Jat and Religion

vijay123 said:
VP Singhji, why blame religious shrines or God for poverty or illiteracy? How one wants to pray is up to that person only. You would have heard this line so many times - ab sab kuch upar wale ke haath mei hai. When everything fails, people look for hope in God. Whether He exists or not is a different matter but He certainly can provide hope and willpower to fight on. Logon ke bhagwan ko yaad karne ke tareeke alag alag ho sakate hai par sabka aim ek hi hota hai.
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Vijay ji, I am too small a creature to question existence of any supernatural power or God. Well-known scientist Stephen Hawkin's recent controversial statement notwithstanding, I have no intention to question existence of any divine power or God. My simple argument was about showing off our religiosity and ways of worship. It is a matter of individual faith and one should have if it gives solace and succour. But, is it necessary to have a grand edifice for offering prayer. Respect and obeisance comes from heart and not from the temple or mosque. Therefore, purity of heart is more important than the place of worship. I do not think that God wants us to build magnificent temples and mosques for offering prayer to Him.
 
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ravichaudhary said:
RE post # 20

Upendraji

I would suggest you step back for a moment.

It is a matter of understanding, and getting an idea of how the ancient beliefs have evolved into current Hinduism.

Yes Shiva is a current Hindu Deity. Shiva is also a vey special deity to Jats. There are broadly two streams of Hinduism, Shaivism and Vaishnavism. There are other streams too; some will give the Mata (Devi) prominence. Others will focus on Parmathma. Arya Samaj will focus on the last one.


Overall Hinduism today is a vast accommodating philosophical system.


I quoted Ram Swaroop Joon, as he put his mind to and documented his thinking in his history book. His perspective was of 80- 100 years ago.

He is not, I think, all that far off the mark.

This is not to say that some Jats do not follow the Vaishnav stream, but the majority would see as their deity of choice and many if not the majority would follow the Arya Samaj principles.

There are certain religious customs that are at the core of the Jats beliefs

1) Ancestor worship. A regard for the ancestors, ‘pitrs’. The Jats made small statues which they put in the orchard graves near theory villages. These were called Devta abodes. Regular ceremonies were carried out here. This still continues. At the occasions of marriage, birth, death etc.

2) There was a general lack of ‘mandirs’/temples. At most a small temple existed for Shivaji.

3) The Vaishnav stream, deified Ramchandraji and Krishnaji. Were these historical figures? I am increasingly inclined to think they were.

4) Where did Hanumanji and other deities evolve, and how did the Jat psyche react to, absorb them.



These are some common tenets with current Hindus.

There were and are differences too.

1) The Jats never accepted the Hindu hierarchical Varna (caste) system of Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, and Shudra...

2) The Jat custom of widow re marriage was the anti thesis of Hindu thought.

3) The Jats respected people of learning, and called them Brahmin. They did not accept that the Brahmin caste had any divine right.


Chotu Ram wrote his religion as Vedic not Hindu. Vedic is closer to traditional Jat belief than Hinduism.

Yes, many of us, if asked, would say ‘we are Hindus’. We would add some caveats.
These are some of my thoughts, others may add

Ravi Chaudhary
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A nice explaination.

Another point to keep in mind while discussing mythology is that - Hindu/Hinduism as a word and definition is not mythological. It had been coined by invaders from arabic origion who couldn't speak S of Sindhu which means people living in and around Sindhu river. Hindu , you woudn't find in scriptures.
 
वी.पी. सिंह जी, ये जाति-धर्म, मंदिर-मस्जिद का मसला तब तक समाप्त नहीं होगा, जब तक इंसान में एक-दूसरे से श्रेष्ठ होने की होड़ समाप्त नहीं होगी और ऐसा कभी नहीं होगा.
 
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As I think, Religion is nothing but a way of life, there is no connection between The God & The Religion except the way one remember/ extend thanks/ pray to the God. Religion connects an individual with other people who follow the similar way of life, where as spiritualty is a matter of an individual. To find the God/the highest power, one has to understand self where as the religion is a basically social in nature. True God/Bhagwan is( Bhumy+Gagan+Wayu+Agni+Neer). Shiva, Rama, Krishan, Vishanu etc were good people who showed certain path/ way to the people, They were basically good leaders not Gods. Waite very soon many of present day leaders will certainly occupy place of worship in temples, in gujarat Gandhi temple is under construction, Mayawati has taken lead, Lalu Chalisa is already published, Indira will replace Durga etc. It being a very long discussion, we leave it here and consider other issue please.

A suggestion please:- It is true that jats way of life & thinking is certainly different than followers of Brahamanical Sanatan Dharam. Our way of life, thinking, liking, practices, traditions etc are like or more close to Vedas that is why we adopted Ariya samaj easily. Therefore, why dont we wear the religious cloth of Vedic Dharam, from inside we are already vedic. We should worship Vedas & our elders including Shiva, Ram, Krishana, family elders etc. We should train our people to become religious teachers who should do further research on vedas & educate us. Once the idea is accepted by our people other matters can be shortedout.Lateron. Your valuable views please. Regards
 
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AnkurMalik said:
Bhai Jat muslim the pehle. Hindu dharam to humne pakistan se alag hone ke baad apnaya hai.Azadi ke baad kuch Jat to pakistan chale gaye the aur jo Bharat mei reh gaye the unhone ya to araya samaj apnaya ya phirr hindu dharam mei tabdeel ho gaye
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What is this? Even the choice of words you use (e.g. Tabdeel) is suspect.
 
IMO, Jats heritage has been republican, sun worshippers, more vedic, Hindu and Buddhist and recently Sikh. Those who could nto stand up to muslim invaders became mulla jat and those who bravely fought still continues to be Hindus and Sikhs.

I am yet to come across a peer-reviewed empirical study that either proves or disproves the existence of God. hence, I am opened minded either way and will let the data presented influence my decision making. Though religion is an areas I have not actively pursed though I have been significantly influenced exposed to it, predominantly Hinduism and Arya Samaj. Those interested in more intellectual exploration of this topic and not dogmatic about their belief, I suggest the following article by noted Bollywood story writer and lyricist Javed Akhtar, scroll down to this link and click on INDIA TODAY ENCLAVE http://www.javedakhtar.com/inner/interview.html

I also saw, a note in the earlier posts about diminishing influence of political and religious nexus. It may be true, except in case of Islam which the notable Muslim ladies allege to be the 'Theo-Politico Doctrine of Hatred'

Ayaan Hirasi Ali - daughter of Ethopian muslim ex-Deputy PM, Now a Minister in Swedish government
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0txwUT8Csh4

Dr Wafa Sultan - Seriyan Muslim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM4ODjVMc2s

Noonie Darwesh - Egyptian Muslim Lady whose father led terror attacks against Jews including man and women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7zGcYaNKTI&feature=related
 
The biggest enemy of an individual is ignorance @ biggest enemy of society , allover the world, is contractor of religion. Anyway on jat religion

I REQUESTED FOR YOUR OPENION IN MY PREVIOUS POST, THIS IS A REMINDER REQUEST TO ALL BROTHERS
 

Religion:
As already mentioned in previous posts religion is a way of life............I agree with it, but like everything its about time that religion changes and evolves. Religion has to be modernised as per the demands of the hour...which is to help the poor and less deprived, look after Mother Nature, fight corruption and inhuman people. People can choose a cause r and should spend time on working on that cause rather than spending hours listening to some mahatma lecturing about the basics of life.
We should be giving our kids lessons of respect and humanity and make them true humans. I don’t know how many of you would agree......but practical and logical approach towards life has to be applied. At the same time fear of God should always be there.
Caste and discrimination has to go. Over capitalism has to go out of our lives. Donating in the name of religion thinking god is going to be happy? I don’t understand this at all.

All I am trying to say is lets create a new way of life.....Lets be the leaders. I am sure the satisfaction one can get by serving a cause is far more than building those temples or sitting in them.
 
sanskrit word "dharma" is not same as western and islamic "religion" where monotheistic is prevalent. "dharma" is a way of life that is not entirely dependent on a single source or strictly follows norms set up and written in a single book, "dharma" is quite flexible not rigid as "religion". Religion is somewhat following a single book and a single person teachings and is true for muslims, christians and sikhs. Hinduism was never and will never be a "religion".
 
prashantacmet said:
sanskrit word "dharma" is not same as western and islamic "religion" where monotheistic is prevalent. "dharma" is a way of life that is not entirely dependent on a single source or strictly follows norms set up and written in a single book, "dharma" is quite flexible not rigid as "religion". Religion is somewhat following a single book and a single person teachings and is true for muslims, christians and sikhs. Hinduism was never and will never be a "religion".
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What is the Sanskrit/Hindi translation of religion, if not 'dharma'.
 
Shibani said:
Religion:
As already mentioned in previous posts religion is a way of life............I agree with it, but like everything its about time that religion changes and evolves. Religion has to be modernised as per the demands of the hour...which is to help the poor and less deprived, look after Mother Nature, fight corruption and inhuman people. People can choose a cause r and should spend time on working on that cause rather than spending hours listening to some mahatma lecturing about the basics of life.
We should be giving our kids lessons of respect and humanity and make them true humans. I don’t know how many of you would agree......but practical and logical approach towards life has to be applied. At the same time fear of God should always be there.
Caste and discrimination has to go. Over capitalism has to go out of our lives. Donating in the name of religion thinking god is going to be happy? I don’t understand this at all.

All I am trying to say is lets create a new way of life.....Lets be the leaders. I am sure the satisfaction one can get by serving a cause is far more than building those temples or sitting in them.
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Very mature thoughts, Sibani. Religion is nothing more than a set of values invented and drafted by a particular social group to govern itself smoothly and to discourage immoral and unethical acts by the members of the group. These values/religious scriptures guide us through in our actions and help us to distinguish between good and bad. This set of values has to keep pace with constantly changing circumstances, material conditions and social behaviour and need modifications from time to time. However, it often happens that the above-mentioned set of values is not allowed to be modified according to changed time and environment, by some ignorant, selfish, and superstitious bigots. I think Jats are the least superstitious race but still some ignorance about religion prevails due to lack of education.
 
Samarkadian said:
http://veda.wikidot.com/dharma-and-religion

Religion is a Western concept; the Indian concept is neither religion nor even Hinduism nor any ‘ism’ — it is Sanatana Dharma, the eternal law of the universe, which cannot be formulated in any rigid and final set of tenets.”

— Michel Danino

This may surely help in breaking this confusion.
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Interpretations differ from person to person. Only the language differ, connotations are same. You may call it religion, dharam, dharma or Sanatana Dharam, it is same thing. Go on google and you will find the literal translation of religion as dharam.
 
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vpsingh said:
I think Jats are the least superstitious race but still some ignorance about religion prevails due to lack of education.
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Jats are still the least superstitious race.They motive is to burn there energy and there livelihood.They believe in Panch TATVA.Now the time is changing.Pandey,pujariun kee roji rotee chalaney kaa bhee zeema thaa liyaa jat biradaree ney.Sabko pata hai Tahmann to JAT hee taravega.
 
सम्प्रदाय is not religion neither is dhrama. Actually, we dont have a word for it because we dont have 'ISM'. However now a days due to lot of cross translations people have started using Dhrama = Religion. Islam, Christianity, and Jews are almost same with some minor difference. Their base is same. They basically differ on a couple of 'prophets' or son of God. As per Islam God cannot Has Son/daughter where as christians dont agree and believe Jesus was the son of GOD. Muslim regard him as a prophet and he is mentioned in Kuran as well. Christians dont agree on Mohamad being the last prophet. However they can marry each other without being converted. All other old dhramas or way of life are finished now except our. Like Arabs use to do ancestor/tribal worship and 'murti pooja' till Mohammad and his followers destroyed them. Islam believe God cannot be described and hence no murti can be made of GOD. Even imaginning the form of God is Gunah for them. Some islamic concepts has influenced some Hindu/Hindustani sects as well.

Hindu Dhram is much more rich than all other, I believe.
 
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vpsingh said:
Very mature thoughts, Sibani. Religion is nothing more than a set of values invented and drafted by a particular social group to govern itself smoothly and to discourage immoral and unethical acts by the members of the group. These values/religious scriptures guide us through in our actions and help us to distinguish between good and bad. This set of values has to keep pace with constantly changing circumstances, material conditions and social behaviour and need modifications from time to time. However, it often happens that the above-mentioned set of values is not allowed to be modified according to changed time and environment, by some ignorant, selfish, and superstitious bigots. I think Jats are the least superstitious race but still some ignorance about religion prevails due to lack of education.
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Thanks VPSingh Ji,
I agree that we are the least superstitious caste and therefore have the potential to bring a revolutionay change to this RELIGION definition. I am a believer of change as it is the only CHANGE IS THE ONLY CONSTANT IN WORLD. Therefore the sooner we change for betterment of human and every living thing we prove that we are superior.

I have been reading this thread and various other threads where we as in JATS are all trying to prove ourselves as being superiors.....agreed on few levels we are....but that was history and now its about time we prove once again we are superior by working on the real issues. Those that we can solve with our strength and power.

I think jatland has provided us a great platform to get together and discuss issues and various other things. I will be really interested in seeing a real change. I am all for it.

Oh also VPSingh Ji thanks for ur appreciation. I have to say there is a lot to learn from you. I have been going through your posts and admire your thoughts
 
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