Kashmir kiska hai

Timings of Pakistani Attack: I think militarily they attacked a week or two early. Having seen the rampage the Pakistani intruders created; Maharaja Hari Singh had no option but to call for an Indian intervention. I think here; Indian politicians acted well by asking him to sign the article of accession. I am sure there might be a lot of negotiations at the table and hence the present situation. If the Indian Army had not reached at the time they actually reached it would have been impossible to drive intruders back due to blokage of the routes leading to the valley due to snow fall.

Blaming Pakistanis and Britishers for every thing that happened during the partition is not a right thing to do. Actually blaming our own politicians may also not be the right thing either. There are two reasons, firstly no body could predict the future at that time. The government in India thought that Hindu's and Muslims have lived together for centuries and they did have more similarities then differences. Further, there were number of influential muslim leaders within the ruling party in India. I would say, if we did not get what we wanted at that time; it was because Pakistani Political Leaders could get more from the International community then our leaders, or there were some personal political interests within our own leaders.

If you see the Line of Control and the population on either side of it you would understand it a little better. When Indian army was on winning spree and the Pakistani intruders were running back; we accepted the cease fire. We might blame Mr. Nehru for that since he was the PM at that time, but he alone might not have been able to make this decision, if our cabinet committee had morale courage to prevent Nehru doing what he did. I would say every leader in ruling party should share the blame; if they did not raise a voice against the cease fire. It was important for Mr. Nehru to withstand the international diplomatic pressure to give that ONE week FM Carriappa wanted to liberate entire Kashmir.

The liberation of entire Kashmir was however not beneficial to Mr. Sheikh Muhammad Abdulla. With the divided Kashmir; the population in the Valley (the vote bank of Mr. Abdulla's National Conference) accounts for almost 59% of the total population of Indian Kashmir. People say that it was Sheikh Abdulla how pursuaded Mr. Nehru to accpet the cease fire, but we must remember that Mr. Abdulla was not the PM. Further the Cabinet if were not in agreement with Mr. Nehru; had every right to move a "No Confidence" motion against him and elect a new leader.

That much is for the history. We will discuss it further on the issues from that point onwards till date.

NOTE: I have noticed that there are no more posts from Mr. Aman Hooda on this thread. If he is banned by the moderators; may I request the moderators to allow him to participate.
 
In near future I don't think Kashmir issue is going to be solved. No political party in India has agenda of taking PoK back. Be it China's help, but it's a damn reality that Pakistanis also have nuclear ability. If India try to grab PoK back, it may cause nuclear war. Moreover no country (specially China and USA) will like it that India get PoK back. So presently it's time to wait and watch. Wait till either India get any anti-nuclear weapon technique or initiation of world war or attack by Pakistan first. Moreover a leader (like Narender Modi or so) is also necessary. Congress can never have agenda of taking PoK back. Mostly Kashmiris don't want to merge in Pakistan. High voting % in assembly elections last year there has proved it. We all Indians should ever be ready to face the heat over Kashmir because Pakistanis can do any mischief any time. But I am dead sure in future India is certainly going to rock.
 
Nomenclature is important.

Kashmir is simply the Kashmir valley, which conjures up these romantic vision or beautiful landscapes, the Dal lake, Shikaras etc etc.

We also have Ladakh, and as Col Tewatia pointed out the Pir Panjal range, etc.

Let us not forget Jammu.


The Pakistanis , supported by some Indians have generally been calling the whole area Kashmir, and thus giving an advantage to the Pakistanis over the years in the PR war.


It is not just " Kashmir" the valley.
Ravi Chaudhary
 
Ravi, Col Tevathia
What has happened in the past can't be undone. We have to take a fig leaf from Chinese Conquest of Tibet. Once they annexed Tibet they flooded the whole region with Han Chinese and rule it with iron fist. 50 years later every single nation pays homage to Emperor Hu, all they do is talk about autonomy of Tibet within china nobody talks about liberation of Tibet from china. Liberation of Tibet has been reduced to car bumper sticker that are donning the trash cans of this world.
We must eliminate article 370, make it open for all Indians to settle their, systemtically eliminate threat to Indian nationhood, national security. Few generations down it will be a subject of discussion among history books.
 
Many of us strongly believe that Pakistan/China will launch nuclear weapons on India if India will try to fuel any insurgency in these countries. Be its a Balochistan or Tibet. USSR was much stronger than China and Pakistan and they had more nuclear capabilities and missiles and still they were not able to avoid the disintegration of USSR.

I am trying to make a point on Kashmir, Pak/China occupied kashmir can be claimed back. India has to support Baloch movement morally and politically. Its 40% of total Pakistan Area and it'll jolt Pakistan like hell and It'll help to divert the attention of Pakistan from Kashmir to Balochistan.

I really appreciate the patience of Indian armed forces in Kashmir in dealing with mob issues now a days. As I said earlier, Kashmir (Jammu, Kashmir and Ladkakh Region) was a part of India as per the deal and we must stand for that deal and keep it on horizon somewhere to claim this huge chunk of land.
 
Kashmir:

1. What is the ancient history of kashmir?

2. Who are kashmiri muslims? Are they descendants of Indian hindus, buddhists?

3. Why can't there be a impartial vote as to whom they wish to join?

4. If Kashmiris want to be just independent of India and Pakistan, can it survive as a nation?

5. What do Kashmiris hope to get after becoming part of Pakistan?

6. If Pakistan wants freedom for Kashmiris why can't India just ship all of them to Pakistan and keep the land of Kashmir for itself!

7. What happens to China occupied part of kashmir, the one it won from India and the other Pakistan gave it for free?

8. How long is this going to go on?

9. Does Pakistan wants only Kashmir or in reality it is that muslims of Pakistan want to rule infidel hindus again? I mean take over all of India itself?

10 . Now I know that many Indians and Pakis are chums when they are living outside their respective countries. The same people who would be at each others throats! That is a puzzling, contradictory situation!
 
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Dear Aman,

Here is my answer to your questions

1. What is the ancient history of kashmir?
There are a lot of books you can read about the ancient History of Kashmir. It is a Himalayan Kingdom which was once ruled by Maharaja Ranjit Singh. Gen Jorawar Singh is one personality you may be interested in reading about. Kashmiris have fair complexion; high cheeck bones and sharp features. That is because of many of Alexender’s soldiers did not return with Alexander and settled in that region; presumably because of the cold weather that was more akin to Europe. They mingled with the locals, got married and hence the theory. There is a town called Mendher (it was in news last year for terrorist operation going on there), that is named after one of the Generals of Alexander. There is also a town called “Bafliaz” that was the name of Alexander’s horse.

2. Who are kashmiri muslims? Are they descendants of Indian hindus, buddhists?

I believe, Kashmiri muslims are the result of conversion of locals whether Hindu’s or any other tribe into islam. Buddhists living in the area must be as result of Buddhist monks going and spreading Buddhism all over the world like far east and China.

3. Why can't there be a impartial vote as to whom they wish to join?

As I had mentioned in my earlier post. There are Strategic and Economical reasons for us to keep Kashmir as part of India. Further, the population in Kashmir is a mix population of Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists. We have similar mix in the main land. Regarding impartial Vote. Well it is too late to do that now, for no vote at this stage would be impartial. The UN Resolution of 1948-49 stated; first Pakistan Army has to withdraw from the Kashmir; then the Indian Army has to withdraw from the Kashmir and then the vote will be done. Since Pakistani army never withdrew from Kashmir; nothing else followed. If Pakistani army had withdrawn from Kashmir in 1949; and vote taken; in all probability it would have voted to be part of India rather than Pakistan; purely due to the memories of Pakistani rampage being fresh in the mind of people.

4. If Kashmiris want to be just independent of India and Pakistan, can it survive as a nation?

An independent Kashmir would be a land locked nation like Nepal and Bhutan. Both these nations are heavily dependent on India for the access to the sea ports, the cheapest means of mass transportation. Further, from Indian stand point; our withdrawal will give access to Chinese to enter the area. With terrain helping the nation whoever holds Kashmir, the stakes are too high to be risked. So, cost of maintaining Kashmir really does not reflect the real strategic picture. Since most of the voters don’t understand these issues; politicians exploit it. I wonder if most of the regional politicians understand the issue as well.

5. What do Kashmiris hope to get after becoming part of Pakistan?

None. Acutally, many Pakistanis living outside Pakistan; already feel that Pakistan is a failed state already. How long can it sustain with the current political scenario is any one’s guess. Probably Pakistan currently is ripe for revolution.

6. If Pakistan wants freedom for Kashmiris why can't India just ship all of them to Pakistan and keep the land of Kashmir for itself!

How about Jats asking for Harit Pradesh in Uttar Pradesh. Why can’t they be shipped to Haryana so that public of Uttar Pradesh can keep the land. The answer is Kashmiris own that land.

7. What happens to China occupied part of kashmir, the one it won from India and the other Pakistan gave it for free?

Might is right. If we want it to get back we have to fight for it. It would not come diplomatically. The stakes for China are high in that area for that is the only land route to Tibbet they have.

8. How long is this going to go on?

I have no idea. I guess; till the time people get educated and realize that it is no one’s interest to keep fighting. The best solution to Kashmir problem is to maintain the status quo. Convert the Line of Control to the International Border and then defend it.

9. Does Pakistan wants only Kashmir or in reality it is that muslims of Pakistan want to rule infidel hindus again? I mean take over all of India itself?

Kashmir is an issue easily salable by politicians in Pakistan. So, if you win the vote on an issue, you need to do something about it to prove to public. They have fought a few wars and got defeated. The best way to keep their policy alive is to fight the proxy war and that is exactly they are doing. And remember Pakistani rulers are answerable to their public and not to me and you.

10 . Now I know that many Indians and Pakis are chums when they are living outside their respective countries. The same people who would be at each others throats! That is a puzzling, contradictory situation!

I would not be surprised if Indian and Pakistani politicians also Chum when they meet outside their respective countries. You must remember it is all business there. None of the terrorist organization manufacture any weapon, yet they have them all. In fact I was quite surprised to know that LTTE even had aircrafts. They have no business to raise that kind of money. Looting and arson can’t give that amount of money either.

I hope I answered your questions in shortest and clearest possible way. I don’t have any documents to prove my analysis, it is purely my understanding of the subject, which is open to debate.
 
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Dear Aman,

.

7. What happens to China occupied part of kashmir, the one it won from India and the other Pakistan gave it for free?

Might is right. If we want it to get back we have to fight for it. It would not come diplomatically. The stakes for China are high in that area for that is the only land route to Tibbet they have.

.

I think Akasi Chin doesn't provide any road access to Tibet. Chinese built even rail track till Lahasa. They are plenty of roads to reach Tibet from all over places in China. I agree that its all about Might is Right.

Akasi Chin also provide road link between Pakistan and China.. Its an ideal route for them to supply rogue weapons to Pakistan. Sea routes are gernally risky and ships can be engaged by Indian Navy in Indian Ocean.

View attachment 9517
 
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http://www.coolscooters.info/tibetmaps/road_map_1.jpg

http://www.softdawn.net/china/maps/geomap.jpg

Dear Mr. More,
You are right. There are a few more highways that China has built. Actually, any other nation would have built to control a region that feels illigal annexation and, having inhospitable routes leading to it. I really don't know what is the state of these highways and the terrain they go through, possibilities of getting road blocks due to land slides or inclement weather. Both the maps I have attached above; don't give me a pleasant picture of the highways coming from other directions. Actually I was able to notice two of them. I did not see the railway line though. Might be they might have built a railway line within Tibbet. If you have any map showing the railway line; kindly do share with us. I am sure with technological advances that are taking place any thing is possible.

No matter what China has built to link Tibbet to mainland China, Aksai Chin still is a strategic route that helps China militarily and hence the importance of the region for china.
 
http://www.coolscooters.info/tibetmaps/road_map_1.jpg

http://www.softdawn.net/china/maps/geomap.jpg

Dear Mr. More,
You are right. There are a few more highways that China has built. Actually, any other nation would have built to control a region that feels illigal annexation and, having inhospitable routes leading to it. I really don't know what is the state of these highways and the terrain they go through, possibilities of getting road blocks due to land slides or inclement weather. Both the maps I have attached above; don't give me a pleasant picture of the highways coming from other directions. Actually I was able to notice two of them. I did not see the railway line though. Might be they might have built a railway line within Tibbet. If you have any map showing the railway line; kindly do share with us. I am sure with technological advances that are taking place any thing is possible.

No matter what China has built to link Tibbet to mainland China, Aksai Chin still is a strategic route that helps China militarily and hence the importance of the region for china.

Please find the link below:
http://www.tibettraintravel.com/TibetTrainMaps.htm
 
Dear Mr. More,

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it.
Actually that should give us incentive to link Valley by more than one train route to the main land. We also need to do something to protect our communication to through the Chicken Neck area from Pathankot to Jammu and Akhnoor region. The distance of national highway 1A is too close to the border, and hence the need to have an alternative route. We have seen the consequences a road block can have on military operations or maintainance of a particular region during the Kargil Crisis.
 
Dear Mr. More,

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it.
Actually that should give us incentive to link Valley by more than one train route to the main land. We also need to do something to protect our communication to through the Chicken Neck area from Pathankot to Jammu and Akhnoor region. The distance of national highway 1A is too close to the border, and hence the need to have an alternative route. We have seen the consequences a road block can have on military operations or maintainance of a particular region during the Kargil Crisis.

I was in China last year and some Chinese guy was comparing Lhasa rail project with Kashmir Valley Rail Project.. He was updated with facts and figures. I was shocked to know that we started that project in 1960s and It still hasn't been completed. We definitely need better connectivity with Jammu.. Heeranagar sector is really a bottle neck for us. In any next conflict with Pakistan, They'll put their major efforts to block this point and bombing on Kargil highway to cut supply for Ladkah/Siachin. I read somewhere that they are building some tunnel near Rohtang pass to keep the Leh Sector open round the year for army.

They are also building a new highway between Jammu and Srinagar. Recently, Indian Airforce has activated some old air strips in Ladakh region. These all are encouraging steps. Only issue is we don't know when these project will get completed.

Jawahr tunnel is another road block, In case of tunnel closure, valley cuts off from rest of India and we haven't come up with any concrete plan to tackle that situation.
 
We need a strong leader to accomplish and strengthen our territory. I believe that Indira was the only such leader. Recently I read that Indians were building a road in Ladakh under NREGA yojna, and few Chinese officials entered inside Indian territory and stopped the work. After that the work was stopped. I also found the link:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/china-allegedly-stops-nrega-projects-in-ladakh/108439-3.html

I have also read that Chinese have built roads upto Arunachal borders whereas we dont have any infrastructure in Arunachal specially in the areas close to border. Chinese army can reach Arunachal in hours whereas Indian Army wont be able to mobilise in such short period. Anyway my intention is not to divert the attention to border disputes with China but they have crucial interest in Kashmir too especially Ladakh region. What I know from newspapers is that Pakistan also gifted some part of Kashmir to China. Here is the link. They gifted close to 5000 sq km to China. Why govt never raises this issue with Pakistan is beyond me.

http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=33544



I was in China last year and some Chinese guy was comparing Lhasa rail project with Kashmir Valley Rail Project.. He was updated with facts and figures. I was shocked to know that we started that project in 1960s and It still hasn't been completed. We definitely need better connectivity with Jammu.. Heeranagar sector is really a bottle neck for us. In any next conflict with Pakistan, They'll put their major efforts to block this point and bombing on Kargil highway to cut supply for Ladkah/Siachin. I read somewhere that they are building some tunnel near Rohtang pass to keep the Leh Sector open round the year for army.

They are also building a new highway between Jammu and Srinagar. Recently, Indian Airforce has activated some old air strips in Ladakh region. These all are encouraging steps. Only issue is we don't know when these project will get completed.

Jawahr tunnel is another road block, In case of tunnel closure, valley cuts off from rest of India and we haven't come up with any concrete plan to tackle that situation.
 
We need a strong leader to accomplish and strengthen our territory. I believe that Indira was the only such leader. Recently I read that Indians were building a road in Ladakh under NREGA yojna, and few Chinese officials entered inside Indian territory and stopped the work. After that the work was stopped. I also found the link:

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/china-allegedly-stops-nrega-projects-in-ladakh/108439-3.html

I have also read that Chinese have built roads upto Arunachal borders whereas we dont have any infrastructure in Arunachal specially in the areas close to border. Chinese army can reach Arunachal in hours whereas Indian Army wont be able to mobilise in such short period. Anyway my intention is not to divert the attention to border disputes with China but they have crucial interest in Kashmir too especially Ladakh region. What I know from newspapers is that Pakistan also gifted some part of Kashmir to China. Here is the link. They gifted close to 5000 sq km to China. Why govt never raises this issue with Pakistan is beyond me.

http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=33544

I think going from Democracy to building the nation is quite succesfull model in last century ( US,UK,West European countries, Australia etc.)
Some block of countries flirted with Junta, Communism,Aristocracy,Monarchy. Most of these countries failed to devloped the nation and some percentage was able to develop the strong nations(China, Russia etc)

Eventually when these countries tried to venture on democratic path, they failed major uprisings, challenges and other issues.

I think China hasn't think about democracy yet but whenever she'll think about this change, They'll see some downward movements.

Its my assumption may be wrong..coming back to KASHMIR KISKA HAI.. Kashmir Kashmiriyon ka hai aur woh kiske nahin hote
 
Dear All,

I don’t think there are any doubts in anyone’s mind as to what is this ‘Maslaa – e – Kashmir’. For those still in doubt please refer to UN website (resolution of 1949), old threads on this subject and resolutions made in Indian Parliament over the years on this issue. I wish to make a few other comments regarding this issue.

1. Resolution of this problem or not shall decide whether this nation is going to remain as one entity or not. We are still an emerging democracy. But for brief period in our history when the villages were republics, we have never practiced democracy (which is a bad form of government as per few philosophers) and were always ruled by monarchs and autocrats. There is a fear that if we don’t have a strong leader and strong centre, the fate of erstwhile Yugoslavia awaits us.

2. The J&K problem has now become a business like any other. I have written about it earlier and won’t repeat myself. In Kashmir Valley alone there are around 8-10 Divisions deployed, including on the LOC. Each Division’s monthly pay, drawn in cash from banks is about INR 300 Million. Even if the ‘Faujis’ send half of it to their home, the other half is spent locally, as in buying food items, dry fruits, furniture items, Kashmiri Shawls etc. A quick calculation reveals that INR 18000 Million per annum is ploughed into the Kashmir Valley and it goes directly to the local population. Therefore, whenever there is a talk of reduction of forces, militancy increases. If you withdraw the Indian Army, the money too disappears. Therefore, it is business. ‘Faujis’ die for the country and Kashmiri’s fill their pockets. No wonder J&K bank is one of the topmost banks when it comes to performance. They are flush with funds.

3. I used to tell Kashmiri’s that if you make me PM of India, I shall solve the problem in a month. They use to ask me how? I would say “I shall withdraw the Indian Army from the Valley and redeploy on the Pir Panjal and handover the Kashmir Valley to Pakistan. Then the Pathans and Baluch Regiments shall deploy. First they will pick up all the young boys, then girls, then your mothers. Once that happens you will know how good the Indian Army was. Then you will ask for arms from us to start an insurgency”. After hearing this they would say “Insha Allah app Kabhi bhi Vazire Azam na bane”. I hope members understand the pun!

4. If the same polity continues, it is my firm belief (I hope I am proved wrong) that India shall be partitioned once again, this time right through the middle. History repeats itself and the same seeds that were responsible for the First Partition of Bengal are being sown in West Bengal and Andhra Pradesh in the name of Muslim reservation. The governments are busy in ensuring safety to film goers (My name is Khan) and the poor are dying on the streets of national capital due to cold. Is this governance? Angrez susre char Kode mar ke impartial te thay!

I have a feeling that something bad is looming over this country. IAS couple in Chattishgarh had 220 bank accounts with INR 400 Million stashed away. There is a race on and there is incresing frustration in society. No wonder the Maoists thrive.

And by the way, Indian Army did not lose the 1962 Battle with China. It was the policy of the then Nehru Government that made sure we lost. An Army's morale is directly proportional to the political will of the government, proper equipment, training and leadership. If the nation doen not equip the forces (Indian Artillery is still waiting for the guns since they bought Bofors in 1980's), don't blame the 'Fauj'.

Best regards,

JS Malik
 
Lt. Col Malik
I almost died laughing at this post of yours........
I used to tell Kashmiri’s that if you make me PM of India, I shall solve the problem in a month. They use to ask me how? I would say “I shall withdraw the Indian Army from the Valley and redeploy on the Pir Panjal and handover the Kashmir Valley to Pakistan. Then the Pathans and Baluch Regiments shall deploy. First they will pick up all the young boys, then girls, then your mothers. Once that happens you will know how good the Indian Army was. Then you will ask for arms from us to start an insurgency”. After hearing this they would say “Insha Allah app Kabhi bhi Vazire Azam na bane”. I hope members understand the pun!
This is a story narrated by my friend who was deployed in Afghanistan...In 2004, near helmand they were called to mediate in a dispute and the dispute was two warlords were ready to "declare jihad" on eachother for a 10 yr old boy. ISAF company commander was so dumb founded, that for good 2 minutes that seemed like eternity, he couldn't even say anything, of course ISAF lost the initiative at that time, it was a quick thinking of Sgt First class who threatened both warlords if they did not release the boy, he will launch full aerial attack by apaches that were hovering for cover and they both will lose their men and leadership, then other warlords will make hay on what is left...needless to say they both agreed and the little boy was saved.

Kashmiri's are living the high life of privilege with no responsbility and all the privileges with subsidized food, fuel, and luxuries.

I have a feeling that something bad is looming over this country. IAS couple in Chattishgarh had 220 bank accounts with INR 400 Million stashed away. There is a race on and there is incresing frustration in society. No wonder the Maoists thrive.
I agree and concur, I have the same feeling too, there are way too many undercurrents on collision course just a matter of time--they will come to fore.
And by the way, Indian Army did not lose the 1962 Battle with China. It was the policy of the then Nehru Government that made sure we lost. An Army's morale is directly proportional to the political will of the government, proper equipment, training and leadership. If the nation doen not equip the forces (Indian Artillery is still waiting for the guns since they bought Bofors in 1980's), don't blame the 'Fauj'.
here are some videos released by Chinese Military about 1962 war. They have indeed done a good work on propoganda in hiding their agression and blaming India for that. The caption and translation is computer generated. As anyone can see how poorly equipped Indian Army was at that time, "Thank You, Baapuji and Nehru Ji--we are always indebted to you for the humiliation and defeat". Chinese Army is wearing cold weather heavy coats and Indian Soldiers are wearing Fauji Sweaters...don't know how were our fauji's suppose to win a war. Second video shows the tenacity of Chinese in capturing and intercepting Indian Supply lines especially Isapore SLR Rifle and ammunition. Atleast they treated some Indian Soldiers with dignity and respect even if it was for propoganda reasons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgfFpojG4GM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XstW0q0efY4&feature=related

Regardless of Bollywood BullS**t and Lata Mangeshkar songs the reality is totally different. My question--how come all the perpetrators of this defeat were never brought to accountability, why was post war inquiry report ever made public.
These are some tough questions that we all have to ask and are entitled to answers
I will try to find some video footage of Indian blunder of 1948, 1965 war and 1968 skirmish with pakistan that eventually became 1971 war
 
Thanks so much Tavathia Sir for all the details.

I did not find any historical account of Alexander's soldiers settling in Kashmir. But yes, I did see accounts of Kushanas, huns settling in kashmir.
Historically, Kashmiris were hindus and buddhists mainly and forced conversions to islam took place in 12th century AD.

It is so amazing that followers of this religion claim shamelessly that theirs is a peaceful religion! I see nothing peaceful about their religion. Frankly, it is like a cancer. It starts to attack neighboring healthy communities until it takes then down too.

I also read about the plight of Kashmiri pandits who were driven out of their homes and are now spread all over India! What terror caused them to leave their ancestral land? Did most kashmiri muslims (descendants of kashmir hindus and buddhists) banded together and drove Kashmiri pandits out?

Pakistan military has ruled Pakistan for most of its existence. Their military is dominated by Punjabis. And I read that Pakistani military is the largest landholder in Pakistan. And that it also runs factories! It probably cannot do all this if it did not promote India as its enemy. After US leaves Afghanistan, taliban is coming back to power and behind it will be Pakistani military. May be the best hope for India is the division of Pakistan.
 
Here is the link from Indian Ministry of External Affairs...so far the best site on Kashmir Issue. It has all the facts and none of the emotion.

http://meaindia.nic.in/jk/kashmirissue.htm

As Aman Hooda said,
It is so amazing that followers of this religion claim shamelessly that theirs is a peaceful religion! I see nothing peaceful about their religion. Frankly, it is like a cancer. It starts to attack neighboring healthy communities until it takes then down too.
No argument here, it is the only cancer on this planet. Anywhere in world where islam is not dominant or a big minority or significant there is peace, tranquility and progress those places may have some other issues but there is no demand for entitlement.

Even though it is off topic and for that I do apologize but IMHO islam is the root cause of kashmir problem and my views on islam and its followers are.....

This is a religion that was started by carpet munching, sand sucking, S**t for brains, pedophile, women hater, cave dweller, desert nomad, control freak muppet who preached violence and hatred towards all

This is how one learned wise man from Londonistan would say it...
.......Islam without violence is like Omlette without eggs....

This learned and wise man's name is Pat Condell.......watch him here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3_qelW5qp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA&feature=related

This video shows how chief Justice of Pakistani Supreme Court Acts........You Make your own judgement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTo25M--EcM&feature=related
 
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Karan and others

This thread is " kashmir Kiska Hai" not Islam bashing.

I am not trying to be politically correct

I do not see how "Islam bashing" adds value to topic, or how you see the solution.

Humble request to all, please control your emotions.


Ravi Chaudhary
 
Dear Col Malik,
I think soldiers neither have time nor the need to spend half of their salaries in Kashmir. I think that is a misinformation. The army gets its rations free, and even though soldiers do buy extra condiments and smokes, they are all available in local Bania Canteen established on most of the HQ locations. Most Bania's don't buy their wholesale stuff from the local market all the time. Soldiers don't spend half of their income in a field station. Specially in the insurgency situation; one rarely gets time to visit the market to say the least. Not many soldiers buy those expensive Carpets; may be a handful of officers and few soldiers. These items are not bought daily; but may be one or two in the entire tenure. Even if we assume that they do buy some items from the local market, that does not account of 50% of their income. What the locals get benefit is from getting employment with the army establishments. Whether it is the duty of a porter; or any other job they get with the army units. In any case if we consider them part of our nation, then don't you think it is our duty to get them the jobs like any where else in India. What about a lot of people from all over the country spending a lot of money in Mumbai; where someone feels that they are all outsiders. We dont' condemn them just because they are Hindu by religion.

Again, as Mr. Ravi Chaudhary has said; let us discuss the Kashmir problem and not the Islam Bashing. Regarding corruption by IAS officers, with the latest corruption cases involving Generals, we really cant' single out the IAS officers. Most people who get chance to lay hands on the free money are doing so. I have seen in my own relations; my own neighborhood and in my own village.

The Kashmir is a political issue, it is a Geographical Issue; and it is the issue related to the security of our nation, and hence has to be dealt as such. Are we doing it right? Certainly not as of now. Can we do better? surely we can. These issues are not solved overnight. Ordering a captive audience (like we had during our service) is much simpler issue when getting things done. While dealing with the Civilians; the approach has to be more psychological, rather than dictetorial. Sometimes even wearing out the opponents may be the best alternative. We have to think from the perspective of Kashmiri people.

The example of Britishers getting things done with a Stick; has no corelation in a free nation like ours. Even we do it when it comes to maintaining the law and order situation. Many a time the local even listen to what we say; because we are carrying weapons and they do look forward to us for their safety. But that may not be their true response to our opinion.

Regarding further division of the Nation in the name of religion. We in armed forces had tried to maintain the integrity of our nation; and we need to do our best even in retirement. Actually that should be the last thing coming to our minds. Let us not get tired of the situation. The effort should be to fight the wrong system. We need to keep our hopes alive and work toward achieving our objectives.

We would be much enlightened with your rich experience on the subject.
 
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