drrajpalsingh
New member
Congratulations for providing good links and thought for further exploration of the issue. Thanks
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Scythian (Skythian) : Etymology
- Thread starter moar
- Start date
Congratulations for providing good links and thought for further exploration of the issue. Thanks
drrajpalsingh
New member
Skudat ('archers'?), Scythians, Sacae, Sakâ, Skythai, Sai - Gentlemen, Please Share Your Views that which of these Names was used by The People for Themselves 'or' You Believe none of them & any other Name that strikes Your mind (might well be the case) ?! Also, There is no doubt that MassaGetae ( Great Jats : www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?33913-Important-Scholars-who-identified-Jats-as-Massagetaeans ) have a lot to do with these Names, but how did Jats found Themselves being recorded in History by such these Names ?! I have a very limited grip over this topic but I am sure Dear Narender Kharb Sir & Dear Burdak Sir & Talented Members may have a lot of Knowledge to Share here !!
There is no doubt that MassaGetae (Great Jats) have a lot to do with these Names !!
Good information, needs further investigations and discussions to be established as historical truth/fact. Keep it up please.
Good information, needs further investigations and discussions to be established as historical truth/fact. Keep it up please.
Aye-Aye Gentleman !!
drrajpalsingh
New member
Aye-Aye Gentleman !!
Thanks for the post. But we have miles to go before we can rest and say with finality that what we say is true and there is nothing more to be explored, added or deleted to what we have presented. The previous post was indicative of this line and nothing more or less than that!
Regards,
narenderkharb
Active member
Thanks for the post. But we have miles to go before we can rest and say with finality that what we say is true and there is nothing more to be explored, added or deleted to what we have presented.
Regards,
True observation .
Narendra JI
If you can give a link to this book it will be of great use.
H. W. Bellew titled book - [Wiki]An Inquiry Into the Ethnography of Afghanistan[/Wiki] which I am wikifying on Jatland Wiki clearly writes some clans in Afghanistan as Jat tribes. He writes for many clans in Rajput tribe but we find them in Jat clan list also. Others are Mughal clans. I am putting info of each Jat clan in Afghanistan on its page with reference to this book.
These authors do not mention Scythians directly as Jats. Can you give direct evidences which prove Scythians to be Jats?
If you can give a link to this book it will be of great use.
H. W. Bellew titled book - [Wiki]An Inquiry Into the Ethnography of Afghanistan[/Wiki] which I am wikifying on Jatland Wiki clearly writes some clans in Afghanistan as Jat tribes. He writes for many clans in Rajput tribe but we find them in Jat clan list also. Others are Mughal clans. I am putting info of each Jat clan in Afghanistan on its page with reference to this book.
These authors do not mention Scythians directly as Jats. Can you give direct evidences which prove Scythians to be Jats?
narenderkharb
Active member
Laxman ji
I took it from Toyo Bunko Oriental library
For AFGHANISTAN largest Pathan group of Afganistan Parni who were also the core of parthian force and possibly Puni of ancient Indian literature are refffered as Jats in History of India by its own Historian on persian packhum site.
I took it from Toyo Bunko Oriental library
For AFGHANISTAN largest Pathan group of Afganistan Parni who were also the core of parthian force and possibly Puni of ancient Indian literature are refffered as Jats in History of India by its own Historian on persian packhum site.
Scythians in Siberia : The Legacy & Sheer Archaeology !!
(1) Scythian Gold From Siberia Said to Predate the Greeks : http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/09/arts/scythian-gold-from-siberia-said-to-predate-the-greeks.html
(2) Frozen Siberian Mummies Reveal a Lost Civilization | Archaeology | DISCOVER Magazine : http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jul/25-frozen-siberian-mummies-reveal-a-lost-civilization/
(1) Scythian Gold From Siberia Said to Predate the Greeks : http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/09/arts/scythian-gold-from-siberia-said-to-predate-the-greeks.html
(2) Frozen Siberian Mummies Reveal a Lost Civilization | Archaeology | DISCOVER Magazine : http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jul/25-frozen-siberian-mummies-reveal-a-lost-civilization/
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Thanks Hardeepji for giving links.
I quote from http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jul/25-frozen-siberian-mummies-reveal-a-lost-civilization/
1. "The upper garment probably had been a cape reaching down to the hip region..."
Comment - This is nothing but a garment called Topla by Jat boys and Khoyla by adults. These are Rajasthani words.
2. "The dress of the woman who also was buried in the grave chamber shows many similarities to that of the man."
Comment - This is found in Haryanvi Jats.
3. "Early Scythian period and can be dated to the 7th and 6th centuries B.C. Dendrochronology has in the meantime been able to date the royal grave at Arzhan-2 more precisely: The larch beams used in the construction of the burial chamber had been felled approximately between 619 and 608 B.C, verifying a setting in the late 7th century."
Comment - This gives perfect dating
I quote from http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jul/25-frozen-siberian-mummies-reveal-a-lost-civilization/
1. "The upper garment probably had been a cape reaching down to the hip region..."
Comment - This is nothing but a garment called Topla by Jat boys and Khoyla by adults. These are Rajasthani words.
2. "The dress of the woman who also was buried in the grave chamber shows many similarities to that of the man."
Comment - This is found in Haryanvi Jats.
3. "Early Scythian period and can be dated to the 7th and 6th centuries B.C. Dendrochronology has in the meantime been able to date the royal grave at Arzhan-2 more precisely: The larch beams used in the construction of the burial chamber had been felled approximately between 619 and 608 B.C, verifying a setting in the late 7th century."
Comment - This gives perfect dating
Thanks Hardeepji for giving links.
Comment - This gives perfect dating
Thank YOU Sir, Always A Pleasure !!
vivekkaliyar
New member
when i looked up the history time line of northern/wester India, I got many questions
:Looking up the timeline mentioned in the wikipedia about indo-scythians
3-4 century BC to 6/7 Century AD Indo Scythian Ruled here with certain wining and losses of kingdoms .
it is impossible that these 1000 years didn't affect the People /culture /Genetics .
if u see genealogy of raj-put kings claimed by some expert they trace them up to time of Mahabharata and shows that there kingdoms were always there doesn't make any sense .
How come Aryan and scythians kingdoms stayed side by side ?
why jats are native to only these regions where the scythian kingdoms existed ?
:Looking up the timeline mentioned in the wikipedia about indo-scythians
3-4 century BC to 6/7 Century AD Indo Scythian Ruled here with certain wining and losses of kingdoms .
it is impossible that these 1000 years didn't affect the People /culture /Genetics .
if u see genealogy of raj-put kings claimed by some expert they trace them up to time of Mahabharata and shows that there kingdoms were always there doesn't make any sense .
How come Aryan and scythians kingdoms stayed side by side ?
why jats are native to only these regions where the scythian kingdoms existed ?
Thanks Hardeepji for giving links.
I quote from http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jul/25-frozen-siberian-mummies-reveal-a-lost-civilization/
1. "The upper garment probably had been a cape reaching down to the hip region..."
Comment - This is nothing but a garment called Topla by Jat boys and Khoyla by adults. These are Rajasthani words.
2. "The dress of the woman who also was buried in the grave chamber shows many similarities to that of the man."
Comment - This is found in Haryanvi Jats.
>>>> Common Origin of Croats, Serbs and Jats : Sarmatians, Sauro Matii, Surya Madras or Solar Medes
By: Dr. Samar Abbas, Bhubaneshwar, India
Jat Jyoti, Vol.4 no.11 (Nov. 2003) p.13-18.
(Magazine of the World Jat Aryan Foundation, 248, Ram Krishna Vihar, 29, IP Extension, Delhi-110 092) <<
Excerpts :
"Their interest to history stems from the fact that their matriarchial Scythian society probably formed the basis of the Greek legends of the Amazons. In this connection, it is interesting to note numerous reference to the fighting ability, combat skills, bravery and great freedom of Jat women - the Jat amazons."
>> History has witnessed the Ability of Tomyris ( http://www.jatland.com/home/Tomyris ) !! <<<<
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when i looked up the history time line of northern/wester India, I got many questions
:Looking up the timeline mentioned in the wikipedia about indo-scythians
3-4 century BC to 6/7 Century AD Indo Scythian Ruled here with certain wining and losses of kingdoms .
it is impossible that these 1000 years didn't affect the People /culture /Genetics .
if u see genealogy of raj-put kings claimed by some expert they trace them up to time of Mahabharata and shows that there kingdoms were always there doesn't make any sense .
How come Aryan and scythians kingdoms stayed side by side ?
why jats are native to only these regions where the scythian kingdoms existed ?
>> http://www.jatland.com/home/Jats <<
[Wiki]An Inquiry Into the Ethnography of Afghanistan[/Wiki] by H. W. Bellew writes at page-71
"The great mass of the ancient Gandhari, together with their neighbours the Isapi, in the adjacent Sama, or " Plain," between the Swat, Kabul, and Indus rivers, were deported by the Yuechi, Getai, or Jata to the valley of the Tarnak river, and there settled about its banks in the fifth century of our era, at the time that they carried the begging-pot of Buddha from Peshawar to Kandahar."
Here the author writes clearly Jata.
"The great mass of the ancient Gandhari, together with their neighbours the Isapi, in the adjacent Sama, or " Plain," between the Swat, Kabul, and Indus rivers, were deported by the Yuechi, Getai, or Jata to the valley of the Tarnak river, and there settled about its banks in the fifth century of our era, at the time that they carried the begging-pot of Buddha from Peshawar to Kandahar."
Here the author writes clearly Jata.
drrajpalsingh
New member
An Inquiry Into the Ethnography of Afghanistan by H. W. Bellew writes at page-71
"The great mass of the ancient Gandhari, together with their neighbours the Isapi, in the adjacent Sama, or " Plain," between the Swat, Kabul, and Indus rivers, were deported by the Yuechi, Getai, or Jata to the valley of the Tarnak river, and there settled about its banks in the fifth century of our era, at the time that they carried the begging-pot of Buddha from Peshawar to Kandahar."
Here the author writes clearly Jata.
This points in desired direction.
An Inquiry Into the Ethnography of Afghanistan by H. W. Bellew writes at page-71
"The great mass of the ancient Gandhari, together with their neighbours the Isapi, in the adjacent Sama, or " Plain," between the Swat, Kabul, and Indus rivers, were deported by the Yuechi, Getai, or Jata to the valley of the Tarnak river, and there settled about its banks in the fifth century of our era, at the time that they carried the begging-pot of Buddha from Peshawar to Kandahar."
Here the author writes clearly Jata.
(1) BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Giant Buddha statues 'blown up' : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1214384.stm
(2) Afghanistan Has Ancient Buddhist Monuments Destroyed - eNotes.com : http://www.enotes.com/afghanistan-h...ce/afghanistan-has-ancient-buddhist-monuments
(3) In Memory Of A Buddhist Monument In Afghanistan : http://dharmaprabattan.blogspot.in/2011/01/in-memory-of-buddhist-monument-in.html
(4) Destruction of Buddhist Monuments in Afghanistan Protested : http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/Oppression/roafghan.html
(5) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_in_Afghanistan
(6) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan
(7) Buddhas of Bamyan photos and history : http://www.afghanistan-photos.com/crbst_21.html
(8) Historic Footage of Bamyan Statues, c. 1973 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDbrZaoXh4I
(9) The Valley of Bamiyan : Dupree, Nancy Hatch : http://archive.org/details/TheValleyOfBamiyan
(10) Cultural Landscape and Archaeological Remains of the Bamiyan Valley ( UNESCO World Heritage Site )
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[Wiki]An Inquiry Into the Ethnography of Afghanistan[/Wiki] by H. W. Bellew writes at page-90
"In the Afghan genealogies the Afridi are classed in the Kaki division of the Karai, Kararai, Kararani, or Karalanri branch of the Ghurghushti Afghan, along with the Khattak, Jadran, Utman, Khugiani, Shitak, Suleman, etc. The Karalanri is the same as the Turklanri, and comprises the two divisions of Kodi and Kaki ; of which the Kaki (perhaps the same as Kuki, a Naga tribe to be presently noticed), comprises the tribes above named ; and Kodi comprises the Dalahzak, Orakzi, Musa, Mangal, Tori, Hanni, Wardak, etc. The Afridi are said, by native accounts, to have been driven out of the plain country by the Dalahzak tribe, which was formerly very numerous and powerful, and the first tribe which penetrated from Kabul through the Khybar Pass into the Peshawar district, at that time called Bagram, after the name of its capital (the site of which is now covered by the British cantonment at Peshawar), which they seized from the Raja of Lahore, together with all the country up to the Indus, crossing which river they extended their conquests far to its eastward. They sent a strong contingent of their clans- men with the army of Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi in his expedition against Somnath, At the time of the Dalazak invasion, this part of eastern Afghanistan, the Peshawar valley and both banks of the Indus, was occupied by the Sur Kafir, or Surkh Kafir " the Red Infidels," supposed to be descendants of the Greeks who formerly held the whole country from Kabul to the river Jelam, or Jhelam, but probably including Surya or Surajbansi Rajput as well. These the Dalazak, who are said to be a Turk tribe in the following of Mahmud Ghaznavi, or of his father the celebrated Sabaktakin (but more likely a clan of the Jata Skythians, who dispossessed the Greeks), gradually forced out of the plain country up into the hills around, and mainly into the highlands of Swat and Boner, and the Khybar hills. The Dalahzak maintained their prosperity and renown to the time of Mikza Ulugh Beg, governor of Kabul — 1520-1545 A.D. — when they were dispossessed and expelled the country to the east bank of the Indus, to Chach and Pakli, by the Yusufzi and Ghorya tribes..."
Note that here again author writes Jat Scythians !!!!
"In the Afghan genealogies the Afridi are classed in the Kaki division of the Karai, Kararai, Kararani, or Karalanri branch of the Ghurghushti Afghan, along with the Khattak, Jadran, Utman, Khugiani, Shitak, Suleman, etc. The Karalanri is the same as the Turklanri, and comprises the two divisions of Kodi and Kaki ; of which the Kaki (perhaps the same as Kuki, a Naga tribe to be presently noticed), comprises the tribes above named ; and Kodi comprises the Dalahzak, Orakzi, Musa, Mangal, Tori, Hanni, Wardak, etc. The Afridi are said, by native accounts, to have been driven out of the plain country by the Dalahzak tribe, which was formerly very numerous and powerful, and the first tribe which penetrated from Kabul through the Khybar Pass into the Peshawar district, at that time called Bagram, after the name of its capital (the site of which is now covered by the British cantonment at Peshawar), which they seized from the Raja of Lahore, together with all the country up to the Indus, crossing which river they extended their conquests far to its eastward. They sent a strong contingent of their clans- men with the army of Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi in his expedition against Somnath, At the time of the Dalazak invasion, this part of eastern Afghanistan, the Peshawar valley and both banks of the Indus, was occupied by the Sur Kafir, or Surkh Kafir " the Red Infidels," supposed to be descendants of the Greeks who formerly held the whole country from Kabul to the river Jelam, or Jhelam, but probably including Surya or Surajbansi Rajput as well. These the Dalazak, who are said to be a Turk tribe in the following of Mahmud Ghaznavi, or of his father the celebrated Sabaktakin (but more likely a clan of the Jata Skythians, who dispossessed the Greeks), gradually forced out of the plain country up into the hills around, and mainly into the highlands of Swat and Boner, and the Khybar hills. The Dalahzak maintained their prosperity and renown to the time of Mikza Ulugh Beg, governor of Kabul — 1520-1545 A.D. — when they were dispossessed and expelled the country to the east bank of the Indus, to Chach and Pakli, by the Yusufzi and Ghorya tribes..."
Note that here again author writes Jat Scythians !!!!
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drrajpalsingh
New member
An Inquiry Into the Ethnography of Afghanistan by H. W. Bellew writes at page-90
"In the Afghan genealogies the Afridi are classed in the Kaki division of the Karai, Kararai, Kararani, or Karalanri branch of the Ghurghushti Afghan, along with the Khattak, Jadran, Utman, Khugiani, Shitak, Suleman, etc. The Karalanri is the same as the Turklanri, and comprises the two divisions of Kodi and Kaki ; of which the Kaki (perhaps the same as Kuki, a Naga tribe to be presently noticed), comprises the tribes above named ; and Kodi comprises the Dalahzak, Orakzi, Musa, Mangal, Tori, Hanni, Wardak, etc. The Afridi are said, by native accounts, to have been driven out of the plain country by the Dalahzak tribe, which was formerly very numerous and powerful, and the first tribe which penetrated from Kabul through the Khybar Pass into the Peshawar district, at that time called Bagram, after the name of its capital (the site of which is now covered by the British cantonment at Peshawar), which they seized from the Raja of Lahore, together with all the country up to the Indus, crossing which river they extended their conquests far to its eastward. They sent a strong contingent of their clans- men with the army of Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi in his expedition against Somnath, At the time of the Dalazak invasion, this part of eastern Afghanistan, the Peshawar valley and both banks of the Indus, was occupied by the Sur Kafir, or Surkh Kafir " the Red Infidels," supposed to be descendants of the Greeks who formerly held the whole country from Kabul to the river Jelam, or Jhelam, but probably including Surya or Surajbansi Rajput as well. These the Dalazak, who are said to be a Turk tribe in the following of Mahmud Ghaznavi, or of his father the celebrated Sabaktakin (but more likely a clan of the Jata Skythians, who dispossessed the Greeks), gradually forced out of the plain country up into the hills around, and mainly into the highlands of Swat and Boner, and the Khybar hills. The Dalahzak maintained their prosperity and renown to the time of Mikza Ulugh Beg, governor of Kabul — 1620-1545 A.D. — when they were dispossessed and expelled the country to the east bank of the Indus, to Chach and Pakli, by the Yusufzi and Ghorya tribes..."
Note that here again author writes Jat Scythians !!!!
Friend,
kindly recheck from the original book the second line of the paragraph for the name and his times of the governor {Mikja? Ulugh Begh, governor of Kabul -- 1620-1545 A.D. ?} as it seems some discrepancy has crept in. Perhaps it may be MIRZA and the years of his governorship may be something 1620-1645 AD or 1520 to 1545 A.D.
Thanks.