''Pakistan must be laughing at us''

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sumitdalal

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India's more than extra-mile walk for Pakistan always raise doubts over India's strength and will to fight cross-border terrorism.After the recent joint statement after the crucial discussion between the prime ministers of both the counteries ,Pakistan will be more than satisfied.

Whatever be India's ideas and expectations regarding joint statement,Pakistan is gloating over the outcome.The biggest blunder,India has made,is by leaving scope of diverse interpretation of the joint statement.No matter how loudly we shout at the peak of our voice about our version,we have left ambiguity in the joint statement,which Pakistan will never fail to capitalise.Pakistan version of interpretation will suggest a climbdown by India on issue of cross border terrorism.This will appear as capitulation by India.

Putting a light on the joint statement and its different interpretations:
1)Composite Dialogue process and Pakistan's responsibilty towards action on terrorism.
INDIA'S VERSION:Pakistan cannot ask for a resumption of composite dialogue by just showing ''action'' against terrorism.
PAKISTAN'S VERSION:All core issues tht are pending under composite dialogue should be discussed and that should not be bracketed with the Mumbai's incident.
2)Pakistan's Balochistan problem in the joint statement and thus taking it as bilateral issue.
INDIA'S VERSION:India has nothing to be afraid about events in Balochistan and India is willing to discuss things.
PAKISTAN'S VERION:Strength to the contention that Balochistan unrest was being fomented by India.
3)Joint statement's silence on Pakistan's commitment of 2004 that it will not allow its territory to be used for terrorism against India.

Thus,we can conclude that this joint statement of India and Pakistan can be termed as 'Advantage Pakistan'.India needs to show strength and determination on issue of terrorism .Such ambiguities might have dangerous future consequences.India's anger and its will to fight terrorism seems to be inversely proportional to time,with the passage of time, anger and will descend.The only solution to fight terrorism is the 'no compromise' attitude.But the government appears to be in no mood to learn from past mistakes.'Havana compomise' of 2006 had left its own lessons to be learnt.But,Indian government needs some more learning lessons thats why a new chapter is opened with the joint statement.Hopefully we learn our lessons before its too late.For now,former top diplomat G.Parthasarthy has touch the right chord with his statement ''Pakistan must be laughing at us''.
 
It seems that Congress has taken the step of engagement with Pakistan. But will it work, i am not sure considering the history with PAk. Granted, engagement talks can provide a solution in long run but had we get any in last 62 years? Congress is now de-linking terror issue in fresh talks and applying soft statements on terror. Congress is counting on PAK Promise of action on terrorism which has disappointed us always.
 
What Manmohan Singh did was stupid. What do you expect from him.
But Pakistanis are $hit scared these days ... with the Taliban / Al-Qaeda thing going on. They are not really in a position to laugh at us .... and I don't think they do ... we need to stop playing this game of one-up-man-ship with Pakis ... they are a completely ruined country. That being said, I am not sure what Manmohan was trying to achieve by his gestures .. seemed pretty idiotic.
 
Futility!

Part of the collpasing state that is now Pakistan; is it's inability (or is it 'unwillingness') to find any terrorists that cross the border and have their way in India... in any case, they themselves are being 'buggered' good n' proper rite now! :rolleyes: (add to that the supposed link and hand-in-glove of sections of their ISI- provinding training and expertise to certain terror 'groups' is even more disturbing and unhelpful)...

So frankly it begs the question that in all reality what do our jokers in the Govt expect and/or really hoping to get out of this whole new gesture???...
 
I know not what the PMs discussed in their half an hour conversation but what comes out are two different statements.There was no clarity in those statements and creating a lot of confusion. I don't know why there is complete change in Manmohan singh's attitude from Russia to Egypt. In russia he said we won't talk unless pakistan act on Mumbai attackers and now he is saying lets de-link terrorism from other talks. Why this change in Stand?

Coming to Balouchistan, PAK PM said...balouchistan or north PAK mai aatankwaad mai bharat ka haath hai.And there is no oppose from our PM Manmohan singh on this statement.This gives an unfair advantage to PAK in future.PAK will always say that India was not denying their hand in Blouchistan in future. And if it is opposed then why this was not included in Common statement?

Our PM said India need to talk with its neighbours if she want to become superpower.Does we really need to talk? Look at America, China and Russia they all become superpowers with their disputes both internal and external.Pak does not want to develop themselves, they only want to pull the leg of developing India.Can't we become superpower without talking to PAK?

i think this issue will settle down for now in few days and will rise again when two sides Foreign ministers will meet in September.If no incident happen in between then this Railgadi will continue further.
 
mera maanna yeh hai ki kuch nahi ho sakta india pakistan ki is problem ka.... chalti rahegi yeh aise hi...
 
kasmir ke liye itna paisa kharaab kar raha hai india ki itney paise mein hazaaron nayi yojna ban jaayein baaki desh k liye
 
sumitdalal said:
India's more than extra-mile walk for Pakistan always raise doubts over India's strength and will to fight cross-border terrorism.After the recent joint statement after the crucial discussion between the prime ministers of both the counteries ,Pakistan will be more than satisfied.

Whatever be India's ideas and expectations regarding joint statement,Pakistan is gloating over the outcome.The biggest blunder,India has made,is by leaving scope of diverse interpretation of the joint statement.No matter how loudly we shout at the peak of our voice about our version,we have left ambiguity in the joint statement,which Pakistan will never fail to capitalise.Pakistan version of interpretation will suggest a climbdown by India on issue of cross border terrorism.This will appear as capitulation by India.

Putting a light on the joint statement and its different interpretations:
1)Composite Dialogue process and Pakistan's responsibilty towards action on terrorism.
INDIA'S VERSION:Pakistan cannot ask for a resumption of composite dialogue by just showing ''action'' against terrorism.
PAKISTAN'S VERSION:All core issues tht are pending under composite dialogue should be discussed and that should not be bracketed with the Mumbai's incident.
2)Pakistan's Balochistan problem in the joint statement and thus taking it as bilateral issue.
INDIA'S VERSION:India has nothing to be afraid about events in Balochistan and India is willing to discuss things.
PAKISTAN'S VERION:Strength to the contention that Balochistan unrest was being fomented by India.
3)Joint statement's silence on Pakistan's commitment of 2004 that it will not allow its territory to be used for terrorism against India.

Thus,we can conclude that this joint statement of India and Pakistan can be termed as 'Advantage Pakistan'.India needs to show strength and determination on issue of terrorism .Such ambiguities might have dangerous future consequences.India's anger and its will to fight terrorism seems to be inversely proportional to time,with the passage of time, anger and will descend.The only solution to fight terrorism is the 'no compromise' attitude.But the government appears to be in no mood to learn from past mistakes.'Havana compomise' of 2006 had left its own lessons to be learnt.But,Indian government needs some more learning lessons thats why a new chapter is opened with the joint statement.Hopefully we learn our lessons before its too late.For now,former top diplomat G.Parthasarthy has touch the right chord with his statement ''Pakistan must be laughing at us''.
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Yes Sumit, you are dead right. The joint statements, etc. are quite a blunder. But what is even more ridiculous is that India is going to have talks with Pakistan. What's the point? Have they done anything on the Mumbai attacks? No. Who said that there won't be any talks unless Pakistan takes action on the Mumbai attacks? Indian govt. Have they done anything? No. And now, we are again starting the media circus over the talks. There is enough bull sh*t happening in India to take care of. But you divert everyone's focus to some stupid talks that are not going achieve anything. Just press the ignore button on Pakistan and do some governance instead.
 
Why ppl ignore the importance of continuous dialogue…every country has their own problem Pakistan is a fundamentalist county based on their religion hence they are paying off the price of Extremism….history shows us that nothing can be solved by wars (except motivated by imperialism or Colonialism) driven by the failure of dialogue….few years back I met one Pakistani national who came India to visit some of his Indian relative …during our conversation he told me Pakistan is a very small country they have only four states…sindh, panjab, bluchistan & NW frontier province….hence they value their land and existence like no other….just think of Pakistan’s eye…when India took the advantage of their civil war in 1971 and ripped apart the Pakistan in two…isn't the attack on the Sovereignty of a nation by indirect means..while some may say a diplomatic act...i agree!
the demolition of Babri mosque and the then present incumbency's failure to prevent the saffron brigade who were on the rampage…that one incident led to the Bombay blast…Whatever we are seeing in form of terrorism against India is just their hate & resentment toward our nation... reciprocating the same thing in their language not going to help either of the nation...
everything cant be subside by the stick of violence….u can eliminate one person…or one family or one section of society…bt certainly not one country or a religion…why educated young Muslims take the wrong path…just becoz they think world has been unfair to them…and only jihad can bring them a justice. Wrong Idealism rgt??…we need to understand the importance of continues dialogue… ….when we have seen growing Israel philistine tension amid the failure of dialogues…philistine kills two Israeli…and in Retaliation Israeli kills whole philistine family….in Tibet too growing conflict between china and dalai lama never seems to be resolved by the indifferent attitude of china.…

Its takes a lot of patience, efforts and sincerity from both the side to make long lasting peace and sometimes one of them backed out…accusing the other…

Being a larger country, a stable democracy and more prosperous then Pakistan the onus of continuous dialogue (despite
temporary outage) is on us by making them trust on us…by sincere effort, admitting the past mistakes done by India..
(By the way I m nowhere indorsing that parting Pakistan was a mistake :))


nowadays the things seems to be improved in terms of Pakistan’s attitude….when Pakistan has admitted openly that the terrorism has been grown in Pakistan by their own system…and trailing the 26/11 accused officially which has been confirmed by their press and a dossier sent to India shows that this time things are certainly on positive note if not substantially improved…..
 
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india mein itni bhrroon hatya hoti hai so ladkiyon ki kami ho rahi hai... pakistan k saath ristedariyan badhao unke bateu ban jao fer bhaichara ristedary etc ho jaga er woh bum goley nahi bhejengey apni chori ke sasural mein. waise bi up bihar se najdeek padega haryana aur rajasthan ke jaton ko...kya khayal he? :) :( :o :rock
 
sunnytewatia said:
kasmir ke liye itna paisa kharaab kar raha hai india ki itney paise mein hazaaron nayi yojna ban jaayein baaki desh k liye
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so loose kashmir loose respect for ?yojana ?
here respect of a whole nation is at stake , in the next step you may be asked to leave punjab and haryana .
 
sudeepdular said:
Why ppl ignore the importance of continuous dialogue…every country has their own problem Pakistan is a fundamentalist county based on their religion hence they are paying off the price of Extremism….history shows us that nothing can be solved by wars (except motivated by imperialism or Colonialism) driven by the failure of dialogue….few years back I met one Pakistani national who came India to visit some of his Indian relative …during our conversation he told me Pakistan is a very small country they have only four states…sindh, panjab, bluchistan & NW frontier province….hence they value their land and existence like no other….just think of Pakistan’s eye…when India took the advantage of their civil war in 1971 and ripped apart the Pakistan in two…isn't the attack on the Sovereignty of a nation by indirect means..while some may say a diplomatic act...i agree!
the demolition of Babri mosque and the then present incumbency's failure to prevent the saffron brigade who were on the rampage…that one incident led to the Bombay blast…Whatever we are seeing in form of terrorism against India is just their hate & resentment toward our nation... reciprocating the same thing in their language not going to help either of the nation...
everything cant be subside by the stick of violence….u can eliminate one person…or one family or one section of society…bt certainly not one country or a religion…why educated young Muslims take the wrong path…just becoz they think world has been unfair to them…and only jihad can bring them a justice. Wrong Idealism rgt??…we need to understand the importance of continues dialogue… ….when we have seen growing Israel philistine tension amid the failure of dialogues…philistine kills two Israeli…and in Retaliation Israeli kills whole philistine family….in Tibet too growing conflict between china and dalai lama never seems to be resolved by the indifferent attitude of china.…

Its takes a lot of patience, efforts and sincerity from both the side to make long lasting peace and sometimes one of them backed out…accusing the other…

Being a larger country, a stable democracy and more prosperous then Pakistan the onus of continuous dialogue (despite
temporary outage) is on us by making them trust on us…by sincere effort, admitting the past mistakes done by India..
(By the way I m nowhere indorsing that parting Pakistan was a mistake :))


nowadays the things seems to be improved in terms of Pakistan’s attitude….when Pakistan has admitted openly that the terrorism has been grown in Pakistan by their own system…and trailing the 26/11 accused officially which has been confirmed by their press and a dossier sent to India shows that this time things are certainly on positive note if not substantially improved…..
Click to expand...

Sudeep,

The importance of continuous dialogue is when it is continuos. Not when it is contingent on the next attack on us. We had the whole bus diplomacy when Vajpayee was there. Following Kargil, that dialogue was snapped. Then without any change on the ground, it was followed by Agra summit. Followed by Parliament attack. Again the dialogue was snapped and we had our army on front positions ready to attack for almost an year. And then it was followed by more dialogues, more attacks and more snapping of dialogues. Either the govt. should come out and state that it recognizes that these attacks have nothing to do with the Pakistan govt. and hence we will keep talking to them. But no govt. can say that as it is manifestly untrue. Everyone knows that Army calls the shots in Pakistan and many sections of the Army are hands in glove with the jehadis. You can try your best to be sincere and win their trust, but it won't change a thing. The army in Pakistan derives its power from anti-India feelings. If India becomes a friend, then they would lose their importance and then their power. As for their changing attitude, it is not much of a change to be honest. All this admitting to this and that happens under US pressure and to placate US to get some more billions in aid. All this stuff about Babri Masjid, etc. and linking that to Pakistan's antipathy towards India is quite misplaced. There was antipathy before that. Pakistan was formed because of antipathy. It is in the interests of the jehadi-army complex to keep the antipathy alive. Our talking to them or other such acts of bleeding heart liberals who do candle diplomacy at Wagah border is not going to change a thing. And I'd have agreed with "There is no harm trying", had it not been so counterproductive. Pakistan knows that howsoever audacious their next terrorist attack is, India will get "normal" pretty soon.
 
sunnytewatia said:
kasmir ke liye itna paisa kharaab kar raha hai india ki itney paise mein hazaaron nayi yojna ban jaayein baaki desh k liye
Click to expand...

Bhai, Kashmir is at the core of our nationhood. The idea of India is based on people of humungous diversity living together and sharing a common nationhood. If Kashmir secession can be justified, then be prepared for Khalistan, Tamil land, Maratha land, Gujju land, Bong Land, Jatland, etc. etc.
 
Concur with ya totally, even I was taken by surprise, when I heard the news. Totally Disappointing !! :mad:

Pakistan is a failed state and now it is playing double game, I wonder when govt will realize this. As you stated Indians have become tolerable to these terrorist attacks as they get 'normal' pretty soon. Its high time and time to teach Bloody Pakis. We should totally cut off all the connections with them till they get us all the culprits.

Offense is the best Defense !

kapil.dalal said:
Sudeep,

The importance of continuous dialogue is when it is continuos. Not when it is contingent on the next attack on us. We had the whole bus diplomacy when Vajpayee was there. Following Kargil, that dialogue was snapped. Then without any change on the ground, it was followed by Agra summit. Followed by Parliament attack. Again the dialogue was snapped and we had our army on front positions ready to attack for almost an year. And then it was followed by more dialogues, more attacks and more snapping of dialogues. Either the govt. should come out and state that it recognizes that these attacks have nothing to do with the Pakistan govt. and hence we will keep talking to them. But no govt. can say that as it is manifestly untrue. Everyone knows that Army calls the shots in Pakistan and many sections of the Army are hands in glove with the jehadis. You can try your best to be sincere and win their trust, but it won't change a thing. The army in Pakistan derives its power from anti-India feelings. If India becomes a friend, then they would lose their importance and then their power. As for their changing attitude, it is not much of a change to be honest. All this admitting to this and that happens under US pressure and to placate US to get some more billions in aid. All this stuff about Babri Masjid, etc. and linking that to Pakistan's antipathy towards India is quite misplaced. There was antipathy before that. Pakistan was formed because of antipathy. It is in the interests of the jehadi-army complex to keep the antipathy alive. Our talking to them or other such acts of bleeding heart liberals who do candle diplomacy at Wagah border is not going to change a thing. And I'd have agreed with "There is no harm trying", had it not been so counterproductive. Pakistan knows that howsoever audacious their next terrorist attack is, India will get "normal" pretty soon.
Click to expand...
 
kapil.dalal said:
Sudeep,

The importance of continuous dialogue is when it is continuos. Not when it is contingent on the next attack on us. We had the whole bus diplomacy when Vajpayee was there. Following Kargil, that dialogue was snapped. Then without any change on the ground, it was followed by Agra summit. Followed by Parliament attack. Again the dialogue was snapped and we had our army on front positions ready to attack for almost an year. And then it was followed by more dialogues, more attacks and more snapping of dialogues. Either the govt. should come out and state that it recognizes that these attacks have nothing to do with the Pakistan govt. and hence we will keep talking to them. But no govt. can say that as it is manifestly untrue. Everyone knows that Army calls the shots in Pakistan and many sections of the Army are hands in glove with the jehadis. You can try your best to be sincere and win their trust, but it won't change a thing. The army in Pakistan derives its power from anti-India feelings. If India becomes a friend, then they would lose their importance and then their power. As for their changing attitude, it is not much of a change to be honest. All this admitting to this and that happens under US pressure and to placate US to get some more billions in aid. All this stuff about Babri Masjid, etc. and linking that to Pakistan's antipathy towards India is quite misplaced. There was antipathy before that. Pakistan was formed because of antipathy. It is in the interests of the jehadi-army complex to keep the antipathy alive. Our talking to them or other such acts of bleeding heart liberals who do candle diplomacy at Wagah border is not going to change a thing. And I'd have agreed with "There is no harm trying", had it not been so counterproductive. Pakistan knows that howsoever audacious their next terrorist attack is, India will get "normal" pretty soon.
Click to expand...


Okay…so we should cut off all the ties with Pakistan (by the way when did we have a tie with Pakistan) and backed out from the dialogue…..now what will happen… LET’s top commander will stop attacking on India… …is it…or isn’t they want to be happened…sabotage of the dialogue…Possible scenario can be following:

1.India will attack on pak…..and will invite international criticisms…just ask any of the soldier’s family what they feel when India announce the war…their son, husband, brothers are killed four our pride…..when bullets rains over their head what soldiers think…. will they think about country or their family back home waiting for them…
Now why war happens, Main reasons for war are:

Ø Nationalism, asserting that my country is better than yours
Ø Religion, asserting that my god is better than yours
Ø Territorial gain, to get themselves more land to use
Ø Imperialism, for glory and dominance
Ø Racism, asserting that my race is better than yours (Nazi Germany V Russia is a good example; Hitler waged war on the Russians, who were perceived to be inferior (Because they are Slavs. The word slave derives from Slav, who were the slaves of the Ottomans during the middle ages) to the Germans)
Ø Revenge, taking back a loss

Whenever I watch any epic war movie gladiator, troy or brave heart…my testosterone tend to boil the blood…and I say….नेस्तानाबूद कर दो इन नाफरमानो को......आक्रमण...! Go get the hell out of them…..is that a viable option in the heat of anger… :)
Future wars will probably be fought over drinkable water and forestry..:D

2. Let the dialogue sabotage…and send a dossier to pak…put pressure on pak by the international community…aren’t we doing this so far….:confused:

Offence is the best defense when it come to individual endeavor…I used to be very offensive in my school days I used to slap even before my opponents could realize it…that it may happen to them…now can India do it amid nuclear weapon enabled countries…
Can Pakistan be defeated completely so that they wont dare to think of terror attack again…we have had three wars…does situation have improved….

Sri lanka took more then three decades to eliminate LTTE (a terror outfit only) after so much blood bath….and who knows another prabhakaran may emerge… bt offence seems to be worked in this case against a section of the society….i agree!

India is not a super power unlike America…..world’s diplomacy keeps changing like FX so external affairs….!

Though I respect individual’s opinion…so yours!:)
 
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India's foreign policy is a big zero.. Not from recent time , but from 1947 itself.. Nehru raised the issue of Kashmir in UNO, when our Army just wanted 3 days to kill all Pakistani infiltrators and to capture the POK again.. Again in 1972 Shimla Act, Pakistan was on back foot after 71 war, but our foreign policy failed again... Similarly we started bus service to Pakistan. According to Intelligence agencies, more than 100 people who came to India by bus are missing.... Actually India is a soft target... Our leaders don't have spine and courage in handling international issues... Now after this joint statement Pakistan will try to make an image of itself that they are also suffering from the India sposored terrorism in their Balochistan area and he will not do anything on the issue of terrorism sponsored by ISI in India... Pakistan ke case me mujhe 'Tiranga' movie ka ek dialogue yaad aa gaya ki "Pehle laat, fir mulakat or baad me baat"... tabhi Pakistan sudhar sakta hai...
 
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