time?

b. If they don't do it, we should do it. Whether that takes a surgical air operation, limited ground operations supported by air and navy, or it is a full scale war.

Sir in that case also Nuclear war can come in picture. So is there any difference between RK sir's suggestions and urs sir?

c. The ball is in Pakistani Government's court. We should give them a little breathing time, but no more.

Let see sir but i think we r giving them time to plan another Mumbai kind of Attack.

d. Economic sanctions, and Naval Blockade is another option. We should join the US efforts in Afghanistan, to pressurise the terror groups in NWFP of Pakistan, as well as have more operations in Kashmir, on either side of LC to wipe out the terror organizations.

Might work in correct way

e. Speedy execution of people who have taken up arms against the government has to be done.

Best one

f. Internally, we must enforce unified civil code for all races living in India. We all must ensure that we are Indians first and Hindus, Muslims, Christians and Sikhs later. Unfortunately, our leaders have further divided the public to Chamars, SC, ST, Jats, Brahmins, Madrasi, Bangali, Punjabi and so on. The list is never ending. We are also responsible for this state of affairs.

Leaders another kind of terrorists rulling our contry better to deal with them intially then with pak.

Experienced people like Mr. Pawaria, and yourself both live in UP. What is happening in UP in the term of Money Extortion in the name of Birthday celebrations of CM is shameful and much more harmful then any terror attacks. So many people like PWD engineer Manoj Gupta get un-noticed in our country every day. I am sure the PWD Engineer in question must be misusing his own power, and may deserve little sympathy, but then the corruption is so much and needs to be addressed ASAP.

Sir again same terrorists(Politicians) more dangerours than Pakistan.

Once we eliminate corruption, then it will be very difficult for foreign terror organizations to operate, and it will be easy for our Law and order machinary and Security Forces to Counter them.

Yes sir First and immediate step need to take is to eliminate corrution or eliminate these politicians.

For the time being, I am closing my reply. Rest in next post.

Mr. Pawaria: I don't think I am the right person to give a solution. We all can discuss our views. I have made an honest attempt to analyze the problem and give one of the answer to R K Sir's question. I hope it helps.

Thanks and Great solutions sir hope someone in Govt. will get same type of idea's. Sorry Sir i have marked some of ur points i m not as intelligent and experienced like u people but still put my views with honesty.

 

[ssgoyat]

Dear R K Sahab,

I am surprised after reading your posts on this issue. I find them no different than of Mr. Zaid Hamidi of Pakistan TV.
………………
If this suggestion comes from a "Aaam Aadmi" who does not understand the complexities of the Nuclear option, that is understood. Coming from a highly educated person like yourself, really surprises me Sir.
……………………………
You have raised an issue about the incompetence of the Indian Defense Planners. The problem is that most people who don't have as deep knowledge as the senior defense officers have, come out with ready made solutions. Some of these solutions are also appealing to general public who think that international issues are one minute solutions.

i liked your views on the topic except the one's, quoted above.

Let everybody have their say...(fundamental right )

Cheers !!!

 

[sampuran]

If things were that simple .......

frienship is the solution................................

Who do you have friendship with, in Pakistan ?


What Khalkhandeji says is logical. Cease all contacts, warn foregners to leave, keep forces ready to march in and nuke everything of military significance in co-operation with China, US and Russia.. incl madarssas. Thereafter give the same choice to the pakis as thier prophet gave to 'kafir' - jhatka-heaven or Saudi citizenship or welcome to Arya Samaaj! As long as they are islamic, they'll remain a cancerous threat to the world.