Origins of India's caste system - Genetics & European migrants : Genome News Network

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moar

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Origins of India's caste system - Genetics & European migrants : Genome News Network

Link to Article : http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml




Excerpts :


"A new study has revealed that Indians belonging to higher castes are genetically closer to Europeans . . . .

. . . . The study compared genetic markers—located on the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA—between 265 Indian men of various castes and 750 African, Asian, European and other Indian men. To broaden the study, 40 markers from chromosomes 1 to 22 were analyzed from more than 600 individuals from different castes and continents. The comparison of the markers among these groups confirmed that genetic similarities to Europeans increased as caste rank increased. . . .

. . . . The study, led by Michael Bamshad of the University of Utah, in Salt Lake City, and his colleagues, is reported to be the most comprehensive genetic analysis to date of the impact of European migrations on the structure and origin of the current Indian population. The article appears in the current issue of Genome Research. . . .

. . . . Bamshad's team found that Y chromosomes from the Brahmin and Kshatriya closely resembled European Y chromosomes rather than Asian Y chromosomes. . . .

. . . . Analysis of the paternally transmitted Y chromosome among Indians in general indicated that the Y chromosome had a more European flavor. Maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA among Indians is more Asian than European. . . ."




Link to Article : http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml
 
Interesting. I think the study is about 11 years old. The link itself is of 2001.

It would be interesting to see on what basis they classified the similarity. What did they categorize as "European flavor"?
 
Moar said:
Link to Article : http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml




Excerpts :


"A new study has revealed that Indians belonging to higher castes are genetically closer to Europeans . . . .

. . . . The study compared genetic markers—located on the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA—between 265 Indian men of various castes and 750 African, Asian, European and other Indian men. To broaden the study, 40 markers from chromosomes 1 to 22 were analyzed from more than 600 individuals from different castes and continents. The comparison of the markers among these groups confirmed that genetic similarities to Europeans increased as caste rank increased. . . .

. . . . The study, led by Michael Bamshad of the University of Utah, in Salt Lake City, and his colleagues, is reported to be the most comprehensive genetic analysis to date of the impact of European migrations on the structure and origin of the current Indian population. The article appears in the current issue of Genome Research. . . .

. . . . Bamshad's team found that Y chromosomes from the Brahmin and Kshatriya closely resembled European Y chromosomes rather than Asian Y chromosomes. . . .

. . . . Analysis of the paternally transmitted Y chromosome among Indians in general indicated that the Y chromosome had a more European flavor. Maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA among Indians is more Asian than European. . . ."

Link to Article : http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml
Click to expand...

Very laborious effort but the results of the study are beyond comprehension for common man. For example could you explain what does the sentence conveys and on what sort of data the result could be applied to understand Indian social and caste system: ".....Analysis of the paternally transmitted Y chromosome among Indians in general indicated that the Y chromosome had a more European flavor. Maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA among Indians is more Asian than European. . . ."
 
There is need to explain DNA studies with reference to Jats and Jat clans in simple words. How and why there were migrations and mixing up of various groups with time scale. A layman can not understand DNA, X-chromosome Y-chromosome etc. Can somebody take up this task ?
 
इस DNA टेस्टिंग तै तो माखी (Drosophila) का बी बेरा ना पाटता की या यूनान तै आई सै के मेक्सिको तै ...स्तनधारी (Mammalian) तो बहोत पेचीदा जीव सै ..और थम पहोच गे माणस की जात और गोत (गोत्र) का फैसला करण तक
 
lrburdak said:
There is need to explain DNA studies with reference to Jats and Jat clans in simple words. How and why there were migrations and mixing up of various groups with time scale. A layman can not understand DNA, X-chromosome Y-chromosome etc. Can somebody take up this task ?
Click to expand...

There are genetic studies that have been done specifically to map DNAs of Jats and possibly figure out migration patterns. One is by a UK based Pakistani Jat who was a PhD holder. I dont remember his name. You can google it. Another is Harappan ancestory project. The later is more Punjab/North Indian focused but has a decent sample size of Jats leading to a good genetic comparison with other communities. http://www.harappadna.org/

But having seen a few DNA studies on Jats or larger studies containing Jat samples, I can say that lack of a sample size is limiting factor when drawing conclusions from these studies. For a population running into millions, we need at least a thousand samples of Jats to make valid conclusions or figure out origins. Sadly there hasnt been any large scale study on Jat genetics.
 
lrburdak said:
There is need to explain DNA studies with reference to Jats and Jat clans in simple words. How and why there were migrations and mixing up of various groups with time scale. A layman can not understand DNA, X-chromosome Y-chromosome etc. Can somebody take up this task ?
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Dear Respected Sir, may I please suggest that a thread should be started over this subject in order to ' discuss and discover ' the possibilities and the options available at present (and the possibilities in near future) in the Scientific gallery ?!


Once We reach a consensus, then We can plan to generate finance for the task through the co-operation of various Jat organisations from India & abroad !! This could prove to be hefty one, as We may require a green signal from the government as well, but it's definitely worth it !! At-least, We may lay a foundation for the project that may well be initiated some-day in near future, by initiating a discussion on Jatland Forums !!
 
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जिस परकार सीथियन एम्पायर उत्तर भारत से लेकर काला सागर तक फेली हुई थी ( एक नक़्शे के अनुसार ) और वहीँ से लोग कालान्तर में विशव के अन्य भागों में गए हैं जीवन यापन के लिए | तो इस तरह कहना की जट्टों में यूरोपियन के "y " क्रोमोसोम ज्यादा मिलते पाए गए हैं की बजाय ये भी कहा जा सकता हे की युओरोपियन में जट्टों के "y " क्रोमोसोम ज्यादा मिलते पाए गए हैं | अब जिस प्रकार इंडो-यूरोपियन भाषाओं का विकास और प्रसार तुर्की से हुआ हे (एक कम्पूटर मोडल के अनुसार )उस्सी परकार वहीँ से आज के इंडो-यूरोपियन ,इंडो-सीथियन का फेलाव भी वहीँ से हुआ | इस परकार भाषा ,डी.एन.ए,पहनावा ,रीती-रिवाज ,धार्मिक-एतिहासिक-सामाजिक मान्यताओं का एक ३-डी मोडल बणाया जाए तो तस्वीर एक दम साफ़ हो जायेगी |
 
Caste bar on marriages became entrenched 2000 years ago, genetic study finds

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-genetic-study-finds/articleshow/21724182.cms

In a fascinating study of how different types of populations mixed in India, scientists have found that there were three stages of intermixing.

In ancient times, over 4000 years ago, there were two separate populations based in north and south India with no mixing. Then, in the second stage between 4000 years ago and 1900 years ago, comes a phase of widespread intermingling of populations, which penetrated to even the most isolated groups. Finally, from around 1900 years onwards, several subgroups of the already mixed population stopped marrying outside their group, and thus became frozen.
 
Arvindc said:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-genetic-study-finds/articleshow/21724182.cms

In a fascinating study of how different types of populations mixed in India, scientists have found that there were three stages of intermixing.

In ancient times, over 4000 years ago, there were two separate populations based in north and south India with no mixing. Then, in the second stage between 4000 years ago and 1900 years ago, comes a phase of widespread intermingling of populations, which penetrated to even the most isolated groups. Finally, from around 1900 years onwards, several subgroups of the already mixed population stopped marrying outside their group, and thus became frozen.
Click to expand...

Ancient genetics and blood.
 
Moar said:
Link to Article : http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml




Excerpts :


"A new study has revealed that Indians belonging to higher castes are genetically closer to Europeans . . . .

. . . . The study compared genetic markers—located on the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA—between 265 Indian men of various castes and 750 African, Asian, European and other Indian men. To broaden the study, 40 markers from chromosomes 1 to 22 were analyzed from more than 600 individuals from different castes and continents. The comparison of the markers among these groups confirmed that genetic similarities to Europeans increased as caste rank increased. . . .

. . . . The study, led by Michael Bamshad of the University of Utah, in Salt Lake City, and his colleagues, is reported to be the most comprehensive genetic analysis to date of the impact of European migrations on the structure and origin of the current Indian population. The article appears in the current issue of Genome Research. . . .

. . . . Bamshad's team found that Y chromosomes from the Brahmin and Kshatriya closely resembled European Y chromosomes rather than Asian Y chromosomes. . . .

. . . . Analysis of the paternally transmitted Y chromosome among Indians in general indicated that the Y chromosome had a more European flavor. Maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA among Indians is more Asian than European. . . ."




Link to Article : http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml
Click to expand...

Well, the so called higher caste Indian could very well say that it was their migration into Europe that has led to same DNA in the 2 populations. This study, from what is posted here, cannot claim migration patterns.
 
Moar said:
Link to Article : http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml




Excerpts :


"A new study has revealed that Indians belonging to higher castes are genetically closer to Europeans . . . .

. . . . The study compared genetic markers�located on the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA�between 265 Indian men of various castes and 750 African, Asian, European and other Indian men. To broaden the study, 40 markers from chromosomes 1 to 22 were analyzed from more than 600 individuals from different castes and continents. The comparison of the markers among these groups confirmed that genetic similarities to Europeans increased as caste rank increased. . . .

. . . . The study, led by Michael Bamshad of the University of Utah, in Salt Lake City, and his colleagues, is reported to be the most comprehensive genetic analysis to date of the impact of European migrations on the structure and origin of the current Indian population. The article appears in the current issue of Genome Research. . . .

. . . . Bamshad's team found that Y chromosomes from the Brahmin and Kshatriya closely resembled European Y chromosomes rather than Asian Y chromosomes. . . .

. . . . Analysis of the paternally transmitted Y chromosome among Indians in general indicated that the Y chromosome had a more European flavor. Maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA among Indians is more Asian than European. . . ."




Link to Article : http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml
Click to expand...

Well, the so called higher caste Indian could very well say that it was their migration into Europe that has led to same DNA in the 2 populations. This study, from what is posted here, cannot claim migration patterns.
 
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