Need Hope.......Please Help.....!

U

uditnhe

New member
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VPON6RHIjvc

I saw this video on someone's FB page today and it really made me think. How do we treat our women?and how do we bring up our buys?

Also can't help but see the guy in the bad pagri in the beginning as every tau or pitaji in Haryana or any Jat family. Maybe they don't literally sit you down and tell you this, but this exactly how we are 'taught' since we are young.

The son can stay out till late, daughter has to come back home the moment the tuition finishes.......the son can drive to college alone, the daughter has to be dropped by the brother or dad and the list goes on.

Of course the issue that how treat our women is a huge question, but just as much troubling is the fact that when ever I hear about honour killings or rapes or molestation my first thought is 'jat hoonge'.

I defend my heritage and community against an outsider with the ferocity of a pitbull, but recently I have the feeling that slowly there is less and less to defend.

I am not complaining, I am just hoping someone will restore some hope.....maybe even slap(only electronically) in me.

Need hope, please help

PS: Nothing against Taus and Pitajis, have great taujis and had a great father and love and respect all of them.
 
uditnhe said:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VPON6RHIjvc

I saw this video on someone's FB page today and it really made me think. How do we treat our women?and how do we bring up our buys?

Also can't help but see the guy in the bad pagri in the beginning as every tau or pitaji in Haryana or any Jat family. Maybe they don't literally sit you down and tell you this, but this exactly how we are 'taught' since we are young.

The son can stay out till late, daughter has to come back home the moment the tuition finishes.......the son can drive to college alone, the daughter has to be dropped by the brother or dad and the list goes on.

Of course the issue that how treat our women is a huge question, but just as much troubling is the fact that when ever I hear about honour killings or rapes or molestation my first thought is 'jat hoonge'.

I defend my heritage and community against an outsider with the ferocity of a pitbull, but recently I have the feeling that slowly there is less and less to defend.

I am not complaining, I am just hoping someone will restore some hope.....maybe even slap(only electronically) in me.

Need hope, please help

PS: Nothing against Taus and Pitajis, have great taujis and had a great father and love and respect all of them.
Click to expand...

Get out of feminist agenda as soon as possible.
 
Help yourself:

Go through this thread: [h=2]Kareena Kapoor and Malaika Arora Khan equally responsible for the death of Damini[/h]http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?35416-Kareena-Kapoor-and-Malaika-Arora-Khan-equally-responsible-for-the-death-of-Damini
 
atishmohan said:
Help yourself:

Go through this thread: Kareena Kapoor and Malaika Arora Khan equally responsible for the death of Damini

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...n-equally-responsible-for-the-death-of-Damini
Click to expand...

I read a few of the replies in the thread, but sadly the thread itself began with a word that any woman doest deserve 'cheap'. Most of the post was full of the same highhandedness towards women that needs to be addressed.

USA, Italy, France and some other Central European countries have television and movies that are far more explicit then Indian media, but women are not raped/treated there as they are in India. I think we need to stop blaming others and for a change take responsibility. Although I do agree what we see also has a role to play in our mindsets and behaviour.
 
uditnhe said:
USA, Italy, France and some other Central European countries have television and movies that are far more explicit then Indian media, but women are not raped/treated there as they are in India.
Click to expand...

You are mistaken, read that thread properly. I have posted several stats about Rapes in UK and US which are far greater than India
 
Udit,

Firstly, the thread that is being referred to just raised one aspect of the problem/evil in the society or the direction that the society is taking unfortunately because of what a few cheap people are spreading in the society and thereby playing their roles in making all the nudity, vulgarity and filth acceptable. It called a few women as cheap because those women are objectionably and irresponsibly objectifying the entire women community as something that can be bought off the shelf. I hope you have heard the numbers "Munni Badnaam hui", Fevicol se chipkai lio, mein tandoori murgi", etc, etc. And mind you these cheap women and the equally cheap directors, producers, lyric writers are not doing it for social service or some cause - They are doing this disservice to the entire women community in particular and the society in general for the lust for MONEY.

For God's sake, let's stop commoditising women and raise our voices against such commoditisation. Women are more than just pretty faces and beautiful bodies and they have proved themselves by excelling in almost all fields. There is life beyond removing clothes to the bare undergarments in public.

The nudity as mentioned above and in the thread referred to earlier is just one aspect of the problem. Equally important are other aspects such as change in the mindset of the sick animals (that women are not a commodity item) and women (that liberty and modernity does not come with going nude in public). There need to be harsher laws and their effective implementation.

I would ask you a question - would you appreciate the children (adolescents and growing up) in your family to dance merrily to "Munni badnaam hui" and "fevicol se chipkai lio, mein toh tandoori murgi", etc. etc? If your answer is yes, then I have nothing more to say or add.

For once, let's all come out of this hypocrite mould and say not only to the sick animals but also the cheapsters in other arenas that enough is enough - Let's give the future generations a clean and healthy environment so that they grow up as responsible citizens and pass it on to their future generations.

As per you, there are no or less instances/incidents of sexual violence in the US/Europe (Western societies) despite explicit depiction of sex in their movies/TV programs. This is factually incorrect. Please refer to the statistics that have been put forth by fellow members in the above mentioned thread.

uditnhe said:
I read a few of the replies in the thread, but sadly the thread itself began with a word that any woman doest deserve 'cheap'. Most of the post was full of the same highhandedness towards women that needs to be addressed.

USA, Italy, France and some other Central European countries have television and movies that are far more explicit then Indian media, but women are not raped/treated there as they are in India. I think we need to stop blaming others and for a change take responsibility. Although I do agree what we see also has a role to play in our mindsets and behaviour.
Click to expand...
 
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desijat said:
You are mistaken, read that thread properly. I have posted several stats about Rapes in UK and US which are far greater than India
Click to expand...

I agree....there are rapes happening in other countries too, but there a short skirt is not an invitation, women are not property of their husbands, fathers and brothers. This is my point exactly......we keep hiding behind excuses, we are not willing to accept that we are to blame here. I think we should stop pointing fingers.

Also please bare in mind that in india the percentage of rapes reported to the no of rapes actually happening are very very low and conviction on the those reported is less than 10%. However the rapes reported in the countries you mentioned are much higher, so to say 'vahan bhi rapes hote hain' is a very missinformed statement in itself.
 
AbhikRana said:
Udit,

Firstly, the thread that is being referred to just raised one aspect of the problem/evil in the society or the direction that the society is taking unfortunately because of what a few cheap people are spreading in the society and thereby playing their roles in making all the nudity, vulgarity and filth acceptable. It called a few women as cheap because those women are objectionably and irresponsibly objectifying the entire women community as something that can be bought off the shelf. I hope you have heard the numbers "Munni Badnaam hui", Fevicol se chipkai lio, mein tandoori murgi", etc, etc. And mind you these cheap women and the equally cheap directors, producers, lyric writers are not doing it for social service or some cause - They are doing this disservice to the entire women community in particular and the society in general for the lust for MONEY.

For God's sake, let's stop commoditising women and raise our voices against such commoditisation. Women are more than just pretty faces and beautiful bodies and they have proved themselves by excelling in almost all fields. There is life beyond removing clothes to the bare undergarments in public.

The nudity as mentioned above and in the thread referred to earlier is just one aspect of the problem. Equally important are other aspects such as change in the mindset of the sick animals (that women are not a commodity item) and women (that liberty and modernity does not come with going nude in public). There need to be harsher laws and their effective implementation.

I would ask you a question - would you appreciate the children (adolescents and growing up) in your family to dance merrily to "Munni badnaam hui" and "fevicol se chipkai lio, mein toh tandoori murgi", etc. etc? If your answer is yes, then I have nothing more to say or add.

For once, let's all come out of this hypocrite mould and say not only to the sick animals but also the cheapsters in other arenas that enough is enough - Let's give the future generations a clean and healthy environment so that they grow up as responsible citizens and pass it on to their future generations.

As per you, there are no or less instances/incidents of sexual violence in the US/Europe (Western societies) despite explicit depiction of sex in their movies/TV programs. This is factually incorrect. Please refer to the statistics that have been put forth by fellow members in the above mentioned thread.
Click to expand...

I agree to the point that you make 'what we watch affects our mindset', but bare with this analogy:

There is a group of people that think eating non veg food is unreligious and inhuman, Hindu religion also teaches the same. If tomorrow all the restaurants and meat shops are closed you think non vegetarians will stop eating tandoori chickens and mutton roll?? Also lets stop these item songs, then what is your solution for porn?

5 item songs or even 20 item songs a year(and I agree they commoditise women and it should stop) are not the reason for our mindsets. It is a trigger to some extent, but not the reason for our actions. Also these actresses are serving a market demand, we demand it so they make it. Stop eating meat and the shops will close themselves. Address our mindsets and the behaviour will stop. We create rapists at home and not in cinema halls. Cinema halls might trigger their behaviour, but does not make them rape women.

And I strongly disagree with the way you are addressing these actresses. No woman is cheap even if she is dancing in such a song and I am afraid it is similar to the mentality 'choti skirt pehen ke club mein jati hai to easy ladki hai'. And if they are cheap then the huge Indian audience that watches these songs day in and day out, including women, children, youth and men are just as cheap. They don't force us to watch these songs, buy the tickets to cinemas and watch these movies. We love to watch these songs......both the movies made more than 100cr and Dabang 2 made 100cr in the first week itself.

And I never said there are no or less instances, in fact I never said anything about the quantum of instances in other countries. I said the mindsets there are not the same as we have for women in India. Please read it properly I request.

Lastly, I would most certainly want my children to be spared from such visual media, but it is hardly possible. In my house the people that love these songs are the women of the family and they a right to do so. If they love watching item songs, I am no one to say otherwise.
 
समर जी क्या इस बिन्दु पर थोड़ा प्रकाश डालेंगे कि उपरोक्त पंक्तियों मे कोन सा फेमिनिस्ट अजेंडा है, जिससे बचने कि सलाह आप दे रहे हैं? क्या आप ये कहना चाह रहे हैं कि नारिवाद मे अंतर्निहित खतरे हैं जिनसे बचा जाना चाहिए?? यदि ऐसा है तो कृपया करके हम सभी को उन खतरो से अवगत अवशय करवाएँ॰।
Samarkadian said:
Get out of feminist agenda as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
 
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Some how the link was not working at my end :(

"when ever I hear about honour killings or rapes or molestation my first thought is 'jat hoonge'"

No offence - dear u deserve slap for same ( on lighter note ) . When I was a kid i was told by some one , when it comes to trust there is certain hierarchy :
1- Family and Close friends
2- Village
3- Community

Yar don't u think u r degrading us by saying " Jaat hi honge " , If we won't trust " US " then aur kya khak karenge .

Now-your question : In agreement , however things are changing .
Nowadays parents scold their sons as well for late coming and gals get liberty to go to school/college of their own . So many things changed -though little still it does leave some impact . Yar if we compare how were women treated a decade back and now ---u would see huge difference .

Dear-----be Optimist-----being pessimist is a way to darkness
 
Samarkadian said:
Get out of feminist agenda as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

Feminist? Agenda?

The only issue (big issue) with the video is that its stereotyping. That such attitudes only exist in families where the head wears a pagdi. This is the prevalent attitude across India cutting across castes, regions, classes and communities.

There is no agenda, feminist or otherwise, in exposing the hypocrisy of male chauvinism in the name of culture. Do you wish to stand for that?
 
rekhasmriti said:
Some how the link was not working at my end :(

"when ever I hear about honour killings or rapes or molestation my first thought is 'jat hoonge'"

No offence - dear u deserve slap for same ( on lighter note ) . When I was a kid i was told by some one , when it comes to trust there is certain hierarchy :
1- Family and Close friends
2- Village
3- Community

Yar don't u think u r degrading us by saying " Jaat hi honge " , If we won't trust " US " then aur kya khak karenge .

Now-your question : In agreement , however things are changing .
Nowadays parents scold their sons as well for late coming and gals get liberty to go to school/college of their own . So many things changed -though little still it does leave some impact . Yar if we compare how were women treated a decade back and now ---u would see huge difference .

Dear-----be Optimist-----being pessimist is a way to darkness
Click to expand...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VPON6RHIjvc

If this doesn't work search 'mere tharki india manpreet dhami' in YouTube.

About the trust issue.....I am always the guy who sees the glass half full, the eternal optimist. However I do feel that we should we able to take the emotion out of this situation and look at it objectively. There are many good things about us, but liberal thought is not one of them if we look at Jats as a community.

Let me clarify here' I am not talking about few urban families where things are different. I have been brought up in a similar set up and rules for guys and girls in my family are the same. But we can't say the same about the majority.
I am from Rohtak and things are not quite the same there as in my family in Delhi. And yes things are changing, but that is not good enough. There are some exceptions in my family too, some of my sisters are the boldest and most intelligent people you will meet and they have are doing what they want in their lives, but there are at best exceptions.

Let me give you a small example. About 8 years ago I was driving home from Rohtak with my mom and my chacha from my village. The way we talk to my father and mom is quite different then what my uncle is used to, so while talking to my mom during the drive I addressed her as 'yaar mummy.......' and the lecture that followed from my chacha about not using such words with my mother was almost as long as the drive from Rohtak to Delhi........which is about 2 hrs. Point in case there is a huge difference between the urbanised and rural Jat.

Know about the degrading part.....it is a sad truth, but a large no of people involved in those cases are jats. I mean how do you justify to an outsider when our people are saying rediciulous things like 'chowmein khaane se rapes hooten hai' and women should not carry mobile phones. I don't mean to degrade, i am a very proud Jat, just a few seconds short of pasting a huge 'JAT' sticker on my car, but we do need to look at this objectively......we have been collecting some really bad rep in the recent past and it is getting more and more difficult to defend it.

Lastly, I congratulate you for being the first and only person thus far who understood and wrote back about what I wanted to express in this thread......thanks for the hope :)
 
kapdal said:
Feminist? Agenda?

The only issue (big issue) with the video is that its stereotyping. That such attitudes only exist in families where the head wears a pagdi. This is the prevalent attitude across India cutting across castes, regions, classes and communities.

There is no agenda, feminist or otherwise, in exposing the hypocrisy of male chauvinism in the name of culture. Do you wish to stand for that?
Click to expand...

Agreed this is not exclusive to jats......it is there in all communities.
 
"yaar mummy"

Thanks for sharing incident , I m so used of this "Yar" -----I would be careful ( who wants to listen to 2 hrs lecture :)). Even someone has also pointed me on same .

Dear seen the video----I doubt aisa abhi bhi hota hai .
Yeh story if I go years back, not with us rather with other castes as well ------so its a much of Gender Bias issue .

I remember ek bar meri dadi ne kaha tha : Jat ke liye uski Maa , Behan n Beti sabse badhkar hoti hai , n for these relationships he can do anything .
Uss time I was a kid , now when i recall this quote I wonder where is " Spouse " placed.



 
desijat said:
You are mistaken, read that thread properly. I have posted several stats about Rapes in UK and US which are far greater than India
Click to expand...
That is because Rapes do not go unreported in developed countries comparing India. Also the laws defining rape are different in developed countries.
 
rekhasmriti said:
"yaar mummy"

Thanks for sharing incident , I m so used of this "Yar" -----I would be careful ( who wants to listen to 2 hrs lecture :)). Even someone has also pointed me on same .

Dear seen the video----I doubt aisa abhi bhi hota hai .
Yeh story if I go years back, not with us rather with other castes as well ------so its a much of Gender Bias issue .

I remember ek bar meri dadi ne kaha tha : Jat ke liye uski Maa , Behan n Beti sabse badhkar hoti hai , n for these relationships he can do anything .
Uss time I was a kid , now when i recall this quote I wonder where is " Spouse " placed.
Click to expand...

My intension was not to point you out, but this happened to me so I thought I should share. Of course after the lecture when we reached home my mom told me to be who I am and don't bother too much about what others have to say. I still address my mom the same way almost all of the time.

And of course the video is an exaggeration of the truth and that exactly never happens, but something quite similar to that happens in a lot of homes. Also it is not Jat specific I agree. Such behaviour is prevelant in urban, rural, rich, poor and all sorts of verticals in society. Just that the videos brings it out quite clearly.

Good point.....where was the spouse? Spouse was mostly to be used for working in the field and making kids. More boys the merrier :)
 
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