Jatland and Sikh Jats

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rajeshsindhu

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This question has been raised by some Jats( specially by Sikh Jats) multiple times : Why "jatland" is not for Sikh Jats???
What do our jatland members opine on it? Should it be opened for Sikh Jats ? Why and why not?


-Rajesh
 
To my opinion, JATLAND is for a more specific group of jats which pictures itself once you log on to this. Though there are many many comparisons and details about different Jats (sikhs, muslims etc.) and also well explained on this site, but how much we can relate to the other Jats. At least I can't !!
We may have similarities with Sikh Jats but we do not have many things in common. And I belive the sole purpose of this site is to bring the people of our community more close and work towards the betterment of our people. Once we have different groups (even they are Jats but they are quite different from the Jatland Lot). And the site would become a total Khichari. We all understand and relate to our Jattoo bhasha.
Though I know in earlier days, many jat families had a tradition for the elder son to grow hair and have a turban and even in my family several arranged marriages are into Sikhs but there is always a line of different traditions which keeps a certain difference.
That's an absolute individual opinion and I look forward to other opinions for making 'JATLAND' a common forum for all sorts of people called Jats or be more specific.
I am not in favour to include Sikh Jats on to our JATLAND.
 
Sanjay Malik (Sep 04, 2002 02:25 a.m.):
NO WAY!!
WE SHOULD NT MIX 24 K GOLD WITH SO CALLED SIKH JATS!
Click to expand...

well said sanjay # i second u & seema
 
Off course the decision of including Jat Sikh to Jatland is entirely depends on the majority vote, but I would like to present my views on the subject. I wouldn't mind JAT Sikh to be part of Jatland. I lived with them and have tasted their nature and behavior. When I was in Firozpur(Punjab) and later in Ambala(Haryana), I had Jat Sikh friends. Actually One of my best friend is a JAT Sikh(MANN Gotra). We were together playing Cricket, Studying, Outing and even fighting. If you ask me, I do not see much difference between a Hindu Jat and a Sikh JAT(Except the religion). Yes we do have different religion, but if you leave the religion aside, they are more close to us then any one else in the world. I have been to Punjab Village, and to Haryana village and Rajasthan Village and UP Village. They are all same in culture, family values, respect for elders and hard work.
And last, if we are interested, we can learn a lot from them.
That's it.

Please Note: The above written comments are not meant to hurt anyone, they are purely my views based on my experience with JAT SIKH.
 
Bhai Rajesh
Your observations are interesting but when the Mahasabha was being convened and some young Muslim Jat contacted me to participate in it,the bulk of the feed back on jatland was against the idea and many wise members counselled me strongly against the very thought. My submissions on this are as follows.

The Muslim Jats are different from us mainly in their having embraced another faith usually at the point of a sword and rarely but not without exception out of a genuine sense of seeking a new faith. How are the sikhs different especially when they have not changed their faith but infact have evolved a new entity of their own choice and free will. Today any one in the Punjab who dares to speak of Hindu SIkh common entity is threatened with the loss of his life why then should we practice these double standards.

The point you make is not without merit, but a dichotomy in our thinlking is not something we can afford when Jatland is in a nascent stage and still evolving a philosophy for its raison de etre. Let us become intellectually and professionally clear and honest in our own entity before we seek any radical departure from the present course. I like Nitin's Philosophy of giving issues and people the space they need to develop before taking any strong stands. Just for my information what was your own thought on the subject of the young Muslim Jat who wanted to attend the Mahasabha.

Amit Dahiyabadshah
 
Bhai Rajesh

A Jat is a jat is a jat.There cannot be Sikh Jat without a Jat.The new group was formed to protect the hindus.it was to save them from Muslims.Basically it is a sect forms by Hindus to protect Hindus.Later on because of the five "K" .Guru Govind Singh gave them a new name Sikh,but they are hindus only.It is not a new religion.Guru Nanak was a Sant Like Sant Ramdas (in haryana)and sant Tukaram(in maharastra)or sant kabir but other sant were not able to start new religion infact they all have diffrent type of principal and teachings.

People followed Kabir are called Kabirpanthi.
Like nowdays we have Rajneesh(osho),Vyas wale maharaj Or ek tu hi nirankar(i am not getting the name of them).

they donot have new religions.Not even Gautam Budh Or Mahavir had new religions.They had different sayings of peace.but they never preached about new religions.

Thanks to Our politician for so many religions.

All Jat from punjab are Jats Like us they just speak different language. Culture and traditions are same even marriages takes places between us.
even in punjab all Jats are mostly farmers.
so why not let them join them.

Even on jatland jats from Rajasthan,UP or MP
can`t chat or involve much like Jats from Haryana Or Delhi.these two states have more Lathhmaar style and people are more extrovert comparetively.

They must be invited !!
Please Note: The above written comments are not meant to hurt anyone, they are purely my views based on my experience with JAT from Punjab..
 
i too agree with Seemaji and Bhai Sanjay .
why make a khichdi of JATLAND??
sorry, Nareshji i differ with u on this issue.
 
well as they say a jat is a jat is a jat probably as many pepl think that there might be a hotch potch of cultures if we invite sikh jatts too but at the same time for hindu jats and sikh jats to be difreientiated at is wrong so a solution to this must be sought after
 
greetings!
here i come to play the devil's advocate!?!

So far, looks like that those who are in favour are appending their stand with some convincing arguments/experiences. But those who seem to be against are relectant to substanciate their stand with some convincing arguments/experiences.
So friends! come up and open your hearts and minds both( let me and others please know the composition of this "khichari"!). Its just a inhouse discussion, and has no bindings and obligations.

-Rajesh
 
One more reason against the idea may be that the sikhs already have several sites of their own so why duplicate a facility that they already enjoy. Also they have a strong religious base for many of their ideas something that the Hindu Jats do not. So we may be opening a window of vulnerability here wherein the more reticient Hindu Jats who need this forum to find their own voice might be marginalised or diluted especially in the opinion forming process.

The forum could also wind up being hijacked for causes that we do not espouse especially religious ones. On the Blue Star operation the sikh priests were able to provoke one of the finest regiments in the Indian Army to Mutiny and they actually Killed their unarmed CO. On the Ayodhya issue every Tom Dick and Harry have tried to convolute matters by throwing in their two bits worth except the Hindu Jats who have demonstrated the greatest maturity by completely ignoring this messy issue which offers no win-win options.

A SOLUTION To THIS EMOTIONAL PROBLEM
____________________________________
I tend to agree with those who want Jatland to essentially remain a Hindu Jat forum. But why cant we offer an observers facility to all other Jats who may visit the site but not comment on members debates and discussions. They could however leave their comments and opinions on a special Visitors book type of page.
 
At this stage it does not look like We are ready to have Jat Sikhs or any other group as members.The reason is very obvious that our cultures inspite of similarities have a lot of differences too. Believe some of our educated Hindu Jats are proving handful let us first establish a coherent social group who can identify with Jatland like they do with their own family. One must learn to walk before attempting to run. A visit to one of the Jat Sikh websites will clarify this point beyond any reasonable doubt. Give it a try if you like.
 
I am against including them here.

My personal view is Pubjabi is much more advanced than haryanvi. They have much more places to put their voice. They have more famous songs and movies than us. Moreover they have their own script and litreature. It completely sperates them from us. I personally can't understand their language well. They are Sikh first and Jat second, Here Hindu first and jat second.

We don't have much palces and hence I am not in favour of sharing this stage with them. My veiw should not be mistaken as of low morale.
 
Bhai Bijinder
I dont know how many Jats are Hindus first and then Jats. My gut feel on this is that we are Hindus in a gentle non polarised and non activist sense. We are essentially Jats first and then Hindus, havent you come across the expression 'Kaum Dharam Desh' I think it clearly spells out our basic but un polarised priorities and position in this regard. But perhaps I am speaking as a Jat whose roots are tempered by the Arya samaj. Jats who are influenced by the Sanaatan Dharma may be inclined to view themselves as Hindus first. Do you agree?

Amit
 
Durray Rohit! Bhai tu Jatu bolta Australia pahuchliya Kay. Aur ib Jatland tay kis kis nay kaadnaa chaah sai. Teri ya baat kammil konya bhai. Jattu ho ya Angreji Baat aur vichaar badiya honay chahiye bhai.
 
Correct me if i'm wrong...
1. 'Jats' is an ancient _race_(not caste), the race which has survived all times of history by their sheer guts, virtues and spirit. They never followed the perverted/distorted/orthodox form of hinduism( dictated by selfish and cunny brahmins) thus always been thorn of selfish brahmins' eyes. But they believed into the real scriptures of hindu faith i.e. Vedas. Thats why they followed someone who talked about essense of hinduism, like Swami Dayanand, Guru Nanak, Gautam Budha etc. Guru Nanak never intended to establish a totally new sect/religion. He just tried to remove the orthodoxy and blindness, injected by selfish brahmins, from the hindu way of life.
The teachings of Sikhism and Budhism( by Gautam budha) are based on essence of Vedas.
So, i'm not sure about how many jats will identify them by 'Jat hindus', instead of 'hindu Jats'.
2. My personal experience: in college time we use to have 'Jat Group' ; and that group was consisting of both hindu and sikh jats. There was no difference among all the jats hindu or sikh. All were identified as jats only.
3. Socially accepted occurence of marriages among hindu and sikh Jats is biggest testimony of the fact that sikh and hindu jats are Jats first and hindu/sikh later. Cultural differences among hindu and sikh jats as not more than differences among Jats from Haryana and Rajasthan/UP etc.

4. Ya there are reports of life threatening warnings to those who talked about hindu sikh unity; but i think its more of political creation than that of society. Marriages among hindu and sikh jats are still very much happening as they used to be.

5. Politics had already created lot of bad blood among hindus and sikhs( not sparing hindu and sikh jats too), but none can deny the common roots/rituals/virtues shared by hindu and sikh Jats.

6. Ya, probabily we should not open the site for sikh Jats, because of many valid reasons mentioned by other bretherns. but first atleast lets identify our own basis of identification and existence.

Note: no any 'judgemental' tag please.

-Rajesh
 
Rajesh I agree and im glad to note that finally we enjoy concurrence on a topic.
My feeling is that the water crisis will eventually expand the crack in the Jat Sikh brotherhood. Also I think they hold us in contempt for our smoking habits.

Good wishes
Amit dahiyabadshah
 
i agree with you rohit , jatland pai tai woh hi aayee jo jatu bol sake ar samaz sake , na tai bhai taal maro.


quote]Rohit Guliya (Sep 09, 2002 10:32 a.m.):
jat land pe sirf woh aaye jo jatu me bol sake[/quote]

it's the
 
I think I agree with Rajesh.There is no difference between Jat and Jat Sikh. We have same last name and we get along with them whole lot more than Punjabi Hindus ,Brahmin and Bania. In Haryana all these casts get united in all forum to oppose Jats. As far as language is concerened Haryanvi Jats speak different than UP Jats. I also agree with other people that for the time being this site should be exclusively used for Jats(Hindu)
 
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