jatland cn have a debate on this article

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here is a very thought provoking article which was published in tribune some days back. i think members of jatland can have a healthy debate on this.

Spiritual crisis in Haryana society
Need to probe historical connections
D.R. Chaudhry

Haryana society is in the grip of a deep and all-embracing spiritual crisis. The spiritual atrophy, moral decline and social disorientation that one notices in every walk of Haryana society is not a sudden development. It has historical connections that need to be probed. The recent peasant movement in Jind district and the lynching of five Dalits in Jhajjar district are the latest instances that speak volumes of the malaise.

The Bharatiya Kisan Union (BKU) has been quite vocal in raising the demands of Haryana peasantry during the last several years. The prefix “Bharatiya” is highly misleading. There is nothing pan-Indian about this organisation. It is a badly splintered body with numerous factions in Punjab, Haryana and Western UP with no interconnection among them. One such faction launched an agitation in some villages of Jind and Rohtak districts recently on the issue of free electricity supply to farmers. The demand related not to free power supply for agricultural operations but for domestic consumption. The police fired at agitators in Gulkani village of Jind district and there were nine casualties.

There has been a number of localised peasant agitations in Haryana during the last one decade or so. The police resorted to firing and lathi charge at a number of places — Marhiali and Kadma in Bhiwani district, Nissing in Karnal, Tohana in Hissar and Gulkani in Jind district. About two dozen lives have been lost in the police action. With every round of killing, the tempo of the movement has gone down. The latest killing at Gulkani seems to have taken wind out of the sails of the BKU.

The BKU and other peasant leaders have never seriously taken up the issue of police high-handedness while dealing with the agitators. The emphasis has been on the monetary compensation to the bereaved families. At Gulkani, for instance, there is no evidence of any policeman having been injured in mob violence. Yet, the trigger-happy police of Haryana fired 400 rounds, injuring 40 farmers, nine of them fatally. Shockingly enough, there has been no agitation by any political party or some other organisation for punishing the guilty in the police after a high-level probe.

The main opposition party paid Rs 1 lakh to the nine bereaved families and the ruling party doled out Rs 5 lakh to six — the remaining three families were deprived on the ground that the cause of death in three cases had not been ascertained properly.

The only issue being raised by the BKU is about the compensation to these three families. The grouse of the BKU leadership at the moment seems to be that three corpses “did not fetch any price” and had to be consigned to the flames gratis. A leader of the main opposition party proclaimed that if his party came to power, they would pay Rs 10 lakh for each slain peasant. He seems to be saying. “The present government is inefficient and there is a slump in the market of the dead. The day we are in power, the market would pick up and the dead would command a higher price”. Financial aid to a family that has lost a bread-earner makes sense, but it should not become a substitute for human life which is the case now.

The scene is being replicated in the case of lynching of five Dalits. An amount of Rs 1 lakh has been paid by the main opposition party and Rs 5 lakh by the ruling dispensation for every slain Dalit. The matter should end here so far as the establishment is concerned. The demand for a high-level judicial or CBI probe has not been conceded. Every attempt is being made to save the police, the administration and the communal elements responsible for the carnage. The Haryana Government blocked the discussion on Dalit killings in the last Haryana Assembly session, and The Tribune rightly characterised it as “a day of state shame” (Oct 31).

The civilised nature or otherwise of any government is to be judged by the manner it treats its opponents, critics and dissidents. There was a prolonged student revolt in France in 1968 which was joined by workers and peasants as well, necessitating the takeover of the government by General Charles de Gaull, a hero of World War II. However, there was not a single casualty at the hands of the police in this countrywide turmoil. In India, the police kills at the slightest provocation. The situation is much worse in Haryana which has become a killing field and the police a killing squad.

The really worrying factor in Haryana is that the brutal face of the state power leaves the people cold. No stirring of conscience. No sign of any public ire. To quote a loaded phrase from Soren Kierkegaard, Haryanvis are living in a state of “tele-logical suspension” — a state of existence with no end or purpose in life. The sensibility has grown too coarse and crude. The people of Haryana seems to have proceeded on long leave from the realm of sensibility and are hibernating in the twilight zone of ethical emancipation. Do they constitute a comity of thinking individuals striving for the betterment of life or a throng of zombies in a state of trance? The question cries for answer. This necessitates a glance at the past.

The battle of Mahabharta, so valorised in our country, was essentially fought on the division of property in the plains of Kurukshetra in Haryana between two branches of a royal household. The reigning monarch of the time, Dhritrashtra, was blind both physically and metaphorically. He could see nothing but the interests of his progeny very distinctly. Women started losing in social status in this age. Yudhistra, the most virtuous of the Pandava brothers, staked Draupadi, the consert of five brothers, in the game of dice, treating her as an article of property. When an attempt was being made to unrobe her in the royal court, all the great warriors Bhishmapitamah, Dronacharya, Kripacharya and others — were mute spectators. It has been rightly characterised as a dark era by Dharam Vir Bharati in his play “Andha Yug,” an allegory on the futility of war.

Later on, when Shravan Kumar, a symbol of filial devotion in Indian mythology, reached Kurukshetra after taking his aged parents to many other pilgrimage centres in the country, he faced a sudden change of heart. His parents looked to be an encumbrance and he decided to discard them. It did not take much time for the realisation to sink in his mind that it was the jinxed and blighted land of Kurukshetra that was responsible for the evil brainwave and he resumed his journey. The process of moral decline and spiritual degeneration has been on since then.

In medieval times the institution of the state played an important role in the promotion of arts and culture. The Haryana region remained deprived of this. The impact of the Bhakti movement, a powerful liberating current in many parts of India, was quite weak in this region. The Indian renaissance, howsoever half-baked it was, barely touched this belt. The Arya Samaj was the only reform movement that influenced this region. Its positive contents like the crusade against untouchability, rituals and superstition fostered by the Brahminical priesthood and such other things have taken a back seat. As a consequence, a section of the Arya Samajists in Haryana today are as fanatical as some Hindu communal organisations in Muslim baiting. Haryana has grown in the shadow of Delhi and as such its growth has remained stunted. Examples can be multiplied to explain the moral depravity and cultural cretinism in Haryana society today.

The typical historical growth of Haryana has spawned a stratum at the top that is notorious for its crudity, aggressiveness and arrogance. Arrogance is in direct proportion to ignorance in Haryana. Things are taken for granted with a closed mind that leaves no scope for debate. In the self-seeking, self-serving and family-centric politics of Haryana, the state is laden with several modern Dhritrashtras who cannot see beyond their progeny. They treat the state as their personal fiefdom. Haryana has yet to see the growth of democratic culture and ethos. This is not possible unless the state passes through a phase of cultural renaissance. This makes it obligatory for Haryanvis to have a critical look at the past, evaluate it with ruthless objectivity and draw correct lessons, rising above caste taboos and totems. Only then can some meaningful social and political change be expected. This is a long haul. However, there are no short-cuts in history.

The writer is a keen observer of Haryana affairs.
 
Who is D R Chaudhry ??

Does any one know his full name, antecedents, his academic qualifications, what his P Hd is in ( Does he have one?).

Is he the same D R Chaudhry, the supporter of Nonica Dutta?

Both write Jat Baiting articles.

His facts ( if this story can be factual) are also wrong- the Shravan Kumar story is based at Meerut, the gate where it supposedly happened is called Lisardi Gate.


There is a strong need for more and more Jats to get involved, and write in the mainstream press, and not allow these Jat baiters to have a field day!

Ravi
 
Dear ravi, this is just for ur information that D R CHAUDHARY is not the one u r qouting as nonica duttas baiter. he is the former chairman of haryana public service commision and after that he published a weekly from rohtak called peeng. he is a frequent writer on the issues concerning the state in leading newspapers.
Ravi Chaudhary (Dec 24, 2003 12:07 p.m.):
Who is D R Chaudhry ??

Does any one know his full name, antecedents, his academic qualifications, what his P Hd is in ( Does he have one?).

Is he the same D R Chaudhry, the supporter of Nonica Dutta?

Both write Jat Baiting articles.

His facts ( if this story can be factual) are also wrong- the Shravan Kumar story is based at Meerut, the gate where it supposedly happened is called Lisardi Gate.


There is a strong need for more and more Jats to get involved, and write in the mainstream press, and not allow these Jat baiters to have a field day!

Ravi
 
Satyavir Hooda (Dec 25, 2003 03:41 a.m.):
Dear ravi, this is just for ur information that D R CHAUDHARY is not the one u r qouting as nonica duttas baiter. he is the former chairman of haryana public service commision and after that he published a weekly from rohtak called peeng. he is a frequent writer on the issues concerning the state in leading newspapers


********

Dear Satyavir,

thank you for the valuable information.



Allow me to apologize if I am mixing up two different persons , That is not my intention.

The D R Chaudhry I was interested in was the one who wrote the review below - URL

http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99nov21/book.htm

"A hardy people in search of new role
by D.R. Chaudhry"

It is him I would like to know more about ??

Even if it is the same person, I would like to understand a bit more , as to how this person arrived at his conclusions.

I think we should engage with him, debate his views with him, and change them.

Perhaps if you know the other D R Chaudhry, you could help!

Ravi





Ravi
 
Hi,
Satya Veer Ji, welcome on jatland.

Ravi ji, I also met Shri D R Chaudhary at Rohtak with Satya Vir Ji. He is very knowledgable and man of high integrity.
Why do not you write to him Satyavir should be able to get his email.
regards
Ishwar
 
Ishwarji

Many thanks

I will do so.

Who is this other " D. R. Chaudhry" ??

The confusion is arising perhaps because both names are spelt alike ?

Ravi
 
Dear All,

If I am not mistaken Shri DR Chaudhary is also the father of Ashwini Chaudhary, the maker of 'DHOOP'.

Regards,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)
 
I have read a lot "not so feel good" articles on Jats and also the very predictable responses from jats to these articles. These articles are not entirely true, but they are neither entirely fabricated lies. Throwing the baby out with the bath water only help our baiters. Trashing the article on technicality may win u the case in court of law, but in public court, its more abt perception.
 
Ravi ji,.i am from sirsa and let me tell u that these both pieces are written by D R CHAUDHARY . i read the link forwaded by u which was a review of a book by nonica dutta. i have been regularly reading articles and reviews written by D R CHAUDHARY. And i think it is not very appropriate on your part to call d r chaudhary a jat baiter even without knowing or reading much of his work.i think today he is one of the most learned and outspoken intellectual of the haryanvi society.as intelligensia of our community know him he is a man of high intigrity and self respect.his writings are widley read and appreciated.one can of course differ with is views but should be cautious in using words about him.if D R CHAUDHARY in his writings now and then writes that the jat community should introspect i dont think there is anything wrong in that. i dont c any logic in supporting people who r looting haryana because they are jats. i think people like u and others who are well read and well placed should understand the real socio political situation of the state and do something constrtive which people like D R CHAUDHARY are trying to do for many years. regards
Ravi Chaudhary (Dec 25, 2003 11:36 a.m.):
Satyavir Hooda (Dec 25, 2003 03:41 a.m.):
Dear ravi, this is just for ur information that D R CHAUDHARY is not the one u r qouting as nonica duttas baiter. he is the former chairman of haryana public service commision and after that he published a weekly from rohtak called peeng. he is a frequent writer on the issues concerning the state in leading newspapers


********

Dear Satyavir,

thank you for the valuable information.



Allow me to apologize if I am mixing up two different persons , That is not my intention.

The D R Chaudhry I was interested in was the one who wrote the review below - URL

http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99nov21/book.htm

"A hardy people in search of new role
by D.R. Chaudhry"

It is him I would like to know more about ??

Even if it is the same person, I would like to understand a bit more , as to how this person arrived at his conclusions.

I think we should engage with him, debate his views with him, and change them.

Perhaps if you know the other D R Chaudhry, you could help!

Ravi





Ravi
 
Dear Friends,

I read this article earlier and decided not to comment. Now that I see more replies, I have decided to put my views;

First of all I wish to point oiut that there is no use telling history again and again as it serves no purpose. I would have been happier if DR Choudhary and likes him suggest not only some remedies but go among people and work for the betterment. Knowledge in itself is of little value unless put to use.

Haryana is not the only one where families are in power politics. It all started in Delhi from Mrs Gandhi and then perculated all the way down. Today no state is lagging behind. In Maharastra you have thakres, in MP Shukla brothers, Scindias, in Tamilnadu one has Karunanidhis...list will go on even at village level. We all know its unfortunate, but has any one any solution, including DR Choudhary?

Now coming to spiritualism. Please remember that Jats have never been a spiritual community in general sense. We have been simple hard working honest people who remeber the God only when we start our work in the morning. All of you know that " Mala wala" jat is some one very rare.

Now coming to BKU. Villages of this country have failed not because of those living in villages, but because of those who abandoned the villages and are living in the comfort of cities. Writing scholarly articles in english about farmers by few persons like DR Choudhry is not going help them. If these authors or self proclaimed social reformers feel that the agitations of farmers are of poor quality, who stopped them joining the farmers movements and guide them properly ? I salute the north Indian farmers that at least they made their vopice heared in New Delhi. Look at farmers in Andhra and else where. Many of them took their lives when crops failed. To best of my knowledge nothing like this happened in north when we went through worst droughts. May be there is lot more these unions need to do, but at least they are doing some thing.

Police Cruality.. Please note that the police was created in India in 1858 to serve the cause of British and they are still governed by the same act. Police in Delhi, haryana, UP and for that matter in whole India is alsmot of same type who work for their masters. Party in power and in opposition are both alike. They are two sides of same coin. Most promotions are by dubious means and I am sure Shri Dr Choudhry will know that being a former chairman of Haryana Public Service Commission. Please permit my bluntness or ignorance whatever one wish to name it. I wonder if Mr Dr Choudhry got his assignment as chairman of the commission by merit alone. We all know how Vice Chancllers and Chaimen are appointed in India. Least said is better.

Art & Culture: Every community has its merits and short comings. Jats by nature have never been good in fine arts like music, paintings, dance and drama etc. Its no use blaming them on this issue. There are up and downs in the life of every community and its no use just criticizing them. Mugals were once great powers and we all know what happened to them. Point here is that how we regain our place in society ? How to guide the Jat youth so that they follow the path of progress ? Let us ask our selves. How much time we so called educated jats spend among the rural drunken jat youths to guide them and to show them the better path ? I will say hardly any.

Without going in more details, I would request Dr Choudhry through this posting to come up with solutions and suggestions as how to improve haryana society in general and Jats in particular. I am not disputing what all he wrote as this is a matter of general knowledge and most of us know.

Regards
Rajendra
 
Sir, it is good that some kind of debate have started on the article forwaded by me.it is unfortunate that the writer of the article is not participating in the debate. i think he is not a member of this site.but people like us who are concerned with the problems of the state and the jat community at large know that people like d r chaudhary are asset to our state and society. i have never met him. it will be good if somebody can get his email or ask him to participate in the discussion here. but his credentials as far as i know cannot be questioned.i hereby agree with a member wha has said that we should not comment on somebody unless we are aware about him and his work.and u have said that whatever he has written is comman knowledge and he should come out with solutions but one member has called him jat baiter for the same facts which u call as comman knowledge. i think v have to be more open minded and introspective if v have to grow and go forward. i have seen that people have developed a kind of tendency just to ignore and write off people when they raise basic and true questions which are at times embrassing.debate is all right but not this attitude.and i think no one person can give solutions as u have said. i think people like d r chaudhary and others who from time to time raise questions and take stand on various issues play a very important role in keeping the society awake abot issues of larger interest. and i think such effort should be appreciated. quote]Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Dec 26, 2003 09:21 a.m.):
Dear Friends,

I read this article earlier and decided not to comment. Now that I see more replies, I have decided to put my views;

First of all I wish to point oiut that there is no use telling history again and again as it serves no purpose. I would have been happier if DR Choudhary and likes him suggest not only some remedies but go among people and work for the betterment. Knowledge in itself is of little value unless put to use.

Haryana is not the only one where families are in power politics. It all started in Delhi from Mrs Gandhi and then perculated all the way down. Today no state is lagging behind. In Maharastra you have thakres, in MP Shukla brothers, Scindias, in Tamilnadu one has Karunanidhis...list will go on even at village level. We all know its unfortunate, but has any one any solution, including DR Choudhary?

Now coming to spiritualism. Please remember that Jats have never been a spiritual community in general sense. We have been simple hard working honest people who remeber the God only when we start our work in the morning. All of you know that " Mala wala" jat is some one very rare.

Now coming to BKU. Villages of this country have failed not because of those living in villages, but because of those who abandoned the villages and are living in the comfort of cities. Writing scholarly articles in english about farmers by few persons like DR Choudhry is not going help them. If these authors or self proclaimed social reformers feel that the agitations of farmers are of poor quality, who stopped them joining the farmers movements and guide them properly ? I salute the north Indian farmers that at least they made their vopice heared in New Delhi. Look at farmers in Andhra and else where. Many of them took their lives when crops failed. To best of my knowledge nothing like this happened in north when we went through worst droughts. May be there is lot more these unions need to do, but at least they are doing some thing.

Police Cruality.. Please note that the police was created in India in 1858 to serve the cause of British and they are still governed by the same act. Police in Delhi, haryana, UP and for that matter in whole India is alsmot of same type who work for their masters. Party in power and in opposition are both alike. They are two sides of same coin. Most promotions are by dubious means and I am sure Shri Dr Choudhry will know that being a former chairman of Haryana Public Service Commission. Please permit my bluntness or ignorance whatever one wish to name it. I wonder if Mr Dr Choudhry got his assignment as chairman of the commission by merit alone. We all know how Vice Chancllers and Chaimen are appointed in India. Least said is better.

Art & Culture: Every community has its merits and short comings. Jats by nature have never been good in fine arts like music, paintings, dance and drama etc. Its no use blaming them on this issue. There are up and downs in the life of every community and its no use just criticizing them. Mugals were once great powers and we all know what happened to them. Point here is that how we regain our place in society ? How to guide the Jat youth so that they follow the path of progress ? Let us ask our selves. How much time we so called educated jats spend among the rural drunken jat youths to guide them and to show them the better path ? I will say hardly any.

Without going in more details, I would request Dr Choudhry through this posting to come up with solutions and suggestions as how to improve haryana society in general and Jats in particular. I am not disputing what all he wrote as this is a matter of general knowledge and most of us know.

Regards
Rajendra[/quote]
 
Dear Kamal,

In all times when society went through bad phases, there were persons whom one can call assets. I must clarify that being vocal asset alone is not enough to transform the society. One must have to enter the mud to clean it. I will give you few examples to clarify my stand.

There were persons like Vidur during Mahabharat who could do little except resigning into their hide outs. Even Lord Krishna could do little except to accept the fate. I am not saying that one should not make efforts to change just because others won't change.

What I wish to emphsize is that its no use reciting historical reasons of all the ills all the time. High time we take action and come out with solutions which are implementable. Every second person in India can describe the ills in society but few have guts to work for the betterment. I would apprecaite if Sri DR Choudhary can form a forum which can take up the issues and work among people.

Regards
Rajendra
 
Sir i agree with u in principle. but u will also agree that every society needs people who can understand and analyse the problems faced by it and its causes.such people have their role to play. every person has his own means of contributing back to the society.i here do not agree with ur viewpoint that if people like mr chaudhry feel so strongly about the plight of farmers then why they do not join the farmers struggle.u will here agree with me that people all over the world have contributed in the process of social change through their writings.journalism,litrature,theatre and other forms of media has always played a very major role in every sphere of life everywhere.i think people like u and mr chaudhary are the concious keepers and opinian makers in the society. otherwise lots of people write on various issues and also react about them on this very site but in actual life they do nothing to change the things for the better.and i hear that mr chaudhary is very active on the social front in haryana besides his writings.they need all our respect and encouargement. i think u will agree with me on this.thanks.
Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Dec 27, 2003 12:42 a.m.):
Dear Kamal,

In all times when society went through bad phases, there were persons whom one can call assets. I must clarify that being vocal asset alone is not enough to transform the society. One must have to enter the mud to clean it. I will give you few examples to clarify my stand.

There were persons like Vidur during Mahabharat who could do little except resigning into their hide outs. Even Lord Krishna could do little except to accept the fate. I am not saying that one should not make efforts to change just because others won't change.

What I wish to emphsize is that its no use reciting historical reasons of all the ills all the time. High time we take action and come out with solutions which are implementable. Every second person in India can describe the ills in society but few have guts to work for the betterment. I would apprecaite if Sri DR Choudhary can form a forum which can take up the issues and work among people.

Regards
Rajendra
 
I do not dispute any one's contribution. In Mahabharat also all were great warriors and great in their own way. However, still things went bad. If history is being quoted as reference to the ills, one has to come out with remedies also. I will like to invite all these great people to join here on debate for the remedial action. We have had lots of eyewitness accounts of the state of affairs in the society. We all know that 70% of the India lives in villages. How much of their time these people spend in villages to improve the lot of this so called spiritually sick society ? Do these so called spiritually sick people really know who we all are and talking all this about their sickness at Jatland? What I am trying to say is that the time is for action as there have been lots of debates on these topics and every one knows what is wrong. Irony is that in spite of knowing it all, we are hardly attcking the problem by bulls horns.

Regards
Rajendra
 
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