maddhan1979
Banned
There are few languages spoken by some isolated groups in some regions, that might be connected with these ancient roots.
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Jat Scythian Identity
- Thread starter maddhan1979
- Start date
There are few languages spoken by some isolated groups in some regions, that might be connected with these ancient roots.
maddhan1979
Banned
There is a Jat gotra called "Kundu", and "Kund" means a pond. Most ancient Scythians were nomadic people and used to connect with water sources to feed their livestock. This is one connection to Scythian identity besides the linguistic identity, in Indian diaspora there has been lot of wars and movement of people, therefore leaving some communities, it is hard might be hard to connect Sycthian identity based on skin color, facial features, etc., although some communities have been able to maintain their identity since ancient times. Wars also mean loss of families, women, children etc., therefore it is hard to say true identity based on physical evidence, more solid evidence for warring communities has been the family names and other living connections, which were passed on through generations via language.
There is family name called "Taalhan", which literally translate to "Taal= water area, a meer or mir and Han= horse riding people from central Asia and other places approached mostly via silk route".
Most probably his name came into existence when ancient nomadic horse riders, tribes travelling vast distances came and settled in areas around water bodies.
maddhan1979
Banned
There is family name called "Taalhan", which literally translate to "Taal= water area, a meer or mir and Han= horse riding people from central Asia and other places approached mostly via silk route".
Most probably his name came into existence when ancient nomadic horse riders, tribes travelling vast distances came and settled in areas around water bodies.
Family names like Taalhan and Mirdha point to hunnic origin and people coming from "Meer or Mir"
jatofbhiwani
New member
Jats as never defeated warriors came from Central Asia as part of Mongol army and settled in northern India ,afganistan and Pakistan . Those in afganistan converted to Islam and started the Mugal ( Mongol in Persian is called Mughal ) dynasty while those in northern India adopted Sikhism or Hinduism. . Proof - Jats came to be known as a power after 1100 ad - close to the time of Mongol invasion of India. Surnames like Tahlan , ganghas, chahar - there is a chahar province in Central Asia . As the conquered indoschythians the same warrior genes are testament of a fact of us being in army winning medals in Olympics or excelling in medicine ,buisiness if directed properly else end up fighting each other. Whether it' acting buisiness army police, Olympics a Jat when decides to do something achieves it as we were never defeated.
maddhan1979
Banned
Besides the above stated facts few clans came from middle east,,, these clannish identity seems to be connected with Hunnic roots. Words like "Sinsin var", might mean people coming from "Sina region", but then again these might have been Hunnish tribes who followed old Silk route.
maddhan1979
Banned
Besides the above stated facts few clans came from middle east,,, these clannish identity seems to be connected with Hunnic roots. Words like "Sinsinvarl", might mean people coming from "Sina region", but then again these might have been Hunnish tribes who followed old Silk route.[/QUOTE;l
This root might not be related with Scythian migration to India but rather movement done using animals as a means of transport. Major portion of Jat migration seems to be connected with Scythian roots and central Asian migration
maddhan1979
Banned
There are few languages spoken by some isolated groups in some regions, that might be connected with these ancient roots.
Lot of these language groups can be discovered in different tribes following other religions besides Hinduism. Why? as Scythians came from central Asia and other regions, and Hinduism is native to India therefore people who are not following Hinduism might be still retaining the language spoken by their ancestors before these language group tribals adopted different religions like Islam, Buddhism, etc.
maddhan1979
Banned
Besides the above stated facts few clans came from middle east,,, these clannish identity seems to be connected with Hunnic roots. Words like "Sinsin var", might mean people coming from "Sina region", but then again these might have been Hunnish tribes who followed old Silk route.
Correction: "Sinsinvar" , the correct form is "Sinsinval"
maddhan1979
Banned
Correction: "Sinsinvar" , the correct form is "Sinsinval"
but these do not seem to be original roots interms of migration and identity
maddhan1979
Banned
Lot of these language groups can be discovered in different tribes following other religions besides Hinduism. Why? as Scythians came from central Asia and other regions, and Hinduism is native to India therefore people who are not following Hinduism might be still retaining the language spoken by their ancestors before these language group tribals adopted different religions like Islam, Buddhism, etc.
Why the languages survived in Islam and other religious groups, just because the people following these religious groups were still isolated and were not heavily influenced by forced religious thought process.
jatofbhiwani
New member
Besides the above stated facts few clans came from middle east,,, these clannish identity seems to be connected with Hunnic roots. Words like "Sinsin var", might mean people coming from "Sina region", but then again these might have been Hunnish tribes who followed old Silk route.
Mongols like Jats did not used to marry in same clan. Wives were brought from other clans while daughters were married to other clans. There are no other tribes in history who follow this tradition. One unique feature of Mongols is that wherever they settled they adopted native culture whether it's Afghanistan or India
maddhan1979
Banned
Tribes living in the land we cal Mongolia today, at what point of time in history,,,here the tribes that are being talked about were living in BC era in central Asia and present day Mongolia, Siberia, parts of China.
maddhan1979
Banned
Many Jats and similar tribes might not have been aware of the things discussed here, what we fail to recognize is that lot of rural + city population of the community might be unknowingly part of large religious network that is not favorable to the. These religious networks work works in different forms from creation of gods to creating empathy for the downtrodden.
While the fact remains that true migratory tribes are still at the same level of thought process as they were in medieval times.
While the fact remains that true migratory tribes are still at the same level of thought process as they were in medieval times.
maddhan1979
Banned
The family names like "Talhan",Kundu, etc. show the root namification at the time of migration of these tribes. There could have been several tribes which came and settled at different time periods at later stages of migrations near a "Tal or a Kund", but that does not make the later tribes part of "Talhan" legacy, why? Again "Taal" could also be symbolic recognition of "Meer" in local languages.
One reason might be due to wars in the name of religion, feudal wars, etc., it is very much possible that the tribes which settled near different water sources at later stages of migrations could be soldiers running from wars, some local tribes settling near water areas,women and children settling near the water areas after wars, etc. Names like Talhan, Kundu are root names which were usually given at the time of mass scale migrations of people from far of areas. Maybe such names existed at the time of Scythian invasion around 4th century AD.
One reason might be due to wars in the name of religion, feudal wars, etc., it is very much possible that the tribes which settled near different water sources at later stages of migrations could be soldiers running from wars, some local tribes settling near water areas,women and children settling near the water areas after wars, etc. Names like Talhan, Kundu are root names which were usually given at the time of mass scale migrations of people from far of areas. Maybe such names existed at the time of Scythian invasion around 4th century AD.
maddhan1979
Banned
The family names like "Talhan",Kundu, etc. show the root namification at the time of migration of these tribes. There could have been several tribes which came and settled at different time periods at later stages of migrations near a "Tal or a Kund", but that does not make the later tribes part of "Talhan" legacy, why? Again "Taal" could also be symbolic recognition of "Meer" in local languages.
One reason might be due to wars in the name of religion, feudal wars, etc., it is very much possible that the tribes which settled near different water sources at later stages of migrations could be soldiers running from wars, some local tribes settling near water areas,women and children settling near the water areas after wars, etc. Names like Talhan, Kundu are root names which were usually given at the time of mass scale migrations of people from far of areas. Maybe such names existed at the time of Scythian invasion around 4th century AD.
and there is a Jat family name called "Meerdha", "Meerdha, itself is a symbolic recognition linked to tribal identity", but most of these cultures of ancient nomads/horse riding people might not be aware of this identity of themselves or these ancient links. While the religious and educated sections of the society might have been aware of these ancient recognition of these identities for long in ancient past. One of the easiest way to take the historic links away from ancient nomads would have been to take away the horses of the these people and put these ancient tribes to hard work of agriculture. In ancient times when agriculture was not mechanized, it was the hardest work. Although mechanization of agriculture might have changed the scenario now. This domestication of these ancient nomads not only reduced their movabilty but also reduced their population, economic and military power in long run.
maddhan1979
Banned
and there is a Jat family name called "Meerdha", "Meerdha, itself is a symbolic recognition linked to tribal identity", but most of these cultures of ancient nomads/horse riding people might not be aware of this identity of themselves or these ancient links. While the religious and educated sections of the society might have been aware of these ancient recognition of these identities for long in ancient past. One of the easiest way to take the historic links away from ancient nomads would have been to take away the horses of the these people and put these ancient tribes to hard work of agriculture. In ancient times when agriculture was not mechanized, it was the hardest work. Although mechanization of agriculture might have changed the scenario now. This domestication of these ancient nomads not only reduced their movabilty but also reduced their population, economic and military power in long run.
"Meerdha", could also mean sense of direction, i.e. the tribes from central Asia migrated into India from several directions
narenderkharb
Active member
Really sad to see the quality of discussion in such an important section. Pure guesswork and tukkafication presented as History of Jats
About sixty years ago (1955), my grandfather who retired as a judge and became an armchair historian, attempted to create a link between the Jats and Medes/Scythians (see "Antiquity of Jat Race" in the Book Section of this website). Using DNA science and other knowledge that did not exist during his time, I have recently published the following article that may of some interest.
http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fgene.2017.00121/full
Essentially, the Scythian origin of the Jats, as their "sole" ancient origin, cannot be supported based on recent developments in DNA science. The Jats, along with many other ethnic groups of the Indian subcontinent, have "several" different origins.
Dave Mahal
http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fgene.2017.00121/full
Essentially, the Scythian origin of the Jats, as their "sole" ancient origin, cannot be supported based on recent developments in DNA science. The Jats, along with many other ethnic groups of the Indian subcontinent, have "several" different origins.
Dave Mahal
Ek Maddhan ji ka favourite talk aur ab DNA study :sleeping: .......main to saral batlayi baat maan leti hun mere "Dadda" ki........ki hum Aryan class hain aur purely kshtriye hain. Maa aur Zameen do cheez ke liye always active by God's grace :moon:. Everything associated with justice is given priority and this was mine which I realised by my genes without any DNA report.
But now things has changed with time and incidents of life, seems DNA also changed :tongue:
But now things has changed with time and incidents of life, seems DNA also changed :tongue:
Last edited:
About sixty years ago (1955), my grandfather who retired as a judge and became an armchair historian, attempted to create a link between the Jats and Medes/Scythians (see "Antiquity of Jat Race" in the Book Section of this website). Using DNA science and other knowledge that did not exist during his time, I have recently published the following article that may of some interest.
http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fgene.2017.00121/full
Essentially, the Scythian origin of the Jats, as their "sole" ancient origin, cannot be supported based on recent developments in DNA science. The Jats, along with many other ethnic groups of the Indian subcontinent, have "several" different origins.
Dave Mahal
It confirms that Jat was a federation. Panini, the great Sanskrit grammarian and logician was born in Salatura in Gandhara (present day Kandahar) in modern Afghanistan who mentioned about the Jats in his classic, Aṣṭādhyāyī(अष्टाध्यायी), in the form of shloka as " जट झट सङ्घाते " (Jat Jhat Sanghate). And, this shloka highlights that the terms 'Jat' and 'democratic federation' are synonymous. He has also mentioned many Jat clans as settled in Punjab and North-West areas.