Karam Bada ya Bhaav aur kesse

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Dear friends.
me is madhyam se ek satsang kar raha hu ye to mujhe bhi nahi pata ke galat kar raha hu ya theek me kissi ki bhavnao ko thes nahi puchana chahta;

Bageer bhav utpann huye karam nahi ho sakta' pahle bhav gian indri me pedaa hota he phir phir karam kiya jata he magar phir bhi ham karam ko hi pradhaan mante he .....kyon

example....sabse pahle chori karne ka bhav uttpann hua phir hamari karam indri dwara karam kiya gaya to phir karam badaa kesse hua


reply ka intzaar raheega
 
I am a karam yogi, so I think that Karam hi bada hai.
Geeta saar - Karam kiye ja, phal ki chinta mat kar.
Main bhaav ko bada is liye nahi maanta kyonki bahut se log apne man mein bahut se acche bhaav la sakte hain lekin jab tak un par karam nahi kiya jaayega, tab tek ve kuch bhi nahi hain.

For example, main apne man mein ye bhav la sakta hoon ki aaj main daan karoonga, lekin jab tak main daan na karoon, tab tak kya faayada. Woh bhaav wahin dhara ka dhara reh gaya.

Just my 2 cents!
-Satyeshwar
 
Satyeshwar Singh (Feb 25, 2003 03:37 p.m.):
I am a karam yogi, so I think that Karam hi bada hai.
Geeta saar - Karam kiye ja, phal ki chinta mat kar.
Main bhaav ko bada is liye nahi maanta kyonki bahut se log apne man mein bahut se acche bhaav la sakte hain lekin jab tak un par karam nahi kiya jaayega, tab tek ve kuch bhi nahi hain.

For example, main apne man mein ye bhav la sakta hoon ki aaj main daan karoonga, lekin jab tak main daan na karoon, tab tak kya faayada. Woh bhaav wahin dhara ka dhara reh gaya.

Just my 2 cents!
-Satyeshwar
Click to expand...

Ditto
 
dear Satyashwarji
daan karne ka bhaav utpann to hua lakin karam to hua hi nahi phir bada kesse bhaav ne to janam le liya ke daan karna hei magar daan to kiya hi nahi phir bhi karam bada hei kesse
 
Karam Bhaav se bada hai ..........humare man main har roz kai bhaav aate hain par hum un par amal nahin kar paate hain ....aur bhaav achche bhi aur bure dono hi hote hain ....par bhaav karma se bade nahin ho sakte kyonki karma hi un bhaav ko poora karta hai .....aur humaare man main kai baar kisi khtama karne ka bhi bhaav aa jaata hia uska yeh matlab to nahin hai ki hum khooni ho gaye .....is liye bhaav ka koi mol nahin asli mol hai karma ka.....
 
Amit Sansanwal (Feb 26, 2003 08:21 a.m.):
Karam Bhaav se bada hai ..........humare man main har roz kai bhaav aate hain par hum un par amal nahin kar paate hain ....aur bhaav achche bhi aur bure dono hi hote hain ....par bhaav karma se bade nahin ho sakte kyonki karma hi un bhaav ko poora karta hai .....aur humaare man main kai baar kisi khtama karne ka bhi bhaav aa jaata hia uska yeh matlab to nahin hai ki hum khooni ho gaye .....is liye bhaav ka koi mol nahin asli mol hai karma ka.....
Click to expand...


Pyare Bhai Amit

Akal badi ke bhains. Bhav akal ma aate hain aur ye bhains rupi sarir karam karta ha. Jis tarah bhav acche bhi aate hain aur bure bi, usi tarah ye sarir rupi bhains acche karam bhi karta hai aur bure bi. Phir karam kaise bada hua. Kya ye possible hai ki bagair bhav aaye, hum koi kaam kar sakte hain.
 
hello bade bhai,
aar mere man main bhaa aaye aur aar ain usko apna karma nahin banoon to woh bhaav mere anadr hi reh gaya ya nahin.....aur hamare karam hi hain jo hamare baare main batate hain ...bhaav to sirf huin hi pata hain....bhaav main to main sabka bhalaa karoon aur karma main apna bhi bhalaa na kar sakoon aur ka bhalaa to door ki baat ....to fir un bhavon ka kya mol huaa....main maanta hoon ki har karma ke pehel diaa ain bhaav aata hai .....par phir bhi kai karma aise haim jinke pehle bhaa bhi nahin aata jaise humein pata chale ki humare upar kuch girne waala hai yaa hamari takkar hone waali hai to hum bina bhaa ke hi karma kar dete hain.....par aisa koi bhaa nahin jiska kisi dooore ko bina karma kiye pata naa chale .....aur hum kisi ke bhi baare main uske karma se jaante hain naa ki bhaav see aur aisa hi bhagwaan ke ghar hoga.....
 
Phogut ji,
Main aur Amit ek hi baat keh rahe hain aapse, hehe!
Chalo main aap se ek aur prashan poochta hoon jis se yeh spasht ho jaayega ki kaunsa bada hai....

Ek mahaan vyakti hua, woh apne karmo se mahaan bana, kya uske maata-pita ko us se bhi adhik mahaan kaha jaayega keval is liye ki unhone us mahaan vyakti to utpann kiya??
I don't know about you, but my guess is that most people would say "NO" to this question....

Do you see my point, now? Keval is liye ki bhaav ne karam ko utpann kiya, hum bhaav ko karam se bada nahi maan sakte.

-Satyeshwar
 
Bhai Bagh,

Ya tannai 2 cent ki nahin ghane million dollaran ki baat keh dee sai. I agree with you more than cent precent. Keep it up.

And to add to the same thought I would have the following 2 cents:
Bura karam and bura bhaav donon hi kharaab hain, and nek bhaav as well as nek karam donon hi acchee cheezein hain......and the final crux is that:
Jab tak acche bhaav aur acche karam ka milan nahin hoga tab tak donon mein se kisi ko bada nahin kaha jaa sakta...aur jaise hi donon ka milan hoga donon ko equal credit jaayega....

-Anurag

Satyeshwar Singh (Feb 25, 2003 03:37 p.m.):
I am a karam yogi, so I think that Karam hi bada hai.
Geeta saar - Karam kiye ja, phal ki chinta mat kar.
Main bhaav ko bada is liye nahi maanta kyonki bahut se log apne man mein bahut se acche bhaav la sakte hain lekin jab tak un par karam nahi kiya jaayega, tab tek ve kuch bhi nahi hain.

For example, main apne man mein ye bhav la sakta hoon ki aaj main daan karoonga, lekin jab tak main daan na karoon, tab tak kya faayada. Woh bhaav wahin dhara ka dhara reh gaya.

Just my 2 cents!
-Satyeshwar
Click to expand...
 
bhai satyashwar ji
jaissa ki aapne likha ek vakti mahan hei lakin uske parents to mahan nahi ho sakte yahan me ek baat kahna chaaungaki agar uske parents use janam nahi dete to o mahan kesse ban sakta tha
parents ke mahaan karam ke anusaar hi to uska janam uske parents ke ghar mei hua
pehle mahan bhaav utpann hua phir karam hua phir mahan vakti ne janam liya
tabhi to woh mahan bana. me to yahan yehi kahoongake uske parents ke mahan karam jo sabhi ne milkar kiya tha ussi ka phal tha rest u r the better judge to decide
i shall reply this topic tomarrow
kindly see my reply kya bhagwaan hei so that u can under stand the real meaning of this topic
 
Very interesting topic boys and am glad to learn that young Jats have such good thoughts. I will try and put forward my views which may be some what divergent and will be more than happy to expand on them.

We all know that thoughts lead and action follows. As stated here " Geeta teaches us Karm Kiye ja phal ki chinta mat kar". Key words here are Phal and Chinta. The context in which it is used is that while we are engaged in action we should not worry (Chinta) too much about the results but that does not mean we should do any thing without thinking about results. So what is Geeta trying to tell us whether action is better than knowledge or devotion is better than both of them. All three are important and difficult to put a demarkation because a Karm Yogi is only as good as his knowledge and devotion to God. Depending on one's Parvarti one chooses the path of action (Karmyogi),knowledge(brahman)or devotion (Bhakti). Quite often we find one person possessing a combination of all three. Jats being active by nature find it easy to devote to Karma which must be guided by right knowledge (Bhava) to be non-binding. All actions are faulty unless they are done through the spirit of detachment (not easy to do but quite possible).

It would be appropriate to ask here what decides our Bhava whether they are good or bad. What controls Bhava is our nature (Parvarti) that is why two brothers born of same parents living in same house can have entirely opposite nature, one can be very good and other one can be very bad even though parents taught them the same things. Our nature is decided by our spirits which are purified through Peanance or Tapsya.

Therefore it follows logical sequence that a liberated spirit will possess right knowledge or Sadbhav which in turn will lead to Sukarm favoured by Karm Yogi. Because Karm Yogi is always united with Parmatma he does not credit his achievements to himself or this body. Because right knowledge tells us that nothing is yours not even this body. It is only lent to us to work towards our salvation through one of the modes of libration e.g. Karma,Knowledge and Devotion. It is a false knowledge that we try to attach our selves to this body and all that is associated with it including our Karmas their results and those to whom we begin to love. They are all transient and it is absolutely certain not to last very very long then why be so attached to them that departing makes us sad. It is a tall order but that is the ultimate truth I think.

Therefore We can safely say that neither Bhava is superior nor Karma but their ralationship is that of a parent and child, Bava being parent and Karma being child. Like cow gives birth to a calf and Sheep gives birth to lamb and not other way round we can say that Karma is only as good as bhava.
 
Pyare Bhaiyo,

Theek, Ab mujhe Mahabharat ka woh seen yad aa raha hai, jisme Duryodhan aur Arjun dono ne Krishan se ladae ki madad mangi thee. Duryodhan ne Krishan ki saari fauj mangi parantu Arjun ne sirf Krishan ko manga aur woh krishan jo ladai ma koi hathyar nahi chalayega. Phir Pyare bhai Aap kaise karmo ko bada maan rahe hain. Krishan ne to Arjun ko bhav diye koi ladai nahi ladi. Aur agar saari fauj ke karam se ek aadmi ke bhav jayada important hain, tabhi to Arjun ne usko manga tha. Isiliye Bhav karam se bada hi hota hai. Anyway, ek aur aisa hi yudh chal raha hai, usme bhi ek Krishan hai, aur fauj bhi hai. Krishna akela bhav se kam le raha hai. Jabki Fauj ne kam bigad rakha hai aur krishan ki hi tang bhi khinch rahi hai. Krishan ki yahi koshis hogi ki bhav ko cash karwaya jaye, taki bigada kam bane. Ab bhi jit Krishan ki hi hogi. to be continued.....
 
No doubt Arjun knew about Bhav and Karm of Krishna who was not an ordinary human being thus his Karmas did not bind him. He did not have to do any thing or achieve any thing but performed his duties for the sustainment of World. Pandavas benefitted not only from Bhavas (these things are only applicable at ordinary human level) but from infinite spiritual power emanating from Parmatma himself. Then how could they loose. In his blind arrogance Duryodhan did not realise it and paid dearly for his ignorance. We all pay dearly for our ignorance in our lives and only fortunate ones can find guides like Krishna to steer them to victory. This Mahabharat is fought in our daily lives every day.

Coming back to your question of whether Bhav is superior to Karam is like saying whether PC is superior or Windows 2000 without one, other can not perform it's duty. Therefore both are equally important but what is superior to both of them is inspiration which comes from freedom of spirit. Those who communicate with their ownselves or Atma have no confusion as to what is to be done under given circumstances they possess Bhavas of highest order and perform their Worldly duties as perfect Karmyogis not waiting for some one to teach them what is right and wrong. Another analogy which applies here is like which came first egg or hen ?

Another thing which lot of us ignore is that spiritual progress does not follow any logic and one can not analyse it using analytical tools available to us. What we can see is the effect of it. Some people may take many births to reach a certain level of spiritualism where as others may reach it in a much shorter period. What Karma does one do is not as important as what inspires him to do that and what is his motive. Doctor and Goonda both use knives one uses it to cure the patient and other to harm him. Because Doctor's motives are noble people respect him and goonda is despised because his motives are mean.
 
Sheorayan Shahib Karam kaun karvata hai?

(1) Mun
(2) Budhi
(3) Chit
(4) Atma
 
dear dahiyaji,


mann maya me fansker kar sanklap viklap karta hei mann ke ander bhaav utpann hota hei aur wo use budhi me transfer kar deta hei. phir budhi nirnay karti hei ke is kaam ko kiya jaye ya nahi, agar nahi to bhav budhi me store hoker reh jata hei agar karam karta hei to phirsaraa kiya hua karam chit me record ho jata hei aur jab martu aati hei tab bhagwan us file ko apne compucter ke dwara dekhta heiphir use lakh chourissi me jo bhi karam ke anussar uchit hei sharrir roop dharan karta heiaur bhogta hei karam karne ke liya aap azaad hei magar bhogne ke liye aadhin . atma bhagwan ka roop hei uska samband sif jeev ke saath heei, jeev hi karam karta hei jeev hi bhogta heikaram ke anussar trah trah ke roop dharn karne padte isse hi lakhchourassi kahte hei
 
respected uncle sheorayan ji,
Thank you very much for participating in this topic. i have gone through your message wherein u have write that bhaav is like a father and karam is like his son but here i feel necessary to mention that how a child can be bigger than his father? if yes, how , that was my question. if , no, than why we called that karam hi bada hei


i also agree that karam hi bada hei but , how?
 
dear Satyashwar ji,
mahan vakti o apne karam se bana vo duniya ki nazar me mahan hei magar uski nazar me uske mata aur pita mahan hei jinhone usko janam diya
 
Dear Shyam,

Thanks for the message !

You do possess a fine mind and analytical skills. Just kidding please don't mind.

Coming back to your question about Karam and Bhav. Without Bhav Karm is not possible and the nature of Karm will also depend on the Bhav under whose influence the karm was performed. That is why they say by nature all Karm is binding and cause of rebirth. By elevating our Bhavas we try and improve our Karmas which once risen above self can liberate us . Because Bhav can not be seen it is difficult to be judged by others but Karmas manifest in physical world they can be witnessed by others and from analysing the Karmas we try and guess about the Bhavas of a person. That is why we call some people to have good savbhav or bad savbhav because we see how they perform in their daily life and how they treat other humans and creatures.
For the Karma to be liberating the doer has to rise above all three gunas.Until that time all Karmas have inherent defect pride and ownership being most common. Remember what Arjun said " That I will not fight " Krihsna's response was that you can not do that because he knew that Arjun's Bhavas will force him to pick up arms and fight even if his emotions say otherwise at that instant. Son can be superior to father age and relationships are not the factors when it comes to Bhavas and Karmas. Prahlad was superior to Harinakashyap and all hindus acknowledge it.
 
Respected Sheorayan ji,
Reply of my topic is that KARAM hi bada hei , kesse. kya bhaav , sharir roop ke bina peda ho sakta hei. uter bhi yahi hoga .... nahi
bhaav sharir roop me hi peda hota hei, to iska matlab hua ki bhaav se pehle , sharir roop peda hua . ab agla sawal uth ta hei ki, kya bager karam kiye sharir roop mil sakta hei. iska bhi uter yahi hoga ki ......nahi

to sabse pehle karam hi peda hua, agla sawal uth ta hei , karam ko kisne peda kiya yaha me yahi kahna chahta hu ki karam ko bhagwan ne peda kiya ab sawal uth ta hei ki bhawan ke ander pahle bhaav peda hue hoga
jab bhagwan ka koi sharir roop hi nahi hei to bhaav peda hone ka sawal hi nahi uth ta. ate
jab karam peda hua tab uske ander apne aap ,karam kiryaee peda honi saru ho gayee, jinme4 se ek karam kirya dwara24 tatve ikthe hue
panch tan matryee 1 sparsh 2 rash 3 gandh4...,,,,5....... i forget now
panch mahabhoot 1 aakaash 2 agni 3 vayu 4jal 5 prithvi
panch gian indri ...u know better
panch karam indri ...u know better
char antekaran ki matarayee
1mann2 budhi3 chit 4 ahankaar
jahan ye 24 tatve ikthe hue waha per jeev ki utpatti hui aur unhone sharir roop dharan kar liya jee chetna se sabhi ne apna apna kaam karna saru kar diya dusri kiryaao se
4 yug 1 satyug2 dwaper3 treta 4 kalyug peda kiye anee kiryaon se, 3 pralaya 1 nit prilaya2 nimit prilay 3 maha prilay peda hue kuch kiryaon se lakh chourassi peda hei jinko chaar bhago me bantaa gaya . ikkish lakh essi jo jer se peda hoti hei, ikkis lakh essi jo ande se peda hoti hei , ikkish lakh essi jo a methunik sharshti, jesse barssat me kide makode nikal jate hei aur ikkiss lakh essi jesse ped podhe inke sab sharir roop banegayee taki karam ke anussar vessa hi sharir roop dharan karke bhogta rahe. so all my dears and elders Karam hi bada hei
 
excellent post ......
Phougat jee aisi posts aur banaiye hamara bahut gyaan badhta hai ......
aapko bahut shukriya for such nice posts
Thank you
 
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