Missing links in Jat History

long back one allexander also came, fought many jats in punjab, but dared not to come to haryana...a university like allexandaria seems to have been heard in europe after his name.......but these jats of that haryana again fail in their 4-5th class...to understand the benefits and losses of resvation...to obc...that was framed by ur budhha of western up...namely charan....many tokas jats of taxila like that of ambhi also do not understand it...
 
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spdeshwal said:
Dear Rajender ji and others!

Recently I was reading an old article regarding the origin of Maoris, the natives of New Zealand. Thus far, it is believed that the tribal Maoris migrated from other pacific islands almost 1000 years ago.A recent study by a young Anthropologist, with the help of DNA mapping/ testing has concluded that most likely the Maoris come from a remote hillside area in Taiwan.

After reading the above mentioned article,I was wondering that, isn't possible to connect these missing links with the help of DNA study/ mapping ( I don't no if this is the right term) of the various groups scattered all around the world. I know , it wouldn't be an easy task but a beginning has to be made.


Cheers!
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Sir,

I believe lots of genetic studies are already going on on the origin of Aryans. I am not sure if anything specific to Jats is also being done. Here is an article on the genetic studies that are increasingly discrediting the aryan invasion/migration theory.

http://pragati.nationalinterest.in/2009/06/the-peopling-of-india/

These studies suggest that Aryans were indigenous people in India and there actually might have been migration from India to Central Asia. However, this is still a theory (and by no means factual) challenging the older theory of Aryan invasion/migration. It is backed to an extent by genetic studies, but is by no means a proven fact.

Regards,
Kapil
 
kapil.dalal said:
Sir,

I believe lots of genetic studies are already going on on the origin of Aryans. I am not sure if anything specific to Jats is also being done. Here is an article on the genetic studies that are increasingly discrediting the aryan invasion/migration theory.

http://pragati.nationalinterest.in/2009/06/the-peopling-of-india/

These studies suggest that Aryans were indigenous people in India and there actually might have been migration from India to Central Asia. However, this is still a theory (and by no means factual) challenging the older theory of Aryan invasion/migration. It is backed to an extent by genetic studies, but is by no means a proven fact.

Regards,
Kapil
Click to expand...


there were many hard facts nd not only theories where migration of jats from india to outside nd outside to india went on. the hardest among them is that the kushanas sakas nd huns jat poured into india nd kanishka was a jat nd the era started by these jats are still followed nd well recognised by indian nation. similarly there were many jats that moved out of india particularly with alexander, mhmd. bin qasim etc.
 
nd there jats moved to baghdad with mhmd bin qasim from sindh and there they revolted and ruled iraq for 15 years. jats were flocked to iraq by mhmd. bin qasim where they got settled over there with their buffaloes nd flutes. as soon as they were firmly settled over there, tey revolted. saddam, as i hv heard from that stock of jats from india please see the name of his sons- uday/udayan etc. the typical jat names in villages like benipal.
 
rkumar said:
Benipal is common Jat gotra among Sikhs. Benipal was a famous ashur king. In all probability the Benipal gotra has its origin in the name of this great king.

RK^2
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kalkhande ji.
pvh wale, plz concentrate on the name uday/udayan also like assur benipal. jats were divided in three communities- dev assur nd danav
devs usually inhabited india nd were often defeated by assurs nd similar was the fate of aurs at the hand of dens the danavas. though it was not a regular feature. if ten times asur defeated devas then five to fifteen times devas also. the story goes: once parvati insisted to lord shiva that please tell me the origin of these jats. there shiva told parvati that "mahabala mahaviria mahasatva parakrame sarvangye kshatriya these jataram ruled the earth first of all..sumthing like that" (devsamhita, siva uvaach). there many asur gots of jats mentioned in mahabharata, like morasur nd narasur. that means mor nd nehra jats were killed by krishna. there was one kakasur the kakran jat was sent by kans to kill baby krishna...................
 
among devas gots, only one got like deval/deol/dabhole......................
i cud identify among jats. but majorities of asurs only. like bains jats they are called bainsasur/bhainsasur is described in puranas as mahishasur. but he was a rakht beej......................................
however, inspite of such brilliant historians and knowledgeble peole like u kalkhande ji on this jatland. this jatland still suffers on the topic of reservations. the basic calculations of primary schools. nd on that thread jat is really proving that jat re jat 16 duni 8.
 
snandal1 said:
there were many hard facts nd not only theories where migration of jats from india to outside nd outside to india went on. the hardest among them is that the kushanas sakas nd huns jat poured into india nd kanishka was a jat nd the era started by these jats are still followed nd well recognised by indian nation. similarly there were many jats that moved out of india particularly with alexander, mhmd. bin qasim etc.
Click to expand...

Do you know the difference between theory and fact?
 
India in Greece

Accidently I came across this book "India in Greece" By Edward Pococke published in 1852. This book strengthens my hypothesis based upon which I started this thread. Here is the link to the book;

http://books.google.com/books?id=_JUzEji2KP8C&printsec=frontcover&rview=1

As per the auther there was massive migration from India when Hindus pushed out most of the Budhists. These Budhists settled in Greece and in many other parts of Europe. Book needs very careful reading. Book seems to have answered many puzzles I had for a long time.

I would suggest that memebrs read this book and then discuss its contents here.

RK^2
 
kapil.dalal said:
Do you know the difference between theory and fact?
Click to expand...
this is quoted by s nandal

actualy he is like a mystic poets (rahasyawadi kavi) either he himself is not sure what he is writing or he knows much much more than he himself knows ?
so it is very difficult to understsand what he says for ordinary jats,

for example bhainsasur was bains jat .
devta sabhi deol jat the
every thing is jat everybody is jat .
phir bhi reservation bina sab soon
 
snandal1 said:
nd there jats moved to baghdad with mhmd bin qasim from sindh and there they revolted and ruled iraq for 15 years. jats were flocked to iraq by mhmd. bin qasim where they got settled over there with their buffaloes nd flutes. as soon as they were firmly settled over there, tey revolted. saddam, as i hv heard from that stock of jats from india please see the name of his sons- uday/udayan etc. the typical jat names in villages like benipal.
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ab saddam hussain ko bhi jaat bana diya? bas karo,ulti sidhi kalpana aur khayali ghore daurana.saari duniya ko jaat mat banao.
udayan/udaybhan kewal jat ka nahi ,sabhi jatiyon me milta hai to kya sabhi jat honge so this is not correct .:rock
 
singhran said:
ab saddam hussain ko bhi jaat bana diya? bas karo,ulti sidhi kalpana aur khayali ghore daurana.saari duniya ko jaat mat banao.
udayan/udaybhan kewal jat ka nahi ,sabhi jatiyon me milta hai to kya sabhi jat honge so this is not correct .:rock
Click to expand...
very rightly said. wat are ur views about reservation of jats in OBC?:rock
 
rkumar said:
Accidently I came across this book "India in Greece" By Edward Pococke published in 1852. This book strengthens my hypothesis based upon which I started this thread. Here is the link to the book;

http://books.google.com/books?id=_JUzEji2KP8C&printsec=frontcover&rview=1

As per the auther there was massive migration from India when Hindus pushed out most of the Budhists. These Budhists settled in Greece and in many other parts of Europe. Book needs very careful reading. Book seems to have answered many puzzles I had for a long time.

I would suggest that memebrs read this book and then discuss its contents here.

RK^2
Click to expand...


kalkhandeji kabhi history nahiun samajh aaye to poochh liya karo...knowing history, particularly that of jats is not a coffee house...ne...way what are ur views on jat reservation....y jats like u r migrating to england from pvh?...i hope for better jobs only...
 
rkumar said:
Accidently I came across this book "India in Greece" By Edward Pococke published in 1852. This book strengthens my hypothesis based upon which I started this thread. Here is the link to the book;

http://books.google.com/books?id=_JUzEji2KP8C&printsec=frontcover&rview=1

As per the auther there was massive migration from India when Hindus pushed out most of the Budhists. These Budhists settled in Greece and in many other parts of Europe. Book needs very careful reading. Book seems to have answered many puzzles I had for a long time.

I would suggest that memebrs read this book and then discuss its contents here.

RK^2
Click to expand...


kalkhande ji
only a few buddhist jats cud have migrated, rest all jats in sindh means gujrat also were converted to SC nd they are still living there. till u r not crystal clear about the policy of reservation, that is the latest history of jats, no amount of google search will give n e benefit to jats...only the non-jats on this jatland wd take advantage of ur seudo knowledge whims n fences...
 
snandal1 said:
very rightly said. wat are ur views about reservation of jats in OBC?:rock
Click to expand...



history thread is not meant for discussing about reservation and what ola said ,you mix many things but loose the direction ,about reservation i think only 20% jats qualify for the reservation the same thing is with some others like yadav,mina, kurmi only 20% deserve in real sense .if you want reservation for bhupendra huda, ajit singh,chautala ,then i will say this is a most selfish move , and such moves dont match with jat mahan and does never wrong and always sides with justice theory . by reservation to well of somebody is denied of his due share.
 
Missing links in Jat History,

I am new to the forum. So not equipped to make serious comments on issues before I have fully understood them. But I beg to submit a few things for consideration. 1. We should keep mythology seperate from History Not denying the evidence from the former). 2. (i)Unauthentic texts , especially those in ancient languages like Sanskrit and Prakrit should be critically looked at before giving them a place at par with the authentic ones. (ii) the interpretations should be in cordancewith the context and as per rules of the grammar. 3. Caste patiotism, however commendable a thing, should not prevail over the facts supplied by evidence material. 4. Chronology being the life line of history should not be sidetracked for convenient conclusions.In my humble opinion several Jat historians have fallen prey to the syndrom of we are the best, 'we are the ancient most'. A good thing in itself for keeping the fir e alive, but fatal for ariving at the truth.5. We should delink the label (today it is jat, and we will defend it) and the people whose identity was famous by their gotra nmaes, which , no doubt have undergone unrecognisable changes and transformation.Thanks
 
drssrana2003 said:
I am new to the forum. So not equipped to make serious comments on issues before I have fully understood them. But I beg to submit a few things for consideration. 1. We should keep mythology seperate from History Not denying the evidence from the former). 2. (i)Unauthentic texts , especially those in ancient languages like Sanskrit and Prakrit should be critically looked at before giving them a place at par with the authentic ones. (ii) the interpretations should be in cordancewith the context and as per rules of the grammar. 3. Caste patiotism, however commendable a thing, should not prevail over the facts supplied by evidence material. 4. Chronology being the life line of history should not be sidetracked for convenient conclusions.In my humble opinion several Jat historians have fallen prey to the syndrom of we are the best, 'we are the ancient most'. A good thing in itself for keeping the fir e alive, but fatal for ariving at the truth.5. We should delink the label (today it is jat, and we will defend it) and the people whose identity was famous by their gotra nmaes, which , no doubt have undergone unrecognisable changes and transformation.Thanks
Click to expand...

I will submit my whole hearted agreement with Dr. Rana.

Dr. Rana is a retired Dean of Colleges of Delhi University. By education he is an Historian, and a P.hd in Sanskrit, a rare achievement in our community.

One can only hope that more of our younger generation will follow follow his example and pursue studies in History and Sanskrit.

I will request Dr Rana to review the History section, and the Wiki section, to help create valid history of our people.


Ravi Chaudhary
 
Continueing with my original hypothesis that surnames and place names act like tracers, I googled for a fairly common suffix we use with names, "charan", like in Ram Charan, Shiv Charan,Shyam Charan, Devi Charan, Har Charan, Charan Singh etc.... This is what I found;

1. Charan was a town in Mesopotamia (http://bible.ort.org/books/glosd1.asp?action=displayanchor&glosid=G138)
2. Charan is a village in Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charan,_Iran)
3. Sandra Charan in UK (http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandra-Charan/656094282)
4. Nights of Villjamur by Mark Charan Newton (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/jun/06/nights-villjamur-mark-charan-newton)
5.Jewish surname in Poland (http://www.jewishgen.org/Jri-pl/psa/konin_surn.htm)

RK^2
 
rkumar said:
Continueing with my original hypothesis that surnames and place names act like tracers, I googled for a fairly common suffix we use with names, "charan", like in Ram Charan, Shiv Charan,Shyam Charan, Devi Charan, Har Charan, Charan Singh etc.... This is what I found;

1. Charan was a town in Mesopotamia (http://bible.ort.org/books/glosd1.asp?action=displayanchor&glosid=G138)
2. Charan is a village in Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charan,_Iran)
3. Sandra Charan in UK (http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandra-Charan/656094282)
4. Nights of Villjamur by Mark Charan Newton (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/jun/06/nights-villjamur-mark-charan-newton)
5.Jewish surname in Poland (http://www.jewishgen.org/Jri-pl/psa/konin_surn.htm)

RK^2
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Good links provided to further stimulate further research.
 
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