Muslim Jats

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atul.jhajhria said:
Mr. Kamal, yes and more-ever he is my friend!

We talk regularly.

No issue here.


But again there is thing called: Freedom of Speech

and i dont want anyone to interfere with my rights!

Not even my family members!

Friendship and common interest are different thing and debating on a issue is different:-

When we debate, we debate.

Man to man.
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Padhai pe je itna dhyan de le te badhia rehega....telling all of us here publically how less you care about your family members won't help.....bechare family members bhee ke karen bhai rete jisi ka, koi aure ghale ga tere naath...bhai galati hogi maff kar de....are aur kuchh mat kahiye....thoda sila sila seet pe le are so ja...kyon latte padne ho rya se...mere lekhe bhai muslmana ne jad te khode baishak(How about this why don't you try to say or do the same things to a muslim brother..see what happens)

Kamal bhai thanks for bailing me out(if I am out), toon na bole he to yo te khae gya tha manne!
 
sunitahooda said:
Amit samajh gya beera....
iska matlab sai...apni-apni toombdii...apna apna raag....

iski thread mai tai jo likhega wo nuay Yava hovega....:mad:

I do things on my own wish!

Suppose i dont interfere with you!

And i dont want anyone to tell me what i should do!

Please!
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thanks for the tip....won't happen again chahe Atul bhai saare muslmanna ne khajaa mein nahin boloonga...freedom of speech te chhek lan de isne
 
Ok!

Unfortunately no one ever tried to understand Atul. He is a young man with proven ability for analytical thinking and the members expect him to give up his opinion just because they want him so to do! He has been asked to stop before being convinced! It is unfair.

Atul, you have Muslim friends whose ancestors were like ours and that is why you want them to join the Jatland. Many others object on religious grounds while a few contend the other way saying that the caste factor should outweigh the religion factor. Majority is not always right, I believe! I think it inadvisable for them to join the Jatland but for reasons different from what most of our members have advanced. Let us take them one by one.

First we should know the real reasons of conversion of their ancestors to Islam centuries ago. Was the change of faith forcible or conscientious? If it was forcible, do the grounds still persist. If not, are they ready to convert to Hinduism. If yes, no member of the Jatland should have reason to object. But in case it was for reasons of conscience and the present generations viz your friends still firmly believe in the tenets of Islam, they have no right to claim themselves jats because Islam does not recognise any castes or tribes for its believers. It is founded on the principles of equality. What do they have in common with us to claim as jats? I am seriously interested in knowing that. For example do they honour the gotra system while solemnising marriages? Do they more often than not marry among themselves (the so called Muslim jats)? Please ask them and let us know. I am interested to know this for academic reasons.

Secondly most of them are citizens of an alien country. I do not want to go in the blame game. But the fact is that India and Pakistan are not friendly neighbours. You may recall Pakistan was borne on religious grounds. Chaudhary Chhotu Ram and Syed Hyat Khan were top leaders of the Unionist Party which was founded by these two and some other kisans leaders of the undivided Panjab.(To know more about the kind of relationship these people were having you may search the web and you will find many Pakistani web sites to corroborate what I say. Please try when you have finished reading this post and before start writing the reply, if any.)When the question of creating Pakistan emerged the Unionist Party was disbanded. You may think of the reasons which are obvious. Before that all these Unionist leaders were functioning so cohesively that they could do as much for the farming community as no one ever could do.( I am saying so with out any prejudice to the valuable contribution of Chaudhary Charan Singh, Chaudhary Devi Lal and others). So the bond of religion is not so fragile as probably you think of particularly because human have emotions and emotions can always be played with. Tomorrow on any controversial topic, particularly because we want to exercise our freedom of speech and expression, the difference of opinion may be based on religion. Then your friends will not remain even friendly, not to speak of being friends.

Thirdly such experience tried by people like you but some 60 years back failed. You may have heard of Mule Jats. Actually jats by temperament are very accommodating. That is why they say " JAT GANDA NA DE BHELI DEDE"! Try to find the background/ origin of this proverb.

In view of above I will recommend that your friends visit the website as guests as many times as they wish. They should be mentally prepared to find some material of not their taste. If they are your true friends, which I hope they are, they will have room for that stuff in the framework of their minds particularly because within them they must be having many of the kind you have as your strongest opponents (on this issue ,off course) on the Jatland.

I have tried to put things in a different perspective. I do hope Atul sees a point. I will also request others to remove the offensive contents from their respective posts because hatred helps no one. Hatred is a baby that murders its mother (as Shakespeare put for error).

Thanks! As I felt ! No offence!
 
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thanks for bringing it to a meaningful discussion.

I too feel that Atul is misunderstood ,he is an intelligent,analytical person and his ideas can be discussed without getting angry.

First of all let me put forward the information what Deswal ji sought about jats of pakistan.

Though Islam does not recognise casts so does hinduism and sikhism,what ever cast system followed in hindhu religion to my view is not related to religion but propogated as a social evil by vested interests.

pakistani jats are a very proud jat community,who always are proud of their race and they strictly follow marrige custom of gotras as we hindhu jats do,they avoid three or four gotr of father mother etc unlike other muslims as we do here ,this jat custom to your surprise is followed by even romanian jats.

If we see from historical point of view pakistani jats have traditionaly supported native forces wether Sikh as in the case of raja ranjit singh against their own co-religion muslims or other groups,this is in strange contrast to some other groups as rajputs muslims who have always supported mughals and other invaders.pakistani jats gave such a firce fight to taimur,mahmud Ghajnvi and other arabs that these invaders always talks of jat resistance only in their historical records.

This may be an indiaction of their bondage to native land that jat premier of punjab sindh and chottu ram fought against partition where as rajput rulers of all rajputana states except one of Mewar tried their best to unite with pakistan when choice was offered to states to join india or pakistan.This speaks volume about where their heart lies india or pakistan.

However pakistani jats are more attached to religion as compared to hindhu jats,which is due to nature of islam religion.

Pakistani jats have total political domination in punjab and is a very strong force in sindh however jats of nwfp and belochistan are not so dominating.

This was just to give an idea about co brothers of another faith.

In my personal view I am against their joining as all members don't think so and secondly some members who may not be jats may use jatland to attack their religion which will create a wrong impression on them about their hindhu jat brethern.So it is always advisable to let them come and enjoy this site as visitors.
 
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mein ek he baat janta hoon jo jat kisi bhi karan se dusre darm ko apnaya hai woh jat hone like nai tha aur uske liye hume koi hum dardi na rakhte huai ish topic ko khatm karna

aur yeh baat her hindu per laago hoti, hitiyash janta hai logone mouth ko apnaya hai lekin muslim daram ko nai .


agar kisi history padi hai toh

SIVAJI MAHARAJ ko sab jante hai jinke pitah ko aurngjeb ne pakd liya aur ushne muslim darm lene kaha lekin unhone mouth ko apnaya

PAK ke un jaton ko koi adhikar nai hai apne aap ko muslim jat kahne mr. ATUL band kro ish ghatiya topic ko(Warning !!!!!)

MAHADEV ki sogand agar koi esha humare samne kare toh ya toh woh nai ya hum nai



JAI HIND JAI JAT
 
Just do it

Atul Jhajharia bhai now that mostpeople want to close the topic, you might as well do it.
The point is very clear, there is no strong similarity as long as they are muslims. And all non muslims , Jats included, are naturally wary of Islamic fundamentalism. Human beings are basically good natured, thats why your muslim acquintances may be gentle hearted and helping. But as long as they are following Islamic ideology, there are very 2 bright chances of somebody getting brainwashed into root Islamic immorality. Ever tried to speak to them about prophet's exploits and teachings ? ??????

Let the case rest now
 
kaya baat hai,.......wo nahi ya ham nahi.........josh aa gaya bhai!

Subash ji this is a simple discussion,don't take it as a war.

If you don't like it, you gave your openion that's all,what is the need to give warning...?

Second apne to hitiash bhaut pada hai can you please tell us who was Gokul jat ,he was cut to piecies one by one whether his son who was a child at that time has the right to call himself a jat ,yes he had to change his religion to muslim.

who was dharam singh jat he offered his head for sacrifice to sikh guru for hindhus ,whether his sikh sons have right to call them jats?

Since I know that you are good in history than you might be knowing that almost all of northern India was buddhist who knows how many of our ancestors were budhist,since they adopted hindhu religion ,should we hate our ancestors also?

No muslim jat asked our sympathy ,we are happy here they are happy there.

Atul asked some questions we can give our openion or avoid it as I gave mine NO.
no offence meant ,pls be cool.
 
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Sampuran bhai

You mentioned two points.

vary of Islamic fundamentalism....Yes we are.

No strong similarity.... .........

same customs same traditions common ancesstor,common history.....what you call this light similarity.

Sorry I beg to differ with you on this count.
 
no similarities with muslim jat

We have some muslim jat families in our village. and I do not see any similarities in our custom and their custom.

yes, they used to use choudhary before thier name but now they have stopped that too.

they want to be known as muslim and not just jat. they marry with their cusin like other muslim do.

we protect cow...they kill it. they celebrate their festival and we celebrate ours.

Where is the similarity?
 
Welcome Arun,

Sorry I will say you are wrong.

Please revarify your facts as every muslim jat site says not to talk of cousins they even don't marry in their gotr even.

I don't know about your village but pakistani jat use chaudhary as chaudhary sujjat hussain choudhary parvej illahi etc.
 
When we start finding dissimilarity we can find more dissimilarity between jats and brahmans or jats and bania and jats and gujar etc.

Infact even two brothers are not entirely similar.

By the way Do you know that brahmans in south marry their own cousins?
 
narenderkharb said:
Welcome Arun,

Sorry I will say you are wrong.

Please revarify your facts as every muslim jat site says not to talk of cousins they even don't marry in their gotr even.

I don't know about your village but pakistani jat use chaudhary as chaudhary sujjat hussain choudhary parvej illahi etc.
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what I had written was 100% correct....I was not wrong...

and yes, muslim do marry with their cousin. bua and mama kee ladki bhee cousin hee hoti hain...and muslim do marry with bua and mama kee ladki.

I do not know what is your source of information but I am telling you what I have seen.

muslim jats marry with their bua and mama kee ladki. Hindu jat do not do that.
 
narenderkharb said:
When we start finding dissimilarity we can find more dissimilarity between jats and brahmans or jats and bania and jats and gujar etc.

Infact even two brothers are not entirely similar.

By the way Do you know that brahmans in south marry their own cousins?
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Yes, I know in south India mama bhatiji se shadi kar sakta hai.....

but I thought we were talking about jat and muslim jat only....ye Brahamn kahan se beech me aa gaye...

and yes you are right, we are different form Bania, Brahaman ..Gujar and everybody else.....and hence from Muslim jat also.

I agree with you that we should not hate any one....just because they belong to a differnt religion/caste/race....and that include BRAHAMANS also...
 
When you go for segregation it ends only you.

When we start finding dissimilarity it ends only on us.

dear brahmans are as dear to us as any other group except jats which are more dear.

In fact I DO AGREE THAT BRAHMANS HAVE GIVEN A UNITARY SOUL TO INDIA.

pls be clear on that point.
 
arunshamli said:
Yes, I know in south India mama bhatiji se shadi kar sakta hai.....

but I thought we were talking about jat and muslim jat only....ye Brahamn kahan se beech me aa gaye...
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I does not mean to include those jats who have stopped calling themselves jat!

The maula jat you are talking about are completely assimliated into Islam.

There is no question to incude them!

But if some muslim jat takes more pride in calling himself jat, we should include him!

I am appaled by views of my Jat Bros here!

Nobody wants to reason!

Some are telling me to drop this matter!

Are you all nuts!

You cant even discuss here freely??

Open your mind before it becomes too late!!


Someone even suggested if muslim jats come on this forum, hindu jats may be inclined to convert.
If you are so weak then it will happen anyhow! If not to Islam then that person will convert to Christianity or any other religion!

hidhayal said:
mr. ATUL band kro ish ghatiya topic ko(Warning !!!!!)

MAHADEV ki sogand agar koi esha humare samne kare toh ya toh woh nai ya hum nai
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Mr. Subhas dayal even has audacity to write his stupid comments!! Who is this *whacko* who issues *warning* to other members.

Are you *whacko* equivalent of mullahs and issuing fatwa against me!!

Shame on Moderators if they let these things happen here.

hidhayal said:
PAK ke un jaton ko koi adhikar nai hai apne aap ko muslim jat kahne
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Aww....and you *whacko* will decide who has right to call himself Jat!!

Think of the person whose idea was to create our caste Jat!

Think of his effort!

Think how he must have untied all different small tribes!

And then think your dirty *whacko* thinking!!
 
Sorry Atul

Don't try to rewrite a false history.

There was no idea to create our race JAT by uniting different tribes as happened with rajput and brahmans(arun don't mind).

who gave this brilliant idea?

We have been jats from begining with different surnames.

pls don't take it otherwise..

I too have started doubting what exactly you want?
 
narenderkharb said:
Sorry Atul

Don't try to rewrite a false history.

There was no idea to create our race JAT by uniting different tribes as happened with rajput and brahmans(arun don't mind).

who gave this brilliant idea?

We have been jats from begining with different surnames.

pls don't take it otherwise..

I too have started doubting what exactly you want?
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Then give me one possible way our caste jat was made.

To me evry caste in this world was made out of other caste or by combining small tribes.

I dont see any other way to make caste.

If you have to make caste today then how you will do it!

At some point of time there must be some criteria with which we were classified as jats.

Other reason could be like jat is variant of Goth and seperated from them.

or may be we are gypsies!

Whatever we are, or whatever be our origin there must be something common!!

Also i am not rewriting anything, to me it does not make any difference!!

I am Jat and thats all!

wether we were emperor or the farmer!

Saint or the warrior!

Everything is same to me now!

we have to write History now!

If we are not even able to analyze things, our caste may not reach to the height it deserves!

Note: I will tell you my fathers version of origin of Jat :p Dont laugh :-

He told me that Jat was a great warrior from Central Asia, He came to India and married some princess's. He was most handsome of all and powerful.

His sons were called Jats.

Does that appeal to you guys!
I still consider this as truth and will tell same story to my children. :p
 
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