How to deal with Pakistan ?

[sampuran]

Islamic world has to think twice before using a nuclear weapon against India, because of the density of Islamic population in India.

Col Saheb, Quite a wrong assumption. Historically, Islamic expansionists have neverbothered about numberof believers killed as long as purpose of jihad against the kafirs is served.
The 2nd Kaliph was asked by a rich man,"I have lot of money. What should Iuse it for charity for the needy momin or jehad." And the reply was'"Those who are destined to die will die and go to heaven (because they are believers in allah). But the flag of jehad has to keep spreading. And thats the best for a muslim."
Since then, they are happy as long as kafirs are getting killed, even if believers are also killed. Why would they bomb their own masjids ?

Essentially, the Pakistani Nuclear Bomb has more to do to counter the Israeli, nuclear capabilities that may be used against other Islamic Nations. While Pak possesses that capability it can always be used against any nation when the question comes of survival. Again a responsible government would not use it.

It is precisesly because of this reason, a stable Pakistan with a responsible government would be more useful for the peace in region than a volatile Pakistan with a weak and irresponsible administration. .

A democratically elected responsible and stable govt of Benajir Bhutto started the jehad in kashmir. It was the infamous (you can find it on the net) that led to announcements from the PA systems of mosques all over the valley "Hindus leave your women and run for your life."

As long as Pakistan (or any other country) survives as an islamic state, neighbours will always in danger.

Case in point is a Mlayasia. Under the Bhumiputra scheme, only muslims are given preference for evrything from govt jobs to contracts. The no of non-muslim places of worship destroyed by the govt in last five years is phenominal. They have even started usurping dead papole. In 2005, one Major Nair, a mountaineer who had got paralysed below the belt, fell down from his chair and died. His paltan wallas got togethe and declared that the fellow converted to Islam two years earlier. There was no paper declaration from him, nor did he ever tell his family. His widow ran from pillar to post, Secular High Court refused to hear her appeal because it was a Sharia case. She could not go to the sharia court because she was a non-muslim.
FINALLY THE POOR WIDOW COULD NOT PERFORM THE LAST RITES OF HER OWN HUSBAND. HIS BODY WAS TAKEN AWAY BY THE ISLAMISTS.

In 2007 same thing happened after a Christian lady's death.

Both Malayasia and Indonesia are stasble countries. Ask a Singaporean, how scared are they about these neighbours>

 

[rkumar]

Tavathia Sahab,

Going into the history of Muslims and Islam is the only way you would be able to appreciate my views on the subject. How much well we think of others is important. However, more important is what others think of us. Please have a look at the following video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQts7vc0seY&feature=related

You can appreciate yourself how Muslims think of Akbar the great and how people talk of Indians in Pakistan. Till they have enmity towards us, there is no way we can sit in comfort. We have to get ready for the war any day from now on. Whether you and I wish or not, war is going to take place between India and Pakistan someday and possibility of nuclear war can not be ruled out.

RK^2

 

[amitgahlawat]

RK Ji....watched this vdo on Zaid Hamid and heard what he said about US- muh kholey bheddiye baithe hain BUT is that reason enough to be preapared for nuclear war? Sir dont you know what a war leaves behind?

Tavathia Sahab,

Going into the history of Muslims and Islam is the only way you would be able to appreciate my views on the subject. How much well we think of others is important. However, more important is what others think of us. Please have a look at the following video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQts7vc0seY&feature=related

You can appreciate yourself how Muslims think of Akbar the great and how people talk of Indians in Pakistan. Till they have enmity towards us, there is no way we can sit in comfort. We have to get ready for the war any day from now on. Whether you and I wish or not, war is going to take place between India and Pakistan someday and possibility of nuclear war can not be ruled out.

RK^2

 

[caravi2910]

I am in complete agreement with you Rajender sir, but do you really think that india is in a position(economically) to start a war with pakistan. the aftermath of war will be worst than mumbai terror attack. Indian economy isalready going through a bad phase and any kind of war will make the situation worst.

 

[sandeep5]

I am in complete agreement with you Rajender sir, but do you really think that india is in a position(economically) to start a war with pakistan. the aftermath of war will be worst than mumbai terror attack. Indian economy isalready going through a bad phase and any kind of war will make the situation worst.

Than OK, wait for some more attacks (like Mumbai 26/11) from pakistan. They will not stop this terrorism until they learn a lesson of war.

This is my personal opinion, i don't want to heart anybody's feelings. So forgive me if hurts.

 

[keshavdahiya]

send JAT regiment upfront and let J & K be a different country which can be visited without any hassles by all Pakis and Indians

 

[nishantrathi82]

send JAT regiment upfront and let J & K be a different country which can be visited without any hassles by all Pakis and Indians

No way bhai we can't left J&K its the point of our dignity and proud that's what they want. Bhai g we already lost many great people how can we let their sacrifice behind! Not agree bhai atleast i m not. Not in favour of leaving J & k at any cost. Its my personal view

 

[keshavdahiya]

No way bhai we can't left J&K its the point of our dignity and proud that's what they want. Bhai g we already lost many great people how can we let their sacrifice behind! Not agree bhai atleast i m not. Not in favour of leaving J & k at any cost. Its my personal view

well yeah nyu kyukar aaali baat-e to dobb rehi hai.....if we continue with that attitude then we shud be ready to sacrifice more lives.....after all think about the people in J & K and the beauty of the place......whats with terra merra ??
The cost of lives her and across the border are equally important.....above all the hatred and agony we shud be ready to take action someday

 

[amitgahlawat]

Dahiya Bhaiya aap ney to baat ka todd sa hi paad diya, yahan dekho na kitne seniors bhi discuss kar chukke par nuclear war k alava koyi solution nahi nikal raha tha

send JAT regiment upfront and let J & K be a different country which can be visited without any hassles by all Pakis and Indians

 

[raj2rif]

I hope it Helps!!

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Dear Sir Mumbai attack i beleive is the biggest failure of India Navy and govt. Don't you think if our Marine forces were not in a sleep that can be avoided atlest they won't be able to come through water way.

Dear Nishant,

There are two type of forces we have with in our country. One that works under ministry of defense and the other under ministry of home affairs. While both are responsible for the defense of the Nation and safety of Indian Citizens, the responsibilities are fairly clearly defined. Mumbai attacks are the failure mainly of the forces acting under the ministry of home affairs.

Unfortunately over a period of time, intelligence agencies and forces working under ministry of home affairs had been utilized more for political survival of ruling parties, keeping desents among their own party under check, and political gains. In nutshell, they have been used for the safety of the ruling parties, rather than the Nation.

It might be a good idea to have all the forces under ministry of defense, with a department with in the armed forces that deals with internal security. I would say even police force should be made a central government baby rather than the state government subject. We will see immidiate effect of that. Right now, police force is also being misused by the politicians.




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How long sir i think we are waiting from last 40 years! Is in't enough time?

We had given time to Pakistan in 1970-71, and then acted in December 1971. How much and long, depends upon the leadership in the country. But, these things are not easy to fix by any government, specially if the government is as weak as it is in Pakistan. We can debate this issue, for the exact limit of time will be again the result of individual perceptions. But so long an honest attempt is visible, it is always better to avoid a full scale war and must be given a chance.

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Sir in that case also Nuclear war can come in picture. So is there any difference between RK sir's suggestions and urs sir?

Yes, I am not proposing a nuclear war. Nuclear weapons are to be used as deterent to prevent war, rather than an instrument of war.

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Let see sir but i think we r giving them time to plan another Mumbai kind of Attack.

That has been our problem. That is what we need to ensure that it does not happen again. We need to spend money, thought and time to improve our intelligence system. We have a lot of people who will sell our country for money and by the way they are from all religions and casts.


I hope I have been able to answer your questions?

 

[raj2rif]

I have not challenged any one's fundamental right

i liked your views on the topic except the one's, quoted above.

Let everybody have their say...(fundamental right )

Cheers !!!

Dear Mr. Goyat,

I don't think I have raised an issue of challenging any one's fundamental right. I always respect people's opinion and views, and just debate them. Nuclear war is a complex issue, and I assume a person of Dr. R K Sir's experience understands the consequences of such a war more than any one else. And that is why I am surprised to read his views.

 

[raj2rif]

That is the Problem!!!!

Who do you have friendship with, in Pakistan ?


What Khalkhandeji says is logical. Cease all contacts, warn foregners to leave, keep forces ready to march in and nuke everything of military significance in co-operation with China, US and Russia.. incl madarssas. Thereafter give the same choice to the pakis as thier prophet gave to 'kafir' - jhatka-heaven or Saudi citizenship or welcome to Arya Samaaj! As long as they are islamic, they'll remain a cancerous threat to the world.

Dear Sampuran Singh Ji,

I am also recommending ceasing all the ties with Pakistan, till the time we get all the fugitives handed over to us, all the terrorists camps closed in that country and till the time we see an honest attempt by Pak govt, to normalize relations with us.

Regarding, use of nuclear weapons against military installations, that is possible using "Tactical Nuclear Weapons". Such weapons can be used in surgical manner, but then that should not be the first option. Consequences of using nuclear weapon is much more even after their use. After all we want to have peace and tranquility after any war. War is the attempt to force your will on the enemy when all other efforts have failed.

Third point you have raised is about getting China, Russia and US on our side. Simple as it might look, it is going to be the most difficult task of all. All these countries have their own national interests and unfortunately do not match with our national interests. We are having a common enemy as the US and Israel, and that is why the closeness in our relations these days. This is unlikely to go well with Russia because of their relations and rivelary with US. Similarly, China would not alienate their long standing good relations with Pakistan. So, it is under these paramenters our leaders have to work, and we all know that is not as simple as it looks.

I agree with you on the issues of Madarsas. But then let us first destroy them in our own country. Both Mulayam Singh Yadav and Mayawati will come out against such action, for the votes they get from the Islamic community. In a Nation like ours, whether we like or not we can't have "Hindus" or "Muslims", we need to have Indians. That is what the effort should be. The fundamentalists will come out with popular themes, to continue dividing us, (actually politicians are doing it successfully too). We the intellectuals have to come out of our comfort zones to educate both Hindus and Muslims to become Indians, where money and religion can't buy their honesty and nationalism.

 

[raj2rif]

These are the People we have to deal with with in Islam

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Col Saheb, Quite a wrong assumption. Historically, Islamic expansionists have neverbothered about numberof believers killed as long as purpose of jihad against the kafirs is served.
The 2nd Kaliph was asked by a rich man,"I have lot of money. What should Iuse it for charity for the needy momin or jehad." And the reply was'"Those who are destined to die will die and go to heaven (because they are believers in allah). But the flag of jehad has to keep spreading. And thats the best for a muslim."
Since then, they are happy as long as kafirs are getting killed, even if believers are also killed. Why would they bomb their own masjids ?



Dear Sampuaran Singh Ji,

These are the type of people we have to deal with in the Islam. Same Islam also has given people like our former President Dr. Abdul Kalam. Why these people have been able to spread hatered, is because of lack of education of Islamic Women. Madarsas, and Maulvis are spreading hatered against rest of the world, to make money and for their own survial. When people run out of ideas, they turn to Religion and History to raise passion among public which unfortunately gets swayed by their passionate speeches. These fundamentalists are excellent sales people and do sell their ideas to earn unflinching loyalities of the people. You can imagin their skills, that people are prepared to give their lives for them. That is the cause and not every single muslim on the face of earth. More we categorize every muslim to be identified with them, more we will help them and that is the exact point I am trying to make.

A democratically elected responsible and stable govt of Benajir Bhutto started the jehad in kashmir. It was the infamous (you can find it on the net) that led to announcements from the PA systems of mosques all over the valley "Hindus leave your women and run for your life."

As long as Pakistan (or any other country) survives as an islamic state, neighbours will always in danger.

Case in point is a Mlayasia. Under the Bhumiputra scheme, only muslims are given preference for evrything from govt jobs to contracts. The no of non-muslim places of worship destroyed by the govt in last five years is phenominal. They have even started usurping dead papole. In 2005, one Major Nair, a mountaineer who had got paralysed below the belt, fell down from his chair and died. His paltan wallas got togethe and declared that the fellow converted to Islam two years earlier. There was no paper declaration from him, nor did he ever tell his family. His widow ran from pillar to post, Secular High Court refused to hear her appeal because it was a Sharia case. She could not go to the sharia court because she was a non-muslim.
FINALLY THE POOR WIDOW COULD NOT PERFORM THE LAST RITES OF HER OWN HUSBAND. HIS BODY WAS TAKEN AWAY BY THE ISLAMISTS.

In 2007 same thing happened after a Christian lady's death.

Both Malayasia and Indonesia are stasble countries. Ask a Singaporean, how scared are they about these neighbours>

I agree with you on Ms. Bhutto's history when she came to power. But then while her's was a democratically elected government, it was not a stable government. She still had to deal with the Military Junta within Pak which since at the inception of Pakistan has remained the single most dominating factor in that country's politics. The problem is that a weak military will not be able to deal with the fundamentalists within that country, while a strong military does not allow a democratically elected government to survive. It is a delicate balance, that we have to find. May be all military aid to this country must cease. International community should help the elected government to survive against their own military.

The most important thing that the international community needs to do at this time, as I see it is the taming of ISI. This organization has become extremely powerful. We need to freez all their assets and do some thing to either make it subservient to Pakistan's elected government or completely eliminate it. I am sure for that one does not require use of nuclear weapons.

We also need to protect the rights of people in Indonesia and Malaysia. That should be done through diplomacy. Hard sanctions can bring a halt to these things in those countries. The problem there must be addressed ASAP before it becomes unmanageable.

 

[raj2rif]

That is Exactly What They Want!!!!!

Tavathia Sahab,

Going into the history of Muslims and Islam is the only way you would be able to appreciate my views on the subject. How much well we think of others is important. However, more important is what others think of us. Please have a look at the following video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQts7vc0seY&feature=related

You can appreciate yourself how Muslims think of Akbar the great and how people talk of Indians in Pakistan. Till they have enmity towards us, there is no way we can sit in comfort. We have to get ready for the war any day from now on. Whether you and I wish or not, war is going to take place between India and Pakistan someday and possibility of nuclear war can not be ruled out.

RK^2

Dear R K Sahab,

Thanks a lot for the link. It is pretty interesting information out there to ascertain the design of the terror organizations to divide the international community for their personal monetary and political gains.

Zaid Hamid is making money for sure with the kind of coverage they are giving him on the media. Let me assure you, the media is trying to sell what sells easily and make money. Unfortunately the items that raise passion are sold easily than those work in logic. Obviously seeing Akbar as a seculirist does not help them and hence their views. Akbar was a capable smart rular who realized the importance of the masses being with him rather than only military being with him. That is why he is still popular across all the religions. His successors could not hold on to his legacy and thus became the root cause of the downfall of the Mughal Empire. Aurangjeb was the chief destroyer. Actually, we in India should not have any thing named after him. What surprises me is that no one till date has objected to the road named after "Aurangjeb" in New Delhi.

My next point is that people like Zaid Hamid want you to go back to history to keep you divided. They will talk about all the wrong things done in the past, to raise your passions.

The need of the hour is to unite the entire international community, across the religious lines. Religion should be some thing that should be done in private at home. Religion has divided the communities in the past, and people want to continue doing the same. Let us deal with any one and every one who is supporting the terrorism, be it Pakistan, Saudis or for that matter any one else. That is what we need to educate people about and work on. We started with the option of using Nuclear Weapons. Well sir, nuclear war is in no one's interest. We should use all the means at our disposal and if they all fail use the conventional war, the aim of which should be destruction of the rival forces to impose a political will.

 

[amitgahlawat]

Uncle maine socha ab tak to aapne 2-4 bomb drop kara diye hongey, this is our root problem, we can just go on and on discussing things and planning n making strategies

 

[anilsangwan]

I agree with Amit bhai... we need to come in action... and same thing I saw in Pranab Mukharjee's comments today in news....

PS: some people have quoted this thread in other thread and have written that we derail the thread.... ..... see how seriously we discuss.. isnt it mods?

this is our root problem, we can just go on and on discussing things and planning n making strategies

 

[sachinb]

yes we are always very serious and always give valuable suggestions and solutions,,,,

If Nuclear war is one solution then building a Bheet you can call it by any name that doesnt matter is also one of a solution,,,,,,

For information creating wire fence was a big step in controlling militancy in Punjab,,,,,and same way we Can have this BHEET all accross the border:rock

Jai Jawan, Jai Kisaan

I agree with Amit bhai... we need to come in action... and same thing I saw in Pranab Mukharjee's comments today in news....

PS: some people have quoted this thread in other thread and have written that we derail the thread.... ..... see how seriously we discuss.. isnt it mods?

 

[anilsangwan]

Sachin bhai... lekin yeh batao ki kya kisi ne Length - breadth aur height k hisaab se kisi ne estimate kiya hai BHEET ka?

This is recession period and we should do cost-benefit analysis of this project like any other IT project.... It may happen that this is better option than nuclear strike..

Aur haan... iske tenders should be given to some good company and not any rohtak ka "pulliya" bananey wala builder .. :rock

 

[rkumar]

Tavathia Sahab,

I am not sure how much you know about what all is going on in Muslim world. There is no way we can deal with someone unless we understand his mind. I am quoting some serious references below for you and not something which is part of propaganda;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIoFiDE2awM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHOvWXX1dqA

There is no way we can save ourselves from a disease unless we understand how it spreads and how it destroys us. In my view this is a very serious view. I can see the signs of Tsunami approaching us. No amount of persuasion is going to stop these hard headed idiots. Things like economic sanctions, blockades etc have not worked for Burma, Zimbabwe, North Korea and will certainly fail in case of Pakistan. Nothing less then preparing for final war is going to stop this nonsense. In my view, from now own India must prepare her internal and external defenses. Politics will have to be cleaned if we have to face this threat. No amount of appeasement is going to soften hard headed clerics who divide whole world into Islamic and non-Islamic world.

RK^2

 

[sachinb]

Yes 5 of my freinds are working on this serious project and they have also named it as "Khundi Bheet",,,,,you will be surprised to know that they were talking with a foreign Architect who is expert on this subject and my freinds had great difficulti in explaining what Khundi Bheet means,,,,,,really it was tough,,,,but after that Architecht was convinced,,,

It is going to take some more time to get full estimation, but for sure this option will be much better than the Nuclear one that those expert told me,,,,,,

it would have been good if we have got some input on this from fellow JL members who think of nations security

O bhai yaa ke kah gyaa,,,,theek se Rohtak aala ne koni dyaange,,,,,Dadri mein Railway crossing ke upar ek Flyover banan laag rhyaa se,,,,dhaani Phaugat aale raah pe,,,,,us contractor ne dedyaange,,,,,ib to raaji ne:rock,,,,,,mauke ne chhodiye manne gheran ke,,,,ha ha ha ha ha

Aur haan... iske tenders should be given to some good company and not any rohtak ka "pulliya" bananey wala builder .. :rock