Is Corruption in USA any different than in India?

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yaar hum ab
photo lene ki
aadat nahe rakhte
camera hamara
toot chuka hae
kasrat karte hue
apne photo lete
corrution ki baat aap
kuoon youon hae palatee
aap desh chhod kar
door bhag jaate
auur desh ko
hazaroon miloon
see bekaar mein kostee
 
Bhai Amrit,

Your way of thinking can only be changed by you I don't know how you make your perception without facts....

You talk like other's people running out of option or don't have any option.

Don't you think we are bringing a sense of pride for our country?

Don't you think we are making our country proud of us?

See the history or present it will tell you the facts.

I believe Bharatiya in any other countries outside from India are doing more than what Bharat vasee are doing for themselves.

Waise I have seen most of your post's ...criticizing every now and then and more curious to know how you are contributing to our country's growth.

Thanks

desh ko
hazaroon miloon
see bekaar mein kostee
 
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yaar aapb bhi kya baat karte ho.
yeh poor log phir ghoos kaise dete haeen poor hone ke bawjood?

aap kaise baatein karte ho
dusre desh jaane ki
iccha se passport
banwaate ho
aur dusre deshoon mein
ek dusre se
mooh chupaate ho
phir kyon apne ko
bharatiya kehlate ho
upar se jatland par
aa kar deshbhakti ke
naaare lagate ho
desh tumse banaa hae
aur tum desh see
kyon bekaar ke baatein
kar ke hindustan
mein rehne wallon ka
dil dukate ho

Kharb Ji by the way Ye DESHBHAKTI hai kya Cheez, agar passport
banwana aur videsh jana DESHDROH hai. Mujhe nahin lagta hum
bahar ja kar ek dusre se muh chhupate hain ulte Hum tho aur kareeb aa
jaate hain ek dusre ke. Even I found there is no difference between a pakistani, an Indian, a Bangladeshi or srilankan when we are out side India.
 
I was scanning news online and came across this current news from NJ USA;

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1912761,00.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/..._latestdevelopmentsinnjcorruptionarrests.html

Looking at the profile of persons involved and the type of corruption, i don't find it any different than what we have in India. I am sure this is not a single case of its type. May be our members living in USA can educate us more on the level of corruption there.

Rajendra

Sir, as an universal law, any human group, organisation[social, political, religious, professional] is susceptible to corruption due to involvement of power. Primate instincts of greed precipitates corruption with any position of power in any arena in any society or country of human inhabitation. America is no different. Its simply simple that they have progressed materialsticaly because of their forefathers started industerlisation few centuries ago when we were slave to Britain. The Land of Liberty is occupied with CCTVs everywhere, ironicaly.Socialy unsafe and messed place and a wrong example to human civlization, atleast nowadays.

Another piece of news :-
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090726/ap_on_re_us/us_palin_resignation
 
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Kharb Ji by the way Ye DESHBHAKTI hai kya Cheez, agar passport
banwana aur videsh jana DESHDROH hai. Mujhe nahin lagta hum
bahar ja kar ek dusre se muh chhupate hain ulte Hum tho aur kareeb aa
jaate hain ek dusre ke. Even I found there is no difference between a pakistani, an Indian, a Bangladeshi or srilankan when we are out side India.

Well said ..
 
Kharb Ji by the way Ye DESHBHAKTI hai kya Cheez, agar passport
banwana aur videsh jana DESHDROH hai. Mujhe nahin lagta hum
bahar ja kar ek dusre se muh chhupate hain ulte Hum tho aur kareeb aa
jaate hain ek dusre ke. Even I found there is no difference between a pakistani, an Indian, a Bangladeshi or srilankan when we are out side India.

Kya baat hae. bahur deep thinking sawal hae. deshbhakti kya hae?
dhyan se padho aise post haeen jatland par unn logoon ki jo videsh mein rehte haeen aur issi jatland par bolte haeen ki hindustani videsh mein ek dusre see mooh chupate rehte haeen. thoond loo yeh post mil mil jaygeggi aapko yahaan par.

koi difference naheen hae paki , Indian, bangladeshi, srilankan mein? kitne history padi hae aapne merei tarah kam se kam 10 ween tak to padi hogi phir bhi?:confused:

phir tho bhai Indian ko paki maantae hongee UK mein jahaan par inn pakiyoon ne aapna aacha khasa bura naam kama rakha hae. Aur jahaan ki angrezi fauj Afghanistan mein ladayee kar rahi hae.
Agar Indian ka naam achaa hoga to kya yeh paki aapne aapko Indian baata te hongee? Aur kamal ho gaya yeh bangladeshi jo ki itna ganda naam kama chuke haeen yeh bhi apne aapko Indian kehte honge unn videshiyoon ki aankho mein dhool jokene ke waaste? Yeh lankan apne aapko aryan baate hongee goree longoon ko? :tamatar
aapne to kamaal kar diya bhai.:( ho ho kalee rang ka Aryan hazir hae Jahapanah!
Aur Ek paki ek Indian hindu see bolta hoga - kashmir mein kya kar rahe ho, apne muirda logoon ko hamare tarah dafanate kyon nahee, muslmaan superrior haeen tum mulsim ban jayo, mera naam khan hae khan, hindu ladkiyoon ko hamare purwajoon ne udaya, ek paki 10 hinduoon ke barabar hota hae, wagare wagare, aap imagine kar sakte ho tho karo.
aisa karoo aap jayo kareb inn pakiyoon ke aur inn bangladeshioon ke aur lankan ke. muzhe baksh do. Muzhe tho inse duur rehna pasand hae. yahaan bhi dushman tho wahan bhi dushman :thappad

Bahut dhanyawad bhaiji.
 
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Bhai corruption wahan bhi hai, yahan bhi hai... wahan yahan se kam hai... yahan hum log corruption ke aadi ho chuke hain... ye hamare khoon me ram chuka hai... isme kafi had tak galti hamari bhi hai, apna kaam jaldi karane ke liye, taki hame preshaan na hona pade, hum bribe dete hain ya kisi ki approach ka sahara lete hain... wahan par corruption aam aadmi ki zindagi pe direct affect ni dalta hai.... main aapko abhi 15 din pehle ki baat batata hoon, mere ek dost ki passport ki verification thi, main uske saath police station chala gaya, police wale ne jo ASI tha, usne verification letter likh kar bade cunning tarike se kaha ki lo ji aap ka kaam to ho gaya, thoda ab hamara bhi kar do.. mere dost ne use 200 nikla ke de diye(yahan galti hamari bhi hai, hum bhi bribe de rahe the, but kya karte, complaint karne ka fayda ni tha) to usne paise lete hue badi gandi shakal bana ke kaha : bas itne hi........ badi muskil se mana wo 200 me bhi... jo uski duty usko karne ke liye bhi wo paise maang rha tha.... ek aam aadmi bhi sochta hai ki chhodo kya fark padta hai paise de kar kaam to ho jayega.... Actaully hamare system me kuchh loopholes hain... aap riswat lete pakde jaoge or riswat deke chhoot bhi jaoge :o:o... Lekin ye to hai ki dheere dheere corruption kam to hota ja rha hai yahan bhi, pehle jaise bure halat ni rahe ... pehle line man ko dene padte the paise or wo log complaint karne par bhi ni aate the, but ab wo log ek baar complaint karte hi aa jate hain or paise bhi ni mangte hain.... shayd ye isliye bhi hai ki ab private telecom companies bhi aa gayi hain.. dheere dheere sudhar to ho rha hai, but abhi improve karne me time lagega... Hope for the best...
 
I think Sid has given a correct angle to this debate. The lack of low-level corruption in the US is because of capitalism (I'd change the argument slightly and call it competition) and not because Americans are more morally upright or patriot. You take away competition and give too much power without clear accountability, and you'd see corruption. I am sure there would be corruption in the police in the US. Not of the kind where they catch you without helmet and ask you to pay 100 bucks. But where they have dealings with drug dealers.

Even in India, things have changed wherever competition is there. In 1980s, one couldn't get a landline in years without paying off several people. One can now own a mobile instantly and even a landline gets done much quickly (incidentally much more quickly than UK). Even if you are applying through MTNL. Earlier, they would make your phone go dead and you'd have to pay them money to get it to work again. Now, you don't even see them, just make a complaint and it gets done. It is because they have all these private companies threatening their very survival. They may still not be as good as the private companies (years of attitude doesn't change overnight), but they are much better than what they used to be. The same is not true of driving license, passport, etc, as there is no competition.

Competition is not a necessary condition. Corruption is massively reduced if you make it institutionally difficult to demand/offer bribes. For example, most of the Income Tax corruption in India is because of a system where IT officers have the power to personally contact specific individuals for tax collection. The power to raid is used to harass individuals. If you randomly assign IT officers to cases, then get them to contact the individual through email, letter or phone (recorded line), and give the power to raid only when absolutely necessary and through explicit court order, it'd change things. It is much difficult to accept or offer bribes when you know that your conversation is being recorded. Similarly, one sees a lot of corruption where one has to personally get the paper work done by contacting a multitude of agencies/individuals. Every additional step only increases the probability of money changing hands. Instead, there should be a single window system where you just submit your papers (preferrably to an outsourced firm). The rest should happen automatically within the organization without anyone "interacting" with you and finally you should just get a written response that your application is successful/rejected with the next steps if it has been rejected (to be again submitted through the single window). If you have to "appear" before any officer with your "case", that only provides an avenue to offer/solicit bribes. You cut the link and you reduce the bribing significantly.
 
...Another Episode of the greatly 'Khraab' Adventures!

... Listen people, shud know that with some folks you just can't win!... and then if you look really hard enough one can find that for such folks they usually say, 'When you really try hard and still can't get something - then.... well, ... aare yaar, 'Angoor khattae hein' aali khanai to suni hi hogee?.... :D:D:D

Anyways on a different vein;... another comic strip attached here to add some humor to the discussion... :rolleyes:;):cool:
 
bhai shalu (behen?) cartoon bahut bahdiya tha par naam ghoos dene waale ka likha hota sahe tha kyon ki angoor usnee khatee lagee seen. apne kabhi nahe ghoos dee aur passport bhi see. bhai kye tanne bhi ghoos de kar kam karwe the kya? kahaan see plagarize kiya cartoon ka format?
 
bhai shalu (behen?) cartoon bahut bahdiya tha par naam ghoos dene waale ka likha hota sahe tha kyon ki angoor usnee khatee lagee seen. apne kabhi nahe ghoos dee aur passport bhi see. bhai kye tanne bhi ghoos de kar kam karwe the kya? kahaan see plagarize kiya cartoon ka format?

Haan behen Amrita; mannae kahee thee na 'muh kohle mannya'; per eeb khudd apnae-aap nae 'Khraab' kahen laag rhya, tae phaer naam kae chkaraan mein kyalein pade sai! :D...

...:eek: Arae-teri, wo mara! 'plagarize', hein!???!.... ;) are o andee manas, yo ghnaa bada sa shabd kit-tae toh kae laya mere yaar!?! :D
[Aer Passport lene kae baad uspar visa bhi chaiyeh hota hai Jatland ki baawli-booch ;) per dekhiyeh, ghoos diye paachae bhi tere koi ude tae likdan dae konya!]
 
Haan behen Amrita; mannae kahee thee na 'muh kohle mannya'; per eeb khudd apnae-aap nae 'Khraab' kahen laag rhya, tae phaer naam kae chkaraan mein kyalein pade sai! :D...

...:eek: Arae-teri, wo mara! 'plagarize', hein!???!.... ;) are o andee manas, yo ghnaa bada sa shabd kit-tae toh kae laya mere yaar!?! :D
[Aer Passport lene kae baad uspar visa bhi chaiyeh hota hai Jatland ki baawli-booch ;) per dekhiyeh, ghoos diye paachae bhi tere koi ude tae likdan dae konya!]

ha ha bhai apne pass American passport see. Bharatiya kona.:D
 
I think Sid has given a correct angle to this debate. The lack of low-level corruption in the US is because of capitalism (I'd change the argument slightly and call it competition) and not because Americans are more morally upright or patriot. You take away competition and give too much power without clear accountability, and you'd see corruption. I am sure there would be corruption in the police in the US. Not of the kind where they catch you without helmet and ask you to pay 100 bucks. But where they have dealings with drug dealers.

Even in India, things have changed wherever competition is there. In 1980s, one couldn't get a landline in years without paying off several people. One can now own a mobile instantly and even a landline gets done much quickly (incidentally much more quickly than UK). Even if you are applying through MTNL. Earlier, they would make your phone go dead and you'd have to pay them money to get it to work again. Now, you don't even see them, just make a complaint and it gets done. It is because they have all these private companies threatening their very survival. They may still not be as good as the private companies (years of attitude doesn't change overnight), but they are much better than what they used to be. The same is not true of driving license, passport, etc, as there is no competition.

Competition is not a necessary condition. Corruption is massively reduced if you make it institutionally difficult to demand/offer bribes. For example, most of the Income Tax corruption in India is because of a system where IT officers have the power to personally contact specific individuals for tax collection. The power to raid is used to harass individuals. If you randomly assign IT officers to cases, then get them to contact the individual through email, letter or phone (recorded line), and give the power to raid only when absolutely necessary and through explicit court order, it'd change things. It is much difficult to accept or offer bribes when you know that your conversation is being recorded. Similarly, one sees a lot of corruption where one has to personally get the paper work done by contacting a multitude of agencies/individuals. Every additional step only increases the probability of money changing hands. Instead, there should be a single window system where you just submit your papers (preferrably to an outsourced firm). The rest should happen automatically within the organization without anyone "interacting" with you and finally you should just get a written response that your application is successful/rejected with the next steps if it has been rejected (to be again submitted through the single window). If you have to "appear" before any officer with your "case", that only provides an avenue to offer/solicit bribes. You cut the link and you reduce the bribing significantly.


u r rite abt the improved situation in BSNL nd MTNL...now they work much more efficiently....passport process is otherwise fast but many a times delayed by the police verification...nd u have to pay/contact ur way through for all other things...its great u mentioned IT...this department is so understaffed tht they r realizing lot less for the government than they should be doing...there r only 3.5 crore people who file ITR in India...can u believe it!!..nd its not tht all those who pay less or dont pay contact the IT inspector nd bribe him...some do but many (i mean the majority) just refuse to pay...i knw people who r in mortal fear of paying the tax...they wud rather prefer a raid nd pay in lump sum than pay it every year...can u google nd find out how much reliance communication paid as tax this year??...(i am not sure but i think it was just 2.2 crores...i m not an expert on IT laws but this sum seemed very low...maybe they hired really smart CAs)

the way i see it ...corruption has internalised in the Indian system nd psyche....we dont reject it rather welcome it nd look for ways to make a fast buck...nd its not limited to the govt offices....we can see it in the pvt offices too nd in the services tht have been privatised...i m not talking abt the profit making by the big corporates...but the "small time chalupanti" by the foot soldiers of these companies...u pick up any sector tht has been pvtsed -- communication, insurance, banks,airlines,cars manufacturing etc etc...u will find a large bunch waiting to take advantage of u not to make profits for their masters but to fill their own pockets...so pvtisation/capitalism is not exactly the cure.. the thinking has to be changed....the only positive is tht in case of corporate corruption...if u file a complaint against the culprit nd follow it diligently u might get him punished...but then again our mindset is such tht we dont always do a follow up...

ur idea abt lot less public dealing is a good one...
 
... Listen people, shud know that with some folks you just can't win!... and then if you look really hard enough one can find that for such folks they usually say, 'When you really try hard and still can't get something - then.... well, ... aare yaar, 'Angoor khattae hein' aali khanai to suni hi hogee?.... :D:D:D

Anyways on a different vein;... another comic strip attached here to add some humor to the discussion... :rolleyes:;):cool:

I laughed till i dropped on the ground. This is the first time I am seeing your comic strip. I think I missed your earlier ones as I had not been very regular with Jatland. I was able to see another great piece of your work on Moonlanding Hoax discussion... great job...
 
Actually, kharaab is right. Corruption in US is present but well hidden and sophisticated. And if you wanna decrease it, you gotta start with yourself. :)
 
.

:D .. Riot !! :D Hans Hans ke Lot Pot !! :D

As usual superb work by bro super shail . :cool:



... Listen people, shud know that with some folks you just can't win!... and then if you look really hard enough one can find that for such folks they usually say, 'When you really try hard and still can't get something - then.... well, ... aare yaar, 'Angoor khattae hein' aali khanai to suni hi hogee?.... :D:D:D

Anyways on a different vein;... another comic strip attached here to add some humor to the discussion... :rolleyes:;):cool:
 
lolz! :D:D
... Listen people, shud know that with some folks you just can't win!... and then if you look really hard enough one can find that for such folks they usually say, 'When you really try hard and still can't get something - then.... well, ... aare yaar, 'Angoor khattae hein' aali khanai to suni hi hogee?.... :D:D:D

Anyways on a different vein;... another comic strip attached here to add some humor to the discussion... :rolleyes:;):cool:
 
... Listen people, shud know that with some folks you just can't win!... and then if you look really hard enough one can find that for such folks they usually say, 'When you really try hard and still can't get something - then.... well, ... aare yaar, 'Angoor khattae hein' aali khanai to suni hi hogee?.... :D:D:D

Anyways on a different vein;... another comic strip attached here to add some humor to the discussion... :rolleyes:;):cool:

In a little more elaborative way "Never argue with an Idiot. First he will bring you down to his level and then will defeat you with his experience " :rock:rock:rock:rock
 
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