Know your soldier

[rajpawariya]

Again same matter under different topic. Whenever Defence officer start a thread, it is for boosting his latent ego. Uncle Ji, how you forgotten sacrifice of Hav Gajendra Singh, while mentioning Maj Unni and Capt AK Singh. It is not your fault, it has got ingrained in psychy of Defence Officers to ignore PBORs and project himself and his clan. The site "Report my blog" is site dedicated to Defence officers only.This "Me First" attitude of officers is jeopardising interests of All Fauzi's. It hurts when some people think that those who are countering their view point, do not have knowledge about defence. It is ridiculous. Dear I am writting at various forums about OROP, Lt Col Pay, Sgt Pay and parity between pay of Sub Maj vis-a-vis Lt.( Sub and Sub Maj should have been placed in PB-3). I hope that we will fight for our just rights unitedly, leaving behind superiority complexes.

 

[raj2rif]

Nice Idea!

If we don't know about the abcd of Forces (military/paramilitary etc)....why don't you retiree ppls better teach us..

Dear Mr. Goayt,
I am replying your post because of the sentence above. I have a few suggestions if you may like to consider. Actually, even before reading your post (and I did not see you on Jatland Forum that you are writing some thing, I swear if you believe me) I was writing some thing of my experience about life of a soldier, how it develops, what the officer - men relationship develops, national security etc. But it is a wast subject and is going to take a lot of time for me to write and space on this website to put it across. So we probably have to wait for that. Interestingly, even though I retired from military about 10 years ago, I am still a full time worker, apart from the time I need for my obligations to help the Indian Community in General and Jat community in particular in the area that I live in.

I read your last line, not to generate a debate on your comments, for I respect that to the core of my heart. The problem is your first line and last line contradict each other, and hence the confusion in my mind about which one to follow. I have chosen the first one, for that is our obligation to our future generations. [/quote]

or better bring in some soldiers (jawans) to get the clear inside picture....we have had enough discussions with the officer lobby....let's hear from the "jawans" side...this time atleast..enough waste of time with same brainstorming sessions with you all.

rather than wasting other ppls time (sorry we have long time to retire, we're occupied..)over already discussed topics, and starting same new threads all the time...

This is a good idea to have views of our Jawans also. How about helping the community to bring some one from your side to help every one else understand a "Jawan's" view.

I appreciate you writing this post inspite of your busy schedule. My suggestion would be:
1. It is not mendatory for all of us to read all the posts. So you could be extremely selective, about reading and posting your replies depending upon your interests and availability of time.
2. If Brig's posts are repetitive and boring, you really don't have to read them. I don't think jatland.com membership agreement says that.
3. Your position to guide memebers about what they should write and what they should not.

a. If you are a moderator of this site, you should ban a particular post that is not in public interests.

b. If you are the owner of this site, then you should ban the membership of the person who is not following the norms of this site.

c. If you are one of the members like most of us, then it might be a good idea either to read a post, or comment on it and if it looks like repetitive, and useless then ignore it.

These are just a few suggestions from the teaching point of view since you had asked for it and not to generate a debate on this issue. [/quote]

to be contd.

 

[raj2rif]

Nice Idea .. 2

[/quote]Please get it out of your mind that we don't respect to our soldiers..:"as you might have seen in all previous thread's.."..the flooded responses of ppls.[/quote]

Actually, we the defense services officers, don't really expect or demand the rest of the nation to "Respect our Soldiers", for that is their choice. But if you read the second line what Brig has written about the oath an officer takes, it is our responsibility to respect our soldiers and repetitive posts that Brig is writing on soldiers is purely due to his commitment to that "Second Line" in that oath.

[/quote] And you don't need to find/dig this fact periodically....and reminding us of the sacrifices of the brave soldiers who lost their lives for protecting us....peoples have shown their true sympathy all the times, no need to recheck or cross verify..

"shahadat kabhi bhulayi nahi jaati uncle....aur use roj roj yaad karna bhi vaajib/mumkin nahi"[/quote]

Why do we celebrate the various days of history, be it Gandhi's Birth Day, Bhagat Singh's shahadat day or Birth Day etc? It is basically to remind the future generation about the sacrifices made by those great people, the fruits of which we are enjoying today, so that we understand the importance of it and do our best to preserve it.


[/quote]

[/quote]or is it related to defence officer Lt. Col Unnikrishnan's sacrifice only.....i would have deligted if you had spared some time to google out the list of all those brave officers and jawans (whether police, NSG or army....)...please no biasing/comparisons with defence forces this time.....all sacrifices needs to be dealt equally....[/quote]

I think what a person is writing and how much time he/she can devote to it should be left to that person alone. Being retired does not mean the person does not have any thing to do. At Brig's age, it takes a lot of effort to do what he is doing. I am sure many of us at that age would not be able to do even that much.

[/quote]or you could have started the discussion with..."it's shameful on the govt. part that so many casualities of police forces got happened just because of the ill equpped forces..with canes n WW-I type 0.303 rifle....and no protecting gear".....and discussed of how you can utilize your free retire time to make governmnt shake of these fact.[/quote]

In your next post you have mentioned that you wanted to write this post, but Brig saw you and did it before you could do it. What is bothering me is that you were about to do the same thing ( I hope I am understanding correctly) that you did not like Brig doing.

Regarding starting a discussion on the subject suggested, I personally any one of us including you could start that discussion. The subject is good and would generate valuable discussion.

[/quote]

We all can unite all the retire officers and soldiers..(i guess if we start there would be thousands & lakhs)....and form an umbrella body..(offcourse you all have had leadership qualities and you all had proven it in your times...so it won't be a much difficuilt tasks...and start an awakening process by combining civlians as well....and prepare stratergies to deal with the in efficient goverment and it's policies...

I never heard of any retire defence ppls forming such groups.....and rather i always see them cribbing and cribbing only & making mockery of the system and hoping for some miracle... cribbing right from the "rikshawalla, sabji walla, autowalla ....to the trains...roads..buses...governments...politicians etc..".........why don't you all stand united and use the same old fire in you for some constructive purpose..

or are you only meant to attend the cocktails parties of the regiments you had served...(i guess ...NOT)[/quote]

On this forum itself I have seen non defense personal cribbing about all these things too. Then why crib against defense people for their cribbing?

Regarding your comments above on Cocktail parties. Since your brother is an Army officer, you might have either attended one of such parties or must have seen him doing so, while you were visiting him ( I am assuming and I might be pretty wrong in it, but since you are mentioning it so convincingly, I take it that you do have a first hand knowledge of it). Well, that is not the only thing Defense Officers do. Most poeple don't have access to the remote places these people live. Some times in sub zero temperatures. And when time comes to going out on a patrol and laying an ambush, if a jawan is not feeling good, he might opt out or be replaced by another, but the officers being so less, has to do it even if he is not fully physically fit to do so. There is a lot more than those cocktail parties and many of them are attended by officers as an obligation to the organization rather than personal preferrence.

 

[raj2rif]

Nice Idea ... 3

[/quote]I never see any good leader from you ppls joining politics and working against the system to rectify it...why.???...though ppls who retire from short service commisions after rendering services in just 5~10 years, rather move it to look for a gloomy corporate world ?

Please invest your free retiree time for some fruitful and constructive discussions.....like we all would have deligted to if you discussed the SOLUTIONS in your points in post 1....rather than talking of PROBLEMS only...and what efforts you had done in YOUR TIMES.


I too could have given strong arguments with many of your points listed in your post one..

But would that be fruitful?? sorry, no more wasting time on discussing problems only...as the same has been discussed many a times....with no output.....

Why we always see the JL's retired defence lobby talking of problems only and their condemns..........

or is it always related to...
the same thread ..."why do i still serve the army"....and you feel stupid about it (offcourse NOT).....and disscussing the problems, which discourages young generations from joining it.

Dear JL Defence lobby.
You ppls are the BRAND EMBASSDORS of the Elite forces....mention the list of acheivemnts, and the glorios past attached with it....and not the problems and hardships....to defame it....and spoiling the BRAND IMAGE...and making a wrong impression as not to join it...."it pays less/it sucks"

Always remember the punchline...
"DO YOU HAVE IT IN YOU"....

I guess you still have it in you....so start something constructively with positive frame of mind & strong zeal

........................................................................................................
Now pls don't start any useless debates with me..

rather you can get it locked...that seems a good option...it really worked last time...[/quote]

I am not sure if I have been able to do justice to the points raised by you. If I have not been able to, then I extend my apologies for that. After all we all are human beings and have our limitations.

As the time goes by, I would try and do my best to help the people understand the complex subject of officer-men relationship in Defense Services as I have seen them.

Till then bye.

 

[devdahiya]

Again same matter under different topic. Whenever Defence officer start a thread, it is for boosting his latent ego. Uncle Ji, how you forgotten sacrifice of Hav Gajendra Singh, while mentioning Maj Unni and Capt AK Singh. It is not your fault, it has got ingrained in psychy of Defence Officers to ignore PBORs and project himself and his clan. The site "Report my blog" is site dedicated to Defence officers only.This "Me First" attitude of officers is jeopardising interests of All Fauzi's. It hurts when some people think that those who are countering their view point, do not have knowledge about defence. It is ridiculous. Dear I am writting at various forums about OROP, Lt Col Pay, Sgt Pay and parity between pay of Sub Maj vis-a-vis Lt.( Sub and Sub Maj should have been placed in PB-3). I hope that we will fight for our just rights unitedly, leaving behind superiority complexes.

What are you trying to say Mr Pawaria? Poor knowledge of things and poor take this.Why not place a recruit in HIG?Why not make Sonia Gandhi a clerk and a clerk Chair person of Congress?

 

[cooljat]

More than 100% agreed here, Army is Sheer Passion and above all Career Goals, you're seriously committing a serious mistake if you're joining army just for the career! If you have that in you, passion to live on the edge, luving the hard life and utmost true luv for the motherland then you should go for it otherwise there're many lucrative careers in front of you !

Joining defense forces is a passion not the career.. If somebody think to join defense forces as a career then he is definitely mistaken..

You're totally mistaken Raj, who said you that JCO and PBORs are being ignored ... I never felt so .. they're always treated equally for their valors .. don't Spihais earn gallantry medals like PVC, MVC for their sacrifice and heroic acts, they do and they are equally saluted ... The basic difference always will be there in their posts. Its everywhere in every single departments, organization. So its totally worthless to compare their posts cuz the fundamental difference always be there and it should be. But when it comes to awarding and valuing their supreme sacrifices they all are admired same and thats the best thing I like about Army !

Again same matter under different topic. Whenever Defence officer start a thread, it is for boosting his latent ego. Uncle Ji, how you forgotten sacrifice of Hav Gajendra Singh, while mentioning Maj Unni and Capt AK Singh. It is not your fault, it has got ingrained in psychy of Defence Officers to ignore PBORs and project himself and his clan. The site "Report my blog" is site dedicated to Defence officers only.This "Me First" attitude of officers is jeopardising interests of All Fauzi's. It hurts when some people think that those who are countering their view point, do not have knowledge about defence. It is ridiculous. Dear I am writting at various forums about OROP, Lt Col Pay, Sgt Pay and parity between pay of Sub Maj vis-a-vis Lt.( Sub and Sub Maj should have been placed in PB-3). I hope that we will fight for our just rights unitedly, leaving behind superiority complexes.

Cheers!

Rock on
Jit

 

[ssgoyat]

Again same matter under different topic. Whenever Defence officer start a thread, it is for boosting his latent ego. Uncle Ji, how you forgotten sacrifice of Hav Gajendra Singh, while mentioning Maj Unni and Capt AK Singh. It is not your fault, it has got ingrained in psychy of Defence Officers to ignore PBORs and project himself and his clan. The site "Report my blog" is site dedicated to Defence officers only.This "Me First" attitude of officers is jeopardising interests of All Fauzi's. It hurts when some people think that those who are countering their view point, do not have knowledge about defence. It is ridiculous. Dear I am writting at various forums about OROP, Lt Col Pay, Sgt Pay and parity between pay of Sub Maj vis-a-vis Lt.( Sub and Sub Maj should have been placed in PB-3). I hope that we will fight for our just rights unitedly, leaving behind superiority complexes.

eggzactly......

true word by word...

 

[devdahiya]

I never see any good leader from you ppls joining politics and working against the system to rectify it...why.???...though ppls who retire from short service commisions after rendering services in just 5~10 years, rather move it to look for a gloomy corporate world ?

Please invest your free retiree time for some fruitful and constructive discussions.....like we all would have deligted to if you discussed the SOLUTIONS in your points in post 1....rather than talking of PROBLEMS only...and what efforts you had done in YOUR TIMES.


I too could have given strong arguments with many of your points listed in your post one..

But would that be fruitful?? sorry, no more wasting time on discussing problems only...as the same has been discussed many a times....with no output.....

Why we always see the JL's retired defence lobby talking of problems only and their condemns..........

or is it always related to...
the same thread ..."why do i still serve the army"....and you feel stupid about it (offcourse NOT).....and disscussing the problems, which discourages young generations from joining it.

Dear JL Defence lobby.
You ppls are the BRAND EMBASSDORS of the Elite forces....mention the list of acheivemnts, and the glorios past attached with it....and not the problems and hardships....to defame it....and spoiling the BRAND IMAGE...and making a wrong impression as not to join it...."it pays less/it sucks"

Always remember the punchline...
"DO YOU HAVE IT IN YOU"....

I guess you still have it in you....so start something constructively with positive frame of mind & strong zeal

........................................................................................................
Now pls don't start any useless debates with me..

rather you can get it locked...that seems a good option...it really worked last time...[/quote]

I am not sure if I have been able to do justice to the points raised by you. If I have not been able to, then I extend my apologies for that. After all we all are human beings and have our limitations.

As the time goes by, I would try and do my best to help the people understand the complex subject of officer-men relationship in Defense Services as I have seen them.

Till then bye.[/QUOTE]




You are ReyeT.."LETTER BY LETTER"

 

[fateh]

Dear brother, ss goyat, I hope you got proper reply & must be happy. However, I would like to add only few points for your cool consideration please. Trust me I have nothing against you or any one & I mean no disrespect to you or any one else. Being from the same community, being members of same forum & being elder to you, I thougth to request you to read again the thread from the start & various replies to your points, bit peacefully & with positive mind. Also consider my poits in the same manner.
1. please be polite in your language & specially replying such a elderly person.
2. Respected Brigadier has started the thread for the benfit of those who dont/know less about defence personnel & their life there.
3. Since defence services have been second important profession jats, thus relevance & importance of the toppic cannot be denied.
4. Ifyour lordship, knows about the subject, fully satisfied with the knowledge you have & donot want to learn more or share your knowledge with other brothers, in that case please follow the guidelines & advise given by respected col tavathia sir.

Bhai Raj Pawariya, I also request you, not to base your openion on personal experience alone. The situation of officer jawan relationship is not as bad as you believe.
Regards Jai Jawan Jat Balwan

 

[cooljat]

Goyat, I just don't agree ! period.

eggzactly......

true word by word...

 

[raj2rif]

How about Educating Us too!!!

Again same matter under different topic. Whenever Defence officer start a thread, it is for boosting his latent ego. Uncle Ji, how you forgotten sacrifice of Hav Gajendra Singh, while mentioning Maj Unni and Capt AK Singh. It is not your fault, it has got ingrained in psychy of Defence Officers to ignore PBORs and project himself and his clan. The site "Report my blog" is site dedicated to Defence officers only.This "Me First" attitude of officers is jeopardising interests of All Fauzi's. It hurts when some people think that those who are countering their view point, do not have knowledge about defence. It is ridiculous. Dear I am writting at various forums about OROP, Lt Col Pay, Sgt Pay and parity between pay of Sub Maj vis-a-vis Lt.( Sub and Sub Maj should have been placed in PB-3). I hope that we will fight for our just rights unitedly, leaving behind superiority complexes.

Dear Mr. Pawaria,

It is nice to learn about your passionate approach to help the soldiers below officers rank of the Indian Armed Forces.

I would suggest, rather than having a dig at some one who is writing about officers only, it might be a good idea for your to educate all of us about your views on PBOR's and OROP concept. Since you have been writing a lot about it, you are the right person to educate the members of this site.

Your views will help us understand the subject matter in probably much better way. What troubles me about your posts is, that you just try to criticize any one and every one writing about services, without giving your views on PBOR the cause so close to your heart.

If I may request you to please channalize your views in following manner for all of us to better understand as to how you really want to do to help the Soldiers below officers rank, since as per you all the officers of the defense services have failed to do so.

1. Your back ground knowledge of the subject?
2. Guide lines the officer cader must follow to help our soldiers.
3. Anamolies that you feel are in existence that ignor a soldier below officer rank.

And any other aspect of this subject which most officers are unable to grasp either they are too self centered or are too incompetent to address.

I would say that will help all of us and may be some of us might join in your crusade to help the Soldiers below officer rank.

 

[vivekgathwala]

If we don't know about the abcd of Forces (military/paramilitary etc)....why don't you retiree ppls better teach us..

or better bring in some soldiers (jawans) to get the clear inside picture....we have had enough discussions with the officer lobby....let's hear from the "jawans" side...this time atleast..enough waste of time with same brainstorming sessions with you all.

rather than wasting other ppls time (sorry we have long time to retire, we're occupied..)over already discussed topics, and starting same new threads all the time...

Please get it out of your mind that we don't respect to our soldiers..:"as you might have seen in all previous thread's.."..the flooded responses of
ppls.

And you don't need to find/dig this fact periodically....and reminding us of the sacrifices of the brave soldiers who lost their lives for protecting us....peoples have shown their true sympathy all the times, no need to recheck or cross verify..

"shahadat kabhi bhulayi nahi jaati uncle....aur use roj roj yaad karna bhi vaajib/mumkin nahi"

or is it related to defence officer Lt. Col Unnikrishnan's sacrifice only.....i would have deligted if you had spared some time to google out the list of all those brave officers and jawans (whether police, NSG or army....)...please no biasing/comparisons with defence forces this time.....all sacrifices needs to be dealt equally....

or you could have started the discussion with..."it's shameful on the govt. part that so many casualities of police forces got happened just because of the ill equpped forces..with canes n WW-I type 0.303 rifle....and no protecting gear".....and discussed of how you can utilize your free retire time to make governmnt shake of these fact.

We all can unite all the retire officers and soldiers..(i guess if we start there would be thousands & lakhs)....and form an umbrella body..(offcourse you all have had leadership qualities and you all had proven it in your times...so it won't be a much difficuilt tasks...and start an awakening process by combining civlians as well....and prepare stratergies to deal with the in efficient goverment and it's policies...

I never heard of any retire defence ppls forming such groups.....and rather i always see them cribbing and cribbing only & making mockery of the system and hoping for some miracle... cribbing right from the "rikshawalla, sabji walla, autowalla ....to the trains...roads..buses...governments...politicians etc..".........why don't you all stand united and use the same old fire in you for some constructive purpose..

or are you only meant to attend the cocktails parties of the regiments you had served...(i guess ...NOT)

I never see any good leader from you ppls joining politics and working against the system to rectify it...why.???...though ppls who retire from short service commisions after rendering services in just 5~10 years, rather move it to look for a gloomy corporate world ?

Please invest your free retiree time for some fruitful and constructive discussions.....like we all would have deligted to if you discussed the SOLUTIONS in your points in post 1....rather than talking of PROBLEMS only...and what efforts you had done in YOUR TIMES.


I too could have given strong arguments with many of your points listed in your post one..

But would that be fruitful?? sorry, no more wasting time on discussing problems only...as the same has been discussed many a times....with no output.....

Why we always see the JL's retired defence lobby talking of problems only and their condemns..........

or is it always related to...
the same thread ..."why do i still serve the army"....and you feel stupid about it (offcourse NOT).....and disscussing the problems, which discourages young generations from joining it.

Dear JL Defence lobby.
You ppls are the BRAND EMBASSDORS of the Elite forces....mention the list of acheivemnts, and the glorios past attached with it....and not the problems and hardships....to defame it....and spoiling the BRAND IMAGE...and making a wrong impression as not to join it...."it pays less/it sucks"

Always remember the punchline...
"DO YOU HAVE IT IN YOU"....

I guess you still have it in you....so start something constructively with positive frame of mind & strong zeal

........................................................................................................
Now pls don't start any useless debates with me..

rather you can get it locked...that seems a good option...it really worked last time...

goyat ebke tane kite bhi jyada samjhdari ki baat likhi na to pichli be phone kiya tha ebke pethan hi aaaounga samjha

ghana over smart ar ghana gyani mat bana kar


ar faltu bat thread main likh ki koi bhi jaroorat nahi s


ya tu dhang te samajh le




Regards

Vivek Gathwala

 

[raj2rif]

That is not Correct

Dear Mr. Vivek,

I don't think your post is very useful for the discussion. We all have right to our opinion and we should not make any personal attack on any one.

We are in a democratic society. We all must express ourselves freely without being vulgure, disrespectful to others and must use the parliamentry language (I am talking about the literary meaning of parliamentary language and not that our leaders might be using some time in real life).

The effort should be to make a quality point that helps in understanding the subject and progressing the discussion in the right direction.

I hope you would oblige in future.

 

[bls31]

The Army has Commissioned officers, Junior Commissioned Officers (JCOs in the Army) and the non commissioned officers. After that comes Jawan, in Navy sailor and in Air Force Airman.

If one dispenses with officers only Jawns will be left to plan, lead and execute the operations and at higher level advise the Government on threat assessment to the nation. The equation at MOD would then be
Jawan- Defence Secretary.

Posted in lighter vain only
bls13

 

[sachinb]

arre o Pawaria,,,,,what angreji you are saying by writing "Me First Attitude of Army Officers",,,,,,do you have any idea about when you say so,,,,,,when people talk your language i call them doing Pakistani Propaganda,,,,,,,,

Gentleman(??), try to see the casualty of all the wars/operations faught by Indian Army,,,,and then try to find out what is the Officers:Jawans death ratio.,,,,,pher tanne bera paatega Me First kyukar kahya karre,,,,

Colonel & Brigadier Sahab please tell this gentleman who is doing the Pakistani Propaganda about the ratio of Officers & Jawans in an Infantry battallion and the Death Ratio between Officers & Jawans during wars and LICO.

Brigadier sahab, just provide the data which i requested you and please ask the moderators to close this thread, I dont find JL to be a right plateform to discuss this issue. These people wants to harm and creat an atmosphere in the Indian Army which till now our worthy politicians have not been able to do. These people want to sow the seed of hatred among Officers & Jawans,,,,,,,Pakistani paid professionals ,,,

 

[bls31]

I agree with you and I am requesting the moderator to close this link . I will also think twice in future to start a thread on related subjects.

BRIG Lakshman Singh

 

[ranjitjat]

Read nk. Degander kumar mc

Dear All
It will help you. please read this thread Brave jats in -Jat history section.
Life of NK. Digender Kumar MAhaveer Chakar Kargil war is a living example.
Now he is very much active in Rajasthan politics. He was a independent candidate from Nim Ka Thana- Sikar District in this year Rajasthan MLA election.
No party given him ticket. His life story written in Hindi by Mr Rinwa give inside life of a soldier in Indian Army. He is from 2ND Raj RIF the BN of Brig Hoshiar Singh, Col. Virender Tevatia and my Mama Ji. This book have words of praise for our Col Tevatia Sahib.
Why not all officers and soldiers came under some one Association .
Get united of all jat officers and soldiers is a noble Idea.
We have highlighted the problems for so long.
Now Do some constructive work for our community.
To know more about Indian Army, Jat officers and soldiers
read my book- France to Kargil. History of Indian Army.

Read NK Nagender Kumar MC here
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26144

 

[samarkadian]

I agree with you and I am requesting the moderator to close this link . I will also think twice in future to start a thread on related subjects.

BRIG Lakshman Singh

People speaking against Defence and making it all monetary should understand that NO Human Organisation is untouched with corruption, be it religious , political, corporate or social.It sounds like dead Marxist and feminist shouts at every thread in the form of Soldier Vs Officers.Above all the best example is evident in nature.In nature there is no equvivalency. It would be eutopic to consider a 1oth passed person to make General and vice versa.The honour associated with dieing at border is considered greatest in human history and person accredited with salavation.When someone points fingers at other, four fingers are towards themselves indicating flaws in their own thinking.Its inside out that may be helpful otherwse argument can't win by being rude and sarcastic.

Thread is being closed at author's insistence.