Rules are Rules.

You are talking about the bygone era when women had to be wholly dependent on their men folks. The landscape of Gender inequality is getting leveled very fast. As for craving of women for a 'dominating' male partner is concerned, it has become a thing of the past. Today's enlightened female give a damn to today's 'fake terminators' who are still suffering from the male hangover of the 'cave era'. Most of such self-proclaimed tigers are 'fake mards' suffering from certain inferiority complexes and sense of insecurity.

These are the same "enlightened female" jenki ek chuha, chipkali (lizard) dekhtai he tai-tai-fis ho jati hai.

How many of these "enlightened females" can do financial and other planning for the house independently? Most of these "enlightened females" demand equality only for power and independence and not for responsibility and interdependence. They are rarely fit for a head of the house position.

While these facts are essential to ponder upon, the blame should not go to the females. Many of them are certainly doing more than what the environment had taught them when they were growing up. They were not brought-up for the change that has come so fast. Even today, there are little opportunities for them to learn and experience the equality that everyone is talking about.

Genders apart, the power should only go to the person who can handle it with responsibility.
 
Freedom or a necessity? Isn't it against our culture to make a daughter-in-law work a job? But I guess, when it comes to money, our traditions are flexible.

कई बार मन्ने इसा लागे है जणू कई जाटलैंडर अवतरित होए हैं के होया करता के हों लाग रहया है किसे बात का नहीं बेरा !
म्हारे बूढ़े खेता में काम करा करते उन ने म्हारे माँ बाबु स्कूल में खंदा दिए आर उनमे तें दस बीस प्रतिशत बहरमी कर गए पांच सात प्रतिशत सरकारी नौकरी पकड़ गए ! मेरे बचपन की ए बता दयु जयराम कुम्हार की दुकान पे अख़बार आया करता रिसल्ट दीखान का अट्ठानी लिया करता आर गाम में तें कुल दो चार बालक आया करते अर साँझ ताहि गाम में रुका पात जाया करता भाई गाम में चार बालक पास होगे एक नाते सुनार का एक शाश्त्री मास्टर का एक परले पाने में सूरजभान का पोता अर भाई एक होया है रविंदरजित (चोखा भाई यु छोरा पास हो गया इबके जदय में इसका बियाह है तीन बार अटक लिया था ) ! बाकी बचे होए मानस गाम में के करा करते ? तडके हुक्का ले के बैठ जाते तासा पे अर सारे ज़माने का बोझ ठा के "भाई देवीलाल भोत बढ़िया मानस था यू बेरा न कित का चौटाला है इबके दो हफ्ते हो गए नेहर में पानी नहीं आया ! मिल ने गंडा लेना बंद कर दिया चलो रोड जम करंगे ! लुगाई के करा करती ? हाथ आली चाकी तो मानने देखि नहीं हाथ आली रई भी तावली ए जा ली थी फेर भी चार बजे उठो ! म्हैंसा आगे सानी गेरो गोबर गेर के आओ धर काढो बालका ने थाओ स्कूल खातर तयार करो रोटी बनाओ !सबने खुवाओ भांडे मांजो खेत में जाओ न्यार लाओ न्यार लेके आओ! झड बुहारी डंगर संभालो न्यार काटो म्हैंसा आगे गेरो बालका ने के के उधमस तारे उन ने देखो ! धार काढो म्हैंसा के थान में सुका करो रोटी टूका करो बालका ने खुवाओ ! दूध जमाओ भांडे मांजो ( काढोनी बिलोनी भी) ! इब बालक पढ़ लिख गए नौकरी पेशा हो गए पढ़ी लिखी बहु आ गयी व तो गोबर के हाथ न लावे कहगी " मुझसे नहीं होगा मम्मी जी मदर डेरी का दूध ले लेंगे " इतने बड़े घर में पोचा कौन लगाएगा ? कामवाली रख लेते हैं में तो नौकरी करुँगी! इब व तो चल दी नौकरी करण उसने के बेरा लोग उसकी नौकरी ने मम्मी जी की मजबूरी माने बैठे हैं !
जाट किते न नोटा के भूखे एक झटके में कांच लिकड़ गयी थी पूरे देश की इतिहास गवाह है जब जब मंदी आयी इस देश को ग्रामीण भारत ने उबारा है अर न तो थम जया साल छ महीने इब दिख जगा ! इब खेती के दाम मदे से बढे हैं लोग इसमें कुकण लाग लिए खैर वो सब बाद की बातें हैं ! अभी बात चल रही थी की वो उसके ससुर की मजबूरी है की वो अपनी बहु को नौकरी पे भेजता है हाँ वो मजबूरी है पर इसलिए नहीं की उसे बहु से पैसा कमवाना है उसके कारण हैं
घर बैठी सासु बहु के खोस्ड़े नहीं बजेंगे
बहु पड़ी लिखी है पर गोबर में वा पढाई गोबर हो जावेगी
कल ने बूढ़ा बूढी ने तो जाना है बेटा न्यू न कह दे मेरे आली ताहि नौकरी नहीं कारण दी न तो में टाटा बन जाता
बहु ने घर का काम तो करना नहीं कम तें कम इसे बहाने टेम पास हो जागा
और भतेरे कारण हैं इब ओड बड़ी रामायण लिख दी आप समझ जाओगे भतेरे समझदार हो !
 
A part of real conversation with my Jaatni friend, who lives in a small town of Haryana:

She: my father in law dictates what I should or should not wear. For example, covering my head at my work place is a MUST! Wearing of neck jewellery is a must. According to the FIL, tradition must be maintained - it looks good.

Me: What does the FIL wear?

She: Pyjama Kurta.

Me: (Laughs) Why not a Dhoti Kurta? Tradition must be maintained, isn't it so?

She: No answer!

The question is not about "tradition" or "culture". It is not about what is "right" or "wrong". Neither it is about "Gender equality". I am sure most of the mother-in-laws say the same.

The question is about the problems of generation-gap.

In my view, the solution lies in awareness and acceptance of this gap. Both should understand and accept that the difference in views are due to the generation gap and not due to what is wrong or what is right. Both, should device a mutual way out, respecting each others views.

Due consideration should be given to the age, it would be hard for the aged-brain to learn. Younger ones should show "more" flexibility.
 
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I disagree with the statement when a woman says she's strong enough and don't long for a strong, dominating husband. If someone still deny this point, she is either very masculine or telling a lie cuz' a real woman always crave for strong and dominating partner. You can't change basic instincts!

Bhai Jit, how do you know so much about women? I can understand if a girl says "a real woman always crave for strong and dominating partner"- not because she would be right. But atleast as a girl, she can talk about her own basic instincts and cravings. I am not sure how a guy who has even had 10 relationships with women can say that- because all these women can just be lying to please the guy's ego!

If a woman says she does not want a strong, dominating husband- why does she have to be masculine/liar as a matter of FACT?

Also you are saying that to be masculine is to be dominating. What does this domination mean? A king dominates by conquering other kings. A businessman dominates by beating the competition. A sportsman/artist dominates by excelling in his field. It is not so clear in a relationship. There are several types of domination- which one do you mean?

1. Financial: I earn money, so I decide what we do with it- go to cinema, send children to private school, etc etc.
2. Housekeeping: I run the household, so I decide what happens inside- What gets cooked, what furniture goes where, etc.
3. Physical: I am physically stronger. So I beat the crap out of you and treat you like my slave.
4. Personality: I speak all the time, decide on what you are going to do all the time. You don't challenge me or $hit is going to hit the roof (refer to the cartoon posted earlier for examples)
5. Emotional: I use emotional blackmail to get you to do "voluntarily" what you won't have done otherwise. Sort of thing Gandhi did in politics, many people do that in their homes.
6. Bedroom: You know what..

There may be more. Clearly, a woman can dominate on atleast some aspects of that list (whether you like it or not). This has nothing to do with tradition, culture, respect and other such blah blah. Traditionally, the world had kings who thought that "yuddh hi veer ka pramaan hai". But in the same history, we had Asoka who followed the buddhist principle of being a "chakravarti" samrat- ruling a welfare empire. While, in the modern world, we still have US that thinks like traditional kings. Similarly, there were always individuals in the past who didn't think that to be masculine means to dominate and to be feminine means to be dominated.

Talking about current times- forget India, maybe that's what being an Indian means to you. That men have to be strong and dominating and women have to be meek and dominated. But is this your sense of Aussies as well- that ALL women crave for strong and dominating partner? I say that because I don't think this sort of viewpoint would go down well with many Aussies, especially females.
 
You're talking like a feminist Sir ji. :)

I believe men and women are same though they both have their own differences. I was talking about those very differences not the gender inequality or supremacy n' those differences should be respected well.

I disagree with the statement when a woman says she's strong enough and don't long for a strong, dominating husband. If someone still deny this point, she is either very masculine or telling a lie cuz' a real woman always crave for strong and dominating partner. You can't change basic instincts!

Jit, I am against all sorts of bullying, exploitation and injustice irrespective of gender of the victims. You may draw any inference from my sympathy with the aggrieved party which happen to be females in this thread.

Here we have been discussing about the social parity between the male and female in our society and not about their biological features. I know physically nature has made all masculine creatures stronger than their female counterparts. But as far as craving for a sturdy and dominating partner is concerned the urge is equally strong and burning from both sides. The male partner would also not like to have any weak and frail partner. So, it is something reciprocal and nothing to celebrate for us - the males.
 
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It is so easy to twist the context, and not stick with discussion and make it personal on the forum.
There are always two sides of the coin, and the part of the reason why we are where we are in the society (do I need to say where we are?) is because we live in the glory of one side of the coin, and fail to acknowledge the other side of the coin. You take an example and make it into a universal truth, while refusing to accept the counter example.
Why marry an educated and professionally qualified girl in the first place? Why not clear before the girl and her parents what your expectations are before marriage, rather then lament about it later when she follows a career and not do household work? Why not marry a girl who is just literate in basics (or not even that) and good at household work?
It is not easy to earn a living. Who would know this better than you, being a man? Is it an easy role to play as a provider? Since you believe in the universal truths prevalent on the internet, you will come across several articles about women having to work harder than men to attain the same position , and also get paid less than the man in the same position. Which role would a woman prefer then- the comfort of the home looking after the family, or the hostile work environment and the society, especially our community, ready to put a stigma on her.
I guess it helps to bring down your own guilt and justify it as "freedom" and all that when a daughter-in-law gets out to work. It is understandable for you to do that, blame it on the daughter-in-law, when the neighbors/society says- ये तो छोरी / बहु की कमाई खा से!
कई बार मन्ने इसा लागे है जणू कई जाटलैंडर अवतरित होए हैं के होया करता के हों लाग रहया है किसे बात का नहीं बेरा !
म्हारे बूढ़े खेता में काम करा करते उन ने म्हारे माँ बाबु स्कूल में खंदा दिए आर उनमे तें दस बीस प्रतिशत बहरमी कर गए पांच सात प्रतिशत सरकारी नौकरी पकड़ गए ! मेरे बचपन की ए बता दयु जयराम कुम्हार की दुकान पे अख़बार आया करता रिसल्ट दीखान का अट्ठानी लिया करता आर गाम में तें कुल दो चार बालक आया करते अर साँझ ताहि गाम में रुका पात जाया करता भाई गाम में चार बालक पास होगे एक नाते सुनार का एक शाश्त्री मास्टर का एक परले पाने में सूरजभान का पोता अर भाई एक होया है रविंदरजित (चोखा भाई यु छोरा पास हो गया इबके जदय में इसका बियाह है तीन बार अटक लिया था ) ! बाकी बचे होए मानस गाम में के करा करते ? तडके हुक्का ले के बैठ जाते तासा पे अर सारे ज़माने का बोझ ठा के "भाई देवीलाल भोत बढ़िया मानस था यू बेरा न कित का चौटाला है इबके दो हफ्ते हो गए नेहर में पानी नहीं आया ! मिल ने गंडा लेना बंद कर दिया चलो रोड जम करंगे ! लुगाई के करा करती ? हाथ आली चाकी तो मानने देखि नहीं हाथ आली रई भी तावली ए जा ली थी फेर भी चार बजे उठो ! म्हैंसा आगे सानी गेरो गोबर गेर के आओ धर काढो बालका ने थाओ स्कूल खातर तयार करो रोटी बनाओ !सबने खुवाओ भांडे मांजो खेत में जाओ न्यार लाओ न्यार लेके आओ! झड बुहारी डंगर संभालो न्यार काटो म्हैंसा आगे गेरो बालका ने के के उधमस तारे उन ने देखो ! धार काढो म्हैंसा के थान में सुका करो रोटी टूका करो बालका ने खुवाओ ! दूध जमाओ भांडे मांजो ( काढोनी बिलोनी भी) ! इब बालक पढ़ लिख गए नौकरी पेशा हो गए पढ़ी लिखी बहु आ गयी व तो गोबर के हाथ न लावे कहगी " मुझसे नहीं होगा मम्मी जी मदर डेरी का दूध ले लेंगे " इतने बड़े घर में पोचा कौन लगाएगा ? कामवाली रख लेते हैं में तो नौकरी करुँगी! इब व तो चल दी नौकरी करण उसने के बेरा लोग उसकी नौकरी ने मम्मी जी की मजबूरी माने बैठे हैं !
जाट किते न नोटा के भूखे एक झटके में कांच लिकड़ गयी थी पूरे देश की इतिहास गवाह है जब जब मंदी आयी इस देश को ग्रामीण भारत ने उबारा है अर न तो थम जया साल छ महीने इब दिख जगा ! इब खेती के दाम मदे से बढे हैं लोग इसमें कुकण लाग लिए खैर वो सब बाद की बातें हैं ! अभी बात चल रही थी की वो उसके ससुर की मजबूरी है की वो अपनी बहु को नौकरी पे भेजता है हाँ वो मजबूरी है पर इसलिए नहीं की उसे बहु से पैसा कमवाना है उसके कारण हैं
घर बैठी सासु बहु के खोस्ड़े नहीं बजेंगे
बहु पड़ी लिखी है पर गोबर में वा पढाई गोबर हो जावेगी
कल ने बूढ़ा बूढी ने तो जाना है बेटा न्यू न कह दे मेरे आली ताहि नौकरी नहीं कारण दी न तो में टाटा बन जाता
बहु ने घर का काम तो करना नहीं कम तें कम इसे बहाने टेम पास हो जागा
और भतेरे कारण हैं इब ओड बड़ी रामायण लिख दी आप समझ जाओगे भतेरे समझदार हो !
 
A part of real conversation with my Jaatni friend, who lives in a small town of Haryana:

She: my father in law dictates what I should or should not wear. For example, covering my head at my work place is a MUST! Wearing of neck jewellery is a must. According to the FIL, tradition must be maintained - it looks good.

Me: What does the FIL wear?

She: Pyjama Kurta.

Me: (Laughs) Why not a Dhoti Kurta? Tradition must be maintained, isn't it so?

She: No answer!

Similar restrictions can be imposed by one's father. The ensuing discussion has taken a clear "in laws" vs girl angle. Everyone carries their own burden of tradition/culture. It is best to marry into a family where the burden is as close to your own family as possible. And then be realistic about it, and not look at others and feel perenially aggrieved about "grass being greener on the other side of the fence".

If the point is about a female's opposition to such burdens imposed by "traditions", wheresoever it comes from, it is a completely different topic. As an amateur history enthusiast, I am only amused when people talk about traditions/culture and what not- coming from a grand total of 40 years. All of us have history going back to thousands of years. Lots changed in between and lot will change in future. When people talk about tradition, it is usually- this is what I SAW when I was X years old and this was great and how it should be. None of these people could possibly live in the society and value system that was prevalent 400 years back (more traditional than 40), leave alone 4000 years back (much more traditional than 40).

Our lifestyle now in a free/democratic/sovereign India is different from our lifestyle in a British India is different from our lifestyle in a Mughal India is different from our lifestyle in Mauryan/Gupta India is different from our lifestyle in Vedic India. If we were indeed Buddhist once upon a time (as some people tell us), then the status of women would have been much higher than it was subsequently in Islamic and British times.
 
A part of real conversation with my Jaatni friend, who lives in a small town of Haryana:

She: my father in law dictates what I should or should not wear. For example, covering my head at my work place is a MUST! Wearing of neck jewellery is a must. According to the FIL, tradition must be maintained - it looks good.

Me: What does the FIL wear?

She: Pyjama Kurta.

Me: (Laughs) Why not a Dhoti Kurta? Tradition must be maintained, isn't it so?

She: No answer!

The bottom line being - Woman, Stop Complaining and instead do something about your social problems. If you don't want to do anything about it then just Take It because then you surely deserve it!
 
It is so easy to twist the context, and not stick with discussion and make it personal on the forum.
There are always two sides of the coin, and the part of the reason why we are where we are in the society (do I need to say where we are?) is because we live in the glory of one side of the coin, and fail to acknowledge the other side of the coin. You take an example and make it into a universal truth, while refusing to accept the counter example.
Why marry an educated and professionally qualified girl in the first place? Why not clear before the girl and her parents what your expectations are before marriage, rather then lament about it later when she follows a career and not do household work? Why not marry a girl who is just literate in basics (or not even that) and good at household work?
It is not easy to earn a living. Who would know this better than you, being a man? Is it an easy role to play as a provider? Since you believe in the universal truths prevalent on the internet, you will come across several articles about women having to work harder than men to attain the same position , and also get paid less than the man in the same position. Which role would a woman prefer then- the comfort of the home looking after the family, or the hostile work environment and the society, especially our community, ready to put a stigma on her.
I guess it helps to bring down your own guilt and justify it as "freedom" and all that when a daughter-in-law gets out to work. It is understandable for you to do that, blame it on the daughter-in-law, when the neighbors/society says- ये तो छोरी / बहु की कमाई खा से!

Let us start from ending

Log nyu kehya karein ye to chori(there is difference between chori and bahu i think) ki kamai khawenge
bahu beta kaman khater e hoya karein pehlam khet mein kamaya karte aaj naukri karke kamawe hain
I don't think men our society are that much shameless that they ask their wife to go and do the job forcefully in more then 90% of cases it is choice of female to go for a job and in more then 25% cases female forces to do so.

I never said that it is not harder for women to get same position and package as her male counterpart.

You are saying like every women is doing job now a days still females work at home. A professionally qualified person prefers a literate wife reasons for which are
as he is doing job and many times living away from parents or in a new city where it becomes difficult for a men to handle responsibilities of household with job. so duties are assigned and while assigning duties you need certain level of qualifications. I don't know exactly but i think in most cases "ye khol shadi tay hone se pehle hi ho jati hai ki tham mhari chori ne nukri karwaoge ke nahi ? aur ye sawal 99% ladki wale poochte hain. I had already said there is comfort in household today but i also gave reasons for job from side of male and you are saying that female is forced form side of male to leave that comfort and get into hard earning field so i will say that kick butts of that idiot if you are capable of earning go and enjoy your own life.

KBC mein parso ek Ambala ki lady thee 3oct
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx5FvClvQfU

Aur ek lady thee 29 sept ko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3Z8Pmtd158

Both are earning you will spot the difference

as you say there are two sides of coin so you also need to look from my side and i am not saying anything for personal reasons i told general things. If it seems only pointing to you then i am sorry.
I was stuck with topic throughout except first line first i made a plot then i put my point. There is nothing like universal truth what i am saying is general things from jat families which i belong and this is not particularly about my family i think at age of 30 i have seen enough villages of jats to conclude what i had said.
 
न आप और न मै सबके घरों की बात जानते है! न यह जानते है की औरो के घर की सच्चाई क्या है१ फिर हम कैसे दावा कर सकते है कि "बस जो मैंने कहा, सुना और देखा वही सत्य है! हमारे समाज में ऐसे ही होता है"? और क्या गलत है यह मान लेने में कि जाट भी "इंसान" है, महान सही, बलवान सही, पर है फिर भी इंसान! तो फिर जो मानवीय अभिलक्षण और इंसानों में है, वोह जाटों में क्यूँ नहीं होंगे? सरल पुराना जमाना बीत गया, आज जीने और कामयाबी के नियम बदल चुके है! पुराने शास्त्रों से आज की लड़ाई लड़ेंगे तोह जीत किस्सकी होगी, यह सब जानते है!
My grandmothers were illiterate, and they successfully handled household work and division of labor.That was then. This is now.The playing field has changed. I cannot expect men to be like my grand fathers, and women to be like my grand mothers. But, one thing that I still expect to continue is the mutual respect between genders.
I agree that some women work because of their own ambition, some for supporting the family, some out of necessity, some out of pressure from parents/in-laws, there can be so many reasons, or combination of all these, and not just one reason that you or I gave.

I appreciate your viewpoint, not just in this thread but in others too. The only purpose of my posts is to try and broaden the limited outlook by giving a different example and adding another perspective to the discussion.
Let us start from ending

Log nyu kehya karein ye to chori(there is difference between chori and bahu i think) ki kamai khawenge
bahu beta kaman khater e hoya karein pehlam khet mein kamaya karte aaj naukri karke kamawe hain
I don't think men our society are that much shameless that they ask their wife to go and do the job forcefully in more then 90% of cases it is choice of female to go for a job and in more then 25% cases female forces to do so.

I never said that it is not harder for women to get same position and package as her male counterpart.

You are saying like every women is doing job now a days still females work at home. A professionally qualified person prefers a literate wife reasons for which are
as he is doing job and many times living away from parents or in a new city where it becomes difficult for a men to handle responsibilities of household with job. so duties are assigned and while assigning duties you need certain level of qualifications. I don't know exactly but i think in most cases "ye khol shadi tay hone se pehle hi ho jati hai ki tham mhari chori ne nukri karwaoge ke nahi ? aur ye sawal 99% ladki wale poochte hain. I had already said there is comfort in household today but i also gave reasons for job from side of male and you are saying that female is forced form side of male to leave that comfort and get into hard earning field so i will say that kick butts of that idiot if you are capable of earning go and enjoy your own life.

KBC mein parso ek Ambala ki lady thee 3oct
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx5FvClvQfU

Aur ek lady thee 29 sept ko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3Z8Pmtd158

Both are earning you will spot the difference

as you say there are two sides of coin so you also need to look from my side and i am not saying anything for personal reasons i told general things. If it seems only pointing to you then i am sorry.
I was stuck with topic throughout except first line first i made a plot then i put my point. There is nothing like universal truth what i am saying is general things from jat families which i belong and this is not particularly about my family i think at age of 30 i have seen enough villages of jats to conclude what i had said.
 
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प्राणी मनुष्य सिर्फ अपने फायदे के लिए ही उसूल-धरम-ईमान जैसी चीजों का राग अलापता है
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दुनिया हैरत से भरी है!! !
 
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