Ill-treatment of Jawans in Army

[vijay123]

Interesting thread.

I will not go into the gaps between jawan and officer but would definitely put some points on family welfare.

Welfare of jawans: This is something that Army/Govt should take care of. For that matter it is not just limited to jawans in Army but in police, CRPF, BSF etc. (all military/paramilitary forces). That will go a long way to the upliftment of the Indian society in general. An officer can afford a good house and education for their childrens (read tuition fees, college/univ fees, entrance exam coaching etc) but for a jawan even the education of children is very difficult to manage. By the time kids are old enough to go to college/univ, it is time to retire forcing the childrens to take up job asap. Government/Forces should come up with scheme whereby they can take care of expensive education for the kids of army and ex-army personnels. They could even arrange/devise some type of loan system to take care of that.

Co-curricular activities: This is another area that need more investment and introspection. Army has good facilities for these but they are limited to officers families. As such there should not be a distinction between officer's/ non-officer's families when it comes to using these facilities (eg: Swimming pool, horse riding, clubs, etc). They can provide a better oppurtunity for kids to mix with each other and learn. Specially kids of jawans will have better exposure to culture/mannerism/language and will help them in future.

 

[yatinder19]

vinod sir, you are talking with a grudge.
not a single of the statements is true.
ever since my trainig i have always polished my shoes myself.
1. army is as corrupt as civil? i cannot even answer that
2. widest income gap? the security gurad at GE capital is paued rs 2000 per month and the ceo has annual salary of 12.5 crores.
3. how many soldiers become officers? How many secutriy guards can you expect to become ceo's?
Navin Gulia

Navin Bhaai
Let me give answer of your questions...
1.Yes army is as corrupt as civil and even more than that...Only thing is that media cant always cover that...And if u dont know about it than brother u need to know about army...Let me give u examples
A. What is Army supply corps...All officers in this unit are corrupt..I mean all,and I mean it...My uncle's son is in ASC and he has told me what it is...When u people have to choose for ur regiment in IMA,u knw reputation of ASC...This is full of scandals and all officers are damn rich,hw they have become rich tell me??
B.Quarter master post in each regiment is very lucrative,and they do business.
C.CSD/Canteen has got fruitful post..
D.I havent seen any retired colonel/general in middle class,usually they are very rich...hw man???when they are drawing very modest salary...Compare them with retired soldiers...
Navin Bhaai,I am not saying all r like that...But most of them are like this we are seeing in Civil...No difference at all...
2. Your second example is out of context...In private companies still age of retirement is 58/60 years...but in army soldier retire after 17 years of service.
3.Most of security guards are retired soldiers only...

 

[navingulia]

Bhai Yati, kya baat karte ho yaar.
Army is as corrupt as civil?
NO WAY, NO WAY, NO WAY.
ASC ki baat karte ho?
What about
1. Sikh regt
2. sikh li
3. Jat regt/grenadiers (maximum casualities in kargil war)
4. gorkha regt
5. bihar regt
6. J&K li J&K rif
7. assam regt
8. maratha
9. madras regt
10. paratroopers
11. para commandoes/special forces
12. engr regt
13. artillery
14. signals

I have lowest regards for people who wear uniform and criticize it. Why the hell he didn’t join a fighting core. Jis thaali me khaate hain usi me chhed karte hain

Army is losing 3 soldiers every 2 days in defending this country. And this guy has cheeks to criticize army.

Daal chaawal khaa ke jo sipahi jhaadi, jungle aur pahaadon meis desh ki raksha kar raha hai, wo corrupt hai?

Jab police waale accident me mare logon ki ghadi aur purse nikal lete hain wo hota hai corruption.
Jab politicians shaheed hue sipahiyon ke kafan bech ke paise kamaate hain wo hota hai corruption.
Jab politicians is desh ko bech ke kha rahe hote hain wo hota hai corruption.

I have lost 20-25 of my batchmates in combat, my best friend lost his elder brother, two of my classmates lost their faathers in combat, my friend ankush lost his father 2 days before retirement and he being only son still wanted to join army, my cousin lost his father when he was one yr old.

I think very low of people who wear uniform and then instead of working and performing, criticize their own organisation.

It is like criticizing your country when you have done nothing for the betterment of your country.

Jawan’s have education and training classes and those who learn keep progressing up the ranks, Those who don’t clear at all retire as sepoy after 17yrs.

My nana retired as subedar after getting recruited as sepoy, my cousin nana retired as sepoy onyl, my father retired as colonel, my cousin chacha as brigadier.

Ab bhaai Yati, aap bologe ke jiske achchhe number aate hain unko achchi naukri kyun milti hai, sabko barabar naukrii kyun nahin milti?
Bhai ye to prakriti ka niyam hiai, jo jitna seekhta hai utna hi aage badhta hai.

Apne Dev Dahiya sir ke brother ek soldier bharti ho ke aur baad me Indian Military Academy se sword of honour ke saath paas ho ke officer bane.


Vinod sir ne mujhe kaha tha ki army me seniormost aur juniormost me maximum salary gap hai, to maine unko ek example diya ki GE capital ke security gurad ki salary 2000Rs hai aur uske head ki 12.5 carore. Jabki army me ek soldier ki pay 6000 rs hai aur Army chief ki 50,000. I hope you realize what being an Army Chief means. He has topped every single course in India and abroad and has a spotless career. Its not a cake walk to become army chief.

Army pe keechad uchhal ke khud ko jhuti tassali dena theek nahin.

Tell me Yati bhai, I got 100% disabled in army, 12 yrs I have been in wheelchair, my pension basic is 1,500rs , I get rs 600 disability allowance. Have you ever seen me complain? I am invited to give motivational talks at all army institutions where I am treated as a VIP and kept in guestrooms meant for generals. I got Chief of army staff commendation in 2005 army day ( I was recommended for sena medal), I got Presidents ‘National role model award’ last December.

People who crib and complain don’t get anything, those who work and perform achieve.

So, lets not talk bad about army and do our bit for making our society a better place. Let us perform.

 

[sidchhikara]

Navin Bhaai
Let me give answer of your questions...
1.Yes army is as corrupt as civil and even more than that...Only thing is that media cant always cover that...And if u dont know about it than brother u need to know about army...Let me give u examples
A. What is Army supply corps...All officers in this unit are corrupt..I mean all,and I mean it...My uncle's son is in ASC and he has told me what it is...When u people have to choose for ur regiment in IMA,u knw reputation of ASC...This is full of scandals and all officers are damn rich,hw they have become rich tell me??

More corrupt than civil ???? What are you smoking / drinking my friend ?? You painted everybody in the army with the same brush and added some more color on your own. This is a typical example of desi style grouping - ALL army people who are in ASC are bad - well, they are individual people and not a genetically deformed monstrous creature joined at the hip like Ravan. Agreed, there might be some bad seeds but there will always be people who are extremely honest and vice versa and some who fall inbetween. Donot group people together like that. Let me give you a taste of your medicine - What if I grouped you with a group of people who had the following collective characteristics......... deluded, possess half baked knowledge, liars, immature. I am sure you would strongly object because you may not be all those things - so I will not group you and would also expect you not to group me. Please try to be an individual and treat others also as individuals.

B.Quarter master post in each regiment is very lucrative,and they do business.
C.CSD/Canteen has got fruitful post..
D.I havent seen any retired colonel/general in middle class,usually they are very rich...hw man???when they are drawing very modest salary...Compare them with retired soldiers...

Another glowing example of grouping. Let me tell you my personal example - my father is a retired colonel from the army - he served for 37 years in the Artillery Corps and Air-Force - fought 2 wars - he had to struggle to construct his own house when he was approaching retirement, he lives on a meagre pension. He is not bitter and is proud of the honest service of 37 years.

Navin Bhaai,I am not saying all r like that...But most of them are like this we are seeing in Civil...No difference at all...

Well you were saying that earlier - that ALL people in ASC are corrupt
and that ALL colonel/general are filthy rich.

2. Your second example is out of context...In private companies still age of retirement is 58/60 years...but in army soldier retire after 17 years of service.
...

Quit trolling!!

3.Most of security guards are retired soldiers only...

Some more groupism - and what does it have to do with honesty??

 

[sidchhikara]

Thank you Navin Bhai!!

Navin Bhai,
I thank you whole heartedly for your sacrifice and your service. Rest assured, there will be people out there like me and my father out there who will always be thankful for your commendable service. There will always be unreal and deluded haters who have nothing better to do than make noise about things without knowing the reality on the ground - thats right NOISE - just filter it out. The more haters you have, the more successful you are, does'nt matter you are in India or America or anywhere in the world.

 

[vijay123]

I agree 101% with Navin that Army is a prestigious organization and whatever they are doing for the nation can not be put in words. It is not an easy task to go and live in siachen or sikkim-china border. Most of the civil people do not even have the courage to visit J&K or Kullu for the fear of hieght and the kind of roads though there the road is 100 times better then what our Army has to take to reach the borders.

At the same time it is also true that corruption has found inroads in Army be it the corruption in Arms deal, ration supply, selling of liquor, auctioning shops in cantonment areas, etc. One can see these kinds of reports in newspaper very often now a days. Corruption is now very deep rooted in our society everywhere but it can not belittle the contribution that Army is making for the nation. There is no point in debating whether there is corruption or not there. When we have a million people in this organization then some of them will also get lured to earning money in a fast way and try to take advantage of their position and power, be it a quarter master or a sub area commander or an ASC jawan/officer. Army has their own way to tackle these and I am sure that once the water is over head, they will definitely devise some mechanism to eliminate all sort of corruption and they have what it takes to achieve this. I am optimistic that things will improve.

Navin, you have mentioned that:
====================================
I have lowest regards for people who wear uniform and criticize it. Why the hell he didn’t join a fighting core. Jis thaali me khaate hain usi me chhed karte hain
====================================
There is nothing in Yati's post to be so upset about that ASC personnel. He has not mentioned that this ASC personnel has criticized the Army or ASC. He has merely uncovered a truth that is bitter and I appreciate that. May be he joined ASC without knowing anything about the other face and later on realized about the corruption around him. May be he is just disillusioned with that and sharing the bitter truth with others. There is nothing wrong in doing that. That is not criticism of Army from any angle.

However on other points like salary difference and type of work etc, I totally agree with you.

 

[navingulia]

Vijay Sir,
Bhai Yatinder ne mujhe ye bataya ki unke friend ne unhe bataya hai army kitni corrupt hai.
Isliye mujhe krodh aya ki koi army me serve karke army ki burai aise kare, bringing bad name to army. I personally have nothing against asc. They also have dedicated and sincere officers.

Important point to note is that army me jin jagahon pe aap corruption claim kar raahe ho, wo sab jagah wo hain jahaan army ka interaction civil se hota hai viz a viz canteen, supply, contracts
Regards
Navin Gulia

 

[paveldahiya]

Bhaiyon Ram Ram,
I have read all the views for fellow bros in this thread....some are saying army is not at all corrupt and some says it is more than civilians organisation. Hindustan mein har koi Army Man ki ijjat karta hia ...koyn ki woh dekh ki jaan de ke seva karta hai..aur sab ko to iss ka mauka bhi nahin milta..
but sirf yeh soch lene se ki woh bahut accha kaam karta hia aur Army mein sirf jaan dene wale log hian yeh bhi galat hoga...Atleast we should know the who is doin wat and whether it is right or wrong....so first thing is to know truth and then accept it....Bhagwan ne 6 arab log banaye hian...aur koi bhi ek doosre se nahin milta ...to army mein kaise sab corrupt ho sakte hian ya sab ke sab kaise jaan dene wale ho sakte hian...jo seva karte hian unko slaam .... n we shld do some work to make their lives better..but unnki wajah se army mein Paise lene walon ko to maaf nahin kiya ja sakta na ...yeh to hamare sheedon ka apmann hoga... Bhai Naveen mein tujhe tahe dil se Dhanyavaad deta hoon aur kamna karta hoon ki Army mein aur tere jaise bharti hoon...but ... aap acche ho ya jissko aap jante ho woh honest hian isska matlab yeh nahin hia na ki sab hai...aur bhai baki aap to samajhdaar ho humnein hi aapse kitni batein seekhi hiia.....So, Its better to know truth n accept it...Jis din army sari corrupt ho jayegi ..iss dekh ki seemayein sikud (shrink) ho jayengi....aur aisa to ab tak shayad hua nahin hia....

 

[navingulia]

Pavel Sir,
Your point is correct, everyone is not good and everyone is not bad. Bad should be punished and good should be rewarded.
The civilian administratilon has to learn a lot from the army:-
1. Discipline - we have a very very indisciplined public. We keep prasing other countries like US,Uk, singapore... but do nothing for our country.
2. Pride in doing one's work.
3. Organisation/efficiency - haath kangan ko aarsi kya. You go to army cantonment and see how neat and tidy it is. Civilian administration has more money but they give you only a filthy city.
4. Motivation

We, as civilians, have much to learn from army and defence set up. Let us try to imbibe those qualities.



ps. I also want to clarify that i have no significant contribution as an army man except some work for rehabilitation of disabled soldiers in QMTI Pune and with War Wounded Foundation and being a motivational speaker at training institutions. I was not fortunate enough to serve in army but i am fortunate enough to serve in civil where there is a bigger battle to fight.

Bhai Yatinder, we have to avoid getting into negativism, because negativism breeds negativism. Even i have to guard myself agains it. We have to look at the bigger right than the smaller wrong.

 

[rakeshdahiya]

Dear All,

I want to share my thoughts about officers in Army.

Some people in Army are really motivated and for them money is secondary. But as someone pointed out above we have all kind of people, that means that there are still people who somehow could not resisit the temptation of good money ( i am not saying temptation of good life because being a son of a retired Air Force Personnel I know life is good in Armed Forces)

We all know its not easy to become an officer in Army, Navy ot Air Force. Altesat I know becuase I appeared 8 timed at SSB but was never selected, I still dont know why!!! and I regret it very much......Now in corporate world I am drawing a salary which is much more lucrative as compared to some of my best friends (in monetary sense only) who were lucky enough to be selceted in army and all of them have reached the rank of Major by now.

We are all human beings and therefore we all want to do good for ourself , our family, our country, our world in what ever capicity in which we can. (may not be in the same order). So sometimes Army officers, who are obviously as talented as thier counterparts in Civil/corpoarte services, may feel in thier heart that why they are being paid only 40,000/PM whereas a BDM/AVP in corporate world is paid almost double/triple that amount of salart PM.(depending on the company).

May be this could be one of the reason as to why we could have some BAD officers who adopt unfair means to realise their monetary ambitions.

Having said all that I personally would rate Indian Defence Forces as 4 on a scale of 1-5.

 

[jitendershooda]

Navin Bhai,
I thank you whole heartedly for your sacrifice and your service. Rest assured, there will be people out there like me and my father out there who will always be thankful for your commendable service. There will always be unreal and deluded haters who have nothing better to do than make noise about things without knowing the reality on the ground - thats right NOISE - just filter it out. The more haters you have, the more successful you are, does'nt matter you are in India or America or anywhere in the world.

Bhai Chhikara ... dont get so upset if somebody show the mirror ... If you are pointing to Yati for the haters ... I must tell you that he is younger brother of Kargil shaheed Ravinder Chikkara ... whose statue is there besides Bus Stand of Jhajjar ...

He himself like other Jat guys tried for SSB and to be in ARMY ... I met him only there in Varanasi SSB.

So how can a person who is aspirant to be in ARMY even though parents are not willing to let the other son join army can be a hater. In your last post and in this one you have gone a bit personal I feel.

Naveen bhai ... ya baat sahi hai ki aaj sirf fauj hi ek aisa mehakma hai joki desh ko bachae hue hai ... nahi to jaisa ki pavel ne kaha ... sikud jyati sarhadein ...

Par har jagah sari ungliyan barabar nahi hoti ... Yatinder ne jo batein kahi wo bahut had tak theek hein .... haan Chikkara bhai ne jo kahi ek usko ALL nahi kahe sakte ... but the situation there also is really bad ...

Mhare pados mein hai ... Major Takshak ... koe jo rohtak ka ho te bera hoga usne ...Model school mein master bhi they Takshak ... he was court marshalled when he enveiled the consipiracy of the food scam ... and he was the scape goat for it ... he refused to mix up with the corrupt gang ... aaj unke dimag mein bhi pharak hogya ...

Mein bangalore tha jib hum ek bari Jat meeting mein Commander dahiya ne bulane ke liye discuss kar rahe they ... to usi din unke Meat scam mein shamil hone ki baat ka pata chala ... so dropped that idea ... god knows what was the reality but that was a big scam ...

Bhai Navin baat theek hai bahut ghane sainik er afsar theek hein ... er jibbe to kaam chal rahya hai ...

Yatinder ne jo kahi ki most of the soldiers are gurads here in companies ... it is true and few of our jatland members itself are in this security field of MNCs taking retirement in early ages ... this is only because of the ill-treatment of jawans in army. Kyun aaj apne baap-dada har di dhalan jyada time na bitate jawan ya officer defence mein ... kyonki sthitiyan badal rahi hein ... bahar jyada paisa aur choice hai ... aur andar ill-treatment aur corruption bhi ...

Ek Punjab ka chora hai meri sath uska mama hai brigadier Delhi cannt mein ... wo kime Theke den ke kaam mein hai ... oooho ke thath baath .. kitne ee to plot hein ... koe sushant lok koe sector 40 ... loot macha rakhi hai ...

I myself witnessed the bribe to get the station of choice ...

Er Navin bhai je nue chalta rahya ne to bahut kam log ho jyange to join karenge military ... Sirf gussa hone ya ankh moodane se jo galat hai wo sahi to nahi ho jata .... Yes there are many officers who are corrupt in Military and this number is increasing .... also there are more cases of ill-treatment of Jawans.

Mhari gail ka tha ek CISF mein ... wo bataya karta ek yaar itna ganda mehakma ho rahya hai yo belt ka ... chutti deke raji na ... galat tem pe duty humesha ... er jo bihari er south ke chatukar er jinki lugai unke ghar ne jake pindi boch dein ... uneh har cheej se relaxation ... he was given warnings for no wrong severally ... now he has left the job and joined JBT in delhi ... uski halat dekhi ...raat ne aa jyata man halaka karan ... nue kaheta yaar mera to issa jee kare hai ek Namdev ki dhala bhatka dyun salle ne ...

 

[sidchhikara]

Bhai Chhikara ... dont get so upset if somebody show the mirror ... If you are pointing to Yati for the haters ... I must tell you that he is younger brother of Kargil shaheed Ravinder Chikkara ... whose statue is there besides Bus Stand of Jhajjar ...

Jitender bhai,
Thanks for bringing that up. I want to thank Yatinder and his family for their sacrifice - Thank you.
I agree to disagree with Yatinder on generalizing that all army officers are rich and corrupt and treat jawans bad.

 

[navingulia]

bhai mere

Bhai mere Yatinder and Bhai Jitender
You are failing to understand the army ethos and needs
These headlines
‘ill treatment of jawans in Indian army’, ‘indian jawans demoralised’, ‘indian jawans committing suicides’, Indian soldiers deserting’, Indian officers most corrupt’, ‘indian army most corrupt’
These headlines appear in Pakistan TV because they want to demoralise Indian forces and here we are making such statements on Indian platforms. What do we want?
I mean Pakistan would love that few people here can spread dessent like this.
The army officers will be demoralized that their counterparts in civil are getting ten times more. The soldiers will be demoralized that officers tai kaache kaatein sain, mhari e raid lag rahi sai.
For every 5 examples you give me, of somebody cribbing corruption (its only cribbing, no proved corruption), I can give you 10,000 cases of sincerity and sacrifice.
Bhai Jeete ‘chhutti time pe nahin milti?’, rai mere baabu nai kade chhuti time pai nahin mili. Army is not a childs play, we cannot expect to ve choclate cream soldiers who are supplied with chilled pepsi and ice-cream.
Army mai rowaniya bhi bhatere mil jyaange par army unpe nahin chalti.

I will make a 15day drive through Manali, Leh, kargil, Srinagar and back starting 1st July. I would request you to come along and see some soldiers living in worlds toughest terrain and conditions. For their sake don’t criticize army. Atleast not with words like “Army is more corrupt then Civil”
I look at it this way
1.Talking bad about army is talking bad about every soldier who has sacrificed or is fighting right now too.
2. Talking bad about my country is like mocking at everyone who has sacrificed for this country. Its like telling them that they died fighting for a bad army/country.

If someone says 2 words bad about my parents I may tolerate that but if someone says bad about army or my country, no way, not in this life I am not going to tolerate it.

I have always believed that if we can replicate the discipline and sincerity of Army in civil our country will be transformed in a day. Sarkari machinery kaam karne lagegi. Ye jo sarkari school ke teacher bachhon se chai banwake peete hain aur saare resources khaa jaate hain, wo padhaane lagenge.

Ab dono ‘Jite aur Yati’ is thread ko khatam kar dyo. Aur neeche likh do you agree with me. Is thread me tum dono haar maan lo, I promise 4 thread me mai tumse haar maan lunga. Theek sai?

My apologies for any hard words used.

 

[jitendershooda]

Bhai mere Yatinder and Bhai Jitender
You are failing to understand the army ethos and needs
These headlines
‘ill treatment of jawans in Indian army’, ‘indian jawans demoralised’, ‘indian jawans committing suicides’, Indian soldiers deserting’, Indian officers most corrupt’, ‘indian army most corrupt’
These headlines appear in Pakistan TV because they want to demoralise Indian forces and here we are making such statements on Indian platforms. What do we want?
I mean Pakistan would love that few people here can spread dessent like this.
The army officers will be demoralized that their counterparts in civil are getting ten times more. The soldiers will be demoralized that officers tai kaache kaatein sain, mhari e raid lag rahi sai.
For every 5 examples you give me, of somebody cribbing corruption (its only cribbing, no proved corruption), I can give you 10,000 cases of sincerity and sacrifice.

Bhai Navin ... you are right ... but these things are happening and its practical ... we cant run away with the fact aur ye sochna ki jawano ki is terah ki khabar se aap door rakh ke unka moral high rakh lenge to kya ye possible hai? they will anyhow came to know these facts of more salary in civils (rather they knew this and that is why in todays many soldiers take early retirements) and other officers are making money by bad means ... arent they are aware of it ... mera bhai hai Delhi cantt aali canteen mein ... wo nayak hai ... batave tha ek bhai hade bhi civil aala kaam hai kai officers ka to ... and one more PUNJABI friend from hissar is in army and he get his posting to Leh only to get away from the unncessary pressures of birbery ... aache aadmi bhi bahut hein bhai ...

Aap ye samjho ki mein ye nahi kahe raha ki sab corrupt hein ... but the small chunks those who are developing should be embushed at the start only ... aap jo bata rahe ho ki kitne mushkil mein rahekar sainik log humari rakhsha kar rahe hein ... I know bhai ... and for the sacrifice of them only we are saying ki unke sath ye bartav galat hai ki unko ill-treat karen ...

Bhai navin mere khyal te aaj ke tem pe koe issa sainik ya Officer nahi hoga jo in batan te aware na hai ... par they have zeal in them to serve the nation thats why they join army ... aap batao ke aapne na bera tha join karan te pahelyan ek hade bhi thoda bahut to ho hai ... humne bhi bera tha ... er mere 1-2 dost paise deke bhi bharti hue ... er sainik to kaiye bharti hote dekhe apne yare-pyare ee ... and its not too far ... 2 mahine pahelyan ee ek chora huya hai bharti navy mein paise deke ... to ye baat sabne bera hein mere bhai ... er koe demoralise na hota .,... aur isiliye aajkal military wale bhi isse ek career option ke roop mein publisize kar rahe hein .... positives negatives sare samne rakh ke ... taki jo banda aae wo 100% ...

Bhai Jeete ‘chhutti time pe nahin milti?’, rai mere baabu nai kade chhuti time pai nahin mili. Army is not a childs play, we cannot expect to ve choclate cream soldiers who are supplied with chilled pepsi and ice-cream.
Army mai rowaniya bhi bhatere mil jyaange par army unpe nahin chalti.

I will make a 15day drive through Manali, Leh, kargil, Srinagar and back starting 1st July. I would request you to come along and see some soldiers living in worlds toughest terrain and conditions. For their sake don’t criticize army. Atleast not with words like “Army is more corrupt then Civil”
I look at it this way
1.Talking bad about army is talking bad about every soldier who has sacrificed or is fighting right now too.
2. Talking bad about my country is like mocking at everyone who has sacrificed for this country. Its like telling them that they died fighting for a bad army/country.

If someone says 2 words bad about my parents I may tolerate that but if someone says bad about army or my country, no way, not in this life I am not going to tolerate it.

I have always believed that if we can replicate the discipline and sincerity of Army in civil our country will be transformed in a day. Sarkari machinery kaam karne lagegi. Ye jo sarkari school ke teacher bachhon se chai banwake peete hain aur saare resources khaa jaate hain, wo padhaane lagenge.

Ab dono ‘Jite aur Yati’ is thread ko khatam kar dyo. Aur neeche likh do you agree with me. Is thread me tum dono haar maan lo, I promise 4 thread me mai tumse haar maan lunga. Theek sai?

My apologies for any hard words used.

Bhai ek baat ... aagle saal banaiyo issa koe program ... mein jaroor chalunga aapke sath ... eeb te iss 99 ke chakkar mein phans rahe haan ... chees na karo nue bata ke ...

Er bhai maan li aapki baat ... kati ek akshar nahi likhun iss thread pe eeb pache ... yo pakade kan ... par mhara maksad kati aapka ya kisse aur bhai ka jee dukhana ya apni military ko badnam karne ka tha ... bas thoda jo galat lage tha wo likhan they ... er ya to sabne bera hai ek ya military ee rahe rahi hai thodi jo desh ne bacha rahi hai ... na to naas ja liya kati ... jaan geda aan ne ho rahya hai ...

Acha chalte chalte Navin bhai ek aap beeti bhi batana chahunga mein ... Mere nana 17 grenediers mein they ... er 48, 61,62, 65 , 71 sari ladai ladi thi ... uneh kae medal se bhi mil rahe they ... ladai mein panh too gya tha aur 72 mein medically retire hoge they ... when he got expired in 97 ... I was there in Rohtak to get the pension work done ... I think the pension dept whose head quarter is there in Allahabad ... is some civil like dept. (Put some light on this) ... Mr Mishra from Patna ... Srivastava ,.... one more was there to Rohtak to listen to the Pension complaints ... I was there for some arrear pending for the medical disabled it was around 60 k or 90k not sure now ... that time Farnandes did some increase and so it was handsome amount till 72 to 97 .... There was a Hon capt retired Kadiyan from Beri ... buddhe aadmi ... unka chora sath mein aa rahya ... pension mein bera na ke adanga dal rakhya ... kae lakh rupiyee na mil liye they ... wo chora batave tha ek ... bhai ye nue kahe hein ek pahelyan 1.5 lakh de dyo humne 50 50 bantein aa jyange ... mere mein bhi josh tha jib tahi ,... maka mein kati na dyun ek aana bhi ... mein sidhe sidhe kahe gaya uneh ... nue kahe dein ek DPDEO daftar te yo kagaj lyao ... ya copy dyo ... kite service book ... kade nue kahe dein ek inka disabiliy percentage is not clear ...base hospital te kime likhva ke dyo ... mene bahut patrachar karya jabbalpur bhi ... par wahe dhak ke teen pat ... pher agli be we aae ... to 1500 k diye jhat de si agle din sign karke case tyar kar diya ... account mein agle mahine pisse aage ... ram ram chain chain ... to bhai nue jee dukhe hai jib in faujiyan gaila issi bane hai jineh desh khatir jaan di er itne kast sahe ...

 

[rajpawariya]

Ill treatment of Jawans/ ORs is spreading in defence forces like epidemic.ORs are treated by officers just like third rate human being and forced to live in such pathetic conditions which a civilised society even can not imagine. I myself has seen 100 Jawans use 1 toilet and 2 officers use 01 toilet. Jawan's barracks are full of bugs. Shabby dresses are issued in the name of free clothing. Jawan's are given Ration money which is totally inadequate comparing the prices in cantonment areas, wheras Officers are given in kind ration so they are unaffected with price rise. In the name of free accommodation, 70% of Jawans are denied family accommodation whereas officers enjoy almost 100% furnished accommodation by paying some 5% of basic pay. Jawans are forced to travel without reservation which everyone see in trains/ platforms. Promotion avenues of Jawans /ORs have stagnated/ diminished whereas officers are getting promotions so fast which unimaginable before 25 years. I can cite an example of IAF, an airmen can become Sgt in 20 years, whereas an officer will become Wing Commander in 16 year. List is long. Jawans are being exploited physically, psychologically, socially and financially. Shortages of officers in forces is artificial. A squadron is supposed to be commanded by Sqn Ldr but is commanded by Group captain/ Air Commodore. The jobs which was earlier done by Corporal is being done by Flying Officer. In last I can say that I will suggest all my near & dear not to join Olive, Blue or White uniforms.

 

[sndpdhy]

nobody kicks a dead dog! yes life in army is tough and good- rewarding in numerous ways ( keeping monetary aspects aside). to analyse the contents of this thread i would like to advise the learned friends that please get to know the set up of ministry of Defence and the relationship with the army, air force and navy there of wrt to policies related to (a)procurements, tenders, development/ modernatisation( including technical, other infrastructure etc)(b) manpower planning; promotions, pay allowances (c ) the concept of the civilian control over the defence forces. nothing comes without a rider, namely finance, the same is controlled by the ministry. some people in uniform do get carried away to marrou money but the malise lies in the system " mere koh bhi civil meh kaam karane keh liye rishwat dene opadti ab mera chance hai' . make this service lucrative & see the difference. lastly, the relationship between a 'bhaiya & an officer' is unique- not every body can understand & appreciate. ask those soldiers. jai hind

 

[navingulia]

Now this thread has become a real comedy- tap and bath(bhai amriki army join kar lyo)
Let me site more cases of ill treatment/exploitation of jawans-
1. why jawan wear khakhi short and officers and jco’s wear white dress.
2. even the ranks they wear are different.
3. officer travels in jeep and jawans in truck.
4. jawans have food in langar and officers in mess.

Rai mere bhaaiyon hamare yahaan ek bhai offr hota hai ek bhai jawan. Officer jallad nahin hote aur jawan devta nahin hote. Dono insaan hi hote hain.

Kisi bhi ladaai me shaheed hone waalon me officers ka number ratio ke hisaab se jawans se jyada hota hai kyunki Indian army ke officers jawans ke saath aage ladte hain, Pakistani army ke officers ki tarah peechhe safe bunkers me nahin rahte.

Apne jawans ki safety ke liye kitne officers ne jaan di hai, kitne naam sun na chaahte ho bataao?

Yes, Army me hierarchy hai aur usi se kaam chalta hai. Army ka kaam baut badhiya chal raha hai. Har bharti centre me 20 vacancy ke liye 20,000 candidate aate hain.
Mera cousin nda join kar raha hai 335 vacancy ke liye 2-3lakh candidate thei.
Army ka kaam badhiya chal raha hai. Civil ki vyavastha charmara rahi hai, civil me kuchh kaam karte hain.

Mai moradabad se aa raha tha, bypass pe 3 aadmi road pe pade thei. Their bike had banged with a truck, I cannot walk so I couldn’t attend to them but I came ahead and at the police checkpost 2km ahead I saw the subinspector collecting 20Rs from passing trucks, 3-4 vehicles ahead of me had already told him of the accident and when I told him he sai ‘haan haan ambulance mangaa rahe hain’. This is corruption.

Army pe keechad uchhalne ka koi matlab nahin hai.13lakh ki army me se idhar udhar se cases pakad ke aur gossip ke basis pe puri army ko corrupt bata diya.

Mera baabu jarnal nahin banya aur mai karnal nahin banya par roti fauj ki hi khaai hain. Its against my principle’s to do namakharami.

Idealism starts with us ourselves, we are nothing if we don’t enforce idealism on ourselves first.

Khud me wo aag paida karo ki is samaj aur system ko badal saken, aur wo aag hamare khud ke idealism se shuru hoti hai.

 

[spdeshwal]

Naa bhai Navin comedy nahi ghana e sharamnaak hone lag reha hai!

Ek bhai ne te salah e de di ki koi bhi Olive, blue or white naa join karna.

Re iss se bhi ghatiya baat ho sakti hai koi?

Let me introduce myself before i go any further.

I have served in Indian Navy as an ordinary sailor and after serving ten years was released as a Leading Electric Mech Radio(Nayak).

The people are portraying the relationship between an officer and jawan is all bullshit, kori bakwas

I had chance to work with Army Jawans as well.

Off-course there has to be a gap between an officer and Jawan and the relationship can't be equated with civilians.

You imagine if an officer and jawan drink together in the night, will the jawan get up for PT or Parade in the morning.

The allegation of sub-standard ration or uniform is also nothing but a joke.
I always loved the food in Navy. Once had a chance to live with Army jawans for two weeks. Although it was different from what we used to have but cetainly of good quality.

There are certainly some problems in the supply chain because of civilian involement. Supply contractors would always be civilians. They always succeed to corrupt someone in uniform.

CANTEEN SE SASTA SAAMAN KHARID KAR jAWAN BHI KHOOB BECHTE HEIN
I remember how the sailors would hide duty free goods bought from ship's canteen and sell it to small shop owners. Jab bhi koi fauji jawan chhuti aata XXX kharidne waalon ki line lag jaati hai.

The incident of suicide etc. also highly exaggerated. Can any one tell the comparison between Army and civilian population???? I can bet suicide rate in Army would be less than civil !!!

Isme koi do rai nahi, the job is most demanding, needs 100% commitment, lots of sacrifices, risks etc. One may get upset when leave is not sanctioned even after learning about an emergency at home. Mother/ father/ wife at death bed. Some times Jawan/Sailors?airmen fake it to attend a marriage. Sometimes situation doesn't permit.

Finally, i would agree with all those who are advocating for more pay and better facilities. Jawans are lowly paid in comparison to civilians but do much hard work in testing conditions.

Navin bhai Sahid chahe jawan ho, chahe officer ho, dhukhdai jaroor hota hai par Gorwanit bhi karta hai. mera to ye-hi maana hai ki bhagay shali hein wo log jo matribhoomi ke liye Saheed hote hein! issi liye Rastra-Kavi Makhan lal Chaturvedi ne Sahidon ke Sammaan mein ye kavita " Pushp ki Abhilasha" likhi thee..

http://www.prayogshala.com/poems/pushp-ki-abhilasha

 

[navingulia]

Haan Deshwal Sir,
Ab keechad me crawling mannai bhi kari sai, jhaadi jungle mai bhi rahna padya sai, ek gande aluminium ke tiffin me se mitti bhare haathon se khana khaya hai. Aur ke mai fauj mai laadu, shakkar paare khawan gaya tha?
Small incidents will happen where human beings are there. How can you have perfect human beings anywhere?
Indian Army's good job is not because of good resources (like US army) but because of blood and sweat and hard work.
Ek civilian area cantonment ki tarah saaf suthra aur well organised tab dikhaae dega jab utna hi discipline civil me introduce hoga.
Nahi to deewar pe likho 'yahan pishaab karna mana hai' aur saare waheen ja ke karenge.
Dande maar kaanun laagu karo singapore ya new york ki tarah aur dekho, majal hai koe ek kaagaj bhi baga de road pai.

Fauj mai aisi tough conditon bhi face karni padti hain jab gaaliyaan de ke, maa bahan ka wasta deke, laat maarke saathiyon ko aage badhne ke liye uksana padta hai.
ek baar hame training me ek bogus enemy post pe attack karna tha. jaise hi hum us post ke paas pahunchne lage to post me se do nakli round(goli) chalne ki aawaz aai, ar saare ke saare jawaan yodha (including me) dharti mai lot gye. us time hamare instructor ne humpe dhadi ke hisaab se gaaliyon ki barsaat kari thi.
Jo gaaliyan ek officer apne jawan ko deta hai uska kaam theek na hone pe, wahi gaaliyaan us officer ko sun ni padti hain agar uske kaam me kami pakdi gayi to.

Thanks for reminding 'Pushp ki abhilasha', ye kavita har baalak school me padhta hai. Hamen kurbaaniyon ki keemat samajhni hai aur usi keemat ko man me rakhke apne desh aur samaj ke nirmaan ke liye ekjut hona hai.
un kurbaaniyon ki wajah se hi hamara desh pakistan ya afghanistan nahin hai.

 

[dndeswal]

Army needs reforms

.
Mystery shrouds lady officer's death
Times of India, July 4, 2007

NEW DELHI/JAMMU: Is there more to the death of 26-year-old Captain Megha Razdan, who was found hanging at her official residence in Jammu on Sunday night, than what meets the eye?

Her parents and the Jammu police certainly think so. The police, on its part, does not want to rule out even murder at this stage. Megha's mother Shailaja Razdan, in turn, finds it hard to believe that her "mentally-strong and happy-go-lucky" daughter could have committed suicide. She, in fact, blames Megha's senior officers for putting her under tremendous work pressure.

Even defence minister A K Antony, already grappling with the large number of suicides in the armed forces, wants the Army to "arrive at the truth" behind Megha's alleged suicide at the earliest.

After summoning a high-level meeting in New Delhi on Tuesday, attended by defence secretary Shekhar Dutt, Army vice chief Lt-General Deepak Kapoor and adjutant general Thomas Mathew, among others, Antony asked the Army to "expedite" its court of inquiry into Megha's death. He also directed his officials to request the J&K government to speed up the police inquiry into the case.

Jammu deputy superintendent of police Shiv Kumar Chauhan, heading the investigating team, told TOI, "We are working on all angles. Much will depend on what Captain Megha Razdan's parents and her husband Captain Chaitanya Bhatwadekar have to say when we talk to them either on Wednesday or Thursday."

While awaiting the findings of the autopsy report from the GovernmentMedicalCollegeHospital at Jammu, police officials are pointing to some bruises and injury marks on the victim's body, apart from internal bleeding in the stomach, to include the murder angle in their investigations.

Moreover, they are not fully convinced about the "unsigned, computer-printed" suicide note found next to Megha's body at her Kunjwani Talab residence on Sunday night.

The note indicated that Megha was unhappy with the Army way of life and wanted to "leave the world as well as the Army". The note also said she was fed up with her seniors. The Army, however, says Megha had not complained about any harassment by seniors to higher authorities.

Be that as it may, the police has serious doubts about the suicide note. Though it was typed on her computer laptop, there was no printer in the house. How then was the note printed? Megha, incidentally, was working in her office till late on Sunday afternoon. But she was accompanied by her husband Captain Bhatwadekar, who had gone there to assist her in her work.

After reaching home from office on Sunday evening, Captain Bhatwadekar apparently went out with his orderly to do some shopping for the party. On returning, they found Megha hanging with a bedsheet wrapped around her neck.

The police are also uncomfortable about the fact that there was a huge gap between the time Megha's death was discovered and the time it was called to the scene by the Army authorities. The Army had already undertaken some kind of investigation before the police arrived at the spot. Police officials hold that it's yet to be established whether Megha was already dead before she was hanged or whether she died because of the hanging.

All this came even as another young jawan, Vishnu Pratap Singh of the Rajputana Rifles, shot himself dead with his INSAS automatic rifle near the Ratnuchak Army camp, on the outskirts of Jammu, late on Monday night. Incidentally, as reported earlier by TOI, the armed forces witness around 130 suicide cases every year.
.