Rajput and Gujjar Clans overlap with Jat clan names

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Why do Rajput and Gujjar Clan names overlap with Jat clan names? Like in Wikipedia if you look at one page, it says Bargujars are Jats, then if you click on Bargujar it goes to a page that says they are Rajputs, and then finally some places say they are Gujjars.

NOt only for Bargujars this happens, but for Solanki, Sikarwar, Janjua , alot of other clans as well. Why is that?
 
You have raised a very important question, mr, Sikarwar. The abundace of commonality of clan names among the three communities hints at their common origin in the past. the currents of history spurred by the needs of diffusion have lead to several separate identities of these communities. It is also relevant to point out here that the current labels of 'Jat', 'Rajput' and 'Gujar' are not necessarily as old as the communities themselves.I f we imagin as members of a common vedic stock engaged in the main occupation of farming and animal husbandary, with pattern of flexible change overs rom one area to another, there does not remain muich difficulty in explaining the lingering commonality of clan names.
I have responded to your querry rather late, and that tooo vwery briefly. My apologies for the same. Never thje less, let us move on with more querries connected with the issue. Thanks,
S.S.Rana
 
There is no any evidance in history before 5th century about ward Rajput.
These may be converted from Jat's by the Braman's(40 Din ka abu parvat par yag oor Rajputoon ki utpatti).Braman's lost their income that time.Because,Jat's were become's arya samaji and the left murti puja.
 
Oor Jat bhi koi jati nahi thi yahe ek yadhaoon ka group tha.Joki madya asia oor rome se aaya tha.
Kripya nimanlikhit ko paade:-

The Caste System or varna-ashrama has been one of the most misrepresented, misinformed, misunderstood, misused and the most maligned aspects of Hinduism. If one wants to understand the truth, the original purpose behind the caste system, one must go to antiquity to study the evolution of the caste system. <O:P>Caste System, which is said to be the mainstay of the Hindu social order, has no sanction in the Vedas. The ancient culture of India was based upon a system of social diversification according to SPIRITUAL development, not by birth, but by his karma. This system became hereditary and over the course of many centuries degenerated as a result of exploitation by some priests, and other socio-economic elements of society.

However, as Alain Danielou, son of French aristocracy, author of numerous books on philosophy, religion, history and arts of India, says: "Caste system has enabled Hindu civilization to survive all invasions and to develop without revolutions or important changes, throughout more than four millennia, with a continuity that is unique in history. Caste system may appear rigid to our eyes because for more than a thousand years Hindu society withdrew itself from successive domination by Muslims and Europeans. Yet, the greatest poets and the most venerated saints such as Sura Dasa, Kabir, Tukaram, Thiruvalluvar and Ram Dasa; came from the humblest class of society." In the words of Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, " In spite of the divisions, there is an inner cohesion among the Hindu society from the Himalayas to the Cape Comorin."​
</O:P>
 
contd....
Caste system has been exploited against the Hindus, for the last two centuries by the British, Christian Missionaries, Secular historians, Communists, Muslims, Pre and Post-Independence Indian politicians and Journalists for their own ends. One way to discredit any system is to highlight its excesses, and this only adds to the sense of inferiority that many Indians feel about their own culture. Caste system is often portrayed as the ultimate horror, in the media, yet social inequities continue to persist in theoretically Egalitarian Western Societies. The Caste system is judged offensive by the Western norms, yet racial groups have been isolated, crowded into reserves like the American Indians or Australian Aborigines, where they can only atrophy and disappear.
This chapter is not a justification of the abuse of caste system, rather it is a collection of interesting information. Caste system has enabled Hindu civilization to survive all invasions and made Indian society stronger. Caste system served a purpose, performed certain functions, and met the needs appropriate to the times in history. India's caste norms may once have had a rationale; but the norms are outlived today. Caste system is not stagnant and is undergoing changes under the impact of modernization​
 
rakeshdhaka said:
Oor Jat bhi koi jati nahi thi yahe ek yadhaoon ka group tha.Joki madya asia oor rome se aaya tha.
Kripya nimanlikhit ko paade:-

The Caste System or varna-ashrama has been one of the most misrepresented, misinformed, misunderstood, misused and the most maligned aspects of Hinduism. ."​
</O:P>
Click to expand...

Dhaka Sahib

What is relevant to the topic, in your post?

Would you like ot edit it out ?

Ravi Chaudhary
 
Ravi Bhai Sahab,
Yadhaoon means "A group of worrior's.
And below mentioned part is pasted from a history site:-

The Caste System or varna-ashrama has been one of the most misrepresented, misinformed, misunderstood, misused and the most maligned aspects of Hinduism. ."
 
rakeshdhaka said:
Ravi Bhai Sahab,

And below mentioned part is pasted from a history site:-

The Caste System or varna-ashrama has been one of the most misrepresented, misinformed, misunderstood, misused and the most maligned aspects of Hinduism. ."
Click to expand...

Dhaka Sahib

Thank you.

Would you kind enough to inform us what the 'varnaashram' system has to do with overlapping of of clan( goth) names between Gujars, Jats, Rajput?

Most people's idea of the varnashram system refers to the four fold divison in the orthodox Hindu tradition- 'Brahmin/Kshatriya/vaishya/shudhra'


Ravi Chaudhary
 
ravichaudhary said:
Dhaka Sahib

Thank you.

Would you kind enough to inform us what the 'varnaashram' system has to do with overlapping of of clan( goth) names between Gujars, Jats, Rajput?

Most people's idea of the varnashram system refers to the four fold divison in the orthodox Hindu tradition- 'Brahmin/Kshatriya/vaishya/shudhra'


Ravi Chaudhary
Click to expand...
Friends,
The overlapping of gotras among the Jats, Gujars, Rajputs and Ahirs is indicative of the commonality of the stock to which they all belonged. Even today the term jat serves as a general term folr all thnese groups til;l they are required to be separately categorised for c ertain reasons contained in their historical journey of differen tiation. One thin g is more or less settled that the term jat does not indicate caste alone. So is thne case of the term Rajput which came to be used folr a caste as late as the ninth century C.E.
Varna I believe is a notional and theoritical concwpt which we can not plot on the ground.
Similar is the case of the concept of Ashrama. Can we imagine how many people in ancient india went through the four stages of life doing what was supposed to be follolwed. Fiction or the preoccupation of a few privileged should not be taken as a system followed by the society in general.
Thanks,
S.S.Rana
 
rakeshdhaka said:
There is no any evidance in history before 5th century about ward Rajput.
These may be converted from Jat's by the Braman's(40 Din ka abu parvat par yag oor Rajputoon ki utpatti).Braman's lost their income that time.Because,Jat's were become's arya samaji and the left murti puja.
Click to expand...



jats became arya samaji in fifth century .but brahman ki income kya sirf jat se thi?paisa to baniyo ke pass tha waha income kar sakte the ? it means agar arya samaj na hota to rajput jat ho jaate ,gujar ,yadav bamno ko paisa kyo nahi de sakte the , very confusing ,can anybody explain?
 
Few Facts about Clan Overlapping

Most of the overlapping clans are of agnivansh rajputs . Fireborn !!
this agnivanshs tribe were of actually of scythian (tribe) lineage . some of them Became rajput under brahman orthodox and while rest (majority) of them are still in jats and some in gujjar .

Rajputs term came to history only after the mount ab (800 -900 AD) yagya by brahmins . at that time they were known as jats . after yagya they separated from us .

A large community can not be offshoot of small community .



scyhtic tribes merged in following groups
->>>>>> majority Jats
->>>>Rajputs
->>> gujjars
thats why clan overlappiing Exist and jats rajputs gujjar all claim them as ancesters
.
actually they are termed rajputs (royal lineage) in 16 Centuary onwards

Rajputs =son of kings == claim royal heritage there fore they think all kings are rajputs . which is misbeleif
as per wiki pedia of rajputs

Sometime during 16-17th century, the legend came to be applied to the Parihars (Gurjar Pratihaar), Chauhans (Chahamanas), Solankis (Chalukyas), and Paramaras (Parmars) clans. The Parihar at Kannauj, Chauhans at Ajmer in central Rajasthan, the Solankis in Gujarat, and the Paramaras at Mount Abu.
 
singhran said:
jats became arya samaji in fifth century .but brahman ki income kya sirf jat se thi?paisa to baniyo ke pass tha waha income kar sakte the ? it means agar arya samaj na hota to rajput jat ho jaate ,gujar ,yadav bamno ko paisa kyo nahi de sakte the , very confusing ,can anybody explain?
Click to expand...


Friends,

By the term Jat Arya Samaji 5th Century meun ho gaye, which Arya Samaj is being referred to by the Author. We only know about the Arya Samaj founded by Swami Dayanand Sarswati in 1875 in Bombay (now Mumbai). While writing about historical events and evaluating their impact on soiety and polity, one must remain vigilant to keep historical facts and events in mind; distortion of facts is a sin to be avoided at all costs.

regards,

Dr. Raj Pal Singh
 
The artcile Gotra says:

"Initially, there was only one vansha that was Manuvansha. Later one branch started from sons of Manu, which was called Suryavansh and other branch started from daughter of Manu, Ila, that was called Chandravansh. Later to minimize the influence of Buddhism and Jainism in India, the Brahmans organized a grand yagya at mount Abu in Rajasthan, which continued for 40 days. Almost all the ruling clans attended this yagya. The ruling clans which took part in this yagya were titled as ‘Rajputs’. Four Kshatriyas appeared from the agnikunda namely, Solankis, Pratiharas, Chauhans and Paramaras. These were termed Agnivanshi kshatriyas.



According to Agni Purana, Agnivanshi Kshatriyas were born from the fire which resides in Mt. Abu in Northwestern India after the "destruction of ancient Kshatriyas". However, historians interpret this as suggestive of Indo-Scythian origin because this place was entrance gateway for scythic groups in India. In fact lineage of all 36 Rajput ruling clans has been traced to Indo-Scythic races. The ruling clans who took part in the above yagya were termed Rajputs but those who did not take part remained Jats, Gurjars as such in their old clans. Gotras did not change in this process that is why common gotras are found in Jats, Rajputs and Gurjars.



A vansha is connected with ruling clan like Huna vansha in China and Agnivansha in India. All the gotras try to link with some vansha. Those who joined Mount Abu yagya connect their gotra with four Rajput clans namely Solanki, Pratihara, Chauhan, Paramara. Rest connect their gotra with Suryavansha or Chandravansha or some great Rishi or a King."

Source of the Information posted above: http://www.jatland.com/home/Gotra#Vanshas
 
Moar said:
The artcile Gotra says:

"Initially, there was only one vansha that was Manuvansha. Later one branch started from sons of Manu, which was called Suryavansh and other branch started from daughter of Manu, Ila, that was called Chandravansh. Later to minimize the influence of Buddhism and Jainism in India, the Brahmans organized a grand yagya at mount Abu in Rajasthan, which continued for 40 days. Almost all the ruling clans attended this yagya. The ruling clans which took part in this yagya were titled as ‘Rajputs’. Four Kshatriyas appeared from the agnikunda namely, Solankis, Pratiharas, Chauhans and Paramaras. These were termed Agnivanshi kshatriyas.



According to Agni Purana, Agnivanshi Kshatriyas were born from the fire which resides in Mt. Abu in Northwestern India after the "destruction of ancient Kshatriyas". However, historians interpret this as suggestive of Indo-Scythian origin because this place was entrance gateway for scythic groups in India. In fact lineage of all 36 Rajput ruling clans has been traced to Indo-Scythic races. The ruling clans who took part in the above yagya were termed Rajputs but those who did not take part remained Jats, Gurjars as such in their old clans. Gotras did not change in this process that is why common gotras are found in Jats, Rajputs and Gurjars.



A vansha is connected with ruling clan like Huna vansha in China and Agnivansha in India. All the gotras try to link with some vansha. Those who joined Mount Abu yagya connect their gotra with four Rajput clans namely Solanki, Pratihara, Chauhan, Paramara. Rest connect their gotra with Suryavansha or Chandravansha or some great Rishi or a King."

Source of the Information posted above: http://www.jatland.com/home/Gotra#Vanshas
Click to expand...

Excerpt from ' http://www.kipling.org.uk/rg_marque_royalraces.htm ' :


"The Rajputs proper were of mixed origin – pre-Muslim invaders such as Scythians, Bactrians, Parthians, Hunas and Gurjaras who came in before, say, the end of the 7th century." ( Source: http://www.kipling.org.uk/rg_marque_royalraces.htm )
 
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