Jat Identity :: Jaati Ya Dharm ?

Which identity is close to you ?

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जात की पहचान जाती से है । धर्म से नहीं। ओर हंमे इसके सुधार के लिए कम करना चाहिए॰
 
Prikshit said:
Your points are taken Fateh ji, I will ponder over it before making any other remarks.

Onw more thing would you mind citing few examples where we are consider "Socially low"
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Earlier, jats were considered little batter than yadav, gujjars, malies, etc and much higher than various so called backward classes but now they all consider themselves much batter than jats and seconded/ prefered by various socially higher communties, secondly when one goes down economically, his social status is automatically get effected adversely, thirdly the family/community which doesnot have unity, the social status of such family/community always takes dip. Brother, the status of community is measured in comperision to other communities and what other communities generally feel about such community.regards
 
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If you look at in broder manner you wil find all gotra in all cast or jatti. In the middele or start of 8th 9th century some stupid people come in to power and they want to keep their poer with them selves so they destroyes cast on the basis of work and put stamp & fixed that time trade based cast.They start hiding our fore fathers invention and those people were unable to add some values to that because of this our invention by our forefathers distroyed and of same type of people start saying gujjar, jat or rajput etc but those all were same at that time some of them start doing milk work they star saying them gujjar and ask them to do same work to their childrens.
Second thing they start making those lobby uneducated so that they will not ask or fight for their rights.
Now also we are having such type of ruling and future of our country is in dark.
Making delhi or some cities shiner will not solve our motto. All villages and man should have learned and able to generate their livelihood is firt task of our government.
Divide and rule polits is one tool of such type of ruler and they using it. Reservaation is also one tool which they are using to divide us.
Our people are also short tem oppurtuinist and will always in loss in long term.

Fateh said:

Earlier, jats were considered little batter than yadav, gujjars, malies, etc and much higher than various so called backward classes but now they all consider themselves much batter than jats and seconded/ prefered by various socially higher communties, secondly when one goes down economically, his social status is automatically get effected adversely, thirdly the family/community which doesnot have unity, the social status of such family/community always takes dip. Brother, the status of community is measured in comperision to other communities and what other communities generally feel about such community.regards
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Dear Mr. Manoj Pawaria
You have posted that:
"If you look at in broder manner you wil find all gotra in all cast or jatti. In the middele or start of 8th 9th century some stupid people come in to power and they want to keep their poer with them selves so they destroyes cast on the basis of work and put stamp & fixed that time trade based cast.They start hiding our fore fathers invention and those people were unable to add some values to that because of this our invention by our forefathers distroyed and of same type of people start saying gujjar, jat or rajput etc but those all were same at that time some of them start doing milk work they star saying them gujjar and ask them to do same work to their childrens.
Second thing they start making those lobby uneducated so that they will not ask or fight for their rights.
Now also we are having such type of ruling and future of our country is in dark.
Making delhi or some cities shiner will not solve our motto. All villages and man should have learned and able to generate their livelihood is firt task of our government.
Divide and rule polits is one tool of such type of ruler and they using it. Reservaation is also one tool which they are using to divide us.
Our people are also short tem oppurtuinist and will always in loss in long term."

You have raised many important issues in above quoted post by using history and contemporary political scenario for which I thank you.

But it must be remembered that in society stratification and upward and downward swings go on side by side among various social groups and castes. It is useless to abuse those 'stupid' or wise people of yore for all the things which they did or did not. The intricacies and development of Indian caste system cannot be understood by such swiping statements and pointing accusing finger on one or the other factor.

secondly you have raised right issue by saying inclusive development of India both rural and urban is the bounden duty of the ruling elite.

Regards,

Dr. Raj Pal Singh
 
jat identity : race or religion. in my opinion jat is definitely a race. right from the begining, jats are non-follower of any religion. i slightly defer from Raka bhaisaheb, here as he had mentioned about Jat Sikhs. jat do not have any holy scripture like sikhs do. jat do not have any specific place of worship as sikhs do. nothing is there for jats to follow religiously like sikhs do. i mean kadha, kesh, kripan etc. Jat do not have any religious Gurus like Sikhs. JAT is a race which gradually started following Hindu dharm and its ritual. it is pertinent to mention here that jats are follower of the almighty but always opposes the superficial customs of the society. jat is a race, a brave and great race. like bhai B.L.Lakhan i also want to convey that jat is a race and we should join together to enrich it. A religion cannot be modified but race can.
 
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jo bhai jat ko dharm majhab ke naam par batane ki baat karte hain , wo bhai ek baar ise jarur sune .....
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international jutt federation (Pakistan)
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Thank you Raka ji for posting these videos. It clearly depicts that with general exception everywhere among jats mostly feel connected to their ethnic roots rather than organised religion forced or adopted. This gentleman jat must be invited to India and interact with jats of North India.
 
raka said:
आजकल आपने हिंदी पिक्चरो देखा होगा की जहा पंजाब की जिक्र आता हैं तो एक सिक्ख को दिखाते हैं और सिक्ख मतलब सरदारी जी और सरदार जी मतलब जट्ट | डाइलोग होता हैं " मैं पंजाब का जट्ट हां " | सरदार का नाम आते ही इन सिनेमा वालो के दिमाग में एक जट्ट की तश्वीर आती हैं ना के किसी और जाति की | क्योकि इस सिक्ख धर्म को मानने वालो में 70% लोग जट्ट बिरादरी से हैं | कहने का भाव यह हैं की आस्था बदलती रहती हैं पर आस्था भी ऐसे बदलो की जिसमे अगर किसी के दिमाग में धर्म का ख्याल आए तो उस धर्म के पीछे जाट की तश्वीर नजर आए | दुनिया में सिक्ख धर्म के अलावा ऐसा और कोई धर्म नहीं हैं जिससे की सोचने वाले के दिमाग में धर्म का ख्याल आने पर जाट की तश्वीर नजर आती हो | यह हकीक़त भी हैं आजकल लगभग हर फिल्म में जिसमे सिक्ख का जिक्र हो उसमे उस सिक्ख को एक जट्ट के रूप में दिखाया जाता हैं |
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Let me share my perspective here. Jatts have a very strange and unique relation with Sikhism. They were primarily drawn towards the religion as a means to raise their political voice and answered the call to arms by Banda, who was actually a Rajput convert to Sikhism.

Jatts display all their inherent characteristics in Sikhism. They are not amongst the most learned or well versed with scriptures, but whenever there's a religious issue that need more brawn than brain, Jatts are always at the forefront. Jatts love a fight. Almost all of the leaders of the Sikh militancy right from Bhindrawala (Brar) to Rajaona (Natt) have been Jatts. An outsider would look at them and say that probably Jatts are the most religious Sikhs. But that cant be any further from the truth. Jatts were the first to take to cut their hair, other communities like khatris have only now started doing this. Gurdas Mann, Dharmendra are Jatt examples of Sikhs with shorn hair in the 70s and 80s.
 
swaich said:
Let me share my perspective here. Jatts have a very strange and unique relation with Sikhism. They were primarily drawn towards the religion as a means to raise their political voice and answered the call to arms by Banda, who was actually a Rajput convert to Sikhism.

Jatts display all their inherent characteristics in Sikhism. They are not amongst the most learned or well versed with scriptures, but whenever there's a religious issue that need more brawn than brain, Jatts are always at the forefront. Jatts love a fight. Almost all of the leaders of the Sikh militancy right from Bhindrawala (Brar) to Rajaona (Natt) have been Jatts. An outsider would look at them and say that probably Jatts are the most religious Sikhs. But that cant be any further from the truth. Jatts were the first to take to cut their hair, other communities like khatris have only now started doing this. Gurdas Mann, Dharmendra are Jatt examples of Sikhs with shorn hair in the 70s and 80s.
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Perhaps, among the five followers of Sikhism whom Guru Gobind Singh baptised and in turn he was baptised, one was Jat. Am I right!

As regards, evaluation of the maartial instinct among the Sikhs, where would you like to place Jassa Singh Ahaluwalia! The list could be multiplied if one bothers to turn to the pages of Sikh History.

Are you praising or denouncing the Jat Sikhs through this post!

Thanks
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
Perhaps, among the five followers of Sikhism whom Guru Gobind Singh baptised and in turn he was baptised, one was Jat. Am I right!

As regards, evaluation of the maartial instinct among the Sikhs, where would you like to place Jassa Singh Ahaluwalia! The list could be multiplied if one bothers to turn to the pages of Sikh History.

Are you praising or denouncing the Jat Sikhs through this post!

Thanks
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Yes, one of the Panj Pyaras was a Jat.

JSA was a well known general, as was Nalwa. Both of these were Khatris. But apart from these two, most of the soldiery was Jat dominated. Many of the Misls were led by Jats - Phoolkian (Capt. Amarinder is a descendent of this misl), Bhangi, Kanhaiya etc. M. Ranjit Singh's origins are disputed, so I wont go into that. If we are to divide Sikh history by communities, the period before Banda was Khatri dominated and later was Jatt dominated with a few exceptions of course. This was bound to happen since Banda drew a lot of rural folks into the fold of the Sikh religion. The Khatris had urbanized to a large extent by that time and as a result most of the new converts were Jatts.

And those were just my views. Depends how you look at them. We cant classify everything as black or white/positive or negative, can we? There are shades of grey too.
 
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swaich said:
Yes, one of the Panj Pyaras was a Jat.

JSA was a well known general, as was Nalwa. Both of these were Khatris. But apart from these two, most of the soldiery was Jat dominated. Many of the Misls were led by Jats - Phoolkian (Capt. Amarinder is a descendent of this misl), Bhangi, Kanhaiya etc. M. Ranjit Singh's origins are disputed, so I wont go into that. If we are to divide Sikh history by communities, the period before Banda was Khatri dominated and later was Jatt dominated with a few exceptions of course. This was bound to happen since Banda drew a lot of rural folks into the fold of the Sikh religion. The Khatris had urbanized to a large extent by that time and as a result most of the new converts were Jatts.

And those were just my views. Depends how you look at them. We cant classify everything as black or white/positive or negative, can we? There are shades of grey too.
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Even some fool historians like WENDEL claimed Surajmal to be an adopted son of Badan singh and not a Jat by birth. Same conspiracy is plotted here for Ranjeet singh. Why the some historians become so mean when it comes for Jatt ICON..rajneet singh by no mean was anything else other than a Jatt. His mother was an Aulakh jatti. I had read about that disputed story where ancestors of Maharaja ranjeet singh were said to be of sansi origin..totally crap!
 
prashantacmet said:
Even some fool historians like WENDEL claimed Surajmal to be an adopted son of Badan singh and not a Jat by birth. Same conspiracy is plotted here for Ranjeet singh. Why the some historians become so mean when it comes for Jatt ICON..rajneet singh by no mean was anything else other than a Jatt. His mother was an Aulakh jatti. I had read about that disputed story where ancestors of Maharaja ranjeet singh were said to be of sansi origin..totally crap!
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yes, its unfortunate MRS' origins are disputed by some western historians. The British for whom he was the wall that prevented them from conquering Lands west of Sutlej probably had reason to do so.

I think Sada Kaur was a Gill. Her father was the leader of the Kanhaiya Misl.
 
Samarkadian said:
जाट ::जातिवाद बनाम धार्मिक !



गत कुछ समय से धर्म ,प्रमुख रूप से हिन्दू धर्म से संभंधित अनेक चर्चाओ से जाटलैंड का बाज़ार गर्म है ! हम सब इस अनोखे मंच पर जाट होने के कारन एकत्रित हैं ! जो की जातिसूचक है ! जाटलैंड का मुख्य्प्रष्ठ भी इसे केवल हिन्दू जाट सदस्यों तक सीमित होने का संकेत करता है ! कुछ माननीय सिख सदस्य भी यहाँ भाईचारे का अदभुत एवं सराहनीय उदहारण प्रस्तुत करते हैं ! जाट स्वाभाव से कभी किसी धर्म के प्रति कट्टर नहीं रहा ! इसके कई कारन हो सकते हैं परन्तु मुख्य कारन जो इस नाचीज़ को प्रतीत हुआ वो यह था की एक कृषि करने वाला समुदाय प्रकृति के समीप, उसके आँचल में गुजर बसर करता था ! प्रकृति चयनित रूप से कट्टर है अन्यथा इसके कार्यकलाप निर्विघ्न रूप से शांत चलते हैं ! यही कारन है की अनेको व्यवसाय आधारित जातिया गाँव में सौहार्द से बस्ती आई हैं !


मानव सभ्यता में गत सौ से डेढ़ सौ वर्ष अत्यंत रोचक एवं गहन सांसारिक प्रगति के रहे हैं ! यह एक तर्क पुराकालीन समय से प्रचलित है कि जितने हम सुविधाओं को प्राप्त करते जायेंगे , जितनी हमारी जीवन की आधारभूत आव्शय्क्तायें पूरी होती जायेंगी , उसी समानुपात में हम अपनी पहचान को खोजेंगे ! आधुनिक समय में इस तर्क को मासलोव हायर्की ऑफ़ नीड्स [ (Maslow Law of Hierarchy ) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs ] के नाम से जाना जाता है ! मानव जीवन के चक्र में प्राय: हर मानव भावनात्मक, बौद्धिक, चेतन एवं अर्धचेतन रूप से इस नियम के अंतर्गत अपनी पहचान खोजता है ! कई बार हमे ज्ञात भी नहीं होता है कि कथित कार्य, विचार से हम अपनी वास्तविक पहचान खोज रहे हैं! जिस परिद्रश्य में हम जनम लेते हैं , हम अपना बचपन व्यतीत करते हैं , विद्या ग्रहण करते हैं ; उनका पहचान पर गहरा असर पड़ता है ! जाती एवं जनम हम चेतन रूप से चयन नहीं कर सकते यह हमे जन्म से मिलती है ! हमारे जीवन में जातिगत गुण कूट कूट कर इस तरह से भरे हैं कि वो कहीं न कहीं किसी न रूप में प्रकट हो ही जाते हैं जो कि स्वाभाविक है ! धर्म जाती के थोडा बाद आता है ! किन्तु यह भी हमारी जीवन पद्धति में महत्वपूर्ण स्थान ले लेता है ! हमारी पहचान का एक अभिन्न अंग बन जाता है ! अब , कोई भी जाट मै, आप, रामफल या रल्धू या कोई भी कथित जाट इसी पहचान खोजने कि प्रक्रिया से गुजरते हैं तो जाती एवं धर्म का आना स्वाभिक है !


जाटलैंड पर वर्तमान समय में होने वाली चर्चाये , वाद विवाद , मन मुटाव इसी पहचान, पहचान के साथ गहरा जुडाव एवं पहचान कि खोज के कारन हैं ! जैसा कि मैंने पहले कहा कि जाट स्वाभाविक रूप से कट्टर नहीं रहा है किन्तु गत वर्षो में कुछ परिवर्तन है ! जाट का कभी पूजा एवं पूजा पद्धतियो में अधिक विश्वास नहीं रहा किन्तु कुछ चीज़े जो मैंने जाट परिवारों में देखी है, वो है संध्या करना अर्थात संध्या के समय एक दीपक जला कर कुछ क्षंन के लिए मौन हो जाना ! ध्यान देने कि बात यह है कि यह दीपक किसी भगवन या देवता कि मूर्ति के सामने नहीं अपितु एक आले (दीवार में छोट्टा सा स्थान ) में जलाया जाता है ! अब यह कहाँ से आई एवं कब आई इसका मुझे ज्ञान नहीं है किन्तु यह किसी भी रूप से धार्मिक नहीं लगती वरन आध्यात्मिक प्रतीत होती हैं ! ये लुप्त हो रही है या होगी , इसके विषय में भी मै कुछ नहीं कहूँगा !

मेरा प्रश्न है कि एक जाट अपनी पहचान कि खोज में ज्यादा धार्मिक होना चाहिए या जातिवादी ?

आपके तर्क, वितर्क , कुतर्क का स्वागत है ! एक पोल भी इस सूत्र के साथ जोड़ रहा हूँ जिसका प्रश्न है कि आप कोनसी पहचान के साथ ज्यादा जुड़े हैं !

मेरा निजी विचार है कि मै जाट होकर ही इस क्रम में ऊपर जा सकता हूँ क्यों कि आध्याम्तिक रूप से अंत में सब कुछ भूल कर इश्वर या किसी ऐसे शक्ति या सचाई के सामने समर्पण करना पड़ता ! धार्मिक चोले को उतारने में मानसिक , आत्मिक एवं भावनात्मक रूप से कई गुना ज्यादा संघर्ष करना पड़ेगा !
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I needed it once again.
 
This bias against Jats in Media & haryana society will eventually fade away. Kanhaiyas, Kejriwals & other nautankis are already vying for the limelight. The memory of the masses in my country is short lived. This chapter will also in some passage of time forgotten.
 
Jat is a tribe not a caste.

भाई साहब जहाँ तक मै समझ पाया हूँ , जाट एक ट्राइब यानी जनजाति है। जनजाति शब्द का मतलब "हिन्दू जाति" से अलग है। जनजातियों की शुरुआत कहाँ से हुई/कैसे हुई/कब हुई ये सब निश्चित नहीं होता, हाँ हम बस अनुमान लगा पाये है। जनजातियों की अपनी एक अलग पहचान होती है, एक अलग दर्शन , अपनी परंपरा (जो आदि काल से अनवतरित है, शायद आज भी वैसी ही है जैसे हज़ारो साल पहले थी) , और अलग मानव स्वाभाव होता है। समय के साथ इसमें कुछ बदलाव होता रहता है, बाह्य कारकों का प्रभाव पड़ता रहता है, पर मूल बात किसी न किसी रूप में मौजूद रहती है।
जबकि जातियां हिन्दू वर्ण व्यवस्था से बनी है, जिसमे विभिन्न जनजातीय समूह के लोग सम्मिलित है। वर्ण व्यवस्था कर्म(Occupation) के आधार पर थी, मानव विकास के साथ साथ occupation बढ़ते गए, जहाँ पीढ़ी दर पीढ़ी एक ही काम होता रहा, वहां ये जाति बनती चली गयी(इसमें वर्णो में काम के आधार पर आतंरिक संघर्ष एक मुख्य कारक रहा, जैसे वैश्य वर्ग में पशुपालन, व्यापार, खेती आदि काम थे, इसमें ये जाती बनते चले गए)। जातियां कर्म आधारित थी जैसे गौचर (जो गाय चराते थे बाद में गौजर ,गूजर, गुर्जर बोले जाने लगे, जाटव जो जाटों के खेतों में काम करते थे, चमार जो चमड़े का काम करते थे) ।
पर जनजातियों के नाम कैसे पड़े, कब पड़े ये तक निश्चित नहीं है, क्यूंकि ये आदि काल से है) अगर जाट को इस हिसाब से देखे तो जाट निर्विवाद रूप से एक जनजाति है, जिसका अपना दर्शन , परंपरा , संस्कृति, जनजातीय धर्म आदि कुछ है, ना इसकी शुरुआत के बारे में पता, मतलब ये आदि काल से ऐसे ही है।
धर्म और जाति , दोनों से ही ये ज्यादा महत्वपूर्ण है।
 
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