Mahatma Gandhi

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jitenderhooda

New member
Dear all ,

Mahatma Gandhi is rastrapita,and we are reading from the begining about his fight for the freedom and several movements initiated by him .
and

Dedi hume ajadi bina khadag bina dhaal ......

But when we listen views of people about him i found majority of people are against his doings .

So , what is your opinion about Mahatma Gandhi ?

Some said that if he will be willing and have joined hands with revolutionary party of bagat singh and other activists then india would have been freed long back in 20's .

Later he was responsible for which Vallabh bhai patel was not elected as First primeMinister and if he would be there, today we wouldnot have Kashmir Problem and these refugees those are spread all over the country like amar bail.


share your wise comments on this ...

Jiten
 
There was only one Mohan Das Karam Chand Gandhi and perhaps we will not see another one like him in our life time. There are many interpretations of historical events and possiblities some intelligent guesses and some pure speculations.

The reason why World is in such a mess is because there are not enough people who believe in non-violence and have strength to follow in his foot steps. Love is stronger than hate and he showed the World how powerful it can be. Violence is natural animal instinct but non violence requires a lot of self discipline.
 
I agree with Sheorayanji bhaishab. There was only one person who followed the non violence strategy and spreader at the time. It is also a personal point of view people can judge him as they wish. I believe he was a great soul. Jai Ghandhiji ki.
 
Dear All,

Jiten has done a lot of good (After hating girls!!!!) by starting a topic on Gandhiji. Jiten the pun is very much intended!!

I totally agree with Sheorayan Ji. In 1000 years from now, Gandhiji will be worshipped like Buddha. Whatever may have been his failings, wrongly perceived by us, during the 'Partition Time', he remains the tallest Indian. We can't even fathom his greatness because he remains the most misunderstood man. Also it requires immense courage to follow him. Total self denial and sacrifice is not easy to preech, leave alone practice.

While the sacrifices of Subhash Chandra Bose and Bhagat Singh for the freedom of our motherland cannot be denied, it was Gandhi who gave a direction to polity of the day.

However, I cannot stop myself from quoting an old man from my village. He said " Jo yu Nehru bachpan mein malariye ya typhide te mar jata na, to iss desh ka bhala ho jata".

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)
JAT BALWAN, JAI BHAGWAN
 
On his 134th birthday, I am very happy and excited to give my views about the person whom I think is the biggest inspiration and builder of the identity behind being an Indian.
There is no doubt that he would be worshiped in the coming times, and I am sure that I am not the only one who regard him as a superhuman.There is no aspect in our lives which he doesnt inspire.
He brought confidence not just amongst us Indians but amongst all the countries and people who had lost it. It would be wrong to take him as just a freedom fighter, or political leader, he reminded us of our religious and cultural identities. I myself realised the blessing of being a hindu because of him. I am sure we hindus had forgotten Ahimsa, Karmayoga, and many more virtues of our religion but he not only reminded us of that but showed the whole world the power that lies in them.
And as they say little knowledge is dangerous, well that is the reason why such a soul gets criticised, I do get scared when I see people criticising him especially out of India. It is surely a matter of shame and I am requesting all of my Jat brothers and sisters to never give your crtical views about him to non-indians as it is better to keep them within ourselves or else it is all of us who become the laughing stock by criticising someone who is a part of our own identity of being Indian, or being hindu or being colored.
 
and as far as Mr Nehru is concerned well nobody could have ever said it better then the wise old man.
 
Amit Sansanwal (Oct 02, 2003 06:16 a.m.):
and as far as Mr Nehru is concerned well nobody could have ever said it better then the wise old man.
Click to expand...

...And whom do you think got him (the western Playboy)there???...where he created the havoc our Country still bears the burnt to this day????????????????????????????????????
 
As per my views

As an induvidual person Gandhi(Ji) was a good person and it is very hard to follow him. He was a good person he did lots of good things, he saved lots of lives(In India).

But at the same time he was a good black mailer. because of this as well many people lost their lives. He knew very well how to emothionally black mail his followers. That's why he was on fast all the time.

Not many well known people follow his principles(Most of the world just talk about it) Apart from Nelson Mandela and Martin Luthar King.

He was not good for his family and his well wisher, but definatly he was good for their enemies.
 
Dear friends,

Volumes have been written on Gandhi ji and as times goes on, volumes will be written. There is no doubt, Gandhi ji belongs to the likes of Lord Budha , Jesus and Lord Rama. He was a rare soul which visit Earth only once in 1000s of years. He was never in favour of division of India and even offered Prime Ministership to Jinah to save the nation. Unfortunately the politician in Nehru opposed this move and Indian subcontinent is where we are today.

Nehru was a politician and not a social reformer. He had all the good and bad qualities like most politicians. Its hard to compare leaders in retrospective. Patel had his qualities and Nehru his own. Two were more of complimentary and not total in eitherself. With all the shortcomings of Nehru, one can not simply write off his contribution to the nation building of India. Compare India with other countries who got their freedom along with us. I am sure most will agree, we haven't fared so badly. Fifty Six years in the history of a free nation is not a great deal. We may argue, we might have done better. Even I agree. Unfortunately nations do not move at the same pace as we individuals think. Dictators often get this notion of moving the nations at the pace of their thinking and fail badly. We will do great injustice to our leaders of that era if we doubt their intentions and integrity. In their own right, they were all great. May be each had his own views and philosophy on nation building. Compare with modern day politicians, they all lived simple life and sacrificed everything for the nation. Most aristocrate of all Nehru suffered a lot at personal front. His wife dies of tuberculosis and he had no time to be by her side. The family gave up everything for the nation. In comparision look at today's Chief Ministers and even smaller politicians. They all have shares in business and have money in Swiss Bank.

I know we can debate this topic for years. People can come out heaps of ridicule against any past leader. However, let us judge them by their intentions and not by some mistakes or human weaknesses they had. They were all great people in their own respect and stood much taller than any of the present day leader/ polotician.

Regards
'Rajendra
 
As of Gandhi´s contribution to indian independence I believe he came back to India very famous for his exploits in South Africa and instantly got the leadership of congress which was vacant around that time. And how he lead the movement I think tons of material is there on it.
But independence was as much as result of practical analysis by british(their hallmark) as the contribution of creme la creme of congress leadership.I would rather attribute it to the erosion of economic value of India as colony and I read recently that at the time of independence Britain owed money to India for services of indian soldiers in both world wars.
I believe this fact would take off much credit from Gandhi as "the man" who got us independence!
He didnt live long enough after independence but that was good enough to have sizeable muslim population back in India. Partition was inevitable would or would not have Nehru yielded in.There are numerous accounts of hindus being persecuted in north western provinces. Also hindu in western punjab were mostly big landlords or money lenders and muslims were small farmers and even if they had big land holdings they owed to hindu baniya so there was this simmering anti-hindu sentiments which could have erupted even if partition didnt happen. I am particularly appalled at the way Gandhi handled aftermath of partition and his murder was inevitable as numerous hindu saw it as injustice.
Now if we look at his non-violence methodology I am surprised how he thought it would work against people as cold and as inconsiderate as english and peope who are as oppressed and as depraved as indians at that time. And there were incidents when patience on both sides ran out and results were there to be seen.
And on austerity in his lifestyle well it is said that it was maintained to be looked that way.Lesser said is better.
And to compare this man with Gautam Budh and other greats will be a travesty for Gautam Budh left a legacy which saved millions of people from harshness of brahminism . What Gandhi left behind is Nehru and India with all the ethnic problems what it has today!!!
He applied wrong methods at wrong time and wrong place and was too emotional to be leader of great country as ours.
Comments are welcome
 
Dear Abhishek,

1. I differ on the point that British gave freedom to India purely because of economic reasons. They were rulers and could have easily got it passed in parliament to get the money written off. Who could stop them ?

2. This will be great injustice to the man if one says that he was made to live that way with some motive behind. He could have easily lived in England and practiced law. By our thinking he should have never gone to SA and then return to India..

3. Putting him in the cataory of Budha and others is again a matter of personal value one puts on his actions. What Lord Rama is to us Hindus, may be nothing at all to Muslims.

3. I do not agree that he left behind the mess what India is today. If I accept your views on this, I will go a step further and say that 2/3rd of Gods were born in India and its they who left all this mess here. Interstingly all our Gods were born in UP and Bihar area of India and how two states are is a matter of everyones knowledge.

As I said, there will be differing views on such topics ...

Regards
Rajendra
 
Just a few points from my side.

Gandhi ji died on January of 48, while trains full of Muslims were still going to Pakistan until August 48. It was Nehru who stopped them citing the "plight" of the "poor" Muslims. I believe that it was a good strategy to get Muslim Votes and compassion. Whatever his reasons were, it was definitely Nehru and not Gandhi who prevented Muslims to go to Pakistan.

Gandhi was truly a great leader of non-violence and I think that freedom can't be won through violence. You just re-enforce the will of the opressors to curb your "terrorism".

The one mistake that Gandhi made was that he didn't let Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel become the Prime Minister even though more members of Parliament as well as Congress were with him than Nehru. If Patel was the PM, there would have been two nations, Pakistan full of Muslims, and India with other religions.

Finally, I would like to say that I still have a lot of respect for Gandhi ji because it's extremely hard to follow the path of Truth & Non-Violence.

-Satyeshwar
 
Satyeshwar Singh (Oct 02, 2003 02:03 p.m.):

The one mistake that Gandhi made was that he didn't let Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel become the Prime Minister ....
-Satyeshwar
Click to expand...

Yeah well, My friend that one mistake cost a nation much!...

...Anyways, to continue the discussion, we must realize that although the preaching of non-violence might have got results where much else failed, but we would be gravely mistaken if we believe that it was all that was needed for the change of heart by the British.

As a national leader he stands right there with the rest, but I think it is probably more appropriate to say that actually they ALL complimented each, more than one individual standing out!...For me, he is right there with Patel, Shastri, Bose and even Nehru (who although bombed horribly with the Simla accord, and was doubtable at best as a policy maker, still managed to jump start a nation into what is called now the modern India!), but that's it...period! He (Gandhi) was... because they all were!...and also because there were all the lakhs that followed....The followers make the man, not vice-versa!

The country went into mourning with Gandhi's death but it did not stop the turning of the wheels of a nation rising from slumber...

The bottom line is when it mattered the most the great 'Mahatma' bowed to the politics, and erred horribly to the cost of generations and centuries to come in a nation that is till mired in appalling policies. Turning your cheek for a second slap has been stretched to fifth and sixth slaps now. Where we all know that non-violence is no more the means to an end now, and just as a nations natural aspiration to self assessment cannot be undermined anymore by mindless and redundant policies by leaders of a past era, ...so is the practice of trying to draw the present generation into thanking him or putting him on a pedestal, when they experience the fallout each and every day!!!....
 
"Generations to come, it may be, will scarce believe that such a one as this ever in flesh and blood walked upon this earth." - Albert Einstein

"Gandhi was probably the first person in history to lift the love ethic of Jesus above mere interaction between individuals to a powerful and effective social force on a large scale. The intellectual and moral satisfaction that I failed to gain from the utilitarianism of Bentham and Mill, the revolutionary methods of Marx and Lenin, the social contract theory of Hobbes, the 'back to nature' optimism of Rousseau, and the superman philosophy of Nietzsche, I found in the non-violent resistance pholosophy of Gandhi." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

"There can be few men in history who, by personal character and example have been able so deeply to influence the thought of their generation." - Lord Irwin, India's former Viceroy

"No country but India and no religion but Hinduism could have given birth to a Gandhi."
- Editorial, The Times of London





"Bravery is not a quality of the body, it is of the soul." - Mahatma Gandhi
 
by the "old wise man" I meant the guy who said it would have been better for India if Nehru had died in his childhood..........
And Mahatama Gandhi was never with or against anyone for the post of the first PM.
 
"Generations to come, it may be, will scarce believe that such a one as this ever in flesh and blood walked upon this earth." - Albert Einstein

AND THE SAME ALBERT EINSTEIN ALSO SAID-"Through the release of atomic energy, our generation has brought into the world the most revolutionary force since prehistoric man's discovery of fire. This basic force of the universe cannot be fitted into the outmoded concept of narrow nationalisms!"...

"Gandhi was probably the first person in history to lift the love ethic of Jesus above mere interaction between individuals to a powerful and effective social force on a large scale. The intellectual and moral satisfaction that I failed to gain from the utilitarianism of Bentham and Mill, the revolutionary methods of Marx and Lenin, the social contract theory of Hobbes, the 'back to nature' optimism of Rousseau, and the superman philosophy of Nietzsche, I found in the non-violent resistance pholosophy of Gandhi." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

..AND THIS LEADER OF THE BLACKS ALSO FAMOUSLY SAID-"History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.

"There can be few men in history who, by personal character and example have been able so deeply to influence the thought of their generation." - Lord Irwin, India's former Viceroy

...SINCE WE ARE ON THE TOPIC of British Viceroy's, maybe the quote by this another Viceroy to India, Lord Linlithgow... WILL EXPLAIN WHERE, WHEN AND WHAT THEY REALLY LIKED TO SAY ABOUT THOSE DAMNED INDIAN'S-""After all, we framed the constitution as it stands in the Act of 1935, because we thought that was the best way - given the political position in both countries - of maintaining British influence in India. It is no part of policy, I take it, to expedite the constitutional changes for their own sake, or gratuitously to hurry the handing over of controls to Indian hands at any faster pace than we regard as best calculated on a long view to hold India to the Empire."

"Bravery is not a quality of the body, it is of the soul." - Mahatma Gandhi

AND WELL FINALLY SOME WORDS....SPOKEN BY THE 'MAHATMA' HIMSELF-"The Muslim as a rule is a bully, and the Hindu as a rule is a coward."....

...AND I REST MY CASE....
 
Amit Sansanwal (Oct 03, 2003 03:45 p.m.):
by the "old wise man" I meant the guy who said it would have been better for India if Nehru had died in his childhood..........
And Mahatama Gandhi was never with or against anyone for the post of the first PM.
Click to expand...

...Oh really?
Even if that is true (and a quick trip to the official recorded history should be enough to bring to light the true facts to most)...then I presume he just very conveniently chose to keep a studious silence about those final ongoing proceedings before him (after just having wrestled his precious nation form the British), did he?...

...and on an ending note, what could be a bigger tragedy and/or more pathetic when people who can really make a difference.......... stay silent at crucial moments?
 
GANDHI: Traitor to the People
By Raj Dhillon

Destiny and fate are for clowns. Events are the result of planned action in a particular interest. The assertion of Gandhi was deliberate and staged.

Gandhi is regarded as the traitor of True Indian Independence by Indians throughout India. This is supported by all Indians/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis whom have studied the truth of Indian history as written from the Indian viewpoint as opposed to that presented by the west (British) and that written by high government officials whom have somewhat falsified a version of our history to suit their own requirements.

"I would give up the finest sons of India to save the British empire in it's dying hour."
The abundant evidence is clear as is presented by Gandhi's autobiography, ("Experiments with Truth"), where he continually contradicts his own varying views. What you observe as good and wholesome is the subjective and heavily biased perception presented forward by British historians and current government endorsed publications. They fail to even mention the failures by the British raj against other freedom fighting parties which played a very large part in the destabilization of colonial rule during the imperialists' dying hour.

Instead they show the British as "peacefully withdrawing" from India as a direct cause of Gandhi's activity. However they completely and very conveniently forgot to mention the losses faced by British troops through rebellion of North West and East India. Destabilization was already afoot. Indian regiments were in rebellion in the south, east and west. The martyrdom of over 500 Indian regiment troops in south India is but one of many examples. It was a matter of; do the British tactfully retreat essentially buying time to withdraw all resources with minimal damage and loss...Or do they face the rising onslaught of their own troops and face being thrown out at the expense of the loss of valuable resource export.Please do not take the British raj for idiots. They executed this plan very well indeed.

Secondly Gandhi was a prime candidate for this course of action. Widely accepted as having an inferiority complex which is further supported by his autobiography; quote:

(Example 1)
"I would give up the finest sons of India to save the British empire in it's dying hour"

(Example 2)
"We [Indians] can only be granted the responsibility of freedom once we learn to civilze ourselves first. [like the British]"

Do you think it acceptable to fight for your own captors and exploiters as was done in W.W.II??? Can you logically conclude that we should lay down our lives for the same people that whipped our people, raped our women and pillaged our country? Do you regard Indian philosophy of that era so backward that we should strive to become "British" before we are granted freedom??? Why does Gandhi regard freedom not a right!!! These are just some ridicules of British History and the Gandhi hypocrisy. A preacher of non-violence indeed [sarcasm].He himself recruited troops for the British army during W.W.II. Where was his preaching of non-violence then. His hypocrisy by endorsing so called non-violence for the purpose of suffocating Indian revolt is clearly demonstrated by his sudden change in philosophy to recruit troops for the British army during W.W.II. His values, beliefs and views are clearly hypocritical and ridiculous.

The fundamental and fatal flaws in Gandhi's philosophy can be deduced from his own writings. The content and tone not only in his "Experiments with Truth" autobiography but with his other excerpts also support his inferiority complex. He was taught in Britain from a young age in an open racially discriminating environment. If you are told all your life that you are inferior then this has that affect on your psyche. Such a leader with such a complex is very detrimental for the people of India indeed. We can see the consequences in the poverty and exploitation of our people and the "so-called" democratic system which remains as a dud and legacy from British colonial rule. The constitution of which has not changed since British Imperialism. The rulers of India may have changed, but the system of rape pillage and exploitation of people has not.

I find it infuriating when people quote our History according to British translation or rather, British manufacture. I would suggest that you please read Gandhi's works before before drawing such assumptions of his character and purpose. Indian history at source holds truth. Not historical analysis commissioned by various British organizations or those serving such. You may surprise yourself and the beliefs we have been indoctrined with by the west as well as the powers at large of our divided nation.

Don't even mention his policy of so-called "non-violence". Why the hell did he make the statement above as well as lead a recruitment march for British Army during W.W.I???

Gandhi was a traitorous puppet. A clown by all standards.


References: Autobiography : "The Story of My Experiments With Truth" : Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi;
 
Dear Rajdan,

Everyone has the right to his or her views on any matter or about any person or faith. There has not been any great person in history who has not faced such criticism. I wish to express my views on some of the points on which Gandhi ji has been painted black;

1. First of all on Indian troops taking part in world wars; .. This was a right decision to oppose Hitler and Japanese who were so racists. Look at what Hitler did to millions of Jews and Japanese did to Chinese and Koreans. Imagine the fate of world with Germany and Japan in control...That would have been a much worst world...

2. Radical views are always there about any great leader or social reformer. Most had the same fate, be it Jesus, Lord Krishna, Daya Nanad to name few. Often they get assasinated in real or or through writings. People with hardly any existance pass judgements on such great people. It reminds me of the reactions we Jats had few months back when Monica Dutta wrote about Jats and then Vir Singhvi wrote. Historians are not history makers. At best they are like film crtics and nothing more.

3. For the moment let us assume Gandhi ji was what Dhillon and his likes think. Will any one name me a person or leader who would have got India freedom? If so, why that person did not do so or could not do so? What prevented that leader to do so?

One can postmartum the past and come out with findings of one's choice or likings, no one can prevent. Every man and woman in India was not a fool that they joined the freedom movement on Gandhi ji's call. People threw their imported cloths in fire. In Gandhi most Indians saw a honest committed man who stood for their cause and applied the right methods. If we can not emulate a person, let us not condem him or her just because God has given us the toungue to speak and wrting power to write. Finally, Sun can not be covered by dust storms here and there...It will always shine high in the sky. Finally, Why can't the people like Raj Dhillon or all those who think Gandhi was traitor to people, come out in open and sove the problems of this country. There is so much to do and these great historians know so well what is right for India and how to do it.. Who is stopping them ? Why can't at lesat one of them come out and lead the masses of this contry to overtake USA or all those who ruled us..???? I will accept they words on Gandhi if they lead the nation for its betterment.

Regards
Rajendra
 
Dear All,

I am in complete agreement with Rajinder Ji and would not like to add any further except to comment on the recruitment of Indians for World War I&II. The British Indian Army which was officered by the Britishers and Indians, mostly had Indian soldiers. By Indian I mean Indian and Pakistani. I hope I don't offend many when I say that the progress we see in our commumnity today is because our grandfathers joined the Army and fought in Europe, Middle and Far East. They also learnt new skills. All those who want to know how, please read 'A Matter of Honour' by Mason, I think Peter it is. Gandhiji did a great favour by asking the masses to join the war effort. Who benefited? Indians. Yes, the Britishers were saved the blushes but then they were the rulers. In any case the Regiments fight for the 'Naam', 'Namak' and 'Nishan'.

A word about India and what have we done with that Independence. I gave this example to my Italian friends just the other day. We have all played jig saw puzzle sometimes. I remember playing it with the Map of India in school. Well try playing it with a world map and place India on Europe in this manner. Place Kanyakumari (The southern most tip) on Istanbul in Turkey and Srinagar on Norway. You would now have Gujarat on Spain and our Eastern most tip near Moscow. I know you would be surprised to see the length and breadth of our sub-continent. This land mass has remained one despite all our failings. And 57 years is not even a 'comma' in the life of a nation. Yugoslavia, an Andhra Pradesh sized country, could not remain one and saw the worst massacre after WW II. And all this is because we have a Gandhi in each one of us who tells us to be tolerant, forgiving and more.

The fault is not in Gandhiji or his teachings but within ourselves as we cannot make sacrifices that are required of us. Criticism is easy and we criticise. We are the master followers of and old saying "Do what I say, not what I do". We will reach no where if we keep discussing "If he would have done that" or " If Jinnah was made the PM". The reality is in front of us and we have to make do with what we have.

Let us now see what you do for your society, commumnity and country.

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)
JAT BALWAN, JAI BHAGWAN
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top