Shastri Ji : An Evaluation

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raj2rif

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Dear Members,

I since my childhood, I have been a big fan of our beloved and probably most liked Prime Minister Late Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri Ji.

It was India's misfortune, that Shastri ji had a very truncated tenure at the helm of affairs of Indian Politics.

As I think about the events of that period, one question comes to my mind and that is, what if Shastri Ji had lived longer? What would have been his popularity and probably how he would have tackled the situation in 1971.

Firstly to start with, in a short span of time he gave the country the most appropriate slogan "jai jawan jai kisan". Still bettering the wounds of 1962, the Indian Army did exceedingly well during 1965 considering the resources available. India did go through the green revolution during this period. And Shastri Ji did follow his slogan in letter and spirit. Our country made tanks and air crafts did a wonderful job during the war against probably one of the best available with our adverseries.

The point that bothers me most is Tashkand Accord. Indian military probably fought the bloddiest battle at Haji Pir and sufferred heavy casualties to take the all important pass. Yet with stroke of a pen it was gone at Tashkand. I think it was probably one of the most costly mistake any politician could make. Shastri Ji did not come alive from Tashkand. What would have happened to his political career had he come alive? Would he have survived the aftermath of that mistake? Let us assume, he would have, then what he could have done during 1971. Could he match the political guile of Mrs. Gandhi?
While we can't change the history, these are the few questions which I feel may be worth the brainstorming.

For those who are not aware of the strategic importance of Hazipir Pass, I am giving a brief account below.

The Poonch Valley and the Kashmir Valley are seperated by the high Pir Panjal mountain ranges. If today we have to move any thing by road from Poonch to Uri, we have to follow the route: Poonch - Jammu (240 Kms in Mountain) Jammu- Srinagar (300 Km) and from Srinagar to Uri (99 Km)
If we had Hazipir Pass with us (which we did capture in 1965) the distance between Poonch and Uri is just 59 Kms.

With such an important piece of ground in our hand, we would have had a tremendous advantage in the region.

Let us see evaluate Shastri Ji's leadership with this back ground?
 
I am Surprised!

I am surprised that only 25 people thought of viewing this thread and none thought it proper to put their views.
There could be various reasons for that. Is it an obsolete subject? or Shastri Ji does not deserve a discussion? Or we don't have enough material or litrature available to comment upon the subject? Or may be it is a hot potato and need not be touched.

The fact is that we did take Hazipir pass in 65, and gave it away. The strategic importance of Hazipir can't be disputed. A major loss on 11 Jan 66, i.e. the loss of a very important piece of ground and the loss of a very honest, straight forward and likable politician.

The question is, when any leader makes a wrong decision, we all criticize it be it Mahatma Gandi or Jawaharlal Nehru. Did Shastri Ji escaped all this because he died?
 
Col. Sahab, Shastri ji belonged to the last group of honest politicians i believe. I have read a lot about him, he used to sleep only four hours a day and even he was the prime minister of india, he did not even had a carpet in his house.

There was a conspiracy behind his death. N Nehru's were known to have quite a influence in russia...so, we can never be certain as what we know is the whole truth?



N for Shastri ji, i guess errors can be made even at the highest level...
 
Yes!

Dear Rohit,
You are right about two things, firstly, that he was probably the last brand of honest politicians. You are also right about that mistakes can be made at all levels. I am not convinced that we blame Nehru for every single thing.
I have not read much about Shastri JI, and would like to read as much about him as possible. I would be happy if you can post some information about the material available on Shastri Ji's life and his political thinking.
Regarding Nehru's influence in Russia and the Tashkand accord itself. I personally feel people just make statements about blaming others. The beauty of our system is that they neither have to be accountable nor have to prove any thing.
If some thing is substantial available on Nehru family's involvement then let us read about that also. We also need to evaluate the credibility of people who are or have made such claims.
The staff that accompanied Shastri Ji, needs to be taken to the task for not analyzing each and every word of the accord and giving him the implications of the Hazipir clause.
 
Tevatia Ji....... It was misfortune of INDIA & fortune of INDIRA GANDHI ...
raj2rif said:
Dear Members,

I since my childhood, I have been a big fan of our beloved and probably most liked Prime Minister Late Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri Ji.

It was India's misfortune, that Shastri ji had a very truncated tenure at the helm of affairs of Indian Politics.

As I think about the events of that period, one question comes to my mind and that is, what if Shastri Ji had lived longer? What would have been his popularity and probably how he would have tackled the situation in 1971.

Firstly to start with, in a short span of time he gave the country the most appropriate slogan "jai jawan jai kisan". Still bettering the wounds of 1962, the Indian Army did exceedingly well during 1965 considering the resources available. India did go through the green revolution during this period. And Shastri Ji did follow his slogan in letter and spirit. Our country made tanks and air crafts did a wonderful job during the war against probably one of the best available with our adverseries.

The point that bothers me most is Tashkand Accord. Indian military probably fought the bloddiest battle at Haji Pir and sufferred heavy casualties to take the all important pass. Yet with stroke of a pen it was gone at Tashkand. I think it was probably one of the most costly mistake any politician could make. Shastri Ji did not come alive from Tashkand. What would have happened to his political career had he come alive? Would he have survived the aftermath of that mistake? Let us assume, he would have, then what he could have done during 1971. Could he match the political guile of Mrs. Gandhi?
While we can't change the history, these are the few questions which I feel may be worth the brainstorming.

For those who are not aware of the strategic importance of Hazipir Pass, I am giving a brief account below.

The Poonch Valley and the Kashmir Valley are seperated by the high Pir Panjal mountain ranges. If today we have to move any thing by road from Poonch to Uri, we have to follow the route: Poonch - Jammu (240 Kms in Mountain) Jammu- Srinagar (300 Km) and from Srinagar to Uri (99 Km)
If we had Hazipir Pass with us (which we did capture in 1965) the distance between Poonch and Uri is just 59 Kms.

With such an important piece of ground in our hand, we would have had a tremendous advantage in the region.

Let us see evaluate Shastri Ji's leadership with this back ground?
Click to expand...
 
...everyone knows how we are seduced by this bloody Nehru'family... selfish, corrupt & everything else which can be the worst in this world..... Sardar Bhagat Singh had already predicted that after independence the power will come in the hand of some corrupt politicians & despite of rise we will fall...
each & every word was corect of that great martyr... & the era was begun by Nehru...................nurtured by Indira, flourished by Rajeiv... & ......:p.....
how long this will run.. there is nothing in INdia except that nehru's...........
 
prashantacmet said:
...everyone knows how we are seduced by this bloody Nehru'family... selfish, corrupt & everything else which can be the worst in this world..... Sardar Bhagat Singh had already predicted that after independence the power will come in the hand of some corrupt politicians & despite of rise we will fall...
each & every word was corect of that great martyr... & the era was begun by Nehru...................nurtured by Indira, flourished by Rajeiv... & ......:p.....
how long this will run.. there is nothing in INdia except that nehru's...........
Click to expand...

Ludwig Von Mises predicted that every government in the world will be corrupt. I think he was more precise than Sardar Bhagat Singh. I do not know of one government in the world that did everything that every citizen in their country was excited about.

For more information visit www.mises.org
 
And the Topic?

prashantacmet said:
...everyone knows how we are seduced by this bloody Nehru'family... selfish, corrupt & everything else which can be the worst in this world..... Sardar Bhagat Singh had already predicted that after independence the power will come in the hand of some corrupt politicians & despite of rise we will fall...
each & every word was corect of that great martyr... & the era was begun by Nehru...................nurtured by Indira, flourished by Rajeiv... & ......:p.....
how long this will run.. there is nothing in INdia except that nehru's...........
Click to expand...

Dear Prashant,
I can understand your hatered for the Nehru family. Actually, we all in most areas of Jatland be it Baraut area or the area I come from, we have been indoctrinated since our childhood about it without giving any reasonable explanations and facts. But then that is OK. We all have our perception about different people. I personally don't like Mrs. Gandhi myself for various reasons, yet we can't just ignore her contribution to our country. She might have done some wrong things, but she also did some good things and did stood the test of the time. Many male leaders would have crumbled under the pressure she had gone through her rule, both on economic front as well as on strategic front.

But the issue here is not the Nehru Gandhi family. We want to discuss Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri. If you have some thing to feed us on that issue, that would be best.
 
Col. Sahab,

I too am a great admirer of Shastriji as he was definitely an honest man in complete love with his country. But I always had doubt about his ability to withstand pressure (or was he too emotional). After the railway accident he resigned and after Tashkent he had the stroke and passed away. Politically, he had certain shortcomings when it came to reining in Indira who openly flouted him. Though a bit hypothetical, given India's clout in Congress, I doubt he would have survived much longer as PM. What do you think?
 
Yes!

Dear Serhrawat Ji,
First of all let me welcome to US. Last time I saw your profile, you were at Seoul, South Korea. Wish you good luck.

I am not sure, whether or not he would have survived in the Congress. In 1965 when we were attacked in Kashmir, by Pak, he did take a very quick decision to go into Pak in plains where it hurt them most. I don't know whether it was his decision or that of then military commanders, but that was a very wise and if I may say a master piece decision. Whatever be the case he rightfully got the credit for that.
He was very candid about his approach to make our agriculture industry work. Purely from the farmer's point of view, between him and Ch. Charan Singh, I feel, Ch. Sahab did much better in UP, then what he did nation wide.

I am not sure about the politics going on at that time within the congress party. Actually, like all political leaders, probably Mr. Nehru had ensured that he or his survivor family member carried a big support within the party, and that probably led to Congress's division after Mrs. Gandhi came to power. As for Shastri Ji is concerned, I think he did enjoy great respect within the congress. His popularity soared to top after 65 war. With that back ground it may have been difficult for Mrs. Gandhi or any one else to bring him down, for it was not only Congress, it was outside the congress the respect he commanded.
The problem would have occurred after Tashkand accord. Mrs. Gandhi or his distractors would have exploited it to maximum and further their own political goals.
Actually, at diplomatic front we did fail both in 65 as well as 71. Even Simla accord fell short of our expectations. The two things we could have done at Simla. Firstly the accord should have had a line that, all prior accords and resolutions on Kashmir are agreed by both parties to be null and void and this accord superseeds all of them in all respects. The second thing should have been included, that the LOC should be now the international border and any intrusion across it by either parties, would be considered invasion against that country.
May be 71 was the time to regain Hazipir diplomatically.
I would say our highly paid civil officials have let us down every time.
I think you have made some excellent observations on the emotional side of Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri Ji. While emotional leaders are capable of moblizing a big support of human beings, some time they may fall short of political wisdom in the real world.
 
Col. Sahab ...Shastri jee ki kaadh kathi choti thieh. However, he was not afraid of doing physical risks and had even more moral strength.

Before Independence indian railways had 4 classes. 1rst class was heaven n 4rd class was beyond description. Shastri jee removed the 1rst class and provided more comforts to the 3rd class...

In 1956 Shastri ji resigned as the railway minister due to some accident taking the whole responsibility.

He was called the homeless home minister at one point of time as he had no home of his own. He lived in a rented house.

There is not even a single doubt about his honesty n dedication to the country. Still, political errors had been committed at a very high level.

However, it could also have been that if Patel was alive and was the PM during the wars with Pakistan, might be we could had solved the Kashmir problem in the beginning.
 
I am also a admirer of Mr. Shastri, his quick decision in 1965 war and about his honesty. Regarding the Tashkent agreement,the public was so against it that even Mrs. Shastri did not talk to him when he called from Tashkent,forget about the army. As far as suggestions given by the civil servants who were with him during the agreement,its the PM who makes the final decision.and these are the moments where leadership is counted.In my opinion Mr. Shastri was great leader but still not a Prime minister material and same applies to Ch. Charan Singh too.

thanks
 
Its a mixed bag

Dear Colonel Tewathiaji
Shashtriji was a humble soul from a poor family. He remained the same for all his life.
He handled the 65 war very well. His death in Tashkand was unnatural. We are told he died of heart attack. But may not be true.

Lets not forget, post IIWW India was the centre of big super power rivalry in South Asia. Though UK and US had their child in Pakistan, they wanted to expand further and didn't trust India a bit. On the other hand USSR found an ally in Nehru, but again an untrustwothry one. They started cultivating Indiara much early in her political life. Colonialists are always afraid of people who have a mind of their own. Shashtri was one such example. Its quite possible that he was killed by the Russians because he wasn't inclined to communism.
It may also be that he was pressurised into giving away the Hsij Pir pass and couldnt stand the humiliation.

One thing to be noticed from communist history is that barring 1971, Russians never supported us whole heartedly. After 1965 war, we had to ask Britain for fighter aircrafts like the Gnat, Russians had refused help at that time. So also when China invaded in 1962. Those familiar with Russian history will know they have been armtwisting us into buying their untested military equipment for many decades. It stopped only with their break up.


Second point against Shashtri could be his opposition to Nuclear weapons. He had almost wound up the country's nuclear programme. If he were alive longer, who knows today PAkistan's nuclear blackmail would have been 100% effective !
 
sampuran said:
Dear Colonel Tewathiaji
Shashtriji was a humble soul from a poor family. He remained the same for all his life.
He handled the 65 war very well. His death in Tashkand was unnatural. We are told he died of heart attack. But may not be true. !
Click to expand...

Dear Sampuran Singh Ji,
No dispute about Shastri Ji's honesty, modesty and simplicity. When one's image and achivements are as large as Shastri Ji, it is some time difficult to see things from different perspective.

Regarding the story, that he was killed at Tashkand. No one has a definite proof about it. What about his close aids those accompanied him? While it may be true, it is unlikely that it would have happened that way, for in 65, if Russia was favoring Pak, surely the US would have had a stake and would have definitely been softer to Indian cause.

![/quote]Lets not forget, post IIWW India was the centre of big super power rivalry in South Asia. Though UK and US had their child in Pakistan, they wanted to expand further and didn't trust India a bit. On the other hand USSR found an ally in Nehru, but again an untrustwothry one. They started cultivating Indiara much early in her political life. Colonialists are always afraid of people who have a mind of their own. Shashtri was one such example. Its quite possible that he was killed by the Russians because he wasn't inclined to communism.
It may also be that he was pressurised into giving away the Hsij Pir pass and couldnt stand the humiliation.![/quote]

I think there were too many nations those were not inclined to communism, including Pakistan, With your theory that US and UK had their child in Pak, it does not make a sense to me, if Russia would try to pressurise India in that case to give up a vital piece of ground, to a nation which they knew, was more close to their rival nations. Again when it comes to pressures, if a leader at that level gives way to the pressure, probably proves the point made by Sandeep, "the priministrail material." I guess, at that level the pressures are always there and a leader at that level has to withstand all those. In this context, I would say, Mr. Narsimharao, handled the pressure of leading his minority government to the full term pretty well (even though there were a lot of controversies) Imagine the pressure on Bill Clinton, during his Presidency, he did handled it well, and did not deviate from his foreign and domestic policies, inspite of every one gunning for his blood at his own home in Monica's case.

![/quote]One thing to be noticed from communist history is that barring 1971, Russians never supported us whole heartedly. After 1965 war, we had to ask Britain for fighter aircrafts like the Gnat, Russians had refused help at that time. So also when China invaded in 1962. Those familiar with Russian history will know they have been armtwisting us into buying their untested military equipment for many decades. It stopped only with their break up.![/quote]

In international relations, as well as politics, there are no permanent friends and no permanent enemies, there are only permanent interests. Every nation does the arms twisting to further her political and strategic goals. What is happening in the world around proves that. The US has not been able to do any thing to Cuba, next door, while has been able to send her forces every where else. Why? Because of Russian Interests in Cuba and probably a very strong reaction from Russia in case of any US adventure in Cuba. The importance of Panama Canal can't be ignored and the Russian would like to have a strong vigil over that, and that comes from their interests in Cuba. Similarly, we see, the US creating Taliban and then destroying it. For their interests had been fulfilled and Taliban after Soviet left Afghanistan became not only a liability but also a nuissace to them.

![/quote]Second point against Shashtri could be his opposition to Nuclear weapons. He had almost wound up the country's nuclear programme. If he were alive longer, who knows today PAkistan's nuclear blackmail would have been 100% effective ![/quote]

I am not aware of this fact, but if that be true, it was not a wise decision of Shastri Ji. We the people are always talking about Pakistan, when it comes to military threat, and forget about the main threat that comes from China. Our Nuclear program is more to counter Chinese threat rather than a Pakistani Threat. In any big conventional war when two parties are at parity, the trade off will be between time and space. Pakistan does not have enough space to trade for the time and hence their compulsions to match the Indian Military even at the cost of develpment. China does not have that problem. We do have a geographical advantage over China in a possible conflict in the conventional conflict and hence we need to have a nuclear program going on so long China possesses a nuclear weapon. This is to have a dettrence to Chinese trying to use a nuclear weapon against us.


I really thank you for taking time off to give your input on the subject.
 
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