Should Muslim Jats be allowed on this site?

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hello!
issue of invoving muslim jats in this forum depends on the very purpose of this forum. if the purpose is just to increase the numbers and being more powerfull in terms numbers (no doubt there will b very powerfull people in muslim jats and they will help in growth and development).
but are really we (haryana,u.p,delhi ,rajasthan)jats and muslim jats same? are marriages between hindu and muslim jats possible(as there have been lots of discussion about intercaste marriage on this site)?
is our culture similar to muslim jats?if hindu and muslim jats interact and mix up culture , what will b the final product? for that matter all human beings r similar.
so, first we need to concentare on consolidating our posion and at later stages only can think of including muslim jats. other wise it may happen that after some time (2-3yr.) this forum may b dominated by muslim jats and we our self may loose the identity(at present also some of us r not clear what we really r ). so, lets consolidate and concentrate more on invoving(there r lakhs in harayan,u.p,delhi,rajasthan) our own hindu jats.
 
I strongly beleive that all jats should be allowed as members. Trust me, only those muslim jats will join the site who truely identify themselves with hindu jats. This way we will know how deep or how loose the jat brotherhood is. Like many among us, they also might be thinking the same way and i don't see that they will join the site in hoards... Some broad minded will certainly join. Let us welcome them..

Regards
Rajendra
 
Dear friends,

I too feel that all the Jats -irrespective of religion should be welcome to this site. Most of them still follow the same way of living and have common food habits-- then why should they be denied from becoming members? they are a part of Jat community.
 
It won't be fair to the principles on which this site was created! You all know this very well. I think it's better to create another site, may be 'AllJatsLand.com' to welcome Muslim and SikhJats. Otherwise, join some forum on a site belonging to their existing site(if any).
 
I have through the Jathistory group been in touch with our Pakistani Jat friends.

Here is an excerpt from one message I received, full message below.

URL to site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jatt_Forum/message/63


****
Amjid writes ,
“

“ in my opinion, the jats are now facing crises of lack of
knowledge about their history, origin and contribution because a little literature is available on it. if we succeed in telling them all these things, it will give them a sense of pride which only rajputs are enjoying at the moment.

both the muslim and british historians tried to undermine jats because of their anti-establishment and resistant role.


dear chaudhry, here in pakistan we are facing another problem. the jats have lost link with their origin because of their conversion. there are many castes who now claim to be rajputs although they are jats in india. we need literature through which we can bring them back to the right path and save
them from the process of 'rajputisation'{end of quote} ***

Is this person not someone you would wish to communicate with and encourage ???

Ravi







From: "Amjad Waraich" <warraichamjad@h...>
Date: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:14 am
Subject: RE: [Jatt_Forum] Re: Invitation to join Jathistory group

dear ravi chaudhry,

you are 100 per cent correct that the word rajput
did not exist any where in subcontinent before nineth century. i will go one step forward to say that the word jat can be found in indian literature of 4th century after christ. the word rajput is mainly related to the muslim period. and we can find that they got prominence during this period. the reason was simple, the muslim kings' historians elevated them because of their pro-establishment role. they gave their daughters to kings'marriages
and helped by extended physical help to strengthen their rule and got darbar's support to enhance their wealth and political influence in exchange. during muslim period, rajput was a title which the kings used to bestow upon those indiginous indians who pleased them by giving some special service.

the jats are by nature anti establishment. they always remained
at some distance from the kings' courts. they even now don't know the art of pleasing the rulers. rather they played the role of resistants.

it were the jats who attacked mahmood ghaznavi in multan area when he was returning from central india after his eighth or nineth attack. again it were jats--- Sikhs and surajmal---who ultimately diluted the great mughal empire by capturing
dheli again and again and establishing their states on the areas around dehli. again it were jats---hyder ali tipu sultan of mysure who were punjabi sipras by caste and sikhs who resisted east india company from plasy's war of 1757 between sirajudaula and the company to chailianwala war of 1849 between sinkhs and the company. otherwise you will find no person fighting
against the british. the jats resisted in such a way that the british who taken the darbar under their control in 1764 took 35 more years to conquer maysure and another 50 years to conquer punjab being then ruled by the sikhs.

in my opinion, the jats are now facing crises of lack of
knowledge about their history, origin and contribution because a little literature is available on it.

if we succeed in telling them all these things, it will
give them a sense of pride which only rajputs are enjoying at the
moment.

both the muslim and british historians tried to undermine jats because of their anti-establishment and resistant role.


dear chaudhry,

here in pakistan we are facing another problem. the jats
have lost link with their origin because of their conversion. there are many castes who now claim to be rajputs although they are jats in india.

We need literature through which we can bring them back to the right path and save them from the process of 'rajputisation'
Click to expand...
 
I am really impressed by the views of Amjad Waraich. Jatland will be really enriched by the presence of such learned and right minded members. Let us welcome them all as soon as possible.

Rajendra
 
Ofcourse we should welcome them they are our brothers some how, they would always be beter then RAJPOOOOOT, BRAHAMIIIIIN, BANIYAAAA, MAALI, MATHURRRRRRRR, BLAIIII AND MORE...

PLEASE LET THEM JOIN US..

WITH BEST REGARDS
 
No I certainly would not agree with that, it does makes sense that only those muslim jats would join who identify themselves with hindu jats.
Well that really does not matter anything more then that, this site is a group of LIKE MINDED people from SIMILAR BACKGROUNDS, VALUES, and CULTURE having some other religions folks in here would ruin this feeling of belonging and this site would become another Indian or South Asian assosiation and then there would be chaos and disorder and then well we all can figure it out.
 
I think that the difference between hindu & muslim jats is wide. Our customs, attitude, thinking process is all very different from them. They might feel pride in saying that they are Jats, but the reverse is not true.

Has they been so close to hindu jats, then we may have heard of some instances of marriages among these two groups, which is not true. So identitywise they are very different. Infact Sikh jats are the closest in terms of build, attitude, occupation etc. But still if we open this site to them, they may outnumbered hindu jats here and the site may end up as a punjabi forum.

Ultimately we will also see ppl writing their comments in punjabi or urdu and it may alienate some of the hindu jats away from this site.

This is what my personal opinion is. A big NO from my side.
 
Dear Friends,

If we jats can not manage even to deal with sikh and muslim jats, how do we expect to deal with rest of the world ? High time we come out of our mindsets and learn how to deal with bigger world. If we aim for Mars, only then we will land on moon..Let us conqur the hearts of our sikh and muslim jat brothers first before we think of winning the hearts of rest of the country and the world...I get the smell of weakness/ helplessness when some one says that we should not allow sikh and muslim jats on jatland..

Rajendra
 
Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Mar 04, 2004 09:01 p.m.):
Dear Friends,
...I get the smell of weakness/ helplessness when some one says that we should not allow sikh and muslim jats on jatland..

Rajendra
Click to expand...
********************
Rajendraji

It is not weakness,

This is a discussion to build consensus.

We must debate this, and argue this important issue with passion.

That is what is happening.

My biggest pleasure, is that our next generation is rising to the occasion, and discussing this issue.

Let us continue this debate.

Trust our Jat culture and our young, they will do what is right!

Alexander was only 27 years old, he conquered the known world.

Our Jats sent him packing, with his tail between his legs.

Study your history,

you will be afraid of no one, after that.


Ravi
 
Dear Mr. Ravi,
With all due respect,

yes the helping hand is always there, but apart from our daily lives we come to this site to find a feel of belonging, and you can call me insecure and narrow minded but had I gotten that feeling from so many of Sikh Jatts I come across in real life on day to day basis then I would not have needed this site as much as I do now.
Apart from that personally religion is a much bigger aspect of personality and philosophy to lead my life, it certainly comes before my cast, I am first a Hindu and then a Jat and truly due to that reason I totally identify myself with Hindu Jats, I feel much more close and at home with Hindus of any caste, or region than with Muslims and Sikhs, I am not saying anything against them, so many of my close friends are Sikhs and I do know some Muslims as well, but that’s in the real world.
In this virtual what brings us together is the simple fact the we are Hindu Jats, I might be 70% in speculating what kind of background or anyone else comes from on this website and such aspects about this site bring us close and I certainly would not like to see it going waste thus I am very much against the proposal of letting Sikh and Muslim Jats join this website.
 
Many of us have taken the names of Baoli and other Jat villages. Ask a Baoli Jat how he feels about muslim jat or (We call them Moula Jat). There one never refers to them as Muslim Jat or Moula jat but as shoor (Not me, but folks in village). Today if we do not have confrontation with muslims in predominated areas like muzaffarnagar and baraut, then that is because of the fear factor in the minds of muslims when it comes to fighting with the Jats. and many of them are muslim jats. Hindu jats do not like to eat or drink water from the so called muslim jats because of the differences in their living and eating habits.

The fact is that there is a big difference in the mindset of hindu, muslim and sikh JAT.

Most of us are living away from home (mainly abroad, this is what I guess), so we may have become very liberal in our thoughts and may accept diluting the forum, but ask a desi JAT who is still living in his gaon and doing kheti for his living. He can not believe that hindu jat and muslim jat are very much similar. He may get astonished to hear this.
 
Amit Sansanwal (Mar 04, 2004 11:08 p.m.):
Dear Mr. Ravi,
With all due respect,

yes the helping hand is always there, but apart from our daily lives we come to this site to find a feel of belonging, and you can call me insecure and narrow minded but had I gotten that feeling from so many of Sikh Jatts I come across in real life on day to day basis then I would not have needed this site as much as I do now.


************
No I will not call you narow minded.

I will say, people like you are our future.

You ask questions, ( what a relief).

and we have a saying,

that

" answers are dead,

questions are alive."

We jats are questioning by nature.

It is heriditary,

Be proud of it,

It has kept this nation safe

But now we need to think of ourselves, too.

Our community is in transistion.

from rural to today's modern advanced world.

What kind of a future do you want to shape for your kids.

Humble suggestion

A life collecting cow dung cakes, had better not be one of them.

Amit,

I have seen your questions before,

they are deep, and I have faith and confidence in you

Take the plunge into the unknown

We have only to fear, fear itself.

Ravi
Click to expand...
 
Very True and practical too !!

Vimal Kumar (Mar 04, 2004 11:25 p.m.):
Many of us have taken the names of Baoli and other Jat villages. Ask a Baoli Jat how he feels about muslim jat or (We call them Moula Jat). There one never refers to them as Muslim Jat or Moula jat but as shoor (Not me, but folks in village). Today if we do not have confrontation with muslims in predominated areas like muzaffarnagar and baraut, then that is because of the fear factor in the minds of muslims when it comes to fighting with the Jats. and many of them are muslim jats. Hindu jats do not like to eat or drink water from the so called muslim jats because of the differences in their living and eating habits.

The fact is that there is a big difference in the mindset of hindu, muslim and sikh JAT.

Most of us are living away from home (mainly abroad, this is what I guess), so we may have become very liberal in our thoughts and may accept diluting the forum, but ask a desi JAT who is still living in his gaon and doing kheti for his living. He can not believe that hindu jat and muslim jat are very much similar. He may get astonished to hear this.
Click to expand...
 
Vimal Kumar (Mar 04, 2004 11:25 p.m.):The fact is that there is a big difference in the mindset of hindu, muslim and sikh JAT.


********
If we do not enter into dialogue, are we going to see a change ?

If we do not take steps to improve the conditions of the village Jat, doing Kheti( now mostly subsistence farming) for a living, can we expect progress and development , of our community ?


Ravi
Click to expand...
 
Ravi Bhai,

We are not backward thinkers - nahin to hum bhi aaj bhains chara re hote. Don't think that we we are trying to hold back. We are just saying that this is not the place to build alliances. You take on such things outside your house just in case it leads to some fire. You don't play with fire inside your house. We all have friends, colleagues and neighbors from different part of the world and we do deal with them nicely. I would never object to starting another forum for this purpose or joining another forum which may server such purpose - build alliances. Alliances are important in life.

I appreciate your thoughts.

-ajmer
 
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