Roma Gypsies - Jats ?

sampuran

New member
The review by CJS Walia (http://www.indiastar.com/wallia2.htm) of a book "Bury Me Standing" throws up some more Missing Links in Jat History.

Gypsies, the long-lost children of India, number about 12 million worldwide. In Europe, the 8 million Gypsies constitute its largest minority. Recent films like Tony Gatlif's Latcho Drom: A Musical History of the Gypsies from India to Spain (1994) and books like Isabel Fonseca's Bury Me Standing: The Gypsies and their Journey (1996) will help ensure that the Gypsies do not again disappear -- outside the world's consciousness.
Bury Me Standing -- the title comes from the Gypsy saying, "Bury me standing, I've been on my knees all my life"-- is a compassionate book about a marginalized and much-maligned people. Nonetheless, over the past seven centuries, the Gypsies have made many contributions to European folk music, dance, and lore. An outstanding example of these contribitions --Flameno-- highlights the Cannes award-winning Latcho Drom .
When Isabel Fonseca, an American journalist and former assistant editor of the Times Literary Supplement, set out to write this book in 1991, she "had in mind that the Gypsies were 'the New Jews of Eastern Europe.'" After four years of field work that included living with Gypsy families in many European countries and researching library documents, she concluded that the Gypsies "alongside with the Jews are ancient scapegoats."
Traditionally, Gypsies never kept any written records nor sustained an oral history. The research on their origin began with a systematic philological analysis of their language, Romani, which has been firmly established as a Sanskritic language. Words like dand, (tooth), mun, (mouth), lon, (salt), akha (eyes), khel (play) are identical with those in Punjabi spoken in northwest India. Fonseca does not comment on the obvious resemblance with Punjabi, presumably because of her unfamiliarity with it or any other modern Indian language. She is also puzzled by the Gypsy habit of shaking head side-to-side to signify yes. This distinctive gesture alone suffices to pinpoint their India origin -- rendering all linguistic evidence redundant! If confirmation were needed, it would be readily provided by the Gypsy music's use of the Indian ragas such as Bairavi, Mulkausa, and Kalyani as well as the bol (the rhythmic syllables -- tak, dhin, dha -- imitating drum beats).
Fonseca seems to think that the current scholarly consensus is that the Gypsies are from the Dom group of tribes, still extant in India, making their living as wandering musicians, smiths, metalworkers, scavengers, and basketmakers. They migrated first from northwest India to Persia in 950 A.D. at the invitation of Shah Behram Gur. As recorded by the contemporary Persian historian Hamza, the Shah "out of solicitude for his subjects, imported 12,000 musicians for their listening pleasure."
Fonseca errs in stating that the Gypsy designation for themsleves as Roma is derived from Dom, one of the outcaste tirbes in India. Roma is a variation of "ramante," a Punjabi word meaning moving, wandering. This etymology is cogently discussed in W.R. Rishi's book "ROMA: The Panjabi Emigrants in Europe, second edition" published in 1996 by Punjabi University, Patiala, Punjab, India. Rishi traces the origin of the Roma to the 500, 000 prisoners of war taken by Muhamad Ghaznvi in 1001 from the Punjab to Afghanistan and subjected to Islamic conversion by the sword. Many of them resisted by escaping westward to the Christian lands of Armenia and Greece. To this day, the Roma use the word Gajo, derived from Ghazi-- the Koranic title of infidel-killing Muslims-- as a disparaging term. The Roma are from the warrior castes of the Punjab.
The Roma appeared in Europe first in 1300 A.D., fleeing from forcible Islamic conversions by the Turks. In Europe, ironically, they were accused of being advance spies for the Turks, and persecuted again. They were also mistaken as Egyptians, whence the folklore origin of the term Gypsy. Fonseca apparently is unaware of yet another etymology: Punjab-say -- from Punjab, which was what the earliest immigrants to Persia replied when asked where they have come from. By the time, they reached Byzantium, the locals heard Punjab-say as Jabsay, Gypsy. The locals took Gypsy to mean from Egypt, a country they had heard of.
The history of the Roma in Europe, gleaned, for the most part, from court- and church-records and from rare academic publications, is a horror--Europe's heart of darkness. One of the examples Fonseca cites is the 1783 dissertation published by Heinrich Grellman of Gottingen University. In his book, Grellman describes an event of the previous year in Hont county, Hungary: "The case involved more than 150 Gypsies, forty-one of whom were tortured into confessions of cannibalism. Fifteen men were hanged, six broken on the wheel, two quartered, and eighteen women beheaded -- before an investigation ordered by the Hapsburg monarch Joseph II revealed that all of the supposed victims were still alive."
During World War II, the Nazis exterminated 1.5 million Gypsies. At the Nuremberg trials, the Nazis' lawyers argued that the killing of the Gypsies was justified since they had been punished as criminals, not as a race. There was no one to speak for the Gypsies, and the international tribunal accepted this as exonerating defense! Ah, humanity.
Although tyrants, bigots, and the misinformed have often stereotyped the Gypsies as congenital criminals, sociological studies show that the Gypsies commit crimes no more than others. A large-scale study cited by Fonseca: In Romania, which has the largest Gypsy population of any country, out of all criminal convictions that of the Gypsies total 11 percent. Their population in the country? Exactly 11 percent. (The Gypsies in Romania do not have equal access to the justice system. Their situation is worse than that of the Blacks and Hispanics in the U.S.A.)
In recent decades, a Gypsy intelligentsia has begun to emerge. Fonseca presents detailed profiles of several. Dr. Ian Hancock, an American Gypsy, and the author of The Pariah Syndrome, was instrumental in bringing about, in April 1994, the first-ever Congressional hearing in Washington, D.C., on the human-rights abuses of the Gypsies. After prolonged efforts, Hancock also succeeded in the Gypsy inclusion in the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Gypsy inclusion had long been opposed by Elie Wiesel, the Nobel Peace Prize winner! It was only after Wiesel's resignation, writes Fonseca, herself an American Jew, that one Gypsy was allowed onto the museum's 65-member council. (The council comprised more than thirty Jews as well as Poles, Ukranians, and Russians among others but not a single Gypsy.)
Saip Jusuf is the author of one of the first Romani grammars and a principal leader in Skopje, Macedonia, which has the largest Gypsy settlement anywhere. Jusuf helped organize the first world Romany Congress in 1971 in London. The conference was financed in part by the Government of India, and at its urging the U.N. agreed first to recognize the Rom as a distinct ethnic group and several years later accorded voting rights to the International Romani Union.
In an interview with the author, Jusuf, having converted from Islam to his ancestral Hinduism, joyously displayed his new icon collection of Ganesha, Parvati, and Durga . Ramche Mustupha, a poet, showed his passport. Under "citizenship" it recorded Yugoslav; under "nationality," Hindu. The lost children of India, having found their ancestral land, are very proud of its ancient civilization -- the oldest continuous civilization in the world -- "Amaro Baro Thanh" (Romani for "our big land"). Fonseca observes: "Many of the young women, fed up with the baggy-bottomed Turkish trousers they were supposed to wear, have begun to wear saris."
Unlike other beleaguered and marginalized minorities, the Rom are not seeking a homeland of their own, a Romanistan, in or outside India. The Rom are resisting, as they always have, to maintain the freedom for a life-style of their choosing. "To allow this to the Gypsies," Vaclav Havel, in Prague, said, "is the litmus test of a civil society." However, Havel's is a lonely voice. All over Central and East Europe "Death to the Gypsies" graffiti can be observed. Since the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslavakia, twenty-eight Gypsies have been murdered.
Fonseca cites several specific cases of terrorism against the Gypsies during the 90's. "In February 1995, in Oberwart, Austria, a town seventy-five miles south of Vienna, four Gypsy men were murdered. A pipe bomb had been concealed behind a sign that said, in Gothic tombstone lettering, 'Gypsies go back to India'; the bomb exploded in their faces when they tried to take it down. The first response of the Austrian police was to search the victims' own settlement for weapons; 'Gypsies killed by own bomb,' the papers reported." Oberwart, Austria, is in Burgenland, where the Gypsies have been settled for three centuries.
The resurging repression of the Gypsies is Europe's continuing crime against humanity. At the Nazi trials in Nuremberg, there was no one to speak on behalf of the Gypsies. Now, the Gypsies have at least this eloquent book exposing Europe's recrudescing genocidal threats to them.
 
Why would they escape west, into enemy territory and not east into friendly territory?


CJS Walia, if you see his writings, is a Punjabi Khatri Sikh. Thye fall into the category of Patwant singh, J S Grewal( coauthoring a book with Irfan habib), who are trying to show the Jats of Punjab as low caste, and they stayed low caste until the high caste Khatri guru's uplifted them.

This is recurrent them.

I asked CJS Walia, as to whether Patwant Singh was a Khatri or Jat Sikh, and what his Goth was. He refused to answer.


How would Ghazni capture and take awy 500,000 captives?

One presiume the 500,000 figure is the number for those who surviced,. asd they crossed the Hindu Koh ( Hindu Killer mountain- The Hindu Kush), te orioginal fifure mus have been much higher.

Say 10 times.

5 million was probably the whole population of punjab!.

The same for the 12,000 ministrels? Where does this story come from, and since when were Jats predominantly ministrels?

The stories are largely baseless!

The power of media being what it is, many Europoean, Roma Historians see this link with the well known Jats, Getae, as their way out.

If shaking one's head from left to right, as signifying "yes' makes one come from India, and if that makes good historical reasoning, to say thatb one is stumped, is a bit of an understatement.

We discussed this on the Jathistory group, see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/218

Roma

and follow up messages


Ravi Chaudhary
 
I dont know if they are Jats are not but I have been to the gypsy museum near my place and by language, cloths, etc etc on display there is a definite link to India.

They are looked down by almost every country in the west and are living on the margins of the society.
 
Roma Gypsies

This is just a Book review by Sh Walia. Of course, he amy have personal biases or agendas in painting Jats as low caste. To the UPites and Haryanvis it may sound ludicurous. But in Rajasthan Jats are included in the OBCs for reservations. That may be a ppolitical decision, but can Brahmins stake that kind of a claim without having some basis ?

Numbers may be incorrect or misleading. Even I was surprised why would so many thousands migrate, when they were warrior class and preferred to fight. Early muslims inIndia themselves were never more than a couple of thousand. It is just that Hindus were not as scheming, cruel and immoral as the muslims.

The book is written by a westerner. The author isnt familiar with Indian society and culture. Quite likely that many obvious similarities were missed out.
 
rroma

in my country romania are 2 million rroma(gypsy).in their language rom mean man.parently are a mixxed of more then one people nation.they are separated on fields of activity:brik makers,gold object makers,musicians,ursare, cocalare.some say that are original jews that go in india in the time of solomon.but today only 4% of them have a working place.the rest of them are lasy and take their subzistence from the state budget , or win money from ilegal activites.in my opinion came from rajastan,but only some of them have similarites whit the jats.
 
S>his is just a Book review by Sh Walia. Of course, he amy have personal biases or agendas in painting Jats as low caste.

Response> There is no such thing as JUST a book review. Walai could have picked up nay book out the millions published every year.

He chose this one. Why?



Sampuran> To the UPites and Haryanvis it may sound ludicurous. But in Rajasthan Jats are included in the OBCs for reservations. That may be a ppolitical decision, but can Brahmins stake that kind of a claim without having some basis ?

Response> it is not ludicrous. U, P Jats are quite Happy, and I support it too, that the Jats now have a quota. That has increased the number of Jats in the medical college in Meerut for example. A chance they would never have got otherwise.

Out Jats are becoming more and more backward everyday-. The main cause is lack of education facilities in rural area, - no schools, no equipment, and no teachers. T

A Brahmin in a rural area, without education or an occupation is going to be backward as an uneducated chamar or an uneducated Jat. When the Jat Sarv Khap system was destroyed, it did not take the British more than a couple of generations to reduce the Jats to little above serfdom.




Sampuran> Numbers may be incorrect or misleading. Even I was surprised why would so many thousands migrate, when they were warrior class and preferred to fight. Early Muslims in India themselves were never more than a couple of thousand. It is just that Hindus were not as scheming, cruel and immoral as the Muslims.

Response> you are correct to be surprised. The story does not make any sense. We unfortunately are too conditioned, and believe any nonsense anyone writes!

Ghaznavi could not done the kind of capturing that is ascribed to him. He got hammered on his way back form the Somnath raid. He had to travel back through the desert, and barely made it, hungry and thirsty to Multan. Most of his army perished.

His 17th expedition (to punish the Jats) never happened, it was a story made up 500 years later.

Ghori got his got cut off by the Jats.

Does that sound to like people who captured 500,000 Indians and took them to slavery in Arabia?

May writers, like Walia, keep insisting the all who were captured were low caste Jats. What were the Muslims doing asking if a person was a Jat, and capturing him/her, leaving all other communities be?.

Sampuran> The book is written by a westerner. The author isnt familiar with Indian society and culture. Quite likely that many obvious similarities were missed out.

Response> All the more reason to be careful about accepting the opinions of people, who are not familiar with the culture.


One main reason for encouraging Jats to study their history, is so that they understand their heritage, and can give proper responses when they come across such garbage.

Study your history, and teach your children.
 
The reason for saying that it was just a review was to emphasise that the original ideas are that of the author, not Sh Walias.

It was posted as a topic for discussion, not that I was fully convinced myself of all its contents and claims.

Ludicurous it is though people may be happy. Can Jats of Rajasthan claim to be Backward caste ? Or those in Delhi ? That it provides reservations is another matter. We want to usurp whatever possible by any means. Does that affect the argument that Jats are actually not backward caste.
Ditto for an eneducated resourceless poor Brahmin. He can claim to be backward, not backward caste.

British played havok with our society. Much more than the muslims could do in 600 years inspite of all their cruelity and thuggery.
Coming up - How British started dowry system in Punjab.
 
sampuran said:
The reason for saying that it was just a review was to emphasise that the original ideas are that of the author, not Sh Walias.



Response>>>The orginal ideas, whatever they were are not the issue.

Walia is fanning the flames.

The original author may be misinformed and unaware. that can be dealt with

Walia is aware, and doing what he does deliberately

Walia is a riot creator, a rabble rouser.




It was posted as a topic for discussion, not that I was fully convinced myself of all its contents and claims.

Reposne> I hope you and others question the Walias of the world when you run into them.




Ludicurous it is though people may be happy. Can Jats of Rajasthan claim to be Backward caste ? Or those in Delhi ? That it provides reservations is another matter. We want to usurp whatever possible by any means. Does that affect the argument that Jats are actually not backward caste.
Ditto for an eneducated resourceless poor Brahmin. He can claim to be backward, not backward caste.

Response> Caste is a Brahminical Hindu system.

Dear Sampuran, No disrespect to you , If you follow caste, you are below the Brahmin!! Is that how you see youself?

The Jats do not follow caste- Jats follow vedic principles, and they produce Rishis, sants, warriors, traders, criminals everything.

Those who became slaves to Brahministic thinking became rajputs, and were no longer Jats





British played havok with our society. Much more than the muslims could do in 600 years inspite of all their cruelity and thuggery.
Coming up - How British started dowry system in Punjab.


Response> this is Veena Talwar type of thinking.

Dowry( Dahej) has been part of all societies since time immerorial.

The Muslims did plenty of damage, the Brahmins did plenty of damage, and the Jats who collobrated with t he Muslims. British, brahmins did plenty of damage.


The Jats who refuse to educate themselves and their kids do even more damage

A humble suggestion, and plaese forgive me for the sharpness of my tone,
we should stop crying about yesterday and focus on how we can uplift our society today

Best regards
 
Roma gypsies

Stop crying over past but think of future.


Very right. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. Thats why knowing the past is meaningful. You may know and has reached a stage of maturity. Everyone does not.


Caste does not matter to me personally. (Pl read my thread Do WE Jats Have It In Us in the current affairs section of this forum)

The creation of Rajput has a historical reason. Whether the Brahmins did so for their own selfish reasons can be debated. But the fact remains more of Indians would have been Arabian slaves today had the Jat not taken up arms as Rajputs.

I dont know Veena Talwar, but the kind of rules governments make, do affect people's behaviour. Even when most of the effects are not intentioned.
 
Gypsy are original from Bangladesh (base on linguistic and hystorical studies).They migrate in Punjab and from there west-ward throu Bisantine Empire.
A sample of gypsy language here:bucurizaman but, ca arachleom adaucha saitos rromano ca pota mai borizau li ma chanicasa, andar amara rromanda[amara ursarea]. ma tzidaman andarco Tirgu-frumos, hai basau ando Arad da dasupanj bas. Li ma li mi rromni sam othara amari chai lotili ando Arad, hai butivar puchal aman gajicanas ca so fala rrom sam ama ca atara antarco Arad borizalpas avarfelos. Atha anda diz si but feloiea rrom[unguritica, caldararea[numai ca adlcha rrom na na phiravanpas sar o caldararea andarca moldova]piravanpas sar ama cai na na piras rromana butea. Hai mai si but feloiea rroma. Placizalasmanga ta arachau rroma amara chibatar hai ta borizamanga rromanes o pra adalcha saitosta rromangoro andara .
The name rom came from the gypsy word rom(man,husband)and is related whit word of a indian tribe name Dom.
 
Agreed any body who has seen Doms can immidiately identify gypsy with them.I don't understand why such a simple observation which can be observed even by Soko escapes our eyes.Gypsies don't differ with doms in any way who till this day has the same style same language culture,do almost similar work totally different from jats in any respect.Who got the enligtenment of seeing jat connection with them?
 
Since I joined this group recently many of my reactions are too late. Iwent through this thread and observed there is no mention of jats relation to gypsies except a suggested link by Sampuran ji (what base he may tell).

Sampuran ji says jats took sword as rajputs.Hope you will stick to your view when ever you will disclose wether you are rajput or jat .
This means rajputs descended from jats
Brahmans used rajputs or rajputs used brahamans which version do you believe? If we believe your version why the legend was ascribed to only parmars not to all the gotras like tomars etc.who were ruling delhi and were to face the muslims if you suggest so.
Do you find mention of a ny Sabha of Brahmans recmmending giving rajputs status to jats to defend India against Islamic tide which Jats did more than hundred years and were the target brahman directed persecution of them in Sindhs by muslims.Do you believe that rajputs served this historical purpose by aligning with(jai singh etc.) or inviting(rana sangha,jaipal) muslim invaders?


Stop spreading lies atleast now in modern times.It was their choice what they did to their brothers STOP inventing justification for their acts and acts of Dronacharya.
 
narenderkharb said:
Since I joined this group recently many of my reactions are too late. Iwent through this thread and observed there is no mention of jats relation to gypsies except a suggested link by Sampuran ji (what base he may tell).

Sampuran ji says jats took sword as rajputs.Hope you will stick to your view when ever you will disclose wether you are rajput or jat .
This means rajputs descended from jats
Brahmans used rajputs or rajputs used brahamans which version do you believe? If we believe your version why the legend was ascribed to only parmars not to all the gotras like tomars etc.who were ruling delhi and were to face the muslims if you suggest so.
Do you find mention of a ny Sabha of Brahmans recmmending giving rajputs status to jats to defend India against Islamic tide which Jats did more than hundred years and were the target brahman directed persecution of them in Sindhs by muslims.Do you believe that rajputs served this historical purpose by aligning with(jai singh etc.) or inviting(rana sangha,jaipal) muslim invaders?


Stop spreading lies atleast now in modern times.It was their choice what they did to their brothers STOP inventing justification for their acts and acts of Dronacharya.


First of all let me clarify that my Gotr is Gahlot. Now you decide what you want to call me. In Rajasthan Gahlots are considered Maalis. In Haryana, UP and Delhi they are Jats. Choice is yours.

Brahmins used Rajputs or other way around. I dont believe either.
Both had mutual stake and requirement of that time to join hands and fight the outsiders.

No plausible explanation exists about origin of Rajputs. There are many common Gotras between Rajputs and Jats. Since Jats have been in existance since very ancient times, my view is that Rajputs are descendents of Jats. Pl enlighten about yours or some other reasonable theory.

Infighting has been the bane of Indian society. Muslim invadors and then the British made ample use of it. There were never more than 1 lakh outsider muslims or Britishers in India. Yet they managed to subjugate about a third of humanity (Indias population). Only because small princes and rajas would connive with them to maintain their own security. Many times they were successful, many a times the foreigners turned on them. Even today Jat politicians (they are new age kings) fight each other tooth and nail. Whereas others co-operate to share the booty.
That no way means two people fighting or using outside support are not related. Even when Marathas were driving the muslims out, they still had rivalry with the Rajputs of rajsthan. Because having lived together for ages, they knew each other's terroterial ambitions. What both did not realise is that Muslims were a new kind of threat. Muslims were not guided so much by territory but by looting, rape, (maal-e-ganimat) as Prophet Mohammed called it. And zeal to convert dar-ul-harb into dar-ul-islaam.
Such kind of things were not done whenever Indian kings fought amongst themselves. Wholesome destruction of a civillisation was never an ideology of Indian kings / civillisation. In the initial days of his rise, when the wife of a slain Maratha chieftain who connived with the Muslims was brought to Shivaji, he had her sent back honourably.

What nobody in India or elsewhere realised was that Islam was a different type of ideology that was based on subjugation. Even today muslim ideologues frankly say that their agenda is to convert or subjugate the world through jihad.
So ignorant Indians or weak ones co-operated with the muslims not realising that they themselves were as much targets of muslims as their enemies.
 
About Maharana Sanga

Maharana Sanga a democrat
By Dr Ganeshilal Verma

RANA Sangram Singh of Mewar was a valorous King and was regarded as ‘Hindupat’ i.e. Hindu Emperor. His achievements were numerous. Erskine a renowned historian says: “Rana Sanga’s attainments inspired all his countrymen with the hope that a change of dynasty was about to take place and they hailed with joy the prospect of a native government of
I<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:p</st1:country-region> was to replace a broken idol by a new one. He said that when a part of an image gets knocked off, it ceases to be a fit object for worship. Similarly the royal throne being a place of worship for the people, its occupant should be a person, who is able to render full service to the state. “I have lost one arm and one leg in addition to one eye and therefore in my own opinion, I am no longer fit to occupy the throne,” he said.

Consequently, the Rana requested the whole assembly to elect another sovereign.

The assembly pondered over the problem of the Rana and his insistence on abdication. They felt that injuries received by the Rana in the battlefield enhanced the power and prestige of the Mewar Emperor. Consequently the Maharana had become the fittest person to enhance the glory of the throne.

As such they expressed their views one after another and Rana Sanga’s decision to abdicate was overruled. Then Raja Vikramdeva of Merta and a number of other chiefs got up and led Rana Sanga back to his throne.

Thus strengthened by the will of the people and the princes as expressed in the assembly at Chittor, the Rana routed Ibrahim a second time.

Rana thereafter occupied Malwa and appointed Medini Rai as Governor of Chanderi. Next was the turn of
Gujarat’s Sultan, who was soon defeated by the brave Maharana.
 
Hi,
Seem that gipsy may be jats after all. an least their ruling elite(the big and fat ones haha)
they have 65% of words of sanscrite origin
are you interested?

Some gipsy paterns:
-like to etalate their richness ,heavy gold chains,houses whit many roofs and small towers as posible
-tendencies for quarell ,the batles betwin clans
Are you intersted?
 
Present Jat Mahasabha secretary, Yudhbir, personally visited Gypsy camps in Europe, lived with them for the sole motto of understanding whether Jats? Gypsies told them that we are Indians that we know but whether we are Jats we dnt know. A world conference was held at Chandigarh about 22 years ago. It was inaugurated by then PM Mrs Gandhi. Mr. W R Rishi (an IFS officer)was instrumental in that. I could not attend that conference but sent a few of my friends to meet and ascertain from gypsies whether they are really Jats? A few years back I again asked one of my IAS friend at Chandigarh to inquire about Rishi's address. When I reached there I found that W R Rishi is no more. No body stays there. I again kept inquiring first hand information from Soka had a long with him on this issue. I kept talking to gypsies personally also.

So far as my study goes in this regard: I'm convinced that gypsies are not Jats. Just a very small/negligible fraction of them may be Jats. W R Rishi was perhaps the first one not only to relate them to Jats but also to organize International Conference in India for them. I've seen many gypsies who are rather muslim gypsies in this gypsy crowd. This word Gypsy itself is derived from Egypt. Gypsies arrived in Europe from Egypt not from India. Hence their name Egypsian, Egypsies or Gypsies. However, about 33 Roma delegates participated in this conference at Chandigarh. They were saying that we are Jats and Rajputs from India. But they were silent about their clan names if any resembling Jats and Jat marriage rules-where marrying in his own clan/got is not allowed. Due to this outbreeding system Jats possess good physique today. Once I talked to Dharmendra also to make a movie on gypsies. But further investigation in this direction proved that they are hardly Jats.
 
Gypsies are definately not Jats ... their physical features are not alike jats ... they are very different ... only their skin colour .... and their traditions and cultures too ...

Please do not spread the rumors that Gypsies are in any way LINKED TO JATS ....

because they definately are not ......
 
smeker said:
Hi,
Seem that gipsy may be jats after all. an least their ruling elite(the big and fat ones haha)
they have 65% of words of sanscrite origin
are you interested?

Some gipsy paterns:
-like to etalate their richness ,heavy gold chains,houses whit many roofs and small towers as posible
-tendencies for quarell ,the batles betwin clans
Are you intersted?

Soka brother

Welcome back to the forum !

Though the issue has been more or less decided. Please continue supplying the information .
 
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