Jat are low caste- (taught in American Colleges)

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ravichaudhary

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People often ask (fellow Jats too that is) why I take try and bring out a positive view of our history, and urge them to take an interest in our history and culture.

They ask what it has got to do with them?

They quite happy to live in their splendid quiet corners, happy and oblivious to all around them.

To them they are Jats, a symbol of strength, a leader, action, etc etc. To be a Jat is enough and for them to know that is enough too.They are comfortable with their identity – just to be a Jat is enough.

For some time now I have been readers attention to the fact that a number of persons, are writing against the Jats, and these views are entering international academia, and that is what students are being taught, a negative view of us Jats.

A little like Jats are low caste and Sudras, as taught in India.

People like Nonica Dutta, are now authorities on Jat history and culture.

Below is a URL and a short excerpt of what is being taught in American universities about the Jats.

Another common very common theme is that Jats are Gypsies, Banjaras.

You can say all you are not, all you want , but that is what the person you are talking to thinks, for that is what he/she is taught is school, and college.

I am going to suggest, that members pay some attention to this, and not take it so casually.

The importance will be when your children come back and ask you, “ Daddy am I low caste? am I a Gypsy? am I a Banjara ?, and you will have no answer to give”

In the case of this New York College.

The teacher seems to be one Mohen Naorem.

Perhaps some senior members, can take the time to educate this person and have him correct his curriculum.

How ??

Write to him, have a meeting with him, give him material, change his views.


Ravi Chaudhary

P.S, Admittedly this task of conveying a positive view of our community becomes a little difficult when the website of Jatland.com itself portrays a negative image. We must change this.

*********************
See Below:

http://www.nycollege.org/studymaterials/studyguides/historyofmedievalindia



1.htmORIGIN OF RAJPUTS
SHORT HISTORY OF MEDIEVAL INDIA - Study Guide
SUBJECT CODE - IS350
BY - MOHEN NAOREM


Contents:
THE MIDDLE AGE
ORIGIN OF RAJPUTS

The term 'Rajput' does not occur in the earlier Sanskrit literature. They were a later addition to the population of India. During the troubled times that followed the break-up of the Gupta Empire, many foreign races such as the Huns, the Gurjaras, etc., had settled in the Punjab and the Rajputana and became Hindu. The upper ranks of these foreigners, whose main occupation were war, came to be known as the Rajputs while the lower ranks in social status with inferior caste were developed into Gurjaras, Jats etc. Those ruling classes which were always engaged in wars and the government as their chief occupation came to be known as the Kshatriyas. Thee Rajputs were split into up into various clans (or states) each under a hereditary Raja. There were about 36 Rajput clans. There was neither central government nor any efficient system of administration. All land was supposed to belong to the Raja or the ruling chief, who distributed it among his smaller chiefs. These smaller chiefs paid fixed annual revenue and rendered military service to the Raja in return for the land granted to them. Village affairs were managed by the Panchayats.
 
Birodkar

Sudheer Birodkar has a website, which is attractive, colorful, and becoming increasingly popular as a source on Indian History, It is a also listed as teaching resource in a number of schools in the USA.

His theme, is resistance to the Muslims was by the Rajputs. The Jat kingdoms, Tomar, Chauhan, Gahadwalas, are depicted as Rajput.(they are all Jats, and until the 15th century knew of themselves and wrote of themselves as Jats). It is only later that some , who followed ‘Brahminical’ thinking, started to call themselves Rajput.
In his version Jats figure at the time of Abdalli’s invasion on India.( 17th century), and are denigrated

Here is what Sudheer Birodkar has to say.

Ravi Chaudhary


HINDU HISTORY - A Search for Our Present in History – Sudheer Birodkar
http://www.hindubooks.org/sudheer_birodkar/hindu_history/landmaratha.html


The 3rd Battle of Panipat

When Abdali launched his second invasion in 1759 the Marathas who after their successes in 1756 had been hibernating in Maharashtra and Central India again woke up and in alliance with the Jat King Suraj Mal of Bharatpur formed an alliance. This alliance led by Shrimant Sadshiv Rao Bhau and Shrimant Vishwas Rao (the Peshwa Shrimant Balaji Baji Rao's son) won spectacular victories and captured Delhi and Kunjapura (where the Afghan treasury and armoury was located). Here the alliance developed cracks due to the Maratha insistence on not allowing the Jats to loot Delhi. This ultimately split the alliance and Suraj Mal withdrew from the alliance. The Marathas consequently marched upto Panipat, but instead of continuing their attacks to completely defeat the partly defeated Abdali and Najib Khan, they stayed put at Panipat, blocking the way of the Afghans back to Afghanistan. Seeing their way back to their homeland blocked, the Afghans now became restless. They in turn, decided to block the way of the Marathas back into the Deccan.

Stand-off for one year

This stand-off continued for one whole year from the 14th of January 1760 up to the 14th of January 1761. This led to the fall in the morale of the stranded Marathas and ultimatley led to their defeat at Panipat. The Marathi term "Sankrant Kosalali" meaing "Sankranth has befallen us" comes from this event. During this stand-off the Afghans cut-off all supplies to the huge Maratha army. The Afghans with Najib Khan meanwhile also recaptured Delhi and Kunjpura. On the decisive day of 14th January 1761 (Makar Sankranti), the Marathas decided to break-through the Afghan blockade and re-enter Deccan. The disastrous battle saw about one hundred thousand Maratha troops being slaughtered in a matter of eight hours. But the Afghans too suffered heavy losses and decided enough was enough and went back to Afghanistan never to return to India.
 
Birodkar

Ravi Chaudhary (Oct 16, 2003 03:12 p.m.):
Sudheer Birodkar has a website, which is attractive, colorful, and becoming increasingly popular as a source on Indian History, It is a also listed as teaching resource in a number of schools in the USA.

I wrote to Sudheer Birodkar

as below:

-- ravi <ravi9@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
Mr Birodkar
>
> You have the following on your site:
>
> "Here the alliance developed cracks due to the
> Maratha insistence on not allowing the Jats to loot
> Delhi. This ultimately split the alliance and Suraj
> Mal withdrew from the alliance. "
>
> I do think you should get your history straight,
> and stop maligning the Jats.
>
> The facts are the maharattas did loot Delhi, and
> destroy the silver roof.
>
> The refused to follow Suraj Mulls advice , to fight
> a gueriila war, and not to insult denigrate the few
> muslims who were siding with them against Abdalli.
>
> Sadashiv Bhau refused, and tried to capture
> Surakmall. He got wind of this plot and escaped.
>
> Even so 25,000 Jats from the Sarv Khap of Haryana laid
> down their lives.The battle of Panipat would have
> been won, but for foolish Maharatta arrogance.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/53
>
> You may wish to check the original sources.
>
> Ravi Chaudhary
Click to expand...
 
Sudheer was king enough to reply promptly
>>>>


From :

sudheer birodkar <sudheerbirodkar@yahoo.com>

reply To:
sudheer@mail.com

To :

ravi <ravi9@hotmail.com>

Subject :

Re:

Date :

Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:27:12 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Ravi Ji,

Maybe on Suraj Mal, what you say is right, I have
referred to Maratha sources. Maybe these sources are
wrong as they are baised towards Marathas. Inspite of
being a Maratha I guess what you say could be right,
we Marathas did many foolish things and did not take
the Jats and Rajputs with us...only if the battle of
Panipat had been won by a united Hindu army, India
would have been different today

.....anyway I shall correct the record on the site by
writing to the webmasters.

I have created the content of this site which has been
mirrored on more than fifty servers to which I do not
have modification right, so the change may take some
time.

Thanks for writing

Sudheer
-
 
RAVI JI
Why not write how the honour of Maratha women was saved by RANI KISORI of Bharatpur.
BHAU WAS SO ASAMED THAT HE BECAME SADHU IN HARYANA AND DIED IN VILLAGE SANGHI- DIST ROHTAK_ HARYANA.
Dharmpal
YOU GOT MY MESSAGE ON THIS SITE & YAHOO HISTORY GROUP IN DETAILS
 
Sudheer Birodkar

Here ss a reply I sent to him:


*******************
Sudheer



Thank you for your prompt and courteous reply



I am in agreement with you. With Unity, the 3rd battle of Panipat would have gone another way.



I do appreciate the thrust of your site, and the wonderful work you have done. Do keep it up.



If you do not mind, I will express my disagreements from time to time, not with an intention to get into useless arguments, but to see if something positive can come out.



First I am also going to invite you to join the Jathistory group URL below:



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/



I have attached your email to it.



If you are getting too many e mails, already, just visit "Edit your membership", and change the default to "no email" or send me an email, and i will make the change.



You may also be interested in knowing what happened to the Bhau

See Message :



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/56



There is also a photo of the actual letter sent by the Bhau to the Haryana Sarv Khap asking for help. The original is still in their records.



See : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/423



Maybe you could incorporate some of this in your site. I would like to see positive information, of how the Jats and Mahrattas cooperated, and had there been more the History of our
ation would have taken a different turn.



We still need that cooperation and unity- more so now than ever before.



Best regards



Ravi
 
Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Oct 16, 2003 04:42 p.m.):
RAVI JI
Why not write how the honour of Maratha women was saved by RANI KISORI of Bharatpur.
BHAU WAS SO ASAMED THAT HE BECAME SADHU IN HARYANA AND DIED IN VILLAGE SANGHI- DIST ROHTAK_ HARYANA.
Dharmpal
YOU GOT MY MESSAGE ON THIS SITE & YAHOO HISTORY GROUP IN DETAILS
Click to expand...


***************

Dear Dudhee sahib,

It is your very valuable infrmation and posting I have quoted in my second E mail, please see below:

Quote:"

"" You may also be interested in knowing what happened to the Bhau
See Message :

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/56 “

Full message:

From: dharmpal dudee <dharmpaluk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Mon Dec 23, 2002 9:37 am
Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Re: Jats, Maharattas, and the Battle of Panipat


Sadashiv rao bhau
became monk- sadhu after the defeat in battle of
Panipat. He was died in SANGHI village in ROHTAK
DISTRICT.His Samadhi is in village Sanghi now.
Maharaja Surajmal- Maharani Kisori took care of
defeated maratha army & helpless women folk.They spent
40 lakhes rupees for food& clothes for 40 days.
The women were returned safe to Poona under JAT army
guard. Maharani Kisoridevi went with them for security
reason.
The marathas are very gtateful to jats for those acts
of humanity until now.

END ************
 
Jats are low caste, banjaras, violent, plunderers.

This is a recurring theme in Indian literature, and Indian History books.

This is what is taught in the schools, and forms the image of our community in society.

If we are to change that image, it is necessary to win the battle at the curriculum level, by changing what is written in the history books, and on the Internet sites.

In the West, which is the most influential place to be, the curriculums are woefully weak on Indian and Hindu culture. Hinduism is worship of monkeys and elephants. Then are four castes, Brahmins, Kshatriyas (read -Rajputs ), Vaisyas, and Shudras.

Jats fall into number 4 or at best 3.

Now if that is what is taught through school, and university, that is what the student will teach in their turn to the next generation.

How do you counter it?

By being pro active, by fighting the battle, at the curriculum level.

The Analogy of USA Think Tanks :-

An analogy is the India – Pakistan Conflict. A few years ago the Indians decided (finally) that they had to fight the battle at the Think Tanks in the USA, for it is these Think Tanks, that advise the govt on Policy, and in fact formulate it.

These Think tanks are funded by the US government, and attached to various universities; their members are research scholars.

People like Steve Cohen, Richard Hass, and Richard Armitage; in fact all high profile advisors to the US government are part of the think tanks. They spend their time developing position papers and briefing the senators and government officials.

A continuous stream of scholars, visiting, participating in seminars, writing research papers, and lobbying these think Tanks has resulted in a different understanding on India today compared to five years ago.

We cannot fight stereotyping and people painting a negative picture, with hot air and bombast.

We must have facts at our disposal.

The Sudheer Birodkar example is one good example of positive interaction.
In the exchange we brought together excerpts from Prof Dabas’s book, and Dudhee Sahib’s valuable information.

This all went to Sudheer, and his positive response you have seen. We could have simply complained, wrung our hands, but this was a pro-active approach.

It would not have worked without hard solid material.

DEVELOPING SOLID MATERIAL - Projecting a positive image- The (Yahoo) Jathistory group:
( we need more such initiatives)

Readers will recall, that the JATHISTORY site was formed for discussion of Jat related historical topics, with the outside world, and to reclaim our history heritage.

The membership was open to all, for it is non-Jats who need to be taught our history. For those who have been following the discussions there, will have noted that there are no great arguments brought up when the Jat contributions to the Vedas are pointed out, or that every Rajput dynasty was actually Jat, but termed Rajput by self serving casteist Indian historians.

In our complacency we allowed them to get away with it too.

Today in the group we have about 150 members.

We have scholars from Argentina to USA to Europe to New Zealand, not to mention scholars and ordinary members like me from everywhere else. Recently Dr Paola Raffetta, of Buenos Aires, Argentina joined the group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/985

She is a scholar, with a deep interest in Central Asia, an abode of us Jats in Times gone by.
If scholars like her, who are unbiased, can see our history the way we see it, and start to propagate it , we will have made a major step forward.

Our Jat history is now also being discussed in another group - Kushans

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kushanas/

and there too we have influenced the thinking of International scholars.

This is an excellent scholarly group with people like Professor William Sims, of the prestigious School of Oriental Studies in London, UK, John Hill, and others as members.

There has been some argument, as we have put our Jats perspective forward, that 'Kushan' is but a clan name of the Jats, and the famous Emperor Kaniska was a Jat, and the empire stretched from beyond Afghanistan to Orrisa.

That is being quite well received, and members who are corresponding with us are accepting that so far they have not had an in-depth cultural knowledge of the Getae or Jats and that simply using Chinese terms like "Yueh Chi” is incorrect and they should pronounce/ spell the name the way the Jat Kushans did, and use the term Jut, Jat, Juti.

Obviously there was/is some resistance, when the information is presented to people set in their ways, but facts eventually do prevail.

I will urge readers to visit these sites.


I am going to suggest that, those members who can, take an interest, go through the archives on the Jatland site, and the Jathistory site, and use it to good advantage.

HOW AND WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP?

1. Visit the site.
2. Read the material
3. Choose what you like, and e-mail, print send, the material to your friends and family. I.e. Increase the awareness. Urge them to join the groups, set up their own anything the like, but please get involved.

4.When you run into derogatory sites or material post it in the Jatland or Jathistory site, so that we can develop a strategy to counter the negative material.

The more people that get involved the better result we will have.

Any suggestions??

Ravi Chaudhary
 
Namaste,

Ravi is right. We must do something about it. Everytime i searched on internet to know more about jats, i found jats negative image also.

It would be good to write a new book and publisize it around the world. Nonica Dutta selected this jat theme as her PhD project while she was in England. But she don't know much about them. She was my sister's friend for a short period of time when she was writing this book. To me it appeared that she didn't go much into the detail while preparing her thesis, and because she had good contacts it was not difficult for her to get her thesis published as a book.

Well, we must try to build our new image and not what others say that all our glorious past is imaginary or made up.

Nikhil
 
Yajvendra Singh (Oct 29, 2003 08:53 a.m.):
Namaste,

Ravi is right. We must do something about it. Everytime i searched on internet to know more about jats, i found jats negative image also.

It would be good to write a new book and publisize it around the world. Nonica Dutta selected this jat theme as her PhD project while she was in England. But she don't know much about them. She was my sister's friend for a short period of time when she was writing this book. To me it appeared that she didn't go much into the detail while preparing her thesis, and because she had good contacts it was not difficult for her to get her thesis published as a book.

Well, we must try to build our new image and not what others say that all our glorious past is imaginary or made up.

Nikhil
Click to expand...

hellonikhil@hotmail.com


Yagvendra

Nonica Datta wrote a Book” The Jats- Forming an identity”.

It was rehash of her PhD. Thesis.

I found it unscholarly, and restricted to some information on Jats in two districts of Haryana, for 150 years upto 1925.

According to her before that they did not have an identity, and were known as Robbers bandits and by other epithets.

I also found her overall quite negative, in her book and her articles.

I gather her father V N Datta, was a professor of history in Kurukshetra university, and also very anti Jat. She comes across as very pro Muslim.

She in JNU, and became part of the Islamic – Marxist group which dominated Indian history over the last 50 years- people like Irfan Habib, Munshirul Hasan, Romilla Thapar, Shireen Bhatnagar etc

She got through them a scholarship to England, wrote a shallow thesis, and returned to India, where she is now an expert and authority on Jathistory.

Worse she is also an expert for Western Academic Institutions, and her negative book is in every Library in every US University.

I have posted some excerpts form her book, and her articles on the History section of the website, See pages 6, 7, 8 .

Do please go through them.

Any feedback how we can change her mindset will be much appreciated.

Ravi Chaudhary
 
Shekhar Nehra (Nov 09, 2003 10:34 a.m.):
Here are some links that give some idea about the study:
http://www.hindu.com/seta/2003/11/06/stories/2003110600050200.htm
http://www.india-seminar.com/2000/495/495%20k.%20suresh%20singh.htm


Do we have a similar scientific study about Jats ( or even Results of this study related to Jats). It would be very nice, if some member can reflect on this topic.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The work was done under the guidance of one K S Singh, who apparently was the director of the ASI.

I had occasion to look at it, and see the section on the Jats, and other groups.

It is the usual litany of castist Indian thought , about which groups are superior to which , which group of Brahmins can accept gifts from whom, The play is basically Brahmin- Rajput, with extensive sections devoted to both groups.

The section on Jats is brief and denigratory. They are low caste.

One comment sticks in my mind form memory:

The editors do not think highly of the Jat custom of Widow remarriage for a lady of marriageable age. They run the custom down and describe a Jat lady as’ Sada Suhagan”

Slightly depressing.

What is troubling is this is a travesty of Jat culture. Even more troubling is that volume has the authoritative stamp of the “government of India” as an official publication, and as \such it is a standard reference work for academicians and researchers.

Probably every prestigious US University has a copy, guess what they are teaching their students about Jats.

If enough people can become concerned, then we can start to become a little more activist, and change what is taught in US and other Universities about us.

Ravi
 
How positive interaction can change attitudes.

Please see Mr B\irodkar's reply belowm, and subsequent discussions on the Jathistory site

*********sudheer birodkar <sudheerbirodkar@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun Nov 9, 2003 10:45 pm
Subject: Re: [JatHistory] Jat Mahratta relations- 3rd battle of Panipat



We Marathas will remain forever grateful to the Jats
for the following:

“A few soldiers of Raja Bhau's army instigated the
Bhau
saying, "Sujan, Jat of Bharatpur, is only a peasant's
son. What
knowledge of war he has got? He has known farming
only."

“The expenditure made on their behalf would be borne
by the state and
in the entire state of Haryana the Marathas were
greeted more than
hermits and saints.”

“The people of Haryana erected a shrine (a samadhi) in
honour of
the Bhau at, an annual fair (a mela) is still held
there today.”

We hope that the following attitude is never repeated
again:

“A few soldiers of Raja Bhau's army instigated the
Bhau
saying, "Sujan, Jat of Bharatpur, is only a peasant's
son. What
knowledge of war he has got? He has known farming
only."

The first sign of Arrogance is the last sign of Wisdom
and the gateway to disaster – as happened on the 14th
of January 1761..leading to a disaster which we Indian
still have to avenge.
 
In this regard , I would like to convey one message to Prof. Mohen that he should first read the book "Life in A North Indian Village" Written by Dr. Oscar Lewis in 1940s. This book is widely taught in US and tells every thing about jats.
 
arun dabas (Nov 27, 2003 02:09 a.m.):
In this regard , I would like to convey one message to Prof. Mohen that he should first read the book "Life in A North Indian Village" Written by Dr. Oscar Lewis in 1940s. This book is widely taught in US and tells every thing about jats.
Click to expand...

Arun

Thank you

we need more information like this.

Which university uses this book.

Do you have the publisher, ISBn number

Many thanks

Ravi
 
Ravi,
Our brothers and sisters in the US can easily have this book. The link is given below

www.royoung.com/cgi-bin/ryb455/9047.html

and

countrystudies.us/india/90.htm

This book is known as bible of Anthropology and sociology. Ask this Man (Mohen) to go through this book. This book has been published by University of Illinoise
 
***************************>>>>>>>>....
***************************>>>>>>>>....

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY RUBBISH that JATS are low cast.

I don't think nobody in this world can even compare with JATS.
JATS are of the HIGHEST CAST in this whole universe.
Don't talk what prescribed in History.
Who wrote the History "a man" & most of them are non JATS so they wrote whatever they wanted to.
I believe in myself not in History.

I lived in the Hostel for four years & I was the only JAT there. Most of them were Thakurs & Pandits. They challenged me so many times in various fields. I show them what I am & let them be shy on themselves.
They never talked to me loudly & who tried, has got so many gifts of mukka & laats from me. They also tried to show that they are very sharpminded
than others but ironically result was the same.
In Ist sem I got very bad marks among lowest but in the final sem I got highest marks in my branch i.e. after a challenge.
However I am not too brilliant but at least more than these bluddy so called Rajputs & Pandits ( na shakal na surat bat unchi unchi).

Let them say whatever they want to & show them what we are.


Create History.
Read History but don't mistake it or be trapped in it.
JAT is JAT yaar. Why we make it smaller by attaching it with Rajputs.

What is cast. Cast means a group of people with some specific characterstics. And ranking of casts is based upon their FAIRNESS, MIND, BODY STRUCTURE, SOCIETY, WORK etc.
I think in the first four nobody can compare with JATS. Now in work JATS mostly indulged in the FARMING. However there are so many casts in INDIA are in farming but everybody knows nobody can defeat JATS in it but JATS can defeat others in there work i.e. in business(BANIYAS), ruling(RAJPUTS), teaching(BRAHMANS) etc.

So, I declare JATS are at the top.

No Rajput, Baniya or Brahmin was able to overcome the problem of Reservation. But JATS solved that by entering in it with a very good preplanned strategy.
JATS are being called KISAN by other to show JATS that they are superior but JATS used this word to get Reservation. Now everybody (Rajput, Brahmin, Baniyas etc) is crying & shouting for getting Reservation. HAHAHAHA!!!

so
#########THE HIGHEST CAST is #########


...........********..........**.........***********
.................*...............*...*..................*........
.................*..............*.....*.................*.........
............*...*.............******................*.........
............*...*............*.........*...............*..........
..............**............*...........*..............*........

However I also fell in love with a Rajput girls but nobody above JATS. This was also a challenge which got converted into love.

-bye
so many things to discuss.
anytime later.

Bado ko Pranam.
Yaaro ko Hello.
Chhotto ko love.
-RAHUL
 
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