News Search: The Natwar Singh Affair (consolidated thread)

[narenderkharb]

Quote sampuran..

3. As FM, conducted himself like the poodle dog of a foreigner - Sonia. Hope we all remember how he accompnied Sonia to Russia and served as her personal secretary. People may know that this personal visit of Sonia was to wipe off the traces of her ill gotten money stacked in Swiss banks, that was likely to become public after old KGB records were scrutinised by a Russian commission.


You could have used better words for this best FM of INDIA so far but surely I can't expect better words from a person who portrays GURU Govalkar of RSS a great social revolutionary in league of CH.Chottu Ram.

And Please tell us how could you manage to find out this great secret of Sonia Natwar and her swiss bank accounts.Did these russians official gave you clue regarding this .But how you missed the bags of dollars sent to jehadis by dear FM Jaswant Singh.

Though RSS is famous for its propoganda machine but there should be a limit to this character assasination.

 

[raj2rif]

Firstly, I would like to thank you Col. Saheb for your respectable address to me. Secondly, when I said "respect and trust our leadership" I was referring to Jat Mahasabha leadership not Jat political leadership. Trusting "politicians" is like playing with fire with greater odds to get burned.

Dear Mahlawat Ji,
I agree with your views about trusting politicians. As far as Jat Mahasabha is concerned, I am of the opinion, that it also has its own political agenda/affiliations even though it may not be in writing or in the form of a manifesto. Whether or not Jat Mahasabha leadership is politically aligned or not in itself is a million dollar question. So, we leave this at that.

Coming to political leadership, to some extent I tend to agree with you that Jat thread alone may not be a sufficient condition to support a political leader, as a Jat may be crook too (as a matter of fact I have come across quite a few). But then we might ask how could a Jat crook become a leader? As we all know that most aspect of any system in India are caste oriented---political system is no exception. In that caste oriented system a Jat leader most probably has to emerge from Jat dominated areas and that is going to reflect on the whole community. What I am trying to point out is that the onus is on Jats what kind of political leaders they choose (although the Natwar Singh case is a bit of nomination).

No dispute on this point also. To become leader you need a basic intelligence and money. Some time itelligence and money get substituted by muscle power. Mr. Natwar Singh had both basic intelligence, money and on top of that a quality education and princely family back ground. Thus it is easier to become a leader. Further, our political system does work on caste basis, and off course the money. Some times very good candidate are left out because they don't have the money. I agree with you that we are responsible for those good candidates being left out in wilderness.

Now, it is also unfair to ask a Jat leader to pass a litmus test. What do we think of these politicians of other castes? Do we think they are people with honesty and moral? So, one might imagine how hard it would be to survive in indian system.

I don't think it is unfair to ask any leader whether Jat or non Jat to pass the litmus test. There are many people with moral, honesty and intigrity. Whether they have been able to come up the ladder? A good question to guess. I think there may be some of this breed also. However the problem is that many people are honest, because they did not get the opportunity to become dishonest. How many of them will remain honest when they have the opportunity to use public or government money to their personal use is again any one's guess. Each individual is different and would act differently in different situations.

The question here is that why Natwar Singh is being singled out and that too based on this barometer of "honesty". I think dumping Natwar Singh on that basis is quite lame. Personally, I think among the "Jat pack" he is one of the decent person and has had a relatively clean career. I believe (others very well might have different opinion) that Natwar Singh is not a crook. However, I do agree that in this Volker episode he did not show much sigh of either a mature politician or a seasoned diplomat---which one might have expected. Natwar Singh's behavior was childish at best. Has he handled it gracefully, the same Natwar Singh could have come out as a hero. If I may guess his "Jat ego" overhelmed him. This sort of behavor is not the first time I have observed from National Jat leaders, so, its not surprizing at all. There are quite a few precedents.

Anyway, question might be, was Natwar Singh the only person whom Volker solely named in his report? How come in the whole wide world Natwar Singh was only one Volker casualty? If one were to believe Volker report then there are so many Indian entities have benefitted directly and haven't paid any taxes, might have violated FERA rules which are more serious issues than a "reference" letter written by Natwar Singh on an AICC letter head. And AICC is by no means a govt. entity so, it doesn't even make it any abuse of public position.

Mr. Natwar Singh has been singled out, because it is he who is being discussed. The boss has to take the blame if things go wrong. As FM he was the boss of his own ministry. Another question you have answered yourself, by calling his behaviour childish. This behavious in itself questions his diplomatic and political wisdom and experience? Mr. Natwar Singh is a human being and I agree with the point that any one of us can make a mistake. But the question is that of intention and nature of mistake. I think in the entire episode Mr. Natwar Singh could have definitely done better.

I by no means trying to convince anyone for Natwar Singh or against any other leaders. I have no "personal or political" reason to drum myself for Natwar Singh either. I got involved myself in this discussion mostly because of a Jat in me and I considered the level of this issue is way above the local level issues like a local road, a water tank in a vilage, a teacher/consatble's transfer. Of course these things matter but at local level politics and better left for local/state level politicians.

I am also saying that we perhaps need to be careful about the systematic propaganda generated by politically and cast biased media who are controlled by and large by people whom in most part are not Jat friendly (to a degree we ourselves to be blamed). I don't need to point that out I guess.

I agree with you about caste biased media propaganda. That needs to be condemned. But that does not absolve Mr. Natwar Singh from his responsibilities as well us give us reason to support him for a wrong cause. He made a mistake as a FM, he paid it by being removed from the ministry. He made another mistake by breaching the discipline code of his own political party and he is paying for that too. The question is, that how come suddenly "Jat Mahasabha" and "Jat" Community has become more important to him than his own political party?

On somewhat related comment somewhere that Natwar Singh is a prince with no knowledge of poor people problems. Well, when did kings and prince did so? The irony is that on one hand we disgust the kings/prince and on the other we search our history in kings---no matter how far back in time we might have to go to make that connection---to make ourselves proud. Puzzling to one!!!

Natwar Singh is not alone in misuse of power or being guilty of inefficiency or indifferent attitude towards his own community or the constituency. Most of political leaders remember their voters only at the time of elections. Voters, constituencies and the communities are not important, but winning the election is important and so is bargaining after winning. I know, Shri Surendra Pal Singh was a minister for most of his political life (I think he also had same portfolio) I had travelled for all my life while in India on road from village Saidpur to Chitsona. This falls in his constituency. On papers the road was made black top in 1962 and had been repaired periodically, since then. But in actual fact, the road was not even made till the time I left India in 1998. What is the situation now, I am not aware of.

The fact is, that most princely people or those who have inherited political legacy, are not connected to the people. The problem is that they don't even try to get connected. It is a sorry state of affairs, but then it is true too.

 

[kharub]

Lets Support him now and punish later

Dear Members,

What ever he did or did not do for the community or his constituency lets debate it later.

He for sure is a Jat and he gave us fame at national level when he was FM ... a Jat FM ....

and now he is in trouble ... whatever we have against him is a different matter .. it is an internal Jat matter ... let is discuss it later when he is out of this trouble

For GOD Sake let us show a united front for once .. come out of petty shells and the back biting selves and for once show a consolidated Jat front ...

You know why Israel such a small country kicks Arab ass all the time .. because in time of calamity all the Jews stick together and forget their differences .... when fighting against an external enemy or fighting for Jewish Pride ..... and the Arabs even though they have all that money and much more in number and every other resource cant do anything because they are divided and criticize each other when it is time to consolidate ...

Cmmon I urge you to consolidate behind him for once .. even if he has doen no good .. just because he is a Jat and that should be a reason enough for us to support him for now .. when he is in trouble .....

and when this is all over .. we can punish him in our own courts ... amongst ourselves .. if he has indeed done some wrong or deserves a punishment in any way ....

Our disputes should be solved amongst ourselves .. others should just see a united Jat front ....... one people........ one power .......one unit

This is the only way we will be able to overcome the all those anti-jat forces who have discriminated against us and undermined our achievements in history and present ...

 

[sanjeevm]

Regarding the Jat Mahasabha, well, somewhere one need to put his faith in, somewhere one has to trust his command in chain. If one don't do that and just look at the negatives, ulterior motives and agendas then no one can build any organization. Jat Mahasabha is "supposed" to be politically "secular" to raise social, political and economical issues. I am sure Col. Saheb you know more than me about it. I thought that Jat Mahasbha was one of the oldest and largely followed organization lead mostly by people who actively take part in it and spend their time and some money too. But that's my view. However, I do agree that some elements can get there and do misuse to fulfill their personal ambitions. To some extent, it is unaviodable, but most part, the community could keep vigil eyes to check them, but then it takes time and effort people should be willing to put in, which is hard of course.

Back to Natwar Singh once again, I admit I am clueless about what Natwar Singh has done for his constituency, and I better leave that for his constituents to tell. But, I don't understand what special thing Natwar Singh didn't do that any other MP or Central Minister has done for their constituents? Not sure what is being expected here. And I think it would be immature for one to conclude that he has never helped any Jats, of couse, unless, one is very close associate of him and knows him very well. I am also not sure on what basis it is being claimed over and again that he "just remembered Jat Mahasabha becuase he needed".

From what I know, I think Natwar Singh had an ideology around which he was trying to frame a foreign policy. Based on that ideology he was trying to shape and strengthen an "independent" foriegn policy for india and that is quite a daunting task. It takes quite an effort and work. As any policy the right or wrong is mostly determined by circumstances and time, so, I don't claim his policy framework was good or bad. However, if one could understand what it takes to achieve a task like that wouldn't question what Natwar Singh did for Jats, ok, that's my take. Its not just for Natwar Singh, I mean if any Jat of any political affiliation gets there, tries and be successful should make any Jat proud. Natwar Singh got there, tried and kicked out in the middle. Not a successful story. But he still gets good marks for first two parts.

I don't think Natwar Singh concocted lies. There might have been slips but that is bound to happen if one is angry, emotional and talks and forgets when to not open his mouth. Mix that with negative cheap media stunt works---"select" and "print". Outcome we all know. I hope people learn from this history.

It is also not a sin to get born in privileged family (Jat or otherwise). That shouldn't preclude one from participating in politics and public life either. It may be true that they may not know all the street "tricks" which the "people connected" politicians know. Yes, to learn those "people tricks" one need to go to people.

May be I am mistaken, but I thought that in this forum the basis to support or criticize a Jat leader was "being a Jat" not their political affiliations. Is there any other criterion?

 

[sampuran]

You could have used better words for this best FM of INDIA so far but surely I can't expect better words from a person who portrays GURU Govalkar of RSS a great social revolutionary in league of CH.Chottu Ram.

And Please tell us how could you manage to find out this great secret of Sonia Natwar and her swiss bank accounts.Did these russians official gave you clue regarding this .But how you missed the bags of dollars sent to jehadis by dear FM Jaswant Singh.

Though RSS is famous for its propoganda machine but there should be a limit to this character assasination.

Kharab bhai Ram Ram.
1 You are patently wrong when you equate RSS with India or Hindus. I am an Indian and a Hindu at that. It does not mean I carry a brief for RSS or Golwalkar.

2 I have not written a word of praise for RSS or the GURU, as you call him. Please show , if you have any evidence.

3. For me India's interests come before any community. And I think supporting Natwar, though we have distant family connections, is wrong, even though he is a fellow Jat.

4. Why did Putin arrange Sonia's private visit to St. Petersburg in June 2005?
http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=3&theme=&usrsess=1&id=126443

http://www.indianembassy.ru/docs-htm/en/en_sonia_gandhi_2005_02_t003.htm
http://www.hindu.com/2005/06/16/stories/2005061606141200.htm

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2005/06/17/stories/2005061705801200.htm

How free is India?

Today independent India enters its sixtieth year. How free is it? The
crisis involving Mr Natwar Singh raises disquiet. Mr Natwar Singh's
twists and turns as he defended himself invited ridicule. The role of
the opposition parties was no better. The NDA had sought Mr Natwar
Singh's arrest after the Oil for Food scandal surfaced. Later it
supported him to attack the government. Some intriguing aspects of
this crisis merit special attention.

The Pathak Report most conveniently dovetailed with the political
objectives of the Congress. Mr Natwar Singh "misused" his position but
took no money. Therefore he deserved cabinet expulsion but no legal
conviction. The Congress itself was exonerated. Mrs Sonia Gandhi wrote
to President Saddam introducing Mr Natwar Singh. At the same time Mr
Natwar Singh wrote letters introducing Mr Andaleeb Sehgal. The Pathak
Authority considered Mr Natwar Singh a facilitator.

Key question

Why not Mrs Sonia Gandhi too? Mr Natwar Singh told media he fully
briefed Mrs Gandhi after his Iraq visit. He said: "I have not done
anything in Iraq without the knowledge of Sonia Gandhi....Not even a
leaf moves in the Congress without Mrs Gandhi's knowledge."

If this is true, whether or not she saw his three letters becomes
irrelevant. The amount allegedly pocketed by Mr Andaleeb Sehgal and Mr
Aditya Khanna is a small fraction of the money realized from the
vouchers. Where did the rest go? If Congress was the beneficiary it
would distance itself from Mr Sehgal and Mr Khanna. Mr Natwar Singh's
letters left a trail. Was that what angered the Congress?

PS : One request, pl dont mix your prejudices with arguments.

 

[virenderkhokhar]

do anybody has got any idea about the rally put up in support of Mr. Natwar Singh as in how many people attended that rally...i was wondering why not a single newspaper or tv channel did cover this rally ........any conspiracy behind

 

[trueblueindian]

If Mr. Natwar and his son are guilty, let them be punished.

All i ask is how many bofors, volker, tehalka reports we are awaiting for, when will these stupid things come to an end.

A brighter idea, lets form a jatland political outfit and see what we can do here, lol...maybe its a joke but someone some day has to do something diffrent to stop all this nonsense. think about future guys, even politics is now a legacy, father - son - relative and so on affair now. and on top of this 80-90 saal ke buddhe ho chuke hain par retire hi nahi hona chahte. kya nasha hai yaar ye satta ka.

am starting a thread on Retirement age for politicians, do drop in your views there.

 

[system]

News Search: Natwar's revenge: Will campaign against Congress - Times of India

Natwar's revenge: Will campaign against Congress
[SIZE=-1]Times of India, India - 3 hours ago[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Back from a trip to Bharatpur, his political base in Rajasthan, Singh said he had got an encouraging response from both Jats and Muslims. "We will go all out. ... [/SIZE]


More...

 

[sanjeevm]

Way to go Mr. Natwar Singh and it's about time to show some real guts. You've got a chance. Enough of this "High Command" crap and handcuffs. If anyone can do it, you can do it. Avoid those mishaps.

 

[aarti]

This is what Natwar Singh’s son Jagat Singh had to say after a Jat Mahasabha rally in Nagaur yesterday.

http://www.rajasthanpatrika.com/News/city_inner.php?NewsID=531389&DID=23&Template=0&IsEd=&TID= title=



Rajasthan Patrika September 26, 2006
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[netrapalsingh]

do anybody has got any idea about the rally put up in support of Mr. Natwar Singh as in how many people attended that rally...i was wondering why not a single newspaper or tv channel did cover this rally ........any conspiracy behind

veeru bhai ram ram

kai din bad dikha, bhai natwar ke rally ko BJP ka poora support tha support
to jat mahasabha ka bhee tha usko lkin wo do dhai lakh logo ke ane ke
umeed lagae baithe the parantu rally me 20,000 be log nahi apaye.

jayada tar leadro ne jato ke dukhte rag to cheda unhone yahee kaha
kee ek bhee jat CM rajasthan me nahe hai natwar singh ke putra ne
congres ko jam kar kosa. parantoo Natwar Singh ke bhashan me kahi
bhee ye nahi laga kee wo congress se khfa hai balkee unhone to
congress me nahru or indira ke smay se apnee wafadaree ke gun gaye.

us rally ka koi khas ochitya bhee nahi tha. Mr. Raja Ram Meel jo jatmahasabha ke adyaksh hai unko khud nahe pata kee jato
ka rukh kaha hai.

netra....

 

[netrapalsingh]

This is what Natwar Singh’s son Jagat Singh had to say after a Jat Mahasabha rally in Nagaur yesterday.

http://www.rajasthanpatrika.com/News/city_inner.php?NewsID=531389&DID=23&Template=0&IsEd=&TID= title=



Rajasthan Patrika September 26, 2006
‹ØæØ ·¤ô çÁ΢»è ÖÚU ÙãUè´ ÖêÜꢻæÑ Á»Ì

Ùæ»õÚUUÐ çßÏæØ·¤ Á»Ìçâ¢ãU Ùð ·¤ãUæ ç·¤ ß𠷤梻ýðâ mæÚUæ ©Uٷ𤠥õÚU ©UÙ·ð¤ çÂÌæ Âêßü çßÎðàæ ×¢˜æè ÙÅßÚçâ¢ã ·ð¤ âæÍ ç·¤° »° ¥‹ØæØ ·¤ô çÁ¢Î»è ÖÚU Ùãè´ ÖêÜð´»ðÐ ÂæÆU·¤ çÚUÂôÅüU ×ð´ ©U‹ãð´U ÖÜð ãUè ÕðÎæ» ·¤ÚUæÚU çÎØæ, Üðç·¤Ù ·¤æ¢»ýð⠷𤠷é¤ÀU Üô»ô´ Ùð áÇ÷Ø¢˜æ ·¤Ú ©U‹ãUð´ ÂæÅUèü âð ÕæãUÚU çÙ·¤ÜßæØæÐ ç·¤âæÙ SßæçÖ×æÙ ÚñUÜè ×ð´ Öæ» ÜðÙð ¥æ° Á»Ìçâ¢ãU Ùð â¢ßæÎÎæÌæ â�×ðÜÙ ×ð´ ·¤ãUæ ç·¤ ¥¢ÎÕèÜ âãU»Ü ÂÚU ÎÕæß ÕÙæ·¤ÚU »ÜÌ ÌÚUè·ð¤ âð ÕØæÙ çÜ° »° ãñUÐ ©UÙ·ð¤ çÂÌæ ÙÅUßÚUçâ¢ãU ·¤ô âžæÚU ßáü ·¤è ¥æØé ×ð´ ·¤æ¢»ýðâ ÂçÚUßæÚU âð Ï€·¤æ Îð·¤ÚU çÙ·¤æÜÙæ ¥Ùéç¿Ì ãñUÐ
¥æ»æ×è çßÏæÙâÖæ ¿éÙæß ×ð´ ÁÙÌæ ·¤æ¢»ýðâ ·ð¤ Öæ‚Ø ·¤æ Èñ¤âÜæ ·¤ÚU Îð»èÐ

aarti jee aap kya kahna chahtee hai kuch samaj nahe arha hai kon sa font
use kiya hai.

rajasthan patrika jat virodhi shuru se hee rahee bhairo singh shekhawat
jab shuru me CM bana to usne rajasthan patrika ko ek gad dediya tha
jo JK Lon Hospital ke samne hai. jisme aaj tak rajasthan patrika ka office isliye ye anti jat or anti congress hai rajasthan patrika ke samkaksh ek news paper tha dainik navjyoti jiska nirman durga prasad choudhary ne kiya tha uska office sindhi ke pas hai. parantoo wo aaj itna popular nahee
hai. aaj dainik bhaskar hee ek aise news paper jo nispaksh likhta hai.

dainik bhaskar me ek bar to ghlot or natwar singh me kuch kaha suni
hugi thee iskee khabar ayee the ke jagat singh ke sabha me gahlot
gut ke logo ne pathabajee kee uske natwarsingh ka statment aya
ki ghalot me dam ho bharat pur me raily kar ke dikhao.

kal ek khabar me jagatsingh ko congress ke virodh me prachar karane
ke bare me likha tha.

ye sab mithya bate hai jat par natwar singh ka bharat pur me bhee
itna prabhav nhee hai jitna ke raja privar ka hai.

netra

 

[shamshermalik]

Bhai kyoon murde nai uthaye haandon ho...yo Natawar kissi kam ka nahin...na jaaton ke liye naa kissi or ke liye...its better that he gets finished politicaly because of his corrupt and selfish deeds.

If we want to see the Nation rising than we have to get above the religion, region and cast.

 

[skarmveer]

Mr Natwar Singh And Congress.

Abhi tak ki sari baat padaney ke bad to eesa nahi lagata ki Natwar Singh
ne koi bahut badi Chori kee ho agar hum Congress key system ko dekhey to
Natwar Singh ko isley nikala gaya hai ke osney paisa nahi liya.

Sabhi Jatoo ko usey suport karna Chaiye.

Karmveer Chahal

 

[netrapalsingh]

Bhai kyoon murde nai uthaye haandon ho...yo Natawar kissi kam ka nahin...na jaaton ke liye naa kissi or ke liye...its better that he gets finished politicaly because of his corrupt and selfish deeds.

If we want to see the Nation rising than we have to get above the religion, region and cast.

sahee kaha doctor sahab,

"Natawar kissi kam ka nahin", aaj ke samay me kaam ka leader wo manajata hai jo kisi ke kaam awe or kaam ane wale leader mujhe
to dikhte nahi is desh me. janta har 5 sal me sarkar badal dete hai
chahe haryana ho ya rahasthan ya UP ke tarah milijuli jule sarkar
banjatee hai.

par Natwar Singh Jat or as a jat ye discussion ho raha hai.

netra.......

 

[netrapalsingh]

Mr Natwar Singh And Congress.

Abhi tak ki sari baat padaney ke bad to eesa nahi lagata ki Natwar Singh
ne koi bahut badi Chori kee ho agar hum Congress key system ko dekhey to
Natwar Singh ko isley nikala gaya hai ke osney paisa nahi liya.

Sabhi Jatoo ko usey suport karna Chaiye.

Karmveer Chahal

karamveer bhai sahab, aap kee bat sahee hai par ek kahawat hai

Thali giri aawaj huyee tuti ya bachi kisne dekha.

Netra........

 

[skarmveer]

Netrapal Bhai sahab,

Congres me choro ki koi kami nahi hai fir Natwer singh ko hi kue nikala gaya.
Es desh me politics me chori ki suruaat he congress say hoi hai.

Natwar Singh ne Khoob paise liye hote to yai nahi nikaltey, Congress key bhut sarey netao ke yahan sey Gaadi bharkey note nikley they per wo congress sey kabhi nahi nikaley gayai.

Natwar Singh kai nikalney ka karan hai Purana hai, Imandar hai or aram sey bali ka bakra banaya ja sakta hai, kuki Jato ko sabhi jantey ke yai aasani sey
aak sath nahi chal saketay.

Mane aak bar Natwar Singh ko dekha hai, Us time congress serkar nahi thee or Natwar singh koi Mantri nahi tha fir bhee enkey sath lagbhag 10000 log they or Sariska Bird Century mai "Hanuman Mandir" mey darshan ke leyai
gayai they, mai bhee Hanuman Mandir darshan ke liya gaya thaa.

Aager kisee key saath Mandir darshan key liyey eteney log jatey hai to
Koi Baat to hogi hee.

Or ees site per Natwar Singh ka virodh meri samajh me to aaya nahi.
Ho sakta hai kee mujhey ees sab ki samajh hi na ho.

Karmveer Chahal

 

[skarmveer]

Dr Sahab

Jeevan mey bahut saari cheej bager kam ki bhee oothaa key chalna padta hai ye to fir bhee Purana Jat hai or han eak bat or hai agar mar bhee gaya hai
to bhee abhi eskee teramee nahi hoi or Jat jab tak mara mana hee nahi jata
jab tak teravi na ho jay.

Rahi Nation ko uper uthaney ke Baat to Pahley parivar, Fir Perdesh, Fir Desh ko uper uthaya ja Sakta hai bagair pariwar ko uper uthai hum kuch bhee uper nahi utha saketey.

With Regards
Karmveer Chahal

Bhai kyoon murde nai uthaye haandon ho...yo Natawar kissi kam ka nahin...na jaaton ke liye naa kissi or ke liye...its better that he gets finished politicaly because of his corrupt and selfish deeds.

If we want to see the Nation rising than we have to get above the religion, region and cast.

 

[system]

News Search: The fall that Natwar wrote - Central Chronicle

The fall that Natwar wrote
[SIZE=-1]Central Chronicle, India - 40 minutes ago[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]... At one time he threatened to lead a massive rally of the Jats, a community he belongs to, to Delhi to demonstrate his clout to those who thought that he was ... [/SIZE]


More...

 

[chhillar]

The fall that Natwar wrote
[SIZE=-1]Central Chronicle, India - 40 minutes ago[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]... At one time he threatened to lead a massive rally of the Jats, a community he belongs to, to Delhi to demonstrate his clout to those who thought that he was ... [/SIZE]


More...

Massive rally!!! my a**....is aadmi ne kade Jataan tahin kuchh karya bhi he???