Social Signalling thru Expenditure on Marriages

[jagmohan]

HA HA HA

Bhai Sumit,

Le sun le baat. In my car: I was driving and my father in Law was in the co drivers seat. Pichhli seat pe meri Maa, Saas or Biwi. Kitne hogay - paanch.
My son & his friend alongwith my brother, his wife and daughter in the second car. Kitne hogay - paanch. Five per car and as per the law.

What were you thinking? That I went like the Dahiya's of Kharkhoda do, 55 to a tempo!!! Bhai, yu majak chaal rya se, kade saare Dahiya kathye ho lein!!!

Par asli baat ka koi zikra nahin karya?

Khush raho.

Regards,

JS Malik

 

[dahiyarules]

hahaha @ Kharkhodey aale Dahiya!

I want to relate an incident that happened when I first came to the US.

When I went to college in India, I used to take the "U special," every weekday morning. As some of you might have done it during your Delhi University days, you know how cramped up those buses are. If you get some space to step on the stairwell, feel fortunate.

Soon after I started going to college in the US, one fine day I took a bus to school for the first time. There was another jat from Karnal, with me. The bus actually stopped at the bus stop, unlike the DTC that just slows down to allow you to try your swinging skills. The door opened, and let us in. I was shocked for a moment as I entered the buss. I told my friend: oo tere ki! aaday tay baitthan tahin bakayda seat sain." Even today my friend thinks that I was kidding. But, actually I was seriously shocked to find empty seats on a campus bus service.

I hope this brings a warm close to the discussion. I am of strong "patriarchal leaning" opinions. I dont think that we the younger folk deserve to comment on issues like how parents organize their childrens' marriages. It is a big responsibility to be a parent. And above all, it takes a lot to raise smart children. Thus parents of marriagable children are very smart and experienced people. If they want to do something in a certain manner, they must have thought deeply about it, before they go ahead with their decesion.

No offense to anyone. Lets just keep things going the way they have been for generations, in our jat community. Its only the old traditions that have held together our community. Please do not think that I have outdated thoughts. I have spent a decent amount of time in the "real haryana." And I have travelled accross four continents. I have come to this conclusion after a lot of deep thought and analysis.

 

[arunshamli]

dhoom-dhaam

Malik Chacha,

You must ask your son and hone wali bahu:-What kind of function they want? Shadi unki hain and their opinion must be taken before anything else...they must not feel for their whole life ke aapne unki shadi me kuch nahi kiya tha......

ab meri sun lijiye sir....arr haan koi bat buri lage toh gussa mat hona...waie log mujhse aajkal naraj bahut jaldi ho jate hain....

1. you mentioned ke aap log ring ceremoney ke liye 2 cars me gaye the and the total number of people were around 10. toh barat me kam se kam 5 guna log toh jayenge hee.... isme katoti karna bahut mushkil hoga...and If you try to control everything, meri bat likh lo ....aap bahut sare rishtedaron and friends ko naraj kar sakte hain....ek cheej jo abhee tak aapko khud samajh me nahi aayee ...woh itne logon ko kaise samajha sakte hain...I think people would expect a decent fucntion for the mariage of your only son.

2. agar paise kee kami hai toh loan leker shadi mat karna....hamare bade budho ne kahan hai ke karza lekar kabhe shadi nahi karni chahiye...woh alag bat hai ke hamare bade budhe jo kahate hain karte bilkul uska ulta hain....shadi me khub karja lete hain...aur fir sari umar bhugat-te hain....NEVER NEVER AND NEVER take a loan for the marriage.


My suggestiion: if you have money, toh khub dhoomdham se shadi karo....and make it a memorable moment. agar paise kee kami hai toh fir majboori hain, Which i do not think is true in your case. Mumbai Jat meet ke photo dekhe the hamne bhee....dikhne me toh ekdam seth lagte hain....kisi company ke CEO jaise....

ek bat aur , agar aap apna paisa kharach nahi karenge toh koi aur aapke paise par aish karega(unless it is invested in a business...q ki bank wale interest bahut kam dete hain...and loan pe khub kamate hain)....we must all save money but we must spend also...paisa tabhee sukh deta hai jab spend kiya jata hain...if you do not spend , it does not matter how big your bank balance is....


and court marriage ki toh sochna bhee mat....court marrigae abhee tak India me ya toh woh log karte hain jo ghar se bhagkar shadi karte hain ya fir anathalya wale log ek hee sath 100-100 logon ko court me le jakar nipta dete hain....

If I were you, I would not even think about the court marriage.

 

[arunshamli]

hahaha @ Kharkhodey aale Dahiya!

No offense to anyone. Lets just keep things going the way they have been for generations, in our jat community. Its only the old traditions that have held together our community. Please do not think that I have outdated thoughts. I have spent a decent amount of time in the "real haryana." And I have travelled accross four continents. I have come to this conclusion after a lot of deep thought and analysis.

Sumit Dahia, I like most of your posts...par bhai kal wa chamar wali padh ke ib lo hasi aan lag ree hai....specialy the last line...I hate chamars and if anyone has any problem...email me.....

kati rog kat diya bhaii......

 

[ratananmol]

dahiyarules:All men folk who got agonized by the plight of the father who is willing to part with 3.5 lakh rupees, have an option to stay unmarried. This will help you save the girl's father some money. And, you can live upto your principles.

Dude: What made you feel that feeling bad with this problem has anything personal. Does commenting on that father's plight amounts to the fact that someone is trying to get married to that "girl"? I dont see the link.

dahiyarules:Actually, I am unsure about how many people who posted on this thread actually believe in what they said. When their turns comes, they all are willing to make exceptions.


How do you know what will happen?How many of them you know personally?

dahiyarules:And by god I will say it again. In susre chamaron ne hee aaj kal humare naak mein dum de rakha hai. Inko jab tak inki asliyat nahin bataoge susre sarr pe pe chadhe rahenge.
dahiyarules:I hate chamars. And I hate them from the bottom of my heart. If anyone has a prblem email me.

This is strictly your problem.
AR.
(Please dont send hate mail or anything like that.)

 

[ratananmol]

Firstly, I should clarify to Anmol Ratan that I didn't mean to degrade another human being by refering to a schedule caste person as ****** (I will not even write it if it offends another member). But let me tell you how Mayawati, a National Leader as you know, starts her speeches. She says proudly "Main Chamari Hoon, Kuwari Hoon, Tumhari Hoon", or words to that effect. On a personal note, when I was in sixth standard (1969) I offered a glass of water to the ****** who worked exclusively on our fields (as was/is the practice in villages) and then washed the glass myself. And this was done in my village and in full public view, to the astonsihment of many JATS.

Regards,

JS Malik

Dear Malik Uncle:
Aapme aur Mayawati me kuch difference hai aur nahi hai to hona chahiye. I appreciate the fact that as a child you were free from the conditioning which led you to the act of cleaning glasses.I am optimistic that some effort will remove the bad conditioning that has occured overtime.As you have written elsewhere that people were looking for the job of MODs but let me tell you that it is good to have MOD like you who can accept mistakes rather than the ones who turn a deaf ear to their faults.
Namaste,
Anmol.

 

[jagmohan]

Dear Malik Uncle:
Aapme aur Mayawati me kuch difference hai aur nahi hai to hona chahiye. I appreciate the fact that as a child you were free from the conditioning which led you to the act of cleaning glasses.I am optimistic that some effort will remove the bad conditioning that has occured overtime.As you have written elsewhere that people were looking for the job of MODs but let me tell you that it is good to have MOD like you who can accept mistakes rather than the ones who turn a deaf ear to their faults.
Namaste,
Anmol.

Dear Anmol,

Of course there is a difference between me and Mayawati and the proof is that I am a member of JATLAND and nor ********* (whatever site they may have for themselves).

To be frank conditioning ki jaroorat kabhi padi hi nahin. This is not the right place to discuss why, because a lot many personal examples come along and that is not liked by many members, and rightly so.

I am always the first one to accept a mistake. I must have said sorry a number of times even to a Jawan during my service. And I always meant it.

Bhai, rahi baat MOD ki. One would try and contribute as honestly as possible and in the light God shows me.

And lastly, the main topic remains undiscussed like so many times, which is sad. May be members would do so during the weekend.

Regards,

JS Malik

 

[jagmohan]

Thanks..

Malik Chacha,
My suggestiion: if you have money, toh khub dhoomdham se shadi karo....and make it a memorable moment. agar paise kee kami hai toh fir majboori hain, Which i do not think is true in your case. Mumbai Jat meet ke photo dekhe the hamne bhee....dikhne me toh ekdam seth lagte hain....kisi company ke CEO jaise....

Dear Arun,

Thanks for real honest comments. Bilkul vo hi karoonga jo karna chhahiye. Garden City Resort ki booking karva di hai. You must have seen that a number of times while taking the Meerut By Pass road. Vohi Coffee Cafe Day wala..

Bhai CEO jaise kyon, I am indeed CEO of a Company called 'My Family'. Bagwan ne sehat bhi seth jisi a de rakhi hai. Actually it is because of good food, a lot of laughter, drinks in moderation and friends like you.

Khush raho.

JS Malik

 

[arunshamli]

When is the wedding?

Dear Arun,

Thanks for real honest comments. Bilkul vo hi karoonga jo karna chhahiye. Garden City Resort ki booking karva di hai. You must have seen that a number of times while taking the Meerut By Pass road. Vohi Coffee Cafe Day wala..

Bhai CEO jaise kyon, I am indeed CEO of a Company called 'My Family'. Bagwan ne sehat bhi seth jisi a de rakhi hai. Actually it is because of good food, a lot of laughter, drinks in moderation and friends like you.

Khush raho.

JS Malik

Dear Malik Sir, bahut hee very good decision...lekin ek cheej aapne achchi nahi ki ...6 maheene toh ghana time ho...q balkon ne tapasya karwa re ho...

BTW, aap UP se hain ki Haryana se? just curious

 

[arundagar]

I am not sure that personal questions can be replied but Social Signalling thru Expenditure on Marriages –may or may not be intended, is a hard reality. And dowry (the bigger issue!) is a part of it, which I think is a blessing in disguise also.

Don’t jump to conclusions and just recall ads for brides (don’t go far in Jatland itself):

Slim, beautiful, tall, fair, educated, working, professional, educated family background, well connected family background, high status family and so on and so forth. Nothing wrong in it but then how many qualify?
.
.
So what about others? And who doesn’t want good match for their children? Here comes the dowry as an essential part while it’s there in other cases too.

I hope all understands what I am trying to say without going further. So without dowry many marriages would not have happened and many may not happen.

But I am strongly against any torture on the name of dowry. After marriage which is a conscious decision and we all do after due deliberations on both ends, if anyone makes issues, start blaming other side and so on and so forth, should be boycotted socially and punished by law of land.

And I strongly believe that it is the boy who is to be blamed first. If he is strong, the issue will not blow up further.

Dowry No dowry is personal choice! But I yet to see a JAT marriage without expenses (Big or small is subjective!) if one is connected to society – relatives and friends.

 

[crsnadar]

My opinion is with Malik Uncle

Dear All,
I think we should credit to the way of living not to to the cast.
I have seen so many SC/Sts who keep there there way of living well clean.
So, there is no harm to eat or drink with them.
I prefer to accompanied with a fellow who keep himself clean & well behaved wether he is JAT or JATAV.
If a Jat keeps himself dirty & not wellbehave then it is good to have a company of wellbehaved JATAV than that JAT.
Mayawati is not the Thekedaarni of SC/STs. There r many JATAVs who well respect JATs.
However there is no way of Inter Caste marriage between them, but at least we can give them some respect which they are hungry since a long period.

Now regarding the Expenditure on marriage issue, I would again say that within limits (without dowry) no problem in spending money on marriage ceremonies,

Otherwise I afraid we will lose our basic human behaviour (Specially Indian) & Community Idendity, as marriage ceremonies are of the valuable ways for the community people to unite.

There are lots of Riti & Rivaaj's which have lots of hidden importance in them.

Bye
RAHUL NADAR

 

[sansanwalamit]

shocked

I am very shocked to read all these posts that sing accolades to prevailing cast system, forget about republicans(tories) now we even have self proclaimed libertarians being discriminatory (I guess this is why I have never agreed with these no good anarchists)
What are we forgetting here?
We are forgetting that we are Jats, people that spent a long time to be accepeted in the Vedic caste system, even today you can find some fanatics who would bet their bottom dollar to prove that Jats are not Kshatriyas but petty Shudras. And still we are raising canons against those so called Shudras, come on WAKE UP its high time. Your own Jat brothers are going out to the end of the world to get the OBC status and you are still discriminating amongst "one of your kinds", where is that so called Jat chivalry or the garland of virtues.
For me to be a Jat is to be virtuous (if there is a word) I have always felt proud of being one coz we do not judge our actons based upon the stupid castism. I do come from a village where we have a seperate enclosure for Shudras but that is simply because of the vocations they undertook and the eating habits they had. But in today's world where I have seen so many of not just non-veg eating but even beef eating Jats, I reach to a conclusion that there are no Shudras, everyone is equal and its our KARMA that defines our caste.
I hope everyone understands this and feels that we should not judge people by their birth. And for people like Mayawati, well such people are successful because pf stupid people like you. She is the smart one here because she benefits from your stupidities and makes her fortune. The day we do not have discriminatory people like you we will not have Mayawati.

 

[dahiyarules]

I am very shocked to read all these posts that sing accolades to prevailing cast system, forget about republicans(tories) now we even have self proclaimed libertarians being discriminatory (I guess this is why I have never agreed with these no good anarchists)
What are we forgetting here?
We are forgetting that we are Jats, people that spent a long time to be accepeted in the Vedic caste system, even today you can find some fanatics who would bet their bottom dollar to prove that Jats are not Kshatriyas but petty Shudras. And still we are raising canons against those so called Shudras, come on WAKE UP its high time. Your own Jat brothers are going out to the end of the world to get the OBC status and you are still discriminating amongst "one of your kinds", where is that so called Jat chivalry or the garland of virtues.
For me to be a Jat is to be virtuous (if there is a word) I have always felt proud of being one coz we do not judge our actons based upon the stupid castism. I do come from a village where we have a seperate enclosure for Shudras but that is simply because of the vocations they undertook and the eating habits they had. But in today's world where I have seen so many of not just non-veg eating but even beef eating Jats, I reach to a conclusion that there are no Shudras, everyone is equal and its our KARMA that defines our caste.
I hope everyone understands this and feels that we should not judge people by their birth. And for people like Mayawati, well such people are successful because pf stupid people like you. She is the smart one here because she benefits from your stupidities and makes her fortune. The day we do not have discriminatory people like you we will not have Mayawati.

I have said thi in my other posts also.

I do not have a problem with Chamaars. I just ahve a problem with what they have done to our country. They have hijacked the system in the name of equality and democracy. There are stupid, and completely nonsense bills being passed in the parliament announcing reservations for Chamaars in all kind of institutions. Over 50 years of reservatons and special incentives have failed to improve the status of this community. Such that they are still in need of reservations and special incentives. If you really believe in equality, then you must strive for an equal playing ground for everyone.

Hate and biases are natural. It has got nothing to do with political leanind. I want ask this jat bhai from Edmonton Canada: Would you marry a black women? Let me make it easier. Woud you marry a Chamaarni?

I do not want an answer. keep it to yourself. You got my point.

I do not want to argue in favor of biases. Have them if they help you. I have biases, because they help me. Dont have them if they do njot help you. But do not attack others views by taking low shots at their political leanings or private opinions. Bring facts and figures if you want to dispute an idea.

Look. I just have a conflict of opinion with some of you. Personally I like everyone and thus respect everyone too. Ibelieve in diversity when it comes to discussion. You bring good points. I hope that we leave our differences at the discussion table when we leave it. I am sure you all are wonderful people in real lives.

 

[scsheorayan]

It is a matter of priority

Dear friends,
This topic was started with condemnation of expenditure in marriage. But was side tracked with cast issues. Even though both are emotional issues I would like to keep my comments to marriage only. Request those members who express demeaning opinions about a particular cast to please correct your postings as they are not appreciated or condoned. It is a community forum and our intention is to maintain as high an ethical standard as possible.

Coming back to the subject of marriages and expenditures. We can not tell some one how to spend his/her hard earned money. Person spends depending on his capacity and priority, some times value for money considerations are also weighed in. One thing is certain you can not make some one happy by spending money or even by giving it away in various forms e.g. Dowry, gifts etc. Each one of us has limited resources and use it according to our priorities in life. While spending on food,shelter, education etc is all important it is also important in our culture to share the happiness of marrying children with friends and relatives. So it ends up being a big party and every one hopefully enjoys it. Within last half a century priorities have changed a lot. The emphasis is greater on show and material things rather than human emotions and feelings. There can only be one top priority either it is feelings or it is glitter of materialism. Now for most people the emphasis is more on material possessions than the emotional attachments. Boy wants a car, his father wants a tractor and mother wants some ornaments all of which are material things about which they can boast to their friends. But how does Bahu behave or family members behave with her probably no one wants to talk about. Human emotions have the potential to make us happy or unhappy and spread it to rest of the family. Therefore in my opinion what is most important is not how educated or beautiful or rich a girl or boy is but how understanding they are of others besides themselves. If there is no understanding no amount of spending or saving money is going to help. Thus first priority in a marriage should be understanding and behaviour of all parties and family members.

One thing strikes odd and hope it does not mean what it literally says because that will only indicate total ignorance about importance of a marriage in our culture. Why should any one want to have 5 graduate strangers instead of 50 relatives and friends who may be post graduates or illiterate that should not matter. After you have saved all the expenses of marriage what are you going to do with it. Give gift to children so they can live in luxury. Are you not depriving them of the opportunity to acquire their own luxuries and value them. Any thing received easily is seldom valued.
"Poot sapoot, kyon dhan sanche!
Poot kapoot, kyon dhan sanche!!"

Good luck to all

 

[devdahiya]

Reluctantly i post my final opinion on this very important topic.I tend to agree with Mr Shubha Chand to a great extent. If i have to go for a marriage which i have to shortly, i will keep it as simple as i can by keeping the unwanted expenditure at bay. Relatives are important but only those who have mutual concerns and not one and sudary. I would like to take as few a members in Barat[in case of son's marriage] as can meet the social requirement [Incase it is a marriage by Hindu rites]..ie not more than 5 people to be precise[ In our family we have followed it for two generations]. Call all relatives at my place and treat them as best as i can without flaunting anything. At the end of the day money saved by avoiding wasteful expenditure can be used for the young family to tide over the initial financial requirements towards settling down in a new house smoothly. Money is never enough and thus has to be properly accounted for. Having said that it will be my priority to spare the LADKI wallas of the agony of meeting the diktats of groom family by accepting a token rupee and sabji roti. Even a court marriage will be good enough for me if it helps both the families. I would like to invest the money[ if i have a lot] in shaping the lives of my children by providing them with best of the education, money can buy[well befor they get married] so that their future is bright and they can have a quality life. If i can spare still, i would like to help my sisters and other family members,who may not be as fortunate as me..........and then a little bit of charity goes a long way in giving a soothing effect to the life's fag days.



If it happens to be the marriage of my daughter, i will expect the same from the groom's family with little bit of adjustment,here and there. For me prority will be the competibility of the couple and a bright future rather than spending my life long savings within 24 hours....thats too scary a feeling and i wish not to think on those lines at all.


However, i have nothing against anybody wanting to celeberate the occasion with lots of fanfare and candle lit dinner as afterall No two fingers are the same and so are the priorities of life very different and unique.


Tete paon pasariye jeti lambi sorr
Warna dukh tu payega, Aish kare koi aur.



Regards