jat movemment very urgent to save our heritage

[jitender.singh]

Someone have to take action for wrong deeds.
So why not the first ones (in name of family members)

Society is like a building block : starting with individual , family , extended family , village ....so & so
Such cases can be brought to society level , but family members think it wise to check their duties firstly by themselves.

Every where one can see hierachy like at work place......to maintain decorum.
Check on lower level by upper one is mandatory for discipline.

Its a worst thing an individual can do ....afterwards everyone will look at sister with a different angle...so iof you are ready for it by your brothers then write again with alike content you wrote previously.

Mr. Malik, do you mean to say that it is justified to kill somebody, because you think he has done a wrong deed? If so, I really dont think that human race will survive for long, because every 2 individuals have different opinions. Add to that people can make mistakes (I am talking of mistakes which are not criminal acts), so if somebody makes a mistake he should be murdered by his family members. In that case too I dont think anybody can grom up beyond 15 years (I dont know anybody who has not made even a single mistake in his life, if you are such a person let me know).

Its fine you stated the building blocks of society in your post. So, what happens if a smaller block fails to work as intended, throw to garbage or try to make it work properly? By murdering, I think you are recommending throwing it away. Trying to fix it so that it works longer in the system needs counselling. You have tried to compare work place and society, have you ever seen somebody being murdered, because he didn't do his work properly?

Regarding the same gotra marriage avoidance, for your knowledge I am reposting content from one of my previous posts:
"As per biology, you should avoid marrying (to be precise having offspring with) your siblings, first cousins and second cousins as it causes the offspring to be born with genetic disorders. The gotra system was a tool to make this happen as at that time there was not much education, so the traditional way of drafting a rule of mariage to avoid such things. However, I am not sure if every same gotra mariage falls in the same category. My suggestion is that
a. Same gotra marriages should be discouraged (we are already doing the same)
b. If in case we get to know a potential same gotra marriage, rather than being hostile and repulsive, we should get the boy and girl (possibly with their family) counselled with doctors.
c. For the same gotra couples (who have already married), get them counselled through doctors, if they happen to be first or second cousins.

I have already suggested the solution from my end, and I am sure this will be far better if we keep such cases integrated within the society, so that for future it is easy to educate people with their experiences. I read a research on the British people of Pakistani origin, wherein 55% of people marry to either first or second cousins and around 16% of the offsprings born to them die prematurely due to genetic disorders.

I have never seen anybody supporting the same per se. The reasoning may be different but everybody seem to be agreeing on the issue. I have slightly different opinion, but it drills down to the same thing: find the means in our society to avoid offspring from close biological relations till second cousins. Some friends have commented (sarcastically although) about inter caste marriages, which are good for biological reasons, but not for peace of your life (different cultures require more complex way of managing life). Just to clarify that comment on the corruption of bloodline, "Its good to marry as far as possible from your bloodline." In my last comment I have tried to find a bit different way of handling the same gotra (please read it 'any voilation of our 3 gotra exclusion system' to avoid any more controversy)."

So the perception of the gotra exclusion should be limited to avoid these relations in our society and that should not be related gotras belonging to a village for the sake their honour.

The core reason on the honour thing is that our society still treat girl child as inferior and that is why they think that it will make their heads down if a girl is married in their locality with thier surnames. They dont realize that a girl's 'MAAN' is not increased by giving her 10 rupees, but by treating her equal to her siblings.

Finally, if you think that you respect and love your sister just because you have societic pressure to treat her sisterly, then you are sick and need counselling!!!

 

[jitender.singh]

यूरोप और अमेरिका में लोग बच्चे पैदा करने में विश्वास नहीं रखते उसके दो कारण हैं की हर आदमी इतना नहीं कमाता की वो अकेला उन बच्चो की परवरिश कर सके और शादियों का रिवाज भी कम ही है लोग गर्लफ्रेंड रखना ज्यादा पसंद करते हैं क्योंकि उसको तलाक/अलगाव के मामले में भत्ता नहीं देना पड़ता ! एक माँ नौ महीने तक एक वजन को पेट में ढोती हैं और दर्द को बर्दाश्त करती है ! एक पिता भी एक एक दिन गिन के निकलता है ताकि जल्द ही वो नन्हा फ़रिश्ता उसकी गोद में हो ! एक आदमी की ज़िन्दगी में भी ये बहुत महताव्पूरण दिन होता है जब उसकी गोद में डॉक्टर उसका बच्चा देता है! उसके बाद हर शाम की बातचीत सिर्फ एक बात से शुरू होती है और उसी पर ख़तम की आज हमारे बच्चे ने क्या सीखा ? क्या नयी हरकत की ? थोड़े दिन बाद वो उसे अपनी हसियत के अनुसार सबसे आचे स्कूल में उसका दाखिला करवाते हैं ! अपनी हर ख़ुशी और इच्छा को बच्चे पर न्योछावर कर देते हैं उनका हर ख्वाब हर तमन्ना उस बच्चे से जुड़ जाती है ! अपने बच्चे के लिए जितना कर सकते हैं उस से ज्यादा करने की कोशिस रहती है! खुद भूखे रहना मंजूर पर उस बच्चे को सबसे पहले खिलाना चाहते हैं ! खुद के चाहे कपड़ो पर थेकली(पैबंद) लगी हो पर उसके लिए नए कपडे जरूर रहते हैं ! एक दिन वो कॉलेज जाता/जाती है और उनको ये सोच सताने लगती है की अब इसके लिए एक सुन्दर सुशील वर/वधु आ जाये पर एक दिन उन्हें पता लगता है की वो पडोसी के बेटे/बेटी के साथ भाग गया और शादी कर ली! पडोसी इल्जाम लगता है की उसकी नाबालिग बेटी को भगा ले गया और पुलिस घर पूछताछ के लिए आने लगती है ! जिनकी भालेमान्सी की मिसाल दी जाती थी उनकी बेटी/बेटे के चरित्र को लेकर लोग (समाज के ठेकेदार ) बात करने लगते हैं!लोग कहते हैं की तू बहुत बड़ी बड़ी बात करता था और तेरा लड़का तो अपनी बहिन के साथ भाग गया! जो पडोसी कल तक दुःख सुख के साथी थे वो जान के प्यासे हो जाते हैं क्योंकि उनके घर में दूसरी बेटी बेटा बैठा है जिसके रिश्ते से पहले ये बात उठेगी की इसका भाई/बहिन उसके चाचा के बेटे/बेटी के साथ भाग गया ! उस माँ बाप को एक एक दिन निकलना भारी हो जाता है !
इस समस्या का बस एक ही समाधान है और वो है सावधानी न वो बच्चा पैदा होगा और ना ही आदमी उसके लिए इतने सपने देखेगा !क्यों ये सारे बेवकूफ अपनी खुशियों का गला घोट कर सब सपने उसके साथ जोड़ देते हैं ?

Rakesh, I think the parents who try to do everything for their child are in fact their enemies. They are making their children handicapped for life, just because they are capable. I would really appreciate, if they try to make them capable of doing things on your own. I really appreciate Americans and British the way they make their children learn living life. Unlike us, where parents are the fundraisers for the children, whole life, they ask them to learn to earn at an age when a human learn the fastest. This does not mean that they don't love their children as much as we do. But this is simply a coultural difference that we never try to appreciate.
By bashing the western culture, we are just trying to make ourself heroes on the forum. I think one should respect the cultures of other communities as much as we respect our culture. This habit really shows where we stand in comparison to them. While they come over to us, try to know about our culture and reasons behind our rituals and traditions, learn from us. We just stand up and dont even try to appreciate the good things which are the part of their lives.

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Rakesh, I think the parents who try to do everything for their child are in fact their enemies. They are making their children handicapped for life, just because they are capable. I would really appreciate, if they try to make them capable of doing things on your own. I really appreciate Americans and British the way they make their children learn living life. Unlike us, where parents are the fundraisers for the children, whole life, they ask them to learn to earn at an age when a human learn the fastest. This does not mean that they don't love their children as much as we do. But this is simply a coultural difference that we never try to appreciate.
By bashing the western culture, we are just trying to make ourself heroes on the forum. I think one should respect the cultures of other communities as much as we respect our culture. This habit really shows where we stand in comparison to them. While they come over to us, try to know about our culture and reasons behind our rituals and traditions, learn from us. We just stand up and dont even try to appreciate the good things which are the part of their lives.

हाँ भाई सही कह रहे हो पर संस्कार (culture ) बचा कहाँ हैं यूरोप में? दूसरी बात तन्ने अपने culture का बाल नहीं बेर आर बात मारे है बड्डी बड्डी! तू जबका अपने culture ने ख़राब बतान लग रहया है आर ज्ञान देवे है तू दुसरे की इज्ज़त का ! आड़े कोए ओस्कर ना मिले की हीरो बनके दिखाना पड़े आड़े में हूँ की मुझे मेरी मान्यता मेरे culture के बन्दे मिले हैं ! तू जबका पंचायत की धजियाँ उड़न लग रहया है तेरे तें एक सवाल है की पंचायत सिस्टम कद का है और इसमें किसको बोलने का हक़ है और किसको फैंसला देने का?

 

[jitender.singh]

हाँ भाई सही कह रहे हो पर संस्कार (culture ) बचा कहाँ हैं यूरोप में? दूसरी बात तन्ने अपने culture का बाल नहीं बेर आर बात मारे है बड्डी बड्डी! तू जबका अपने culture ने ख़राब बतान लग रहया है आर ज्ञान देवे है तू दुसरे की इज्ज़त का ! आड़े कोए ओस्कर ना मिले की हीरो बनके दिखाना पड़े आड़े में हूँ की मुझे मेरी मान्यता मेरे culture के बन्दे मिले हैं ! तू जबका पंचायत की धजियाँ उड़न लग रहया है तेरे तें एक सवाल है की पंचायत सिस्टम कद का है और इसमें किसको बोलने का हक़ है और किसको फैंसला देने का?

I dont know if I know my culture or not, but I am certainly not going to apear for a test on the same to satify your parameters. However, you seem to be very keen on passing judgement on other cultures without ever knowing what that is all about. Just like every human being is different from every other human being, every society is also different from other societies. If you try to see them from your persepective only you will never know, what that is all about, and that is what I tried to point out. If you understood thats fine with me, if not that wont bother me either. I am here to putforth what I think is a good thing and if I can learn a good thing or 2 from anybody else on the forum.
I have never said that out culture is bad, but I am just trying to suggest what we can do better. You are free to say whatever you feel and same thing applies for me as well. But I am open to debate on culture, but culture just do not involve talking on panchayat, honour killings, and same gotra marriages. It is the way you live in the society around you. It involves every little thing you do and you talk about.

 

[brahmtewatia]

Traditions and rituuals are bound to change as we evolve !

tradition is generally defined as long-standing beliefs, practices or customs that have been handed down from one generation to the next. every culture, every race or group of people have their own rich customs nd traditions. in thinking about the importance of tradition, traditions are practiced throughout every civilization known to man nd have several key elements. in specific nd with JAT’s in particular… i would focus on only two aspects of our traditions…

(1). traditions have guardians such as historians, panchayti’s, khandwe wale khap chaudharies that have access or suppose to have the knowledge or the truth of tradition's sacred rituals.

(2). tradition stirs emotion within individuals to bring about a greater sense of self-awareness. in some cultures, like ours these rituals are important to one's self-identity within the context of a larger society.

that being said, the problem comes when these two belief’s of tradition come in way of changing times. you can treat the global age today as a battle between modernity and tradition. family traditions are, unfortunately, one of the great casualties of modern times. as families become more fragmented nd disconnected, there is less time nd opportunity to enjoy the simple traditions that were once a natural part of family life… sad, but true !

many of us remember nd miss the little rituals that formed the basis of our own childhood, yet don’t see a way to fit them into a life that is so different from that of our parents when we were growing up.

traditions nd rituals change with the passage of time as we evolve. new traditions nd ways of living come in force every single day to ease out complexities of our erstwhile traditions nd for the betterment of our lives. sometimes, we even chose them as per our convenience. there is no "one size fits all" solution to today’s increasingly complicated family situations, instead fit your traditions to your family situation and the people in it.

this however, can never negate the existence nd importance of our century old traditions nd rituals. but a dictatorial attitude, as that of khaps does no good, but to remind us of our barbarous past, when we were evolving. every parents try their utmost to inculcate the very best of virtue’s in their sibblings. if we find few off-beat couple choosing their destiny against our customs, so be it… let them live their own life. these are just few cases that you can count on tips nd by no means will disturb the genetic dna code of jats.

the law of universe gives everyone equal opportunity to embrace this world nd you only live once. i give a classical example of my case in particular where customs were bypassed with logical and scientific reasoning…

my mom is sansanwal and the gotra of my two dadi’s are gahlot (real) and sehrawat (step)... gahlot being the gotra of my father’s real mother. when i was getting married, the gotra of my wife’s mother (being sehrawat) and my dadi (my father’s step mother, being sehrawat) coincided. so what to do ?... a unanimous decision was taken that was scientific in essence rather than customary. i was married on the reasoning, as suggested by various bade-bujurg that if you see the real blood-line there is no clash of gotra. hence, my marriage was solemnized… between gahlot/sansanwal/tewatia & malik/sehrawat/mathur (machhar) gotras.

i don’t have much knowledge of our grass-roots, but this is what i believe in generalized speaking… any comments here ?

 

[brahmtewatia]

to add further my thoughts vis-a-vis my previous post...

1. as far as my knowledge goes, JAT's in rajasthan avoid 5 gotras. why 3 in haryana ?

2. in haryana nd delhi (guess u.p. as well) female's dadi gotra is neglected in solemnizing any marriage, where as male's dadi gotra is given full importance. genetically speaking, both male and female's dadi gotra are of equal importance... then why this disparity ?

the answer is... to ease the complexities of our modern day living... correct ?

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

to add further my thoughts vis-a-vis my previous post...

1. as far as my knowledge goes, JAT's in rajasthan avoid 5 gotras. why 3 in haryana ?

2. in haryana nd delhi (guess u.p. as well) female's dadi gotra is neglected in solemnizing any marriage, where as male's dadi gotra is given full importance. genetically speaking, both male and female's dadi gotra are of equal importance... then why this disparity ?

the answer is... to ease the complexities of our modern day living... correct ?

I personally haven't seen such a thing that grandmother's gotra from girl side is neglected.
I am married to Dabas and total 8 gotras were there to check Sehrawat,Hooda, Phogat,Nain(My Village's Gotra), Dangi(My Neighbour's village gotra being single village of this gotra),Dabss,Sangwan and Dahiya.I belong to Haryana Tehsil Meham Distt. Rohtak.Haan time ke saath Nani ka gotra chodne lage hain.
Aap apna khud example bata rahe hain to kya aapko kisi panchayat ne fansi ka farman diya ya gaon se nikala?
Ye cheez itnee complex nahi hai jitna yahan bana rahe hain.

 

[upendersingh]

Upender,

If you want to interpret it this way, I don't mind. It does not harm me, but it will only help you to go into problems and not solutions.

I never want to interpret in this way, but who don't bother about such same gotra marriage issues and try to prove the khap leaders the real culprits, they also support the points I have made in my quoted post. I repeat again I am not in favour of killing such couples, but I can't welcome and support this move as well.

I was just trying to point out a fact that Khap Panchayats do not represent our concerns. Even if you compare the gravity of 2 issues you have compared I still think and am sure that the corruption and acceptance to corruption in our society is far more serious problem than what we are vouching here (same gotra issue), since we come across 1-2 issues in a year. And if you still think that you can do it by murdering that odd couple than you are not treating the problem seriously.

Problem lies in your this point that you are very happy that 5 'culprits' have been pronounced death penalty and you would be more happy if involved officials too had been pronounced the same decision. If you are so good Jat, then why didn't you think about more than 20 family members of these victims. Who will care them if those 5 are hanged? How can you say that if corrupts are not punished, then no one should be punished?

If you are such a warrior, than try and go to fight against those who are equal to you on strength and not the meek couple who is on run from you fearing their life.

What do you know about me? Wherever I live my life, I live with full honour, be it my neighbourhood or any other place, I never let the reputation of Jat community disgrace. I am proud of my bravery. I didn't target you in my post, that's my bravery and you have targetted me personally. But I am ready.

I am really wondering if you are trying to idolize barbaric Talibans to create a society of Jats. If so, best of luck.

It is not me, but people like you again and again try to put Jats with the Talibans. Jats never advocate no education for females, Jats don't kill minority in their dominant areas, Jats don't want their women to cover whole body with cloth, Jats don't oppose movies, songs, Jats do nothing so that they should be called Talibans. If you or others with same mentality still want to call them Talibans, go ahead, no one cares.

Its easy to create problems, like the panchayat people have done to the families of the affected by provoking them into murder and its easy to be a laughing bystander like you. If you really have the courage of a warrior, go ahead and support their families and then you will realize the mistake they have done.

Finally, thanks for giving my comments enough value to react at least.

You are the laughing bystander. You are happy that 5 Jats are to be hanged. Adding to it, you also want involved officials to be hanged. You are the real Taliban. A warrior can't help them right now. Haryana Government can help them out in real. Government should pressurize both the sides to compromise. There are also many other ways to help them out from Government side. If you still think I can help them, I am ready to help them. I would like to know how can I do so. I am not any lawyer.

To be continued...

 

[upendersingh]

I take pity on your thinking that you will feel only if the daughter elopes, what about the sons? If you can't treat your sons and daughter equal on your thoughts I think I am wasting my time on trying to make you understand what I feel about the issue.

It is not my thinking. It is world's thinking. I agree both should be treated equally, but what should be done with this world? If one's daughter elopes, then her family suffers more. I am repeating again my protest was just for it that you are happy with the court decision of hanging those 5.

And as you have made the point that others look to harass the family, then what kind of society we have become, if we can't support a freind of us in his bad times. So, what I feel from your post is that they have killed that couple just because the Jat society will mockery of them. The Jats are those neighbours and relative who wont let them leave in peace. This is wonderful statement Upender!!!! I don't belong to such group, but I am Jat and I still value my roots.

There may also other castes be living in that village or in neighbourhood. If you think that other people don't mockery in such cases, then it seems you know nothing about this world.

If this is so easy to justify this murder, can you just let me know why you did not stood lawyer for these people in the court and got all of them acquitted?

I am not a lawyer, but I am sure they will not be hanged. Supreme courts' decision will be the final one. Before any such comments, see the photographs of those guys. I have seen in newspaper. They are no different than my family members. I ask you, that boy had eloped with their girl, what should have they done according to you? Nothing? I repeat again, I am not supporting the killing.
And by the way what are you going to do for helping them out, just expressing happiness over the court's decision?

I am sorry for being sarcastic, but I think its worth if you just try to think over before you write.

Thanks for advice.

To be continued...

 

[mhundpuriamann]

sensible man !

Then why do you favour when an armed forces guy kills someone who has crossed border ?
On many occassions civilians too get across to other side of border.

Is crossing a border " a bigger crime " than having intimate relation with your own sister ?
Baad khet ko kha rahi hai log taali baja rahe hain.....saying cultured!

very much right ! they should also be killed (if possible ) who r opposing this killing ! they should be punished publicaly first infront of whole village people than they should be hanged like pigs ! openly !

 

[upendersingh]

They should allow them to become professional by commiting another 20-30 murders.
Have you heard of law and order?

ऐसा कहा जाता है कि इस दुनिया में प्यार की चुनौती को पूरी तरह से आज तक कोई नहीं तोड़ पाया है. पता नहीं कितने लैला-मजनूं और कितने हीर-रांझे इस चुनौती को तोड़ने में लगे, लेकिन असफल रहे. जिन कुछेक लोगों के प्रेम-विवाह सफल रहते हैं, उनकी भी कुछ मेहनत होती है, जैसे शाहरुख़ खान और गौरी खान. ये जो ऊपर जोड़ा है, ये कुछ नया ही उदाहरण प्रस्तुत करना चाह रहा था. प्यार इस दुनिया की सबसे बड़ी चुनौती है. पहले तो ये दुनिया प्रेमियों को मौत के घाट उतारती है और इस दुनिया से बच गए तो फिर इस दुनिया को चलाने वाली ताकत ऐसे लोगों को सबक सिखाती है. अगर बिना मेहनत और तपस्या के किसी को प्यार का मजा ले लेने दिया तो फिर उन्हें क्या मिलेगा, जो प्यार को कड़ी मेहनत और तपस्या के बाद हासिल करेंगे? मनोज और बबली का मामला तो भाई-बहन का था. फिर कुछ दिन बाद ये मनोज गाँव में आना-जाना शुरू कर देता और बबली के घर के सामने से ऐसे गुजरता, मानो ऐसा जता रहा हो कि "देखी मेरी ताकत. कुनबे की लड़की से शादी की, किसी में हिम्मत है तो कोई कुछ बिगाड़ लो." सब इज्जत के साथ रहना चाहते हैं, भाई छोरे छिकारा. हम बातें यहाँ चाहे जितनी बड़ी-बड़ी कर लें, लेकिन जिनके साथ ऐसी बीतती है, उनके लिए ऐसी घटना बर्दाश्त करना बहुत मुश्किल होता है, विशेषकर तब, जबकि लड़की के घरवाले अच्छी-खासी ताकत रखते हों.
...कानून-व्यवस्था सुनी है. अगर गवाह और सबूत हों तो फिर तो क्लेश हो जाता है. नेता डी. पी. यादव का छोरा और एक उनके रिश्तेदार का छोरा जेल में सड़ गए नितीश कटारा मामले में.

 

[rocker88]

Khaps should be totally abolished.They are of no use. More than 99% judgments are made under ego/jealousy/ self satisfaction/externally motivated/influenced.
First of all khaps leaders should start from their family first.
Same gotra marriage are no big issues that could justify murders at any point..
Every khaps/panchayat or any other such stinking systems should try to remember that in their age at night how many houses they have jumped in their village itself or how long they have waited in the fields ... ..:rock .It seems most of the boys/girls from a same village are of same gotras....HAHAAAAAAAA
In todays world most of the peoples are not remembering their castes gotra is a too big deal..
Instead of circling the HOOKAH & giving ridiculous judgments ,Go and try to educate some poor kids or clear the Nalis(drainage systems) & prevent mosquito breedings, Summers are coming or else die with malaria/dengue.
Initially I thought JATS are great being/culture/tradition/attitude but now i feel they too are becoming just like other castes.
Its still time there we can change & give back the original glory to JATS.
Lets start from our home..

Note: Pls look at the above pic,its too sad & bad for world to kill such couples b'cos in the present world where there is corruption/hatred/crimes etc. there is only LOVE left which motivates someone to be apart from rest of the useless/normal human-beings.Where peoples especially JATS too are killing their father/mother/brother/sisters for little piece of lands etc. ,these couples rises above this mentality .

Its most sad,pathetic to kill someone.
Even some countries have banned hanging even for most-heinous crimes than same gotra marriages.

Note: Please don't try to show Jat attitude here on jatland.com.All peoples are jat here, so A monkey calling A monkey is of no use..

Why we middle class families sacrifice our daughters/boys for the sake of tradition.There are many several examples where high class/influential Jat peoples forces to follow us this customs/traditions etc. & they easily break traditions for themselves.

Regards..

 

[vijay123]

Very well said. There is no place for khaps in a democratic setup. India is not Afghanistan which is controlled by shura neither are we living in the era of Raja and Maharaja's. All disputes should either be resolved by village panchayat (if both parties agrees to the resolution) or they should be handled by judicial system.

Khaps should be totally abolished.They are of no use. More than 99% judgments are made under ego/jealousy/ self satisfaction/externally motivated/influenced.
First of all khaps leaders should start from their family first.
Same gotra marriage are no big issues that could justify murders at any point..
Every khaps/panchayat or any other such stinking systems should try to remember that in their age at night how many houses they have jumped in their village itself or how long they have waited in the fields ... ..:rock .It seems most of the boys/girls from a same village are of same gotras....HAHAAAAAAAA
In todays world most of the peoples are not remembering their castes gotra is a too big deal..
Instead of circling the HOOKAH & giving ridiculous judgments ,Go and try to educate some poor kids or clear the Nalis(drainage systems) & prevent mosquito breedings, Summers are coming or else die with malaria/dengue.
Initially I thought JATS are great being/culture/tradition/attitude but now i feel they too are becoming just like other castes.
Its still time there we can change & give back the original glory to JATS.
Lets start from our home..

Note: Pls look at the above pic,its too sad & bad for world to kill such couples b'cos in the present world where there is corruption/hatred/crimes etc. there is only LOVE left which motivates someone to be apart from rest of the useless/normal human-beings.Where peoples especially JATS too are killing their father/mother/brother/sisters for little piece of lands etc. ,these couples rises above this mentality .

Its most sad,pathetic to kill someone.
Even some countries have banned hanging even for most-heinous crimes than same gotra marriages.

Note: Please don't try to show Jat attitude here on jatland.com.All peoples are jat here, so A monkey calling A monkey is of no use..

Why we middle class families sacrifice our daughters/boys for the sake of tradition.There are many several examples where high class/influential Jat peoples forces to follow us this customs/traditions etc. & they easily break traditions for themselves.

Regards..

 

[annch]

Can somebody help me understand the poll? Thanks

Solution to Honor Killings-
1) Education- Does this mean educate youth regarding Jat traditions and culture? Or educate the khaps?
2) Respect of Law- This definitely works if rephrased as "Fear of Law"
3) Maturity- Who should be mature? A couple ready to face the ire of the people and take responsibility of their marriage?Or, the Khaps that need to grow up ..and take a balanced decison?
4) False sense of honor- ??????? How is a false sense of honor a solution to Honor Killings?

Regards

 

[annch]

The answers that you will get for free might not justify the million dollar question...........

Now the million dollar question ? Where and with whom we should marry ? I am asking this to the people who are shouting at their roof top about the 'Bhaichaara' among the villeges and Khaps.

 

[singhvp]

Very well said. There is no place for khaps in a democratic setup. India is not Afghanistan which is controlled by shura neither are we living in the era of Raja and Maharaja's. All disputes should either be resolved by village panchayat (if both parties agrees to the resolution) or they should be handled by judicial system.

[

Originally said by Nitin. "Every khaps/panchayat or any other such stinking systems should try to remember that in their age at night how many houses they have jumped in their village itself or how long they have waited in the fields ... ..:rock .It seems most of the boys/girls from a same village are of same gotras....HAHAAAAAAAA"

You and Nitin have rightly exposed the hypocrisy of our Khap Clerics. Moreover, the value system is not supposed to be static and need overhauling and servicing just like our cars. Another example, so many amendments have been incorporated in our constitution since its inception. Similarly, some amendments become essential in traditions as well with the change of time and circumstances. We will have to choose one from the two value systems - democracy where every citizen is free to determine his own way of life or feudalism where life of a common man is controlled by a handful of feudal lords. If we do not like anyone's behaviour we can simply dissociate with him/her without taking any extreme step like manhandling or killing.

 

[sunillathwal]

Very well said. There is no place for khaps in a democratic setup . India is not Afghanistan which is controlled by shura neither are we living in the era of Raja and Maharaja's.

LOL LOL

GOI has different plans though:

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=59635

http://sify.com/news/government-committed-to-speedy-justice-sonia-news-national-kd1tkhbehfg.html

http://ncrsamaylive.com/NewsDetails.aspx?lNewsID=142944&lCategoryID=105

All disputes should either be resolved by village panchayat (if both parties agrees to the resolution) or they should be handled by judicial system.

I was under the impression that this is 'what' in FACT happens;
Can you enlighten us (at least me) further on the issues of similarity/differences/modus-operandi of a Panchayat and a kahp? Detail'er the better.

Seriously, i am very much interested (especially in knowing the difference in their approaches to any case/issue). Will be GREAT if you can share any anecdotes (in case you have been to any Khap or panchayat in your life).

 

[samarkadian]

I dont know if I know my culture or not, but I am certainly not going to apear for a test on the same to satify your parameters. However, you seem to be very keen on passing judgement on other cultures without ever knowing what that is all about. Just like every human being is different from every other human being, every society is also different from other societies. If you try to see them from your persepective only you will never know, what that is all about, and that is what I tried to point out. If you understood thats fine with me, if not that wont bother me either. I am here to putforth what I think is a good thing and if I can learn a good thing or 2 from anybody else on the forum.
I have never said that out culture is bad, but I am just trying to suggest what we can do better. You are free to say whatever you feel and same thing applies for me as well. But I am open to debate on culture, but culture just do not involve talking on panchayat, honour killings, and same gotra marriages. It is the way you live in the society around you. It involves every little thing you do and you talk about.

Intelligent boy, are you, Jitender, and very much speaks like honourable Barkha Dutt....ah yes, in break we will learn about Her Highness more...Which is :-

Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt is a really bad Indian version of CNN's acclaimed T.V. show Christiane Amanpour.According to unsourced sources Miss Dutt is also a Human Being who is the First Empress of the United Empire of Endy T.V.She claims to be the only professional Truth Teller in India, the champion of Freedom of Expression and Freedom to Sue prosecute and persecute anybody who dares to speak against Miss. Dutt. Her devout Admirers think she is the best thing to ever happen to India .Her Admirers refer to her as Her Truthfulness and addressing her by her birth name is Blasphemy for them.To be an admirer of Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt one has to make the following pledge, I, with my own heart and mind want to be an admirer of Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt, The only Hope of We The People who can't make the Buck Stop and have to pray and plead to Her Truthfulness To make it Stop at 10.p.m from Monday to Thursday on Endy T.V. .

==

Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt Was born in a family of people who always spoke for truth and justice and upheld Human rights in New Delhi on 18th December 1971.The First Word Her truthfulness spoke after her birth was Where is my microphone.Her parents had to give her the microphone immediately otherwise she would have sued them for trying to suppress freedom of expression.She later went to the Not So Modern School in New Delhi not to study but to enlighten the teachers there about her greatness.Unlike other people who go college to graduate and degrees, she went to different colleges to englighten teachers and students there to make them realise her greatnes and how she was the only hope for India.She gathered her early admirers in St. Stephen's College, Delhi(it is pronounced as stevens ok) ,Jamia Milia Islamia and Columbia University.These admirers pledged their loyalty towards Barkha and considered her to be the only hope of India or like Barack Obama would like to say She was the only change India could believe in

==

What do you think her truthfulness(after enlightening so many) would go about searching for a job No!No!No! She immediately took over India's Only English News Channel then, called Endy T.V. from a Half-Bengali Git And used it to preach India's innocent and unenlightened people the only Truth was that Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt was the greatest, who never Lied and She was the Messiah of Indians, who had come to save them from poverty, exploitation,lies.deciet,exploitation blah blah Blah!, and she would take them to the Promised Land.Barkha gained more and more admirers in india when she reported the truth on her channel about Kargil War,conflicts in iraq,afghanistan and pakistan.Soon her truthfulness became the most popular person in india and she was being awarded by the ever so greatful indian people on an hourly basis.She was Awarded India's Highest civilian award The Bharat Ratna in reciprocation of a award named Endy T.V.'s Indian of the Year, Her tuthfulness presented to a certain Italian who has lived in india for quite some time.She was awarded the Nobel Prize in 2010 for her role in promoting Freedom of speech in the world.World Forum has awarded her the Only Global Leader of Tommorrow award every year since it's inception in the year 2001.She is also the Life Time President of India's National Subjugation Council.

==

In India Officially and Legally one cannot criticise Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt.Criticising Her is a Crime Punishable By Capital Punisment and is also considered a blasphemy by her devout admirers.Since Criticising her is a Criminal Act one can rarely hear any one criticise her in India.Though a certain Person of Indian Origin who Fled India to live in Netherlands did dare to criticise Her Truthfulness in December 2008 through an article writtten on the said person's blog which had been immediately removed when it came to the notice of Her Truthfulness.After the said incident one hasn't heard of the Criticisng Blogger.Certain unconfirmed reports suggest he has been Assassinated or may be Murdered.The only other person ever to have criticsed Her Truthfulness was ceratain chief of India's Navy.The Said person was publicly executed for commiting such a crime and his execution was broadcast Live on Endy T.V.The broadcast received the highest T.R.P ratings ever recorded on Indian Television.Following the execution most of her critque's went underground and according to UnNews sources are still operating under the banner of an underground organisation called Can You Please Take Barkha Off Air which is fairly active on Facebook.The Organisation has been named By Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt as the Greatest internal Security threat that India has ever Faced.

===

Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt after executing all her critique's and enemies took over the control of India and since then the country has been renamed as the United Empire of ENDY T.V..Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt is it's Empress and controls all power.Her Devout admirers occupy important government positions.Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt claims that she is only person fit to rule India(now known as the United Empire of ENDY T.V.) because every great person from Shashi Tharoor To Narayana Murthy have praised her and she has won all the greatest awards Mankind has ever known.Since Her Rise To Power along with India's name, India's official Motto has also been changed it now reads Satyameva Barkha Aham Barkhameva Jayate(Truth alone is Barkha and barkha alone triumphs) from the former Satyameva Jayate(Truth Alone Triumphs)

==

Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt is a storehouse of great knowledge(or as Severus Snape would like to say an insufferable know it all) and has authored a million books.

How To Speak the Truth
How To Stop Others from speaking the Truth(Awarded Nobel Prize for literature,Booker Prize,Pulitzer prize etc etc etc)
Only I have the Freedom To Speak
I,Me and Myself,The Greatest
Barkha's Dictionary of Proper English(Better than Oxford)
How To Spread Truth
I am Better than Mahatma Gandhi at experimenting truth
Justice is delivered only in My show
How to Make a buck stop
How to make we the people into Barkha's people
There is only one God and that is Her Truthfulness Barkha Dutt,Empress of The United Empire of ENDY T.V.and probably the world and the universe.(guiness book record for longest title of a book)

 

[singhvp]

LOL LOL

GOI has different plans though:

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=59635

http://sify.com/news/government-committed-to-speedy-justice-sonia-news-national-kd1tkhbehfg.html

http://ncrsamaylive.com/NewsDetails.aspx?lNewsID=142944&lCategoryID=105


I was under the impression that this is 'what' in FACT happens;
Can you enlighten us (at least me) further on the issues of similarity/differences/modus-operandi of a Panchayat and a kahp? Detail'er the better.

Seriously, i am very much interested (especially in knowing the difference in their approaches to any case/issue). Will be GREAT if you can share any anecdotes (in case you have been to any Khap or panchayat in your life).

Government's intention does not seem to be giving any extra-constitutional authority to any Khap. It is not clear what would be the shape and jurisdiction of the proposed gramin nyayalayas. Presume, Panchayat would be given some judicial powers of arbitration in civil matters and not the criminal cases.

There is a basic difference between a Panchayat and a Khap. While Khap represents only a particular section (Gotra) of any particular caste, Panchayats are more representative consisting of people from more than one caste and gotras of that particular village. Being a representative of different castes and gotras, Panchayats are constrained to be more democratic than the Khaps which do not follow any democratic system for electing their Pradhan who issues the dictates according to the whims and fancies of only the influential people in the Gotra. Whilst Panchayats are democratically elected bodies having legal sanctity, Khaps do not enjoy the same status. Again, Panchayats have jurisdiction primarily in matters like civic management, developmental activities and some other welfare measures concerning the village. In some States, Panchayats have the jurisdiction over primary education also but have no say in criminal jurisprudence.

 

[singhvp]

Intelligent boy, are you, Jitender, and very much speaks like honourable Barkha Dutt....ah yes, in break we will learn about Her Highness more...Which is :-

Though it is very difficult to grasp the essence of the long message, it is a reality that the fourth estate is the only hope for common man to know what is happening backstage India's political salons. Barkha is an upright journo, par excellence and always maintained high standards of jouirnalism. Barkha has given new dimension and status to the electronic media and deserve to enjoy an iconic status. Hats off to her bravery and clarity of vision. There is no doubt about it. But comparing her to Christiane Amanpour does not seem to be fair as the lady of Iranian origin has always been anti-India.