"Should the Govt amend HMA to ban 'same-gotra' marriage"?

[kapdal]

Mine reply -if court is not recognizing the customs,how it can be enforce or protected.How u will protect such custom?An authority which is supposed to be gaurdian of law and fairness if allow same gotra marriage instead of long standing restriction by almost all comunities. is it not illegal?
if it is the same provisions of all comunities than why their is saving clause in HMA and pharse like "where there is custom allow". as per your interpratation what about that custom does not allow.

I have repeated several times the purpose of the clause as per my understanding. You being a lawyer (I think), I'd expect better phrases from you than "saving clause". What do you mean by that? If the clause is not there, then it means that the custom is illegal de-facto. So an existing custom becomes illegal. It doesn't convert the custom into a law. It merely ensures that law doesn't disallow the custom. What you are demanding is to convert a custom into a law. Being a lawyer, you should understand the difference.

You have also again and again misrepresented the law by saying that there are provisions for South Indians in the law. Fyi- there is no community called South Indian. They are as diverse group of people, if not more, as North Indians. And the law doesn't name any community for any clause. It would be equally valid for any North/North-easterm, Western, Eastern community as for any community in South India. Do you know all communities across length and breadth of India to make sweeping generalisations like "saving clause" put for sake of "South Indians"?

Do you know how many customs are there in India? Should the state step in and enforce all of them through law? Let me think of a few- touching in laws' feet, doing maan-taan on special occasions, ghoonghat, etc etc? Do you want India to be like a Middle Eastern state where religion/custom becomes the law?

 

[kapdal]

Jitender - This clearly showed the way to counter same village marriages. Village have a restricted size of population and thus in future we may find the problems among us those Amish People are facing even though they dont marry their first cousins. Thing to be noted is that if they are not practicing first cousin marriages even though due to marriage in same gotra say they are facing these problems.

So same village marriages/same gotra marriages avoidance is also scientific (Contrary to Kapil who said science only favours restriction in close blood relation and not gotra thing)



Jitender - Again this loudly says that its better not to marry within same village or small restricted group of people. There are scientific facts behind these arguments that are indisputable. I have explained that many times and I will do that again.


All of the above clearly shows that Same Gotra/Same village avoidance have somewhere scientific evidences too. I also wrote one question on JL just like the same Kapil quoted somewhere about Same Gotra relevance ....
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...e-our-heritage&p=243229&viewfull=1#post243229

But later I didnt find any better approach than this present one. If you have any then please share.

Jitendra, all these research articles articles you have posted here are totally in agreement with what I have been saying throughout.

Physical proximity is immaterial in matters of biology. What matters, to put it bluntly, is who mates with whom. When I say blood-relations, it is strictly in biological terms and not the way it is understood popularly (father's side being khoon ka rishta and mother's side being doodh ka rishta). Any ancestor that contributes to your genes is a blood relation. At some point, you'd have a common ancestor with the person you are mating. For diversity of gene pool, farther off that common ancestor is from the current generation, the better it is. The examples you have quoted, of communities or of villages, have close ancestor overlap between mating couples, even if they are not first cousins. Our customs avoid gotras, that would mean no common ancestor over all generations in 3 gotras; but no restriction in any other gotra where you may still have a common ancestor pretty closeby.

Let me give an example. When a person P marries, usually 3 gotras are left- X(own), Y(mother's) and Z(grandmother's). But there would be lots of people in X, Y and Z gotras with whom P would NOT share a COMMON DIRECT ANCESTOR in the previous 3 generations. Still P excludes everyone from X, Y and Z. However, P would technically be okay to marry someone born in the family line of his nani's parents, who has a gotra W. There is a common ancestor here at level 3. I have attached a diagram to explain it better. If no. 3 on the chart is Nani for nos. 12, 13, 14 and 15- then as per 3 gotra rule, nos. 12, 13, 14 and 15 can marry 8,9, 10 and 11 who are grandchildren of Nani's siblings. The common ancestor is no. 1. Ditto, he can marry someone born in the family line of his dadi's maternal grandparents (level 4 common ancestor), who has a gotra V. So P leaves 20-30 generations of X, Y and Z gotras; but still has an ancestor overlap at 3rd or 4th generation in gotras V and W. Scientifically speaking, gotras don't matter, family line matters. By the way, this is just to argue about the science part of the debate. Level 3 is more than sufficient to significantly reduce the probability of genetic disorders. So our customs help a lot in avoiding genetic disorders, but they are much stricter than needed and not scientific as they focus on gotras rather than ancestors.

If you wish to understand the biology part of it, here is an extract from a post I had put long time back after doing some research.
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...kin-for-a-girl&p=218083&viewfull=1#post218083

 

[hpmalikdaboda]

The issue being discussed is whether or not HMA be amended to bar same gotra marriages. One participant suggested that Haryana Chief Minister should take the initiative and locally amend the law to bar same gotra marriages. I feel Mr. Hooda can not dream of taking such a step since such a step can be taken by a person who has the courage to say what he feels right. But in Congress culture no one except Soniaji and Rahulji have a right to say what he feels right. Moreover since HMA is a Central Act its amendment will require assent of Parliament. As regards the justifiability of such an amendment I am of the opinion that there should not be any objection to amend HMA to include same gotra marriages in the category of probibited relationship for the Jats of Haryana, UP, Rajasthan etc. In this regard it is worth mentioning that the Indian Constitution envisages that the state shall impose a Uniform Civil Code. But till date religious minorities continue to follow what they consider as their personal laws. How can Jats be denied this right? There is an age old custom among Jats that Intra gotra marriages are not allowed in the community there should not be any difficulty in incorporating this in the law. Actually if such a demand would have come from some other so called secular group it would have been accepted by now. Our caste will have to stand united to force government to accept our genuine demands otherwise we will continue to be used as a vote bank by one or the other party.

 

[virj]

Yes thats exatly how it should be said Malik shaheb. As I said earlier either make a universal law for every citizen or make it fair for everyone. Thats what our constitution's theme says.

 

[sanjaymalik]

I have repeated several times the purpose of the clause as per my understanding. You being a lawyer (I think), I'd expect better phrases from you than "saving clause". What do you mean by that? If the clause is not there, then it means that the custom is illegal de-facto. So an existing custom becomes illegal. It doesn't convert the custom into a law. It merely ensures that law doesn't disallow the custom. What you are demanding is to convert a custom into a law. Being a lawyer, you should understand the difference.

You have also again and again misrepresented the law by saying that there are provisions for South Indians in the law. Fyi- there is no community called South Indian. They are as diverse group of people, if not more, as North Indians. And the law doesn't name any community for any clause. It would be equally valid for any North/North-easterm, Western, Eastern community as for any community in South India. Do you know all communities across length and breadth of India to make sweeping generalisations like "saving clause" put for sake of "South Indians"?

Do you know how many customs are there in India? Should the state step in and enforce all of them through law? Let me think of a few- touching in laws' feet, doing maan-taan on special occasions, ghoonghat, etc etc? Do you want India to be like a Middle Eastern state where religion/custom becomes the law?

My interpretation may be wrong and I have little knowledge about customs of South Indian as well as North India. The Dravidian kinship marriage system in south India (Kerla, Karnataka, Andhra, Tamil Nadu) have exception in respect of cross cousin marriages, marriage with mother’s brother’s daughter( mama bhanji), Father’s sister Daughter marriage , to the prohibited relation and same provision was inserted by our legislature through Amendment in Special Marriage Act in year 1963 instead of HMA, the same have qualification and stamped form the HMA. And those restrictions which are given in HMA being recognized have same effect under SMA, and some relaxation by the Amendment in Dravidian Marriages. To enlighten you please go through below section which clearly speaks that even marriage may be solemnized within prohibitory relation to facilitate the custom of incest marriages. Special Marriage Act section 4-
4. Conditions relating to solemnization of special marriages

Notwithstanding anything contained in any other law for the time being in force relating to be solemnization of marriages, a marriage between any tow persons may be solemnized under this Act, if at the time of the marriage the following conditions are fulfilled, namely :-

10[(d) the parties are not within the degrees of prohibited relationship:-

Provided that where a custom governing at least one of the parties permits of a marriage between them, such marriage may be solemnized, notwithstanding that they are within the degrees of prohibited relationship; and]

12[Explanation.- In this section, "custom", in relation to a person belonging to any tribe, community, group or family, means any rule which the State Government may, by notification in the Official Gazette, specify in this behalf as applicable to members of that tribe, community, group or family :

Provided that no such notification shall be issue in relation to the members of any tribe, community, group or family, unless the State Government is satisfied-

(i) that such rule has been continuously and uniformly observed for a long time among those members;

(ii) that such rule is certain and not unreasonable or opposed to public policy; and

(iii) that such rule, if applicable only to a family, has not been discontinued by the family.]

And the same has been notified by the respective state govt’s. So let me know whether a custom can be law or not.
i will come with more, or suggest you read Mulla's book on Hindu law.

 

[vijay123]

This strengthens what I am saying all along. For such people law does not matter. There has been only one case of same gotra marriage in last three years that we know of. These are rare cases that does not follow what is written in law books otherwise this mama would not have runaway with his bhanji. Remember the law prohibits this mama bhanji relationship explicitly.

or are we ok with running away and live in relationships within same gotra by those 1 or 2 couples every 3 year if such amendment as being requested by khaps is passed?

In RatnaKheda Sirsa, a mama eloped with his Bhanji.
They are in Police custody now.

Kapil -
How will court decide in their case that custom doesn't permit this?
What if they will say that they want to follow the Exception provided to South Indians?

 

[vijay]

In RatnaKheda Sirsa, a mama eloped with his Bhanji.
They are in Police custody now.

Correction -

The Village name is Ratta kheda ( Sirsa ) and the male in not REAL Mama of the female Bhanji but yes this happenend 18-20 days ago.

The families of the boy and girl settled the issue without calling Khap Maha Panchayat from 4-5 states and without any amendment in HMA. People of Jat community in the area are not feeling insecure about their existance.

 

[kapdal]

My interpretation may be wrong and I have little knowledge about customs of South Indian as well as North India. The Dravidian kinship marriage system in south India (Kerla, Karnataka, Andhra, Tamil Nadu) have exception in respect of cross cousin marriages, marriage with mother’s brother’s daughter( mama bhanji), Father’s sister Daughter marriage , to the prohibited relation and same provision was inserted by our legislature through Amendment in Special Marriage Act in year 1963 instead of HMA, the same have qualification and stamped form the HMA. And those restrictions which are given in HMA being recognized have same effect under SMA, and some relaxation by the Amendment in Dravidian Marriages. To enlighten you please go through below section which clearly speaks that even marriage may be solemnized within prohibitory relation to facilitate the custom of incest marriages. Special Marriage Act section 4-
4. Conditions relating to solemnization of special marriages

Notwithstanding anything contained in any other law for the time being in force relating to be solemnization of marriages, a marriage between any tow persons may be solemnized under this Act, if at the time of the marriage the following conditions are fulfilled, namely :-

10[(d) the parties are not within the degrees of prohibited relationship:-

Provided that where a custom governing at least one of the parties permits of a marriage between them, such marriage may be solemnized, notwithstanding that they are within the degrees of prohibited relationship; and]

12[Explanation.- In this section, "custom", in relation to a person belonging to any tribe, community, group or family, means any rule which the State Government may, by notification in the Official Gazette, specify in this behalf as applicable to members of that tribe, community, group or family :

Provided that no such notification shall be issue in relation to the members of any tribe, community, group or family, unless the State Government is satisfied-

(i) that such rule has been continuously and uniformly observed for a long time among those members;

(ii) that such rule is certain and not unreasonable or opposed to public policy; and

(iii) that such rule, if applicable only to a family, has not been discontinued by the family.]

And the same has been notified by the respective state govt’s. So let me know whether a custom can be law or not.
i will come with more, or suggest you read Mulla's book on Hindu law.

Yes, yes, yes! You are seriously obfuscating the arguments. Did I ever say that the custom of cousin marriage doesn't exist in South India? What I said was that to say "there is a special clause for South Indians.." is a misrepresentation as the clause doesn't mention South Indians or any other community for that matter. Ofcourse, the clause is applicable to the communities in South India that have this custom. But if there are communities anywhere else in India with such customs, it'd apply to them as well.

Then, did I say this custom or any custom for that matter CAN'T become a law? Do you think that is what I have been saying through out- that it is NOT POSSIBLE to turn our custom into a law? Let's be clear. You can make any custom a law if you can get it legislated in the Parliament (if it is on Central List) or in the State Legislature (if it is on State List). So if you want a law on how much maan-taan should be done or even what color pagdi people should wear to a marriage, IT IS POSSIBLE. My question to you was should law be used to ENFORCE the specific and unique customs of different communities? Is it not enough for law to ALLOW those customs to be practised?

And to make it clear once again, I don't have any issues if this custom becomes a law. I just think the law would be:
1. not comprehensive, as it'd deal with only father-mother gotra restriction, which is rarest of rare breach. What about other restrictions?
2. ineffective in being a deterrent as people would have different ways to dodge it.

It is a bit silly, in my opinion, to get all worked up about a non-comprehensive and ineffective amendment. Maybe it boosts community's collective ego.

Basically it is a big idiotic story. We have customs. Few idiots break it. We don't like it. Some more idiots kill the first set of idiots. Some other idiots defend the killing. Some idiots in press defend the breaking of customs and brandish the entire community as Talibani. It hurts our ego. We look for excuses. HMA is there. We propose some changes that are easiest to get passed. We make a hue and cry about it. We get them passed and everyone lives happily everafter?

The underlying logic in the story is that there are no real issues, no breaking down of real bhaichara. It is all about HMA. Some idiots are breaking the customs just because there is no law stopping them from doing so. Once we have the law, the bhaichara would be back and everything would be hunky-dory. And why not- probably families spend all their time discussing laws and that is what shapes the character of their children.

Get it changed by all means. I hope the first set of idiots have a magical change of heart because of your new law and henceforth honour all gotra/village bhaichara. And if some idiots still don't fall in line, then I hope the other set of idiots are satisfied that a law is there to punish the accused and don't feel the urge to go on a killing spree. Good luck!

 

[vijay123]

Very well written.

My question is what they would do if some idiot break the custom AND law (assuming it gets enacted)? Would they just wait for the civil case to get disposed in say 10 - 15 years? Nothing is going to stop them from live in relationships or marrying in a small temple somewhere in Bihar and not registering it.

It is a bit silly, in my opinion, to get all worked up about a non-comprehensive and ineffective amendment. Maybe it boosts community's collective ego.

Basically it is a big idiotic story. We have customs. Few idiots break it. We don't like it. Some more idiots kill the first set of idiots. Some other idiots defend the killing. Some idiots in press defend the breaking of customs and brandish the entire community as Talibani. It hurts our ego. We look for excuses. HMA is there. We propose some changes that are easiest to get passed. We make a hue and cry about it. We get them passed and everyone lives happily everafter?

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Very well written.

My question is what they would do if some idiot break the custom AND law (assuming it gets enacted)? Would they just wait for the civil case to get disposed in say 10 - 15 years? Nothing is going to stop them from live in relationships or marrying in a small temple somewhere in Bihar and not registering it.

What an intelligent question by a very intelligent man
Hai Koi jawab?

 

[sidchhikara]

Gorment te karan ke kaam hote nahin ... bijli ... paani ... sadak ... aatankwadi pakadna .... saara India bhookha maran laag rhya sei .... courtesy our gorment corruption.

Kyun aade thook biloe so befizuul ki bakwaad mein.

Gorment jangal kare pachhe thare haath bhi dho degi ... ha !

 

[vijay123]

bilowan de naa hor thali ke karnege baithe huey. kaun sa yahan likhe te koi farak pade duniya mei. yahan na neta padhan aate na khap ke chaudhary er naa gaam ke bade budhe. Waise bhi ghar mei to koi sunata naa mhari yaa bakwaad, yahan kam te kam 2 - 4 log padh to le .

Gorment te karan ke kaam hote nahin ... bijli ... paani ... sadak ... aatankwadi pakadna .... saara India bhookha maran laag rhya sei .... courtesy our gorment corruption.

Kyun aade thook biloe so befizuul ki bakwaad mein.

Gorment jangal kare pachhe thare haath bhi dho degi ... ha !

 

[singhvp]

My question to you was should law be used to ENFORCE the specific and unique customs of different communities? Is it not enough for law to ALLOW those customs to be practised?

I just think the law would be:
1. not comprehensive, as it'd deal with only father-mother gotra restriction, which is rarest of rare breach. What about other restrictions?
2. ineffective in being a deterrent as people would have different ways to dodge it.

It is a bit silly, in my opinion, to get all worked up about a non-comprehensive and ineffective amendment. Maybe it boosts community's collective ego.


The underlying logic in the story is that there are no real issues, no breaking down of real bhaichara. It is all about HMA.

Get it changed by all means. I hope the first set of idiots have a magical change of heart because of your new law and henceforth honour all gotra/village bhaichara. And if some idiots still don't fall in line, then I hope the other set of idiots are satisfied that a law is there to punish the accused and don't feel the urge to go on a killing spree. Good luck!

An excellent write-up with crystalline vividness.

बकौल शायर :

माना कि इस जमी को ना गुलज़ार कर सके,
कुच्ह खार कम तो कर गये गुजरे जिधर से हम
ले दे के अपने पास फ़कत इक नजर तो है,
क्यो देखे जिन्दगी को किसी की नजर से हम



Sorry for grammatical mistakes in usage of Hindi font.

 

[singhvp]

Aao ham sab milkar pran len ki ham 'Gandhi Ji' ke bataye raste par chal kar, Satya aur Ahinsa ka rasta pakad kar apas mein bhaichare se rahen. ladai Jhagre mein kya rakha hai bhaiyo. Milkar raho. Om shanti shanti shanti

 

[ravinderjeet]

chetan bhagat ko meraa jawaab---
चेतन जी नमस्कार ,

हमें आप का आलेख देनिक जागरण में पढ़ कर बड़ा दुःख हुआ | एक तरफ तो आप कह रहे हैं की आपको गोत और खाप पंचायत के बारे में कुछ नहीं पता और फिर भी आप उनके बारे में लिखते हैं की वे फतवे देते हैं, पुराने जमाने के हैं परम्परा माननी जरूरी नहीं आदि-आदि| इसका मतलब आप पेसे कमाने के लिए कुछ भी लिख मारोगे | अगर आप परम्पराओं को नहीं मानते तो आपने शादी क्यों की ,आपने अपनी ही बहन से रिश्ता क्यों नहीं बनाया | माँ बाप की सेवा क्यों करते हो , बच्चे पैदा क्यों करते हो, उनका लालन पालन क्यों करते हो,राष्ट्रीय गीत क्यों गाते हो, राष्ट्रिय धवज को सलाम क्यों करते हो | आप को पता होना चाहिए की जाट कोई हिन्दू धरम की जाती नहीं हे ये एक कोम हे जो सब से हट कर हे और पुरे एशिया और यूरोप में फेली हुई हे | अगर भारत सरकार मुसलमानों के लिए अलग विवाह कानून बना सकती हे तो जाटों के लिए क्यों नहीं | अगर भारत में सब का अधिकार सामान हैं तो अलग-अलग जातियों के लिए आरक्षण क्यों हे | आप मुसलमानो,नाक्साल्वादियों, और अल कायदा के विरोध में क्यों नहीं लिखते जो रोज संकड़ों लोगों को मार रहे हैं | आप लिखते हैं की हिन्दू विवाह अधिनियम में संशोधन तो होने से रहा | हम ये कहना चाहते हैं की जब हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता तो छीन लिया जाता हे | दूसरी बात समाज क़ानून बनाता हे ,क़ानून से समाज नहीं बनता | जाटों से जो भिड़ा हे ,सिकंदर महान से ले कर (उसको हम महान नहीं मानते क्यों की हमने उसको हराया था ) आधुनिक भारत सरकार तक उनका कया हुआ वो आपको पता ही होगा | हमारी परम्पराएं हजारों साल पुरानी हैं और आज भी वैज्ञानिक तोर पर सही हैं | जिन खाप पंचायतों को और जाटों को आप तालिबानी कहते हैं उनोहने ही दुनिया को लोकतंतर दिया हे खेती करना और राष्ट्र राज्या की रक्ष्या करना सिखाया हे | चेतन केवल आप का नाम हे पर चेतना नहीं हे | बावली तरेड |

 

[ravinderjeet]

Aao ham sab milkar pran len ki ham 'Gandhi Ji' ke bataye raste par chal kar, Satya aur Ahinsa ka rasta pakad kar apas mein bhaichare se rahen. ladai Jhagre mein kya rakha hai bhaiyo. Milkar raho. Om shanti shanti shanti

ganghi ke bataaye raastey pe aap chaal lo,haamne jroot naa se. haam aapnaa raastaa khud banayaa karaan.

 

[anilsangwan]

Bhai bahut badhiya likha hai Ravinder. Too good.

Hope ki aap ne uske gmail pe bheja hai yeh jawaab...



For those who are unaware, he has written about Khap Panchayats in Bhaskar today... see this http://digitalimages.bhaskar.com/dainikpunjab/EpaperPdf/20052010/19cit-pg6-0.pdf

I request other members also to please send him personal mails on his id chetan.bhagat@gmail.com .... usne bhi bera paat jya Jaaton ke baare mein likhne ka....

chetan bhagat ko meraa jawaab---
चेतन जी नमस्कार ,

हमें आप का आलेख देनिक जागरण में पढ़ कर बड़ा दुःख हुआ | एक तरफ तो आप कह रहे हैं की आपको गोत और खाप पंचायत के बारे में कुछ नहीं पता और फिर भी आप उनके बारे में लिखते हैं की वे फतवे देते हैं, पुराने जमाने के हैं परम्परा माननी जरूरी नहीं आदि-आदि| इसका मतलब आप पेसे कमाने के लिए कुछ भी लिख मारोगे | अगर आप परम्पराओं को नहीं मानते तो आपने शादी क्यों की ,आपने अपनी ही बहन से रिश्ता क्यों नहीं बनाया | माँ बाप की सेवा क्यों करते हो , बच्चे पैदा क्यों करते हो, उनका लालन पालन क्यों करते हो,राष्ट्रीय गीत क्यों गाते हो, राष्ट्रिय धवज को सलाम क्यों करते हो | आप को पता होना चाहिए की जाट कोई हिन्दू धरम की जाती नहीं हे ये एक कोम हे जो सब से हट कर हे और पुरे एशिया और यूरोप में फेली हुई हे | अगर भारत सरकार मुसलमानों के लिए अलग विवाह कानून बना सकती हे तो जाटों के लिए क्यों नहीं | अगर भारत में सब का अधिकार सामान हैं तो अलग-अलग जातियों के लिए आरक्षण क्यों हे | आप मुसलमानो,नाक्साल्वादियों, और अल कायदा के विरोध में क्यों नहीं लिखते जो रोज संकड़ों लोगों को मार रहे हैं | आप लिखते हैं की हिन्दू विवाह अधिनियम में संशोधन तो होने से रहा | हम ये कहना चाहते हैं की जब हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता तो छीन लिया जाता हे | दूसरी बात समाज क़ानून बनाता हे ,क़ानून से समाज नहीं बनता | जाटों से जो भिड़ा हे ,सिकंदर महान से ले कर (उसको हम महान नहीं मानते क्यों की हमने उसको हराया था ) आधुनिक भारत सरकार तक उनका कया हुआ वो आपको पता ही होगा | हमारी परम्पराएं हजारों साल पुरानी हैं और आज भी वैज्ञानिक तोर पर सही हैं | जिन खाप पंचायतों को और जाटों को आप तालिबानी कहते हैं उनोहने ही दुनिया को लोकतंतर दिया हे खेती करना और राष्ट्र राज्या की रक्ष्या करना सिखाया हे | चेतन केवल आप का नाम हे पर चेतना नहीं हे | बावली तरेड |

 

[sanjaymalik]

Whether HMA is a Uniform Civil Code or Genric Law

Classical Hindu law specified certain rules of exogamy which were quite extensive in their range of prohibitions .intermarriage was banned between kin in the patrilineal
line of descent from putative gotra and pravara ancestors.
The gotras, are exogamous patrilineal clans whose members descent from eponymous Hindu Sages, while the pravara are similarly exogamous units, subordinate to the gotra, to which they are complexly related.
Properly speaking, the gotras and pravaras are restricted.

Properly speaking pertaining to the HMA was brought up in connection with the SMA. The fact that two Hindus can choose to be marry under either Act. Further complicated matters, since legislators were acutely aware that the provisions of the one might undermine the legislative intent of the other.

Introducing a uniform civil law for the whole country, and that a model system of marriage was being introduced in form of HMA. The whole idea was ridiculous. If the aim of the Code was to unify, clarify and reform the Hindu law of marriage, why deviant customs should be given recognition. we say that it is binding on all and in the rest of the clauses we say it is not binding on all the Hindus because of prevail personal customs. Where exits custom than instead of HMA custom will prevail.

 

[cooljat]

Bhai tumne to kati asli Jaton aala jawab de diya iss Bhagatiya ne .. I wonder why the hell such so called psudo-intellectual a$$holes are pocking their f##in nose in our affairs. Only Jats got to discuss community's issues. They bloody don't know anything about our culture, customs n' still talk a lot. Bhagat like monkeys should get punch on their face !

chetan bhagat ko meraa jawaab---
चेतन जी नमस्कार ,

हमें आप का आलेख देनिक जागरण में पढ़ कर बड़ा दुःख हुआ | एक तरफ तो आप कह रहे हैं की आपको गोत और खाप पंचायत के बारे में कुछ नहीं पता और फिर भी आप उनके बारे में लिखते हैं की वे फतवे देते हैं, पुराने जमाने के हैं परम्परा माननी जरूरी नहीं आदि-आदि| इसका मतलब आप पेसे कमाने के लिए कुछ भी लिख मारोगे | अगर आप परम्पराओं को नहीं मानते तो आपने शादी क्यों की ,आपने अपनी ही बहन से रिश्ता क्यों नहीं बनाया | माँ बाप की सेवा क्यों करते हो , बच्चे पैदा क्यों करते हो, उनका लालन पालन क्यों करते हो,राष्ट्रीय गीत क्यों गाते हो, राष्ट्रिय धवज को सलाम क्यों करते हो | आप को पता होना चाहिए की जाट कोई हिन्दू धरम की जाती नहीं हे ये एक कोम हे जो सब से हट कर हे और पुरे एशिया और यूरोप में फेली हुई हे | अगर भारत सरकार मुसलमानों के लिए अलग विवाह कानून बना सकती हे तो जाटों के लिए क्यों नहीं | अगर भारत में सब का अधिकार सामान हैं तो अलग-अलग जातियों के लिए आरक्षण क्यों हे | आप मुसलमानो,नाक्साल्वादियों, और अल कायदा के विरोध में क्यों नहीं लिखते जो रोज संकड़ों लोगों को मार रहे हैं | आप लिखते हैं की हिन्दू विवाह अधिनियम में संशोधन तो होने से रहा | हम ये कहना चाहते हैं की जब हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता तो छीन लिया जाता हे | दूसरी बात समाज क़ानून बनाता हे ,क़ानून से समाज नहीं बनता | जाटों से जो भिड़ा हे ,सिकंदर महान से ले कर (उसको हम महान नहीं मानते क्यों की हमने उसको हराया था ) आधुनिक भारत सरकार तक उनका कया हुआ वो आपको पता ही होगा | हमारी परम्पराएं हजारों साल पुरानी हैं और आज भी वैज्ञानिक तोर पर सही हैं | जिन खाप पंचायतों को और जाटों को आप तालिबानी कहते हैं उनोहने ही दुनिया को लोकतंतर दिया हे खेती करना और राष्ट्र राज्या की रक्ष्या करना सिखाया हे | चेतन केवल आप का नाम हे पर चेतना नहीं हे | बावली तरेड |

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Bhai tumne to kati asli Jaton aala jawab de diya iss Bhagatiya ne .. I wonder why the hell such so called psudo-intellectual a$$holes are pocking their f##in nose in our affairs. Only Jats got to discuss community's issues. They bloody don't know anything about our culture, customs n' still talk a lot. Bhagat like monkeys should get punch on their face !

Ya uski roji roti hai je likhega nahi to bikega nahi fer usne bhi jholi leke jata ke barne mangan aana padega. Jitni controversy utni sale .