National Interest
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navingulia
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Friends, the hutch/vodafone marathon is on sunday. though at a different venue, the route passes by india gate
should we postpone it to evening 4.30pm. or same timme next sunday?
should we postpone it to evening 4.30pm. or same timme next sunday?
Makes sense... Let us look at next week, the Sunday on 3rd of November as it will give us time to prepare and inform people
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navingulia
New member
yes, sunday 4th november 10.30am
Sunday 4th November - 12:00 confirmed
Would request everyone to forward the mail to all their friends:
_________________________________________________________________
The civilian nuclear deal was something which any country would die for.
Pakistan begged for it but was not granted.
CPM which choses to lick the feet of chinese (who backstabbed us in 1962) has successfully sabotaged the deal.
And the whole nation is mute spectator.
After all who is bothered about national interest or national pride or national shame. We are more bothered about the extra bucks we can earn today.
We think we do enough patriotism by jumping madly in a cricket stadium. That is the best we can do. Shame on us.
The tragedy of this country is that the educated chose to be quiet.
People are gathering at India Gate on November 4th, 2007 at 12:00 AM to create awareness and support the Nuke Deal...
Please come and pass on the message ahead to others too...
Please pass on the message to others
Can we put some + & - point of this deal.
Please put some positive and nagative points of this deal to satisfy the people to support this deal.
Please put some positive and nagative points of this deal to satisfy the people to support this deal.
Sunday 4th November - 12:00 confirmed
Would request everyone to forward the mail to all their friends:
_________________________________________________________________
The civilian nuclear deal was something which any country would die for.
Pakistan begged for it but was not granted.
CPM which choses to lick the feet of chinese (who backstabbed us in 1962) has successfully sabotaged the deal.
And the whole nation is mute spectator.
After all who is bothered about national interest or national pride or national shame. We are more bothered about the extra bucks we can earn today.
We think we do enough patriotism by jumping madly in a cricket stadium. That is the best we can do. Shame on us.
The tragedy of this country is that the educated chose to be quiet.
People are gathering at India Gate on November 4th, 2007 at 12:00 AM to create awareness and support the Nuke Deal...
Please come and pass on the message ahead to others too...
Please pass on the message to others
navingulia
New member
Karamveer sir
priti had started a thread in which this discussion had taken place. The link given below
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21815&highlight=nuclear
priti had started a thread in which this discussion had taken place. The link given below
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21815&highlight=nuclear
sidchhikara
New member
All of you are doing a commendable job. Hope this gets some airtime.
Pros and Cons of deal
Cons(arguments against)
The deal is likely to abet the nuclear weapon capabilities of India. For, if civil and military facilities are separated, the supply of international nuclear fuel will free its existing facilities, designated as military facilities, to produce plutonium and enriched plutonium exclusively for weapons’ purpose.
The deal might provoke other nuclear weapon states like China to enter into the same kind of agreement with other implicit nuclear nations like Pakistan. In fact, Pakistan President Musharraf, during his recent visit to China, has argued for a Pakistan-China nuclear deal along the same lines.
India has still not signed the NPT treaty. But it will enjoy all the privileges available to declared nuclear powers under the NPT regime. In the eyes of American non-proliferation lobby the nuclear deal is an American sellout to India.
Arguments against the deal in India have centred around three main points. First and foremost, the proposed separation of nuclear facilities into civil and military is costly and difficult or rather impractical due to the Indian nuclear programme being unified since the very beginning. Secondly, the deal will impact India’s ability to produce requisite fissile material as all new nuclear facilities will be civilian in nature and under the supervision of IAEA. Third, nuclear power is costly in nature and an emerging county like India can ill afford it. It is a luxury that only the developed world can enjoy and India should not count on it in its energy security calculus. Last but not the least, the deal is asymmetrical in nature since it is all about American promises and Indian commitments.
Finally, the deal does not remove the discriminatory nature of the present nuclear regime which India has been fighting all along. Why should India place all its “existing and future civilian nuclear facilities under IAEA supervision” when other nuclear powers are not compelled to do so? In terms of statistics, out of the 915 facilities under IAEA safeguards worldwide, only 11 are in the five NPT nuclear powers. Thus, India will continue to be a part of the discriminatory non-proliferation regime.
Pros(arguments for)
First, to answer the proliferation charge, the present deal is a win-win situation for the non-proliferation regime since it brings India into the nuclear mainstream. All the past policies to bring India into NPT regime had failed. Then why not give the deal a chance? India, despite being a declared nuclear power, has an impeccable non-proliferation record that needs to be trusted and rewarded rather than questioned and punished. As India’s Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran said, “If India’s past record and current policies are not recognised, and worse still, if it is to be graded with those whose record in this respect is more than suspect, then our nonproliferation objectives may enjoy the comfort of noble intentions but not the efficacy of tactical action.”
Second, India is a fast growing economy that is looking for all the energy resources that it can get hold of, howsoever costly they may be. True, the nuclear establishment has failed to meet its commitment of producing 2,700 megawatts of electricity from nuclear plants by 1980-81. It is roughly producing the same committed amount about thirty-five years later that constitutes three percent of India’s energy supply. The denial of nuclear fuel due to provisions of the NPT regime has been precisely the reason behind the Indian nuclear establishment’s dismal performance. History has given us the chance and we must seize it. If international nuclear fuel is available, the cost of producing electricity will also come down and will be within the affordable range.
Third, there is nothing in the deal that asks India not to pursue its three-phase nuclear power programme. In fact, it further adds to the process. India can continue to pursue its fast-breeder reactor programme independently.
Fourth, India will get access to all the facilities and technologies available to declared nuclear powers in the NPT regime without signing the treaty.
Fifth, India has not given any commitment to sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, which even US and China have signed, though both are yet to ratify it. The only commitment that India has given is that of negotiating a Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty with the US.
Sixth, India is not under any obligation to not produce fissile material and can continue to do so as long as it needs, to meet its declared policy of developing credible minimum nuclear deterrence.
Seventh, there is no provision in the deal that asks India to place its indigenously developed nuclear reactors under IAEA supervision. The deal is applicable only in the case of existing and future nuclear reactors that will be using international nuclear fuel. Technically, India can build up as many indigenous nuclear reactors as it wants for its security purposes.
Finally, to quote the Indian Prime Minister, “It will be an autonomous Indian decision as to what is ‘civilian’ and what is ‘military’. Nobody outside will tell us what is ‘civilian’ and what is ‘military’.” We have no reason to distrust the words of our Prime Minister
Source - http://skbwriter.blogspot.com/2007/10/nuclear-dealpros-and-cons.html
Cons(arguments against)
The deal is likely to abet the nuclear weapon capabilities of India. For, if civil and military facilities are separated, the supply of international nuclear fuel will free its existing facilities, designated as military facilities, to produce plutonium and enriched plutonium exclusively for weapons’ purpose.
The deal might provoke other nuclear weapon states like China to enter into the same kind of agreement with other implicit nuclear nations like Pakistan. In fact, Pakistan President Musharraf, during his recent visit to China, has argued for a Pakistan-China nuclear deal along the same lines.
India has still not signed the NPT treaty. But it will enjoy all the privileges available to declared nuclear powers under the NPT regime. In the eyes of American non-proliferation lobby the nuclear deal is an American sellout to India.
Arguments against the deal in India have centred around three main points. First and foremost, the proposed separation of nuclear facilities into civil and military is costly and difficult or rather impractical due to the Indian nuclear programme being unified since the very beginning. Secondly, the deal will impact India’s ability to produce requisite fissile material as all new nuclear facilities will be civilian in nature and under the supervision of IAEA. Third, nuclear power is costly in nature and an emerging county like India can ill afford it. It is a luxury that only the developed world can enjoy and India should not count on it in its energy security calculus. Last but not the least, the deal is asymmetrical in nature since it is all about American promises and Indian commitments.
Finally, the deal does not remove the discriminatory nature of the present nuclear regime which India has been fighting all along. Why should India place all its “existing and future civilian nuclear facilities under IAEA supervision” when other nuclear powers are not compelled to do so? In terms of statistics, out of the 915 facilities under IAEA safeguards worldwide, only 11 are in the five NPT nuclear powers. Thus, India will continue to be a part of the discriminatory non-proliferation regime.
Pros(arguments for)
First, to answer the proliferation charge, the present deal is a win-win situation for the non-proliferation regime since it brings India into the nuclear mainstream. All the past policies to bring India into NPT regime had failed. Then why not give the deal a chance? India, despite being a declared nuclear power, has an impeccable non-proliferation record that needs to be trusted and rewarded rather than questioned and punished. As India’s Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran said, “If India’s past record and current policies are not recognised, and worse still, if it is to be graded with those whose record in this respect is more than suspect, then our nonproliferation objectives may enjoy the comfort of noble intentions but not the efficacy of tactical action.”
Second, India is a fast growing economy that is looking for all the energy resources that it can get hold of, howsoever costly they may be. True, the nuclear establishment has failed to meet its commitment of producing 2,700 megawatts of electricity from nuclear plants by 1980-81. It is roughly producing the same committed amount about thirty-five years later that constitutes three percent of India’s energy supply. The denial of nuclear fuel due to provisions of the NPT regime has been precisely the reason behind the Indian nuclear establishment’s dismal performance. History has given us the chance and we must seize it. If international nuclear fuel is available, the cost of producing electricity will also come down and will be within the affordable range.
Third, there is nothing in the deal that asks India not to pursue its three-phase nuclear power programme. In fact, it further adds to the process. India can continue to pursue its fast-breeder reactor programme independently.
Fourth, India will get access to all the facilities and technologies available to declared nuclear powers in the NPT regime without signing the treaty.
Fifth, India has not given any commitment to sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, which even US and China have signed, though both are yet to ratify it. The only commitment that India has given is that of negotiating a Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty with the US.
Sixth, India is not under any obligation to not produce fissile material and can continue to do so as long as it needs, to meet its declared policy of developing credible minimum nuclear deterrence.
Seventh, there is no provision in the deal that asks India to place its indigenously developed nuclear reactors under IAEA supervision. The deal is applicable only in the case of existing and future nuclear reactors that will be using international nuclear fuel. Technically, India can build up as many indigenous nuclear reactors as it wants for its security purposes.
Finally, to quote the Indian Prime Minister, “It will be an autonomous Indian decision as to what is ‘civilian’ and what is ‘military’. Nobody outside will tell us what is ‘civilian’ and what is ‘military’.” We have no reason to distrust the words of our Prime Minister
Source - http://skbwriter.blogspot.com/2007/10/nuclear-dealpros-and-cons.html
i will put across a word among all my friends in media.. quite sure they will cover it
sidchhikara
New member
more power to you.
Are we Sure we need Deal?
I just want to know "is it Sure we need deal"? If we need then why PM and its team didnt take all its ally party in confidence before announcement and giving word to American's? what i am getting here is Congress is getting this deal to proove themselves Good. And i dont think we need any surveilance to even our Civil facilities.do you want it?
If US wants deal then its OK we can say we will not use thier fuel to make missile. If they think we will keep our words then ok othrewise HELL WITH THE US AND HELL WITH CONGRESS.OUR SCIENTIST WILL GET THIER RESOURCE AND MAKE A WAY. TODAY WE WILL DEPEND ON THEIR FUEL SOURCE TOMORROW U.S.A WILL CONTROL OUR POWER HOUSE. WE CAN BUY A NUCLEAR FUEL. IF U.S.A WANT TO SELL OK OTHER WISE NO DEAL.
And I dont say ABORT the deal but do ANY OF YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF DEAL'S CLAUSE AND IMPACT. SO FIRST CHECK IT THEN SAY "WE SUPPORT THE DEAL". and do you think which PM and party didnt tell anything about the deal to their ally they told us truth!!!!!. WAKE UP BOYS.
I just want to know "is it Sure we need deal"? If we need then why PM and its team didnt take all its ally party in confidence before announcement and giving word to American's? what i am getting here is Congress is getting this deal to proove themselves Good. And i dont think we need any surveilance to even our Civil facilities.do you want it?
If US wants deal then its OK we can say we will not use thier fuel to make missile. If they think we will keep our words then ok othrewise HELL WITH THE US AND HELL WITH CONGRESS.OUR SCIENTIST WILL GET THIER RESOURCE AND MAKE A WAY. TODAY WE WILL DEPEND ON THEIR FUEL SOURCE TOMORROW U.S.A WILL CONTROL OUR POWER HOUSE. WE CAN BUY A NUCLEAR FUEL. IF U.S.A WANT TO SELL OK OTHER WISE NO DEAL.
And I dont say ABORT the deal but do ANY OF YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF DEAL'S CLAUSE AND IMPACT. SO FIRST CHECK IT THEN SAY "WE SUPPORT THE DEAL". and do you think which PM and party didnt tell anything about the deal to their ally they told us truth!!!!!. WAKE UP BOYS.
I think post the pros and cons mentioned above all of know what does this deal mean to India and we all have already woken up
yatinder19
New member
Kadyan saab
you have valid reasons...But I suspect capability of our government and our scientist,they havent done anything on time(I mean on mostly occasion)...
DRDO has turned in to white elephant.....
Enegy need is immediate,We cant wait for our scientist to take so many years and they will spnd so much...
"To go hell with US" will never help....If we are geting profit from deal than wats the problem...
Good to hear all are awake.I think post the pros and cons mentioned above all of know what does this deal mean to India and we all have already woken up
But Issue remains why congress and PM are not able to come to a conclusion with their allies. Is'nt it strange that they are not able to get confidence from a single other party and they were not also taking it much seriously earlier.
And believe me this is all because of PM and congress keeping it at low profile till there is not objection from other parties. They want to keep all credit of this to themselves. now this things got back fired them and its not going work now. Inefficient congress know the fate of mid term poll and they wont take any risk iwth it right now.
So keep your vote ready to choose a power hungary congress or dangerous CPI kind party.
And no need to go on hunger strike Navin as we have to suffer if these kind of political people will rule us . Now we have to fight with our own people.
Do USA want to HELP?
What will they do if we Gonna be super power. They will supply us fuel ? no way. we are going toward be a super power and we have to be our won master and dont depend on other atleast not have their Supervision.
If they want to sell something buy it.
if they want to make a collaboration then work together.
but why they will sit in our facility to check we are doing ok with their resource.
and they are making us dependent on them.I think this nuclear fuel can be open market only problem is with USA and some developed nation that they dont want it to be.
They know its going that nuclear power usage will increase in all countries so it want their supervision in all these power stations. so that USA will not have any threat to them but all other have fear to them.
may be i am wrong but its look like this!!!
You are right yatinder that our scintist are not good but believe me they will not even be traceable after dependence on US. They suck like hell.
What will they do if we Gonna be super power. They will supply us fuel ? no way. we are going toward be a super power and we have to be our won master and dont depend on other atleast not have their Supervision.
If they want to sell something buy it.
if they want to make a collaboration then work together.
but why they will sit in our facility to check we are doing ok with their resource.
and they are making us dependent on them.I think this nuclear fuel can be open market only problem is with USA and some developed nation that they dont want it to be.
They know its going that nuclear power usage will increase in all countries so it want their supervision in all these power stations. so that USA will not have any threat to them but all other have fear to them.
may be i am wrong but its look like this!!!
navingulia
New member
a doubt can destroy a resolution in a second
that is how we destroy our patriotism too by doubts like "kya rakkha hai deshbhakti mein? kuchh nahin hai, sab matlabi hain"
america se deal mat karo, pakistan ka kuchh mat karo, bangladesh waale aapke sipaahiyon ko maar dete hain (aur aap gahan vishleshan me lag jaate hain), china apko jab man karta hai dhamka deta hai, aur to aur sri lanka bhi kah deta hai ke hum india ke tukde kar denge.
india aaj india hai japan, germany, chin ya america nahin ban saka kyunki ghutne kamjor hain, na faisla le paate hain aur na uspe tik paate hain.
mere man me aksar aata hai ke is desh ko dynamic kaise banaaun. yahaan ek aadmi kuchh karna chaahta hai to 10 log sawaal uthaa dete hain.
mere jeevan ki yahi seekh hai ke sahi faisle lene se jyada jaruuri hota hai sincerity se faisla lena.
yadi aap sahi galat ka hi tark karne lagenge to pura jeevan bhi kam pad jaayega.
pragatisheel hone ka niyam hai ke jo kuchh achha kiya ja raha hai agar us se aap kuchh aur achha kar sakte hain to keejiye. otherwise hoti hui cheez kki taang mat kheenchiye.
that is how we destroy our patriotism too by doubts like "kya rakkha hai deshbhakti mein? kuchh nahin hai, sab matlabi hain"
america se deal mat karo, pakistan ka kuchh mat karo, bangladesh waale aapke sipaahiyon ko maar dete hain (aur aap gahan vishleshan me lag jaate hain), china apko jab man karta hai dhamka deta hai, aur to aur sri lanka bhi kah deta hai ke hum india ke tukde kar denge.
india aaj india hai japan, germany, chin ya america nahin ban saka kyunki ghutne kamjor hain, na faisla le paate hain aur na uspe tik paate hain.
mere man me aksar aata hai ke is desh ko dynamic kaise banaaun. yahaan ek aadmi kuchh karna chaahta hai to 10 log sawaal uthaa dete hain.
mere jeevan ki yahi seekh hai ke sahi faisle lene se jyada jaruuri hota hai sincerity se faisla lena.
yadi aap sahi galat ka hi tark karne lagenge to pura jeevan bhi kam pad jaayega.
pragatisheel hone ka niyam hai ke jo kuchh achha kiya ja raha hai agar us se aap kuchh aur achha kar sakte hain to keejiye. otherwise hoti hui cheez kki taang mat kheenchiye.
navingulia
New member
apna to pata nahin per haan cheen aur pakistan jaruur khush hoenge agar ye deal nahin workout hui to.
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