Research on history of Jat clans

DrRajpalSingh said:
In recent past humanities including history has suffered as not favourable subject in comparison to computer/engineering and other professional courses. Nonetheless, many a young scholars in different universities are taking interest in study of history.
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Exactly.
In addition, the US World View has dominated for quite some time, They themselves have hardly any past and as such some thing to talk about their own. Surely they have been in a position to determine what is gain ful
to study.
 
sirohi14 said:
Most of the active members are very senior and youth is not very active. Are we not connected to young generation of us properly?
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Young people are welcome to raise questions and seek relevant answers. Old generation would be happy to attempt answering. But we have to work hard to be able to raise questions. I would think that many a times the answers ly in the questions. Let us sail on.
 
Thanks Dr Rana as always. We should give some examples of how different groups in contemporary society had common origin in the past. Gotr origin is one way to do that, which got split over time and again and ended up as parts of different groups that we see now.

I will try to provide few examples, time permitting.

Maybe we can start somewhere. You provided one such good example of Rana originating from Chaudaharana (Chaudhary). I always think of Chauhans with their origins which later split in different groups, as discussed quite a bit here and in Jat History group maintained by Mr Ravi Chaudhary.

drssrana2003 said:
Laxman Ji,

You have undertaken a tough job, indeed. Tracing gotra names is a task full of challenges- of remoteness of time, changes in language, apparent similarities of sound with no real relationship in meaning , even sounds having undergone changes beyond recognition. This Yaska summarises in one sentence, namely , 'Vishayavatyo hi vrittayah bhavanti' i.e. word forms are very complex.

But never the less Yaska is a great votary of the Science of etymology. He thinks it is always worth while to attempt etymologies of words as long as you do not loose track of the core meaning. And never give up on yourmission.So good luck and best wishes. But please ponder and look back sometimes to consolidate.
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nrao said:
Thanks Dr Rana as always. We should give some examples of how different groups in contemporary society had common origin in the past. Gotr origin is one way to do that, which got split over time and again and ended up as parts of different groups that we see now.

I will try to provide few examples, time permitting.

Maybe we can start somewhere. You provided one such good example of Rana originating from Chaudaharana (Chaudhary). I always think of Chauhans with their origins which later split in different groups, as discussed quite a bit here and in Jat History group maintained by Mr Ravi Chaudhary.
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Feeling good seeing you here after a long time, Naveen ji.
Chauhans appear to be the last to branch off into the neo-caste group from among the common group ironically labelled as 'Jat' by Arabo-persian population on our west. This process could have started around the Arab conquest of Sindh. The pejorative connotation of the term 'Jat' must have been a factor in this separation/disconnect. The history of the term ;Rajput' does suggest such a process.
 
drssrana2003 said:
Feeling good seeing you here after a long time, Naveen ji.
Chauhans appear to be the last to branch off into the neo-caste group from among the common group ironically labelled as 'Jat' by Arabo-persian population on our west. This process could have started around the Arab conquest of Sindh. The pejorative connotation of the term 'Jat' must have been a factor in this separation/disconnect. The history of the term ;Rajput' does suggest such a process.
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Dr. Sahib,

The views expressed in the post under reference, if you support them with reference material, may add New dimension in historical research of both the Jats and Rajputs history!

But as they stand now, your general sweeping statement instead of satisfying quest for knowledge, have roused my curiosity to know from you what you have to say on :

This statement indirectly leads one to believe that the word 'Jat' was first coined in literature by the so called Arbo-Persian people and that too in pejorative sense to denounce Jat people ! Does the post not portray it so or not ?

What is the reference material to support that the allegedly ''pejorative connotation of the term 'Jat' of Sindh by some Arabo-Persians led Chohan Jats to separate themselves from the parent Jat group and invent and adopt for themselves new term 'Rajput' !

What about separation of other common clans than chohans from the Jats !

In which Arbo-Persian source are you referring to in which you find the term Jat used in derogatory sense to denote the whole of the community/race/people/caste known as Jats in India and abroad !

Were the Jats as good traders, doctors and warriors not known to Arab world many many years prior to the so called Sindh Conquest by Arabs in 8th Century AD.

Were there no Jats in other parts of India prior to Conquest of Sindh and were they also addressed by the 'pejorative connotation' only or were there any other better or worse words used for the Jat community in Arabic and Persian sources that you have consulted !

Kindly share your findings on these and allied points please so that we could update ourselves on the issue. The questions have been posed to your goodself thinking that you might have taken up these topics for threadbare analyses in your monograph published a few months ago.

Thanks and regards
 
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I am not good at sweeping.

2.Arabo-Persians have among them class of people known as 'Jaat/Jat (with soft 't'). They are held in low esteem.The Arabs called all hindus/Indians 'Jats' on analogy basis.
3. The pejorative meaning is inherent in the term and its derivatives in many cases- language, food , colour, clothes, manners all get that sense when in association of the term.
4. Go through the Chachhnamah to get the feel.
 
Agirl, Rama Vij came complaining one day, "sir that jat boy harassed me a while ago." Summoned in my office the boy told his name as Sat Narayan Gupta. I asked girl why did she called the GU[TA BOY A JAT.She replied: He looks like one and speaks like one (i.e. jat). You may draw your own conclusion.
 
To much stock is given to the reference to a jat doctor managing the health of Hazrat Sahibs youngest wife AISHA. The doctor here was no trained physician but a jhaada lagaane waala rustic. We remember in our younger days we saw people of lower castes demonstrating such skills. It will not be exact descrition if we give them the label of Doctor.
 
If one goes through the lists of Punjab castes and tribes compiled by Ibbetson in the nineteenth century one would fined several (many) entries of the so called Khatri Punjabis listed as jat.Mull over it.Is not Khatri an escape from jat?
 
Right from the Vedic times the term 'Rajputa' gave the literal meaning of the 'son pf a king'. Same is the case in Panini and Kautilya. It is only in some inscriptions of land grants of about the 7 th/ 8th century A.D.that the ter came to be used for a representative of the kung, not necessarily a kings son. Lter the representative stated getting some land grants as a Rajputra(officer. The core sense of closeness to the king continied. The tribe multiplied in layers after layers and we got a whole class including the priviled and also their adherents in addition. Followers of the king also got for themselves the label? Do we not see it happening in our own times- shifting sides for some profit?
 
During the earliest years of census conducted by the British, the numerators had a real problem. There many cases where the people were not sure whether they should register their caste as Jat or as Rajput. Perhaps the common bonds were in memory and the new labels were not well decided. This also explains the commonality of gotras in large number of cases. There can be studies made of the factors in addition to the pejorative connotation responsible for the shifting of labels.
 
It may be interesting to notice the 'chaudhrans' shifting first to 'chaudaahrana' and finally dropping the initial part retained the more respectable label 'Rana' in the process cloding doors for inter marriage between all kinds of exogamous hopefuls being ruled out for alliance in marriage. Another example is the Maachhars. In stead of sanskrising to the more plausible label 'Matsara' the choice fell on a pan Indian label of Maathur to hoodwink the most successful caste among the kaayasthas( whose stock in ancient times was not so good as during the Mughal days and subsequently).
 
drssrana2003 said:
I am not good at sweeping.

2.Arabo-Persians have among them class of people known as 'Jaat/Jat (with soft 't'). They are held in low esteem.The Arabs called all hindus/Indians 'Jats' on analogy basis.
3. The pejorative meaning is inherent in the term and its derivatives in many cases- language, food , colour, clothes, manners all get that sense when in association of the term.
4. Go through the Chachhnamah to get the feel.
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To understand relation between जात and जाट we need to understand which of these two words came in use first. We need some linguistic research which alphabetic group was invented first

ट ठ ड ढ ण ? or त थ द ध न ?
 
drssrana2003 said:
Agirl, Rama Vij came complaining one day, "sir that jat boy harassed me a while ago." Summoned in my office the boy told his name as Sat Narayan Gupta. I asked girl why did she called the GU[TA BOY A JAT.She replied: He looks like one and speaks like one (i.e. jat). You may draw your own conclusion.
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During my posting in Shivpuri as Conservator of Forests one boy and a girl from Hisar Agri University Haryana had come to study behavior of Tigers. From their surnames I could guess that they were Jats. After long discussion on Tigers and Forests I revealed my identity as Jat. They were surprised. They said - You don't look like a Jat by look, by language and by behavior. But I am very much a Jat !!!
 
History of Tewatia Clan

B S Dahiya[SUP][1][/SUP] writes that Certain coins were found at Ujjain and are described by K.P.Jayaswal. [SUP][2][/SUP] A coin has a river with a fish on one side; it has a legend in the oldest form of Brahmi, reading Tubathi or Turbathi. Probably its Sanskrit equivalent is Turvasti. Coin seems to be older than Maurya times. The name which is a place name, appears to be connected with the dynastic name Turvasha. The reverse has a tree on the ground marked with a square. These are the observation of late Dr. K P Jayaswal. His reading of the name, Tubathi is practically correct it should be tevathi / Tuvathi but it is not place name it is a clan name of the Jats. The symbols of water (with fish) and earth (with tree) are the tradition symbols of the Jats (Dharti-Pani in Hindi) It is perhaps, older than Mauryan times. Tabiti is the name of the fire goddess of the Scythians. If these suppositions are correct then it shows that the Tevathiya Jats came to India during Achaemenid disturbance. [SUP][3][/SUP] [SUP][4][/SUP]
Tevatia Jats believe that they have migrated from village named Tevti/Teoti. There is one village of this name in Bharatpur. There is also a village of this name near Ujjain.

River Tapti is considered to be named after this gotra.

From this indication of their getting name from Tapti River I did some research on Tapti River.

Tapti River (ताप्ती), ancient original name Tapati River (तपती), is a river in central India. It is one of the major rivers of peninsular India with a length of around 724 kms. It is one of only three rivers in peninsular India that run from east to west - the others being the Narmada River and the Mahi River.

The Tapi River originates in the Betul district from a place called Multai, in Madhya Pradesh state. The Sanskrit name of Multai is Mulatapi, meaning origin of Tāpī Mātā or the Tapti River. Tapati is the daughter of Surya, the Sun God and his wife, Chhaya. Tapti is also known as sister of Lord Shani.

The river rises in the eastern Satpura Range of southern Madhya Pradesh state, and flows westward, draining Madhya Pradesh's Nimar region, Maharashtra's Kandesh and east Vidarbha regions in the northwest corner of the Deccan Plateau and south Gujarat, before emptying into the Gulf of Cambay of the Arabian Sea, in the Surat District of Gujarat. The river, along with the northern parallel Narmada River, form the boundaries between North and South India. The Western Ghats or Sahyadri range starts south of the Tapti River near the border of Gujarat and Maharashtra. The Tapti (Tapi) River empties into the Gulf of Khambhat near the city of Surat in Gujarat.


Tapati in Mahabharata

Adi Parva, Mahabharata/Mahabharata Book I Chapter 89 tells us History of Puru and Pandavas (Aila dynasty).

  • Riksha begat Samvarana, the perpetuator of the royal line. And, O king, it hath been heard by us that while Samvarana, the son of Riksha, was ruling the earth, there happened a great loss of people from famine, pestilence, drought, and disease. And the Bharata princes were beaten by the troops of enemies. And the Panchalas setting out to invade the whole earth with their four kinds of troops soon brought the whole earth under their sway. And with their ten Akshauhinis the king of the Panchalas defeated the Bharata prince. Samvarana then with his wife and ministers, sons and relatives, fled in fear, and took shelter in the forest on the banks of the Sindhu extending to the foot of the mountains. There the Bharatas lived for a full thousand years, within their fort. And after they had lived there a thousand years, one day the illustrious Rishi Vasishtha approached the exiled Bharatas, who, on going out, saluted the Rishi and worshipped him by the offer of Arghya. And entertaining him with reverence, they represented everything unto that illustrious Rishi. And after he was seated on his seat, the king himself approached the Rishi and addressed him, saying, 'Be thou our priest, O illustrious one! We will endeavour to regain our kingdom.' And Vasishtha answered the Bharatas by saying, 'Om' (the sign of consent). It hath been heard by us that Vasishtha then installed the Bharata prince in the sovereignty of all the Kshatriyas on earth, making by virtue of his Mantras this descendant of Puru the veritable horns of the wild bull or the tusks of the wild elephants. And the king retook the capital that had been taken away from him and once more made all monarchs pay tribute to him. The powerful Samvarana, thus installed once more in the actual sovereignty of the whole earth, performed many sacrifices at which the presents to the Brahmanas were great.



References

1. Jats the Ancient Rulers (A clan study)/Jat Clan in India,p. 276

2. Journal of Bihar and Orissa Society, 1936, vol. XVII, p.65

3.Rowlinson’s Herodotus, Vol. III, p. 160

4. Bhim Singh Dahiya, Jats the Ancient Rulers ( A clan study), p. 276
 
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drssrana2003 said:
If one goes through the lists of Punjab castes and tribes compiled by Ibbetson in the nineteenth century one would fined several (many) entries of the so called Khatri Punjabis listed as jat.Mull over it.Is not Khatri an escape from jat?
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Dr. Sahib,

I am interested in knowing as indicated in my post as direct question whether any reference has been found during writing of your monograph about existence of Jats on the earth/in India prior to 8th Century AD [the Sindh Conquest by Arabs] or not; if yes- what word were used to address them ! Or it were only the Arbo Persians who invented word 'Jat' with soft 't' as stated by you in your above post.


A direct reply is still expected from you - at this stage of discussion I am not interested in Khatri,Rajput-Jat-Bania resemblance, class room incident, census reports, Ibbetson et all.

Thanks and regards
 
Another attempt.

The label jat is later used by Arab world. The people are most ancient Vedic people known by words like krishaka, karshaka.
 
drssrana2003 said:
Another attempt.

The label jat is later used by Arab world. The people are most ancient Vedic people known by words like krishaka, karshaka.
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Dr Sahib,

Conversely you seem to convey that it were the Arabs who coined the word 'Jat' for the first time for the community now known as 'Jats' and earlier they were addressed by other words only such as noted in your post under reference. If I am in the wrong to draw this inferrence from discussion with you, kindly correct me !

Thanks and regards
 
Historians handle the broth with their own investigations. They do not interrogate like journalists to make a story. They just get a hint and dig with their own spade.
No one has to coin things; It is a case of extension of existing labels by way of analogy-analogy of appearance, vocation, status in general etc.
 
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