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sktewatia
Guest
type my name sk tewatia on net, or just tewatia
n then my mother's name krishna devi on deletion of ncert books
n then my mother's name krishna devi on deletion of ncert books
Missing links in Jat History
- Thread starter rkumar
- Start date
Sorry Uncle ........but the assumption that Roma Gypsies have Jat or Indian descent is totally absurd.
Genetic testing has confired that Roma Gypsies have nothing to do with India ... this theory was floated in early 19th century .....
Gypsies and jats have nothing in common ..... genetically ... culturally or even customs and traditions.
Genetic testing has confired that Roma Gypsies have nothing to do with India ... this theory was floated in early 19th century .....
Gypsies and jats have nothing in common ..... genetically ... culturally or even customs and traditions.
It's my request to people who post in history section, plz provide some kind of source whenever a significant claim is made. A quick search on Roma gypsies reveals that its very probable that they migrated from India.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/roma.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~Gypsy3M/roma.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people
Vjk, plz provide where did you get genetic claims. I don't know much about Roma gypsy, may be Raviji can throw more light on it, but just putting heavy words like science, genetic or archeology doesn't prove a point. In fact some reliable source like The Hindu says Romas are genetically closer to Indians.
http://www.hindu.com/seta/2005/11/17/stories/2005111700041500.htm
Wikipedia says their blood group ABO is also Indian characteristic. Wanna know more...
http://www.answers.com/topic/roma-people
NOW lets talk about science. American Journal of Human Genetics 75(4) 2004 says
"....., and the identity of the congenital myasthenia 1267delG mutation in Gypsy and Indian/Pakistani chromosomes provided the best evidence yet of the Indian origins of the Gypsies."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15322984&dopt=Citation
Chalo tu bhi kya yaad rakhega... Review paper in BMC Medical Genetics 2001
http://bmc.ub.uni-potsdam.de/1471-2350-2-5/1471-2350-2-5.pdf
I guess this scientific paper explains it best... Is there anything left?????
-Vinod
http://www.religioustolerance.org/roma.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~Gypsy3M/roma.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people
Vjk, plz provide where did you get genetic claims. I don't know much about Roma gypsy, may be Raviji can throw more light on it, but just putting heavy words like science, genetic or archeology doesn't prove a point. In fact some reliable source like The Hindu says Romas are genetically closer to Indians.
http://www.hindu.com/seta/2005/11/17/stories/2005111700041500.htm
Wikipedia says their blood group ABO is also Indian characteristic. Wanna know more...
http://www.answers.com/topic/roma-people
NOW lets talk about science. American Journal of Human Genetics 75(4) 2004 says
"....., and the identity of the congenital myasthenia 1267delG mutation in Gypsy and Indian/Pakistani chromosomes provided the best evidence yet of the Indian origins of the Gypsies."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15322984&dopt=Citation
Chalo tu bhi kya yaad rakhega... Review paper in BMC Medical Genetics 2001
http://bmc.ub.uni-potsdam.de/1471-2350-2-5/1471-2350-2-5.pdf
I guess this scientific paper explains it best... Is there anything left?????
-Vinod
vjkharub said:
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I have been searching on google what I always believed. As mentioned under some of my other post, I strongly believed that Islam was started by the surviving Kauravas who migrated to west Asia after the Mahabharat war. To prove my logic, I googled for the most hated Mahabharat period names. The top name, which came to my mind, was of Mama Sakuni. If my logic has any basis, I should be able to find Sakuni name in the spread of Islam. As most of you would accept, no one will ever name his child Sakuni in India. So this is what I got;
http://www.geocities.com/muslimapoca...Prophecies.htm
there is a paragraph in above link which reads;
"Israeli-Palestinian Conflict:
Son of Hajr Al-'Asqalani related that Abu Idris Al- Khaulani heard from Nahik son of Surim Al-Sakuni that the Messenger of Allah; Muhammad said: "You will fight the unbelievers until the remnant of you fights on the River Jordan, you to the east of it and they to the west of it." Al-Saukuni said that he did not know where on earth the Jordan was at that time."
There is mention of name Sakuni in the holy text of Islam. One can see Mama Sakuni in real action there also. This makes my belief very strong that Islam was started by leftover Kauravs who migrated to west Asia.
On further search I found this Sakuni as an active member in spreading the Islam;
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/rf6_yazid_husayn.htm
There is mention of Sakuni in the The Constitution of The Islamic Republic of Iran;
http://www.iranembassy.hu/political_constitution.html
Rajendra
http://www.geocities.com/muslimapoca...Prophecies.htm
there is a paragraph in above link which reads;
"Israeli-Palestinian Conflict:
Son of Hajr Al-'Asqalani related that Abu Idris Al- Khaulani heard from Nahik son of Surim Al-Sakuni that the Messenger of Allah; Muhammad said: "You will fight the unbelievers until the remnant of you fights on the River Jordan, you to the east of it and they to the west of it." Al-Saukuni said that he did not know where on earth the Jordan was at that time."
There is mention of name Sakuni in the holy text of Islam. One can see Mama Sakuni in real action there also. This makes my belief very strong that Islam was started by leftover Kauravs who migrated to west Asia.
On further search I found this Sakuni as an active member in spreading the Islam;
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/rf6_yazid_husayn.htm
There is mention of Sakuni in the The Constitution of The Islamic Republic of Iran;
http://www.iranembassy.hu/political_constitution.html
Rajendra
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sktewatia
Guest
raghuvansha
In my childhood, I read the hindi translation of this novel. I've forgotten that but I can try to search it now for you. It must be available somewhere. Plz see this artcle of genome resaerch by dr bamshaad. by this name only u can search it on net.
In my childhood, I read the hindi translation of this novel. I've forgotten that but I can try to search it now for you. It must be available somewhere. Plz see this artcle of genome resaerch by dr bamshaad. by this name only u can search it on net.
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sktewatia
Guest
about languages
at the dawn of historical civilizations about 10000 yrs back. jats spoke sm languages now called the indo-european ones. the grimmes law of variation explains them. as far as i know, almost whole india except for deep south, n deep east n then whole west asia n europe right upto the scandinavia spoke these languages. n e one can understand these languages within six months even english provided he's born in jatland. n upto jutland. every city of jutland is a replication of rajasthan like the city of ijjesselmeir over there like jesselmer of india. the county of jutland.
basically the original name was skandhnabh meaning "sainikon ka desh" all indians were there but as soldiers, selected as dare devil the tallest ones. till today the average height of scandinavians is the highest in the world. similar to khurdistan people. bhainsru kurd, kheda khurd,.....
i strongly propose 2 use original dialects by jats in their "theth" form. the Theth Braj (originator of modern hindi), the theth punjabi, the theth haryanvi, khadi boli, english (is as much aryan or indo european as hindi is):
My: moye in braj, me in hindi
all common flora and fauna except the mountains
all near relatives the near and dear ones
like parents- pittur, pitter, pitre, father
mother- matre, maa
brother- birathery, brothery, brother-hood, same clan, same jaati/goth all at least 10000 years old
at the dawn of historical civilizations about 10000 yrs back. jats spoke sm languages now called the indo-european ones. the grimmes law of variation explains them. as far as i know, almost whole india except for deep south, n deep east n then whole west asia n europe right upto the scandinavia spoke these languages. n e one can understand these languages within six months even english provided he's born in jatland. n upto jutland. every city of jutland is a replication of rajasthan like the city of ijjesselmeir over there like jesselmer of india. the county of jutland.
basically the original name was skandhnabh meaning "sainikon ka desh" all indians were there but as soldiers, selected as dare devil the tallest ones. till today the average height of scandinavians is the highest in the world. similar to khurdistan people. bhainsru kurd, kheda khurd,.....
i strongly propose 2 use original dialects by jats in their "theth" form. the Theth Braj (originator of modern hindi), the theth punjabi, the theth haryanvi, khadi boli, english (is as much aryan or indo european as hindi is):
My: moye in braj, me in hindi
all common flora and fauna except the mountains
all near relatives the near and dear ones
like parents- pittur, pitter, pitre, father
mother- matre, maa
brother- birathery, brothery, brother-hood, same clan, same jaati/goth all at least 10000 years old
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sktewatia
Guest
rajendra ji
aap achha kaam kar rahe hain. log kaafi kuchh poochhte hain yaan pe. jo me ne aap ko kaha use publically bataaeye, saare jatt ramon ko saare jat devataon ko. mujhe repeat karane me pareshaani hoti hai. looks u r doing original research. keep it up!!!!!
but father of history said that every battle the jatt faught was unique! the persian wars chapter in herodotus history u plz go thru. jats were called the barbarians meaning the less known people similar 2 aryans called barbarians. the herodotus says that u can not ignore his facts in or near the oxus valley. he narrates sm story about tomyris (tomar) queen of dabas jats (calls dabices who killed cyrus the great).
i feel the alexander was also killed by jats and this was kept hidden by greek historians for at least one year. n hence the story of porus n sikander.
"the battle these barbarian fight with others or amongst themselves are very fierce. but this was the fiercest one"
the tomyris queen, tomar jat, swore by sun god that time. n recently a statue of sun god has been found in village beri in haryana about 1300 ad old. n braj mathura us ke to kahne hi kya hain. no body will name his son as shakuni but i've named my son as kanishka, the kushana, though i'm tewatia jat. he is like me topping in all schools without studying.
first they fought on horse back with arrows. then with swords, ...,
n then with men 2 men combat without arms.....
aap achha kaam kar rahe hain. log kaafi kuchh poochhte hain yaan pe. jo me ne aap ko kaha use publically bataaeye, saare jatt ramon ko saare jat devataon ko. mujhe repeat karane me pareshaani hoti hai. looks u r doing original research. keep it up!!!!!
but father of history said that every battle the jatt faught was unique! the persian wars chapter in herodotus history u plz go thru. jats were called the barbarians meaning the less known people similar 2 aryans called barbarians. the herodotus says that u can not ignore his facts in or near the oxus valley. he narrates sm story about tomyris (tomar) queen of dabas jats (calls dabices who killed cyrus the great).
i feel the alexander was also killed by jats and this was kept hidden by greek historians for at least one year. n hence the story of porus n sikander.
"the battle these barbarian fight with others or amongst themselves are very fierce. but this was the fiercest one"
the tomyris queen, tomar jat, swore by sun god that time. n recently a statue of sun god has been found in village beri in haryana about 1300 ad old. n braj mathura us ke to kahne hi kya hain. no body will name his son as shakuni but i've named my son as kanishka, the kushana, though i'm tewatia jat. he is like me topping in all schools without studying.
first they fought on horse back with arrows. then with swords, ...,
n then with men 2 men combat without arms.....
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sktewatia
Guest
jatt e mmare jjatt ya mmarre kkartaar
whole braj was divided in 5 states. up, haryana, rajasthan, mp n dilli. killi hui hai dhilli tomar mutt hu jo mati heen kara tu yaa e seedhi!!!!!!
killi was no other than the mehrauli's loh-stambh. the iron pillar of vikram-2 of vikra-betaall fame.
like the foundation of iron pillar got bit loose n the tomar jaat in delhi gott corrected the foundation of that great killi of jatts.
whole braj was divided in 5 states. up, haryana, rajasthan, mp n dilli. killi hui hai dhilli tomar mutt hu jo mati heen kara tu yaa e seedhi!!!!!!
killi was no other than the mehrauli's loh-stambh. the iron pillar of vikram-2 of vikra-betaall fame.
like the foundation of iron pillar got bit loose n the tomar jaat in delhi gott corrected the foundation of that great killi of jatts.
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sktewatia
Guest
jaattttttttttttttttt , ek naaammmmmmmmmm, kabhi na marne wala naaaammmmmm!
jaat maryo jab jaaniye jubb terhavin ho jaaye!
jaat maryo jab jaaniye jubb terhavin ho jaaye!
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sktewatia
Guest
assyrias capital 99
but then "assurs" a branch of jats like assur banipal ruled over assuria/assyria with their capital "ninenvey" meaning "ninety nine" in hindi.
deols (sunny deol/deval) and danes (danavas) from danemark/scandinavia were equally good jaats. born from diti(daityas, assurs), aditi(aditya's, devas) and danu(danes, danavas) all daughters of daksha prajapati. all brothers n jjjaattsss!!!!!!!!!!!
but then "assurs" a branch of jats like assur banipal ruled over assuria/assyria with their capital "ninenvey" meaning "ninety nine" in hindi.
deols (sunny deol/deval) and danes (danavas) from danemark/scandinavia were equally good jaats. born from diti(daityas, assurs), aditi(aditya's, devas) and danu(danes, danavas) all daughters of daksha prajapati. all brothers n jjjaattsss!!!!!!!!!!!
RKji,
Could you please provide source for your claim that every European have Indian origin?
I went through your links regarding Elam and sakuni name... I appreciate your research, keep it on... Though google should start giving you monetory incentive for being big fan of browsing
similarity of these names suggests that there must have been some kind of migration from India... People should do more research on this...
but I won't say that Islam was started by defeated people in Mahabharta, thats too much... Mahabharta happened 5000years back and Islam is 1500 year old... there might have been migration of Kauravas to Persia and names might have propagated thru generations... There are some proofs that Persia was outer fringe of Vedic civilization... in that context, these migrations aren't surprising...
-vinod
Could you please provide source for your claim that every European have Indian origin?
I went through your links regarding Elam and sakuni name... I appreciate your research, keep it on... Though google should start giving you monetory incentive for being big fan of browsing
similarity of these names suggests that there must have been some kind of migration from India... People should do more research on this...
but I won't say that Islam was started by defeated people in Mahabharta, thats too much... Mahabharta happened 5000years back and Islam is 1500 year old... there might have been migration of Kauravas to Persia and names might have propagated thru generations... There are some proofs that Persia was outer fringe of Vedic civilization... in that context, these migrations aren't surprising...
-vinod
rkumar said:
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supersteve
Guest
Once again refer to gentetics at wiki. Here's the link below. This is a different link from jatlands wiki link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jats#Genetics
A recent study of the genetics of the people of Indian Punjab[1] (where about 40% or more of the population are Jats) suggest that the Jats are similar to other populations of the Indus Valley in terms of Y-snp groupings. Also Jats seem to share many common haplotypes with German, Slavic, Baltic, Iranian and Central Asians [2].Unusually, Jat groups share only two haplotypes, one of which is also shared with Turks (Turkey), and have no matches with neighbouring Pakistani populations. This haplotype shared between the two Jat groups may be part of the Indo-Aryan (or Indo-European) genetic contribution to these populations, where as the haplotypes shared with other eurasian populations may be due to the contribution of Indo-European Scythians (Saka, Massagetae), or White Huns. (These groups may of course all be branches of one larger ethnic complex.)
As to mtdna,Jats contain haplogroups typical of NW Indians,that is haplogroups typical of North India ,Pakistan and West Asia.This suggests that, at least for mtdna,there is very little connection with Central Asian or NW Europe populations; even though Jats share many male Y SNP markers with these populations.Hence this suggests that there has been male migration in or out of the Jat population in historical times.Alternatively,the formation of the Jat population may have occurred in West Asia or North India. Hence Jats are very similar to other North Indian groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jats#Genetics
A recent study of the genetics of the people of Indian Punjab[1] (where about 40% or more of the population are Jats) suggest that the Jats are similar to other populations of the Indus Valley in terms of Y-snp groupings. Also Jats seem to share many common haplotypes with German, Slavic, Baltic, Iranian and Central Asians [2].Unusually, Jat groups share only two haplotypes, one of which is also shared with Turks (Turkey), and have no matches with neighbouring Pakistani populations. This haplotype shared between the two Jat groups may be part of the Indo-Aryan (or Indo-European) genetic contribution to these populations, where as the haplotypes shared with other eurasian populations may be due to the contribution of Indo-European Scythians (Saka, Massagetae), or White Huns. (These groups may of course all be branches of one larger ethnic complex.)
As to mtdna,Jats contain haplogroups typical of NW Indians,that is haplogroups typical of North India ,Pakistan and West Asia.This suggests that, at least for mtdna,there is very little connection with Central Asian or NW Europe populations; even though Jats share many male Y SNP markers with these populations.Hence this suggests that there has been male migration in or out of the Jat population in historical times.Alternatively,the formation of the Jat population may have occurred in West Asia or North India. Hence Jats are very similar to other North Indian groups.
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supersteve
Guest
the link i have posted above is of obvious fact that jats are of Scythian Saka descent and share many genetics haplotypes with europeans. But what puzzles me is the Large genetic contribution of the Turks to are genetics pool.
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supersteve
Guest
I would personaly like to dis prove my link this is just one example of not trusting anything u read on the net.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples
The term "Turk" was first officially used as a political name in the 6th century. Turkic nationalists claim that the expansion of proto-Turkic peoples across Eurasia involved the Scythians (Ishkuz), Xiongnu, Huns, Sarmatians, Khazars, Pechenegs, Alans, Cimmerians, Massagetae and other steppe populations. While some of these peoples may have represented, to some extent, a proto-Turkic or Turkic tribe or confederation, the majority are considered largely non-Turkic. Certainly in later times the Khazars and the Pechenegs were Turkic, but the Cimmerians, Massagetae, Sarmatians and Scythians are thought to have been earlier Indo-European speakers.
thus this proves that my link above wasnt true and that scythians are NOT a proto-turk peoples and those gentics facts of my link above are lies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples
The term "Turk" was first officially used as a political name in the 6th century. Turkic nationalists claim that the expansion of proto-Turkic peoples across Eurasia involved the Scythians (Ishkuz), Xiongnu, Huns, Sarmatians, Khazars, Pechenegs, Alans, Cimmerians, Massagetae and other steppe populations. While some of these peoples may have represented, to some extent, a proto-Turkic or Turkic tribe or confederation, the majority are considered largely non-Turkic. Certainly in later times the Khazars and the Pechenegs were Turkic, but the Cimmerians, Massagetae, Sarmatians and Scythians are thought to have been earlier Indo-European speakers.
thus this proves that my link above wasnt true and that scythians are NOT a proto-turk peoples and those gentics facts of my link above are lies.
vinodks said:
Vinod,
I don't classify myself as historian even remotely. I follow some logics and then look for evidence in literature and science. Here is the link which talks of Europen and their South Asian origin;
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9672838&dopt=Abstract
Since I have dveloped very strong convictions on my hypothesis, I will try my best to give evidence for everything I put forward here.
Continueing my post Mahabharat migration hypothesis further, I looked at another name Drust Duman. I have searched extensively for Duman surnames and once again I found them in Turkey and Europe.
http://www.blogger.com/profile/2697272
http://www.lib.umich.edu/area/Near.East/Catalogues.html
I could not trace a single Duman surname among Indians as expected.
Next hated Mahabharat Character is that of Kichak. Google search on Kichak led me to;
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...modules/whwg/blackdeath.pdf+Kichak+khan&hl=en
AS you would notice in the link, Kichak khan Janibeg was some Muslim invader in 14th century.
RK^2
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The main point of this article is that human didn't come to Europe from Middle East but from middle east to Hindu kush to Russian steppe to north Europe to South Europe... Its contradictory to common sense because Europe is so close to middle east... But their jounrey was barred with cold mountains and people in middle east were not accustomed to cold.... while people in steppes were used to cold and they could march forward and come to Europe thru a long detour... this article talks about similarity in tooth pattern... similar detour theory is proposed by more than one research group... but thie migration happened 30,000 years back from north of Hindu kush(not India) to Europe... at that time there was no notion so called Indian civilization and saying that Europeans have Indian orgin doesn't make much sense, in the sense all people have African origin... but that doesn't mean much when we talk about civilizations... if people had migrated to Europe during Vedic age, then it makes sense in saying Europe has Indian origin...
A very nice interactive atlas of migrations is given in link(by Spencer Wells)
https://www5.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html
you can click on years and see migratory branches, and then click on specifc branch for details...
So a group of people(M9) came to hindu kush 40,000 years back and divided in 3 parts. one up north to steppes, other into china thru tibbet and 3rd group into India.... the brach going north(M45) turned north west and in 10000 years crossed whole steppes and entered in Europe... In that sense European have Indian origin...
I request people to see the link and enjoy the journey!
-vinod
A very nice interactive atlas of migrations is given in link(by Spencer Wells)
https://www5.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html
you can click on years and see migratory branches, and then click on specifc branch for details...
So a group of people(M9) came to hindu kush 40,000 years back and divided in 3 parts. one up north to steppes, other into china thru tibbet and 3rd group into India.... the brach going north(M45) turned north west and in 10000 years crossed whole steppes and entered in Europe... In that sense European have Indian origin...
I request people to see the link and enjoy the journey!
-vinod
rkumar said:
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sktewatia
Guest
rkj
sir
it was perhaps ashwatthamma! teh son of dronn! drushtaa dummnna was saala of arjuna their senapati, the brother of draupadi? but u'r telling smthing very interesting because mahabharata kept revising. originally it was a story of a common jat. the usual jat disputes in family they narmally have till 2day.
plz keep it up another bs dahiya. my heart wants 2 listen 2 u!!
no one knows who's right. but jats the great people do not know about their past. thats what baffles me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
sir
it was perhaps ashwatthamma! teh son of dronn! drushtaa dummnna was saala of arjuna their senapati, the brother of draupadi? but u'r telling smthing very interesting because mahabharata kept revising. originally it was a story of a common jat. the usual jat disputes in family they narmally have till 2day.
plz keep it up another bs dahiya. my heart wants 2 listen 2 u!!
no one knows who's right. but jats the great people do not know about their past. thats what baffles me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1