pawankharb
New member
Pawan Kharb(Ugalan)
Hi ! Pawan Kharb Here From village Ugalan (Hisar) and working as an travel cordinato
Hi ! Pawan Kharb Here From village Ugalan (Hisar) and working as an travel cordinato
Maharana Pratap - A Jat ??????????
- Thread starter kharub
- Start date
pawankharb
New member
Ugalan & Dharam Kheri is totaly kharb Populated
and mohla Badchpar have panuu also.
i ermember the time when flud in 1995 the others village of kharb's helps alot of these village with foods and others means
and mohla Badchpar have panuu also.
i ermember the time when flud in 1995 the others village of kharb's helps alot of these village with foods and others means
sumitsehrawat
New member
Mera gyaan kam hai thoda kuch bata do mereko ...
yo Bill Gates bhi JAT hai ke??? er va Lundun ki Maharani Elijabeth si bhi JAT sei ke??? vo khiladi sa Rafel Nadal bhi JAT sei ke??? Ex President Abdul Kalam bhi JAT sei ke???
JAT JAT JAT .....meri taat pe fod do ek MAAT. har kisse ne JAT bana do...
,
Sumit
P.S.: Not to offend anyone.
yo Bill Gates bhi JAT hai ke??? er va Lundun ki Maharani Elijabeth si bhi JAT sei ke??? vo khiladi sa Rafel Nadal bhi JAT sei ke??? Ex President Abdul Kalam bhi JAT sei ke???
JAT JAT JAT .....meri taat pe fod do ek MAAT. har kisse ne JAT bana do...
,Sumit
P.S.: Not to offend anyone.
ravinderdahiya
New member
Mera gyaan kam hai thoda kuch bata do mereko ...
yo Bill Gates bhi JAT hai ke??? er va Lundun ki Maharani Elijabeth si bhi JAT sei ke??? vo khiladi sa Rafel Nadal bhi JAT sei ke??? Ex President Abdul Kalam bhi JAT sei ke???
JAT JAT JAT .....meri taat pe fod do ek MAAT. har kisse ne JAT bana do...
Sumit
P.S.: Not to offend anyone.
Bhai Sumit , Mannay nyu laggay sai akk Yoo conversion ka rolla maharay bhi shuru ho liya sai, arr khas baat ya sai akk jo bhi mada sa famous ho jaa(chahe marr e kyu na liya hoo) usnay jabardasti Jat bana dyo.
Yaa ek dum badiya policy hai, nyu kartay-2 ek din world ke saaray aandi maanas JAT ho jyangay arr kaum ki tarakki ho jya gi
ravichaudhary
New member
Gentlemen
It is not a matter of trying to show any great historical personality as a Jat.
At the same time, we should recognize that our history has been ascribed to other groups, and our history has in fact been wiped out.Our identity, downgraded, in the text books , used to teach us and our children.
If either of you gentlemen, has learned something positive, about the Jats in your school History Textbooks, please share it with us.
If you take a moment to reflect upon this, you will see what we mean.
If your conclusion, is that there in nothing positive taught about the Jats, you will not be far off!
We are, slowly and steadily addressing this issue.
As part of the process, we are re seeking and using old, original, information.
There is much distortion, but on one:
The rajput as a term did not take hold until the 14th/15th/16th century.
Until then many families, clans were still calling themselves Jat an dlater started to call themselves rajput.
The same applies to the Gujars,Ahirs. Bhils, Gonds, meenas. . Many families started to call themselves rajput.
Exploring how this happened is one of the purposes of a historian.
Sites like this allow , the ordinary person, to get an insight into a specialist subject.
Let us explore our history, and please, have some patience.
Ravi Chaudhary
It is not a matter of trying to show any great historical personality as a Jat.
At the same time, we should recognize that our history has been ascribed to other groups, and our history has in fact been wiped out.Our identity, downgraded, in the text books , used to teach us and our children.
If either of you gentlemen, has learned something positive, about the Jats in your school History Textbooks, please share it with us.
If you take a moment to reflect upon this, you will see what we mean.
If your conclusion, is that there in nothing positive taught about the Jats, you will not be far off!
We are, slowly and steadily addressing this issue.
As part of the process, we are re seeking and using old, original, information.
There is much distortion, but on one:
The rajput as a term did not take hold until the 14th/15th/16th century.
Until then many families, clans were still calling themselves Jat an dlater started to call themselves rajput.
The same applies to the Gujars,Ahirs. Bhils, Gonds, meenas. . Many families started to call themselves rajput.
Exploring how this happened is one of the purposes of a historian.
Sites like this allow , the ordinary person, to get an insight into a specialist subject.
Let us explore our history, and please, have some patience.
Ravi Chaudhary
Last edited:
Welcome Pawan on Jatland. Is Dharam Kheri village also in Hisar? Can you go to Kharb page on Jatland Wiki here - http://www.jatland.com/home/Kharb and expand this article on Kharb?
Regards,
Regards,
sumitsehrawat
New member
Evidence(s) please...
Ravi bhaisahab,
I never meant to hurt anyone's sentiments here. Just that if you challenge any 'going-on-since-ages' facts then there must be evidences to support your argument. You provide me a genuine source stating that Rana Pratap was a JAT and I then have every reason either to believe you or to raise questions on the associated historian's point of view. We, you and me and others, need to convince people that what we say is true, unless we are just trying to outwit one another at Humor forum.
Reading the above posts I actually went mad. The way conclusions are drawn ....my goodness!!...
With that theory I too can say ...
Rafael Nadal ~ once his ancestors were Nadral n as they evolved it became Nadal.
Abdul Kalam ~ Kalaan
Bill Gates ~ Gaite
Chris Gardner ~ Gardaana
....etc etc .... were all JATs. Adam(~Atam or Ada) and Eve (add her in JAT wiki, if cannot relate) ban gye saare JAT aaap-am-aap. Like that all the inhabitants of Earth are JATs. Anyways...
Please provide genuine sources for ignorants like me to believe. That is my only request from Maharana Pratap...oops[
]!...from us all. This, again, is no attempt to onslaught. I am just requesting evidences....genuine evidences.
"We are, slowly and steadily addressing this issue. As part of the process, we are re seeking and using old, original, information."
Now this is what and how it should be like. Kudos to you guys[]! Wish u all the luck. I'd be very happy if you succeed in 'making' Maharana Pratap a JAT....after-all one more reason we'd have to 'feel' proud of.[]!
I am waiting...
Thanks,
Sumit
------------
Ravi bhaisahab,
I never meant to hurt anyone's sentiments here. Just that if you challenge any 'going-on-since-ages' facts then there must be evidences to support your argument. You provide me a genuine source stating that Rana Pratap was a JAT and I then have every reason either to believe you or to raise questions on the associated historian's point of view. We, you and me and others, need to convince people that what we say is true, unless we are just trying to outwit one another at Humor forum.
Reading the above posts I actually went mad. The way conclusions are drawn ....my goodness!!...
With that theory I too can say ... Rafael Nadal ~ once his ancestors were Nadral n as they evolved it became Nadal.
Abdul Kalam ~ Kalaan
Bill Gates ~ Gaite
Chris Gardner ~ Gardaana
....etc etc .... were all JATs. Adam(~Atam or Ada) and Eve (add her in JAT wiki, if cannot relate) ban gye saare JAT aaap-am-aap. Like that all the inhabitants of Earth are JATs. Anyways...
Please provide genuine sources for ignorants like me to believe. That is my only request from Maharana Pratap...oops[
]!...from us all. This, again, is no attempt to onslaught. I am just requesting evidences....genuine evidences. "We are, slowly and steadily addressing this issue. As part of the process, we are re seeking and using old, original, information."
Now this is what and how it should be like. Kudos to you guys[
]! Wish u all the luck. I'd be very happy if you succeed in 'making' Maharana Pratap a JAT....after-all one more reason we'd have to 'feel' proud of.[]! I am waiting...
Thanks,
Sumit
anilsangwan
Active member
Absolutely correct and clear view... I second Sumit Jat Sehrawat ....... please share evidences...
Regards,
Anil
Regards,
Anil
------------
Ravi bhaisahab,
I never meant to hurt anyone's sentiments here. Just that if you challenge any 'going-on-since-ages' facts then there must be evidences to support your argument. You provide me a genuine source stating that Rana Pratap was a JAT and I then have every reason either to believe you or to raise questions on the associated historian's point of view. We, you and me and others, need to convince people that what we say is true, unless we are just trying to outwit one another at Humor forum.
Reading the above posts I actually went mad. The way conclusions are drawn ....my goodness!!...
Rafael Nadal ~ once his ancestors were Nadral n as they evolved it became Nadal.
Abdul Kalam ~ Kalaan
Bill Gates ~ Gaite
Chris Gardner ~ Gardaana
....etc etc .... were all JATs. Adam(~Atam or Ada) and Eve (add her in JAT wiki, if cannot relate) ban gye saare JAT aaap-am-aap. Like that all the inhabitants of Earth are JATs. Anyways...
Please provide genuine sources for ignorants like me to believe. That is my only request from Maharana Pratap...oops[
"We are, slowly and steadily addressing this issue. As part of the process, we are re seeking and using old, original, information."
Now this is what and how it should be like. Kudos to you guys[
I am waiting...
Thanks,
Sumit
ravichaudhary
New member
I am not offended in the least bit.
Quite to the contrary, it gives me great pleasure, tosee people, like you and other raising queries, and bringing critical thinking, to what is out there.
I would like to see more of that.
That in its natural evolution will lead to more and more people taking interest in our history.
Some will develop into serious Historians, and we need more of those.
To me personally it is not an issue, whether Maharana Pratap is or was a Jat or not.
At the same time, it does no harm to explore the topic.
We all know the ‘Rajputs’ as a community are a late arrival, some 14th century to 16th century, notwithstanding recent claims to great and rich antiquity.
Now Rana Pratap's family were calling themselves Rajputs in the 16th century. He lived 1540 to 1597.
The Rajput identity had taken hold by this time; it is no coincidence that the rise of the Rajput identity arose at the same time as the Muslim invasions and occupancy of the Indian subcontinent.
It is no coincidence that their rise to power was due to and in alliance with the Muslim invaders, to whom they provided troops.
That said, our question really is what the family of Rana Pratap was before this new Rajput identity took hold.
It is here, that historians like the late Capt. Dilip Singh Ahlawat, Thakur Desraj, Joon, have made a significant contribution.
Dilipji in his book’ Jat Viron ka Ithihas’ writes : (for a translation )see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/143
He confirms that this entire Rajasthan area was occupied by other communities, jats, Gujars, etc.
Marwar was and still is predominantly Jat.
He traces the family of the Guhils, who later came to called Gehlots, Gehlauts, Gehlawat, from the Jat ‘Bals’ that ruled the state of Ballabhi/Vallabhi in Sindh, at the time of Skanda gupta 300-400 CE,
Bals are Jats fom Punjab, and their leader who set up Vallabhi, was a General of Skanda gupta.
A branch of the Guhils, lived in the village of ‘Sisodah” from which they came to be called’- Sisodia’, and later took the appendage; Rana’.
Now, this is Rana Pratap’s family- first BAL, then Guhils, then Sisodia/Rana.
Undoubted, by the time of Akbar, they took the identity of Rajputs, but there is no evidence that this was the case earlier. In fact in Humayun’s memoirs, the rulers of Mewar were called Jats, in his time and Humayun, as we know, was father of Akbar, who fought with Rana Pratap.
That is brief summary. For more detail look up the message on the yahoo Jat history board, referred to above.
Now we have a better idea of the family , was, we can surmise that they in time came to call themselves Rajput.
We can now individually decide for ourselves whether he was a Jat or not!
Gehlots are still Jats!
Ravi Chaudhary
Quite to the contrary, it gives me great pleasure, tosee people, like you and other raising queries, and bringing critical thinking, to what is out there.
I would like to see more of that.
That in its natural evolution will lead to more and more people taking interest in our history.
Some will develop into serious Historians, and we need more of those.
To me personally it is not an issue, whether Maharana Pratap is or was a Jat or not.
At the same time, it does no harm to explore the topic.
We all know the ‘Rajputs’ as a community are a late arrival, some 14th century to 16th century, notwithstanding recent claims to great and rich antiquity.
Now Rana Pratap's family were calling themselves Rajputs in the 16th century. He lived 1540 to 1597.
The Rajput identity had taken hold by this time; it is no coincidence that the rise of the Rajput identity arose at the same time as the Muslim invasions and occupancy of the Indian subcontinent.
It is no coincidence that their rise to power was due to and in alliance with the Muslim invaders, to whom they provided troops.
That said, our question really is what the family of Rana Pratap was before this new Rajput identity took hold.
It is here, that historians like the late Capt. Dilip Singh Ahlawat, Thakur Desraj, Joon, have made a significant contribution.
Dilipji in his book’ Jat Viron ka Ithihas’ writes : (for a translation )see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/143
He confirms that this entire Rajasthan area was occupied by other communities, jats, Gujars, etc.
Marwar was and still is predominantly Jat.
He traces the family of the Guhils, who later came to called Gehlots, Gehlauts, Gehlawat, from the Jat ‘Bals’ that ruled the state of Ballabhi/Vallabhi in Sindh, at the time of Skanda gupta 300-400 CE,
Bals are Jats fom Punjab, and their leader who set up Vallabhi, was a General of Skanda gupta.
A branch of the Guhils, lived in the village of ‘Sisodah” from which they came to be called’- Sisodia’, and later took the appendage; Rana’.
Now, this is Rana Pratap’s family- first BAL, then Guhils, then Sisodia/Rana.
Undoubted, by the time of Akbar, they took the identity of Rajputs, but there is no evidence that this was the case earlier. In fact in Humayun’s memoirs, the rulers of Mewar were called Jats, in his time and Humayun, as we know, was father of Akbar, who fought with Rana Pratap.
That is brief summary. For more detail look up the message on the yahoo Jat history board, referred to above.
Now we have a better idea of the family , was, we can surmise that they in time came to call themselves Rajput.
We can now individually decide for ourselves whether he was a Jat or not!
Gehlots are still Jats!
Ravi Chaudhary
Last edited:
S
snandal1
Guest
re ke rolla macha rakhya se yo rana pratap ka. yo na te kiti te rana tha aur na hi pratap. aa ka baap mughlan ka pithoo, va udai singh. aur amar singh younn bole the ukk mhara baap kib taain hum ghas ki roti khilaye ga
do ghante me ya haldi ghati ka yudh over ho liya tha. ya rana pratap jat bhi agar tha to koi badi top koni tha.
aa ki army 3000 ki sena. usme 1500 muslim led by hassan khan mewati. baki bache kuche wa Jat. Aaj bhi chittore me ek lakh sattar hazar Jat hain.
aa ka bhai shakti is ke gail koni. aa phaltu ka yo chetak, jisse jattyan nne kadi koi ghode koni dekhye.
thumm mere bhai eeb nandal Jat pe thoda concentrate karyo ji. Aa nne dekh ke Allexander back to the pavillion ho liya.
aur mme ye Nandal Jat gawahi dyunn sunn ukk Allexander Mor tte koni darr kke bhajya ya Nand/Nandal krishna wale vansh ka kamal thya.
do ghante me ya haldi ghati ka yudh over ho liya tha. ya rana pratap jat bhi agar tha to koi badi top koni tha.
aa ki army 3000 ki sena. usme 1500 muslim led by hassan khan mewati. baki bache kuche wa Jat. Aaj bhi chittore me ek lakh sattar hazar Jat hain.
aa ka bhai shakti is ke gail koni. aa phaltu ka yo chetak, jisse jattyan nne kadi koi ghode koni dekhye.
thumm mere bhai eeb nandal Jat pe thoda concentrate karyo ji. Aa nne dekh ke Allexander back to the pavillion ho liya.
aur mme ye Nandal Jat gawahi dyunn sunn ukk Allexander Mor tte koni darr kke bhajya ya Nand/Nandal krishna wale vansh ka kamal thya.
S
snandal1
Guest
aa pahli bar samnder nne jhanke thya allexander, sindh me quasim ki tarh, jab pachhe tte usne awaz di bhai in Jatyan ke naati gotti bahut ssen, bhai tu ulta ho llye, aage Nand/Nandal vansh baithya sse magadh me, teri issi ki taisi pail de gya
Last edited by a moderator:
S
snandal1
Guest
tte bhai va vishwa vijeta ulta ho liya, ek obedient student ki ross
sumitsehrawat
New member
Ravi bhaisahab,
I really liked your attitude here. You took me exactly the way I wanted you to. Thanks!!
~Sumit
suniljakhar
New member
Theek kara tanne, bhadak kar ke ne chhhod dee, eb shi explore hoga yo thread...Good goin imagination n if proved- you being genious, otherwise also you r
Mera gyaan kam hai thoda kuch bata do mereko ...
yo Bill Gates bhi JAT hai ke??? er va Lundun ki Maharani Elijabeth si bhi JAT sei ke??? vo khiladi sa Rafel Nadal bhi JAT sei ke??? Ex President Abdul Kalam bhi JAT sei ke???
JAT JAT JAT .....meri taat pe fod do ek MAAT. har kisse ne JAT bana do...
Sumit
P.S.: Not to offend anyone.
ravichaudhary
New member
Sumit,
thank you
Let us hope more and more people join in searching for our history
Ravi Chaudhary
thank you
Let us hope more and more people join in searching for our history
Ravi Chaudhary
ravichaudhary
New member
Rana Pratap
Let us try and keep some perspective, before we criticize Rana Pratap too much
We may keep in mind:-
1) He led a valiant resistance to the Muslim Mughals from Delhi.
2) He was betrayed by the other Rajput houses, who sought short term favours and jagirs from the Invaders.
The other rajputs supported the Muslim Mughals in their war against the rest of the Indians.
If the other rajputs has supported Rana Pratap, and fought Akbars' troops, Akbar would been defeated.
The muslim troops were not enough. They could NOT have succeeded without the rajput forces.
It could also be kept in mind, the the Mewar (Udaipur) house, was the only one that did not give its daughters to the Muslim mughals in Delhi and resisted them to the end.
In 1947 again it was the only house, that refused the join the conspiracy of the Rajput princely states of Rajastan to join Pakistan and not India.
All in all, Rana Pratap's house deserves praise.
Ravi Chaudhary
Let us try and keep some perspective, before we criticize Rana Pratap too much
We may keep in mind:-
1) He led a valiant resistance to the Muslim Mughals from Delhi.
2) He was betrayed by the other Rajput houses, who sought short term favours and jagirs from the Invaders.
The other rajputs supported the Muslim Mughals in their war against the rest of the Indians.
If the other rajputs has supported Rana Pratap, and fought Akbars' troops, Akbar would been defeated.
The muslim troops were not enough. They could NOT have succeeded without the rajput forces.
It could also be kept in mind, the the Mewar (Udaipur) house, was the only one that did not give its daughters to the Muslim mughals in Delhi and resisted them to the end.
In 1947 again it was the only house, that refused the join the conspiracy of the Rajput princely states of Rajastan to join Pakistan and not India.
All in all, Rana Pratap's house deserves praise.
Ravi Chaudhary
ravichaudhary
New member
house of Mewar
An extract
ositive role of Udaipur house
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/2979
Re: Role Jats in NW India- part 4 Rajputs opt for Pakistan
RAJPUT PRINCES OF RAJPUTANA PLAN TO OPT FOR PAKISTAN
The Maharaja of Jodhpur had by early 1947 made up his mind to accede
to Pakistan and by eliminating the Jat troops from his Army he was
emboldened in his resolve. However, his advisers counseled that it was
advisable to join Pakistan as a bloc rather than alone to ensure the
safety and continuity of his family rule. The Maharaja of Jodhpur
thereupon held consultations with his Kinsmen and relations among the
Rajput rulers of Bikaner, Jaipur, Jaisalmer, Kota, Bundi and others
and they agreed to join him. They however were of the opinion that if
the Maharana of Udaipur (Mewar) could be prevailed upon to join their
ranks then almost all the Rajputana States except the Jat Princely
States of Bharatpur and Dholpur could join Pakistan enbloc and
constitute a major unit in that country to ensure their safety and
continuity. The Rajput Princes led by the Maharaja of Jodhpur went in
a delegation to Maharana Bhupal Singh of Udaipur to request him to
join them in acceding to Pakistan.
“”When Maharana Bhupal Singh of Udaipur received the invitation to enter
this arrangement with the Maharaja of Jodhpur and other Princes, this
descendant of Rana Pratap replied "My choice was made by my ancestors.
If they had faltered, they would have left us a kingdom as large as
Hyderabad. They did not, neither shall I. I am with India ".
The Maharana further taunted the Rajput Princes that since their
families have had in the past matrimonial alliances with the Mughals
and some of them had held high offices in the Mughal Army and
administration they obviously would like to maintain close relations
with Pakistan.
Stung by this caustic remark the Princes made their way to Delhi and
signed the Instrument of Accession to India”’
An extract
ositive role of Udaipur househttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/2979
Re: Role Jats in NW India- part 4 Rajputs opt for Pakistan
RAJPUT PRINCES OF RAJPUTANA PLAN TO OPT FOR PAKISTAN
The Maharaja of Jodhpur had by early 1947 made up his mind to accede
to Pakistan and by eliminating the Jat troops from his Army he was
emboldened in his resolve. However, his advisers counseled that it was
advisable to join Pakistan as a bloc rather than alone to ensure the
safety and continuity of his family rule. The Maharaja of Jodhpur
thereupon held consultations with his Kinsmen and relations among the
Rajput rulers of Bikaner, Jaipur, Jaisalmer, Kota, Bundi and others
and they agreed to join him. They however were of the opinion that if
the Maharana of Udaipur (Mewar) could be prevailed upon to join their
ranks then almost all the Rajputana States except the Jat Princely
States of Bharatpur and Dholpur could join Pakistan enbloc and
constitute a major unit in that country to ensure their safety and
continuity. The Rajput Princes led by the Maharaja of Jodhpur went in
a delegation to Maharana Bhupal Singh of Udaipur to request him to
join them in acceding to Pakistan.
“”When Maharana Bhupal Singh of Udaipur received the invitation to enter
this arrangement with the Maharaja of Jodhpur and other Princes, this
descendant of Rana Pratap replied "My choice was made by my ancestors.
If they had faltered, they would have left us a kingdom as large as
Hyderabad. They did not, neither shall I. I am with India ".
The Maharana further taunted the Rajput Princes that since their
families have had in the past matrimonial alliances with the Mughals
and some of them had held high offices in the Mughal Army and
administration they obviously would like to maintain close relations
with Pakistan.
Stung by this caustic remark the Princes made their way to Delhi and
signed the Instrument of Accession to India”’
K
kanishka
Guest
Oh! truly good Sir, great knowledge, you have, my best wishes and regards to you.
K
kanishka
Guest
Ravi Sir,
Is there any short term course in history that any Jat youth can take up and know at least what they really are. Say about 15-50 pages. No body can take such long sermons like Budha that you give. Jat youth needs a direction, where in this competitive world, in such a cut-throat competition he really can not afford to spend much time on Jat history research.
Is there any short term course in history that any Jat youth can take up and know at least what they really are. Say about 15-50 pages. No body can take such long sermons like Budha that you give. Jat youth needs a direction, where in this competitive world, in such a cut-throat competition he really can not afford to spend much time on Jat history research.
ravichaudhary
New member
Dear Kaniska,
I am aware of the problem.
Our problem so far has been, to reach a solid foundation for our history, without going into exaggerations on one side, and on the other trying to remove the distortions that exist in what is taught to us in our school text books- the latter so much so, that we ourselves have so much doubt, that our past could have been so rich.
To reach that we have had to go into depth on every issue. When I write some of that spills over.
We have enough material now to put a simple outline of our history together, which can be informative and simple.
We need something easy digest.
Until we have that,
Could I suggest that readers new to the subject, start with R S Joon's book, which is online in the files section on the Yahoo Jat history site.
It is quite readable, and quite lucid.
After, that, one can go into as much detail, as we can.
Ravi Chaudhary
I am aware of the problem.
Our problem so far has been, to reach a solid foundation for our history, without going into exaggerations on one side, and on the other trying to remove the distortions that exist in what is taught to us in our school text books- the latter so much so, that we ourselves have so much doubt, that our past could have been so rich.
To reach that we have had to go into depth on every issue. When I write some of that spills over.
We have enough material now to put a simple outline of our history together, which can be informative and simple.
We need something easy digest.
Until we have that,
Could I suggest that readers new to the subject, start with R S Joon's book, which is online in the files section on the Yahoo Jat history site.
It is quite readable, and quite lucid.
After, that, one can go into as much detail, as we can.
Ravi Chaudhary