The Dahiya-Israeli Connection

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devdahiya said:
It is very interesting stuff..........Mr Burdak is called upon to through more light please.
Click to expand...


Bamel also seems to have some connection with Israel.In google search bamels have connection with Israel Temple.
Jat is world caste.
 
omnipresent

i think we jats are omnipresent i am not remembering now but many times i have comeaccros similar jat gotras
 
There is no doubt that Dahiyas have some deep link with the Israel. Question now arises if Dahiyas went there from India or vice verse? In one of the link there is talk of Dahiya Goddess ruling the jarva tribe. Interestingly we have Jarva tribe in Andaman islands also...

One comes across of towns like Ramallah also in Palestine. Then we have Ramala in western UP. Arabs talk of Ramallah as Ram+ allah, which does not seem to have any logic. In my view the original word must have been Ramalya ( House of Ram). Area around Damascus is called Sham and any one coming from Damascus is call Shamli. One wonders if the town of Shamli in western UP has anything to do with this? Ram and Sham are very common words in the ares around Palestine and Syria.

From some of these findings one thing seems certain that Jats have some very old links to the present day areas of Israel, Turkey, Armenia, Jordan and Syria.

RK^2
 
Towns on Jat gotras

Search of Surnames on internet shows that Jat Surnames are very common in Eurasia. It indicates Jat gotras have been preserved by our people religiously but have adopted religion as per local situations. A research is needed to find the links. Here is a list of Jat gotras based on which are places all over world.
Punia : Punia town is there in Lithania
Chahar: Chahar is a province in Mongolia
Tomar: Tomar is a town in Portugal
Dabas: Dabas is a town in Hungary
Lamba: Lamba is a place in Scotland
Chahal: Chahal is a municipality in Guatemalan
Aula: Aula is latin word meaning 'hall'
Ula: Ula is a tribe of Manchu clan
Reni: Reni was capital of Jakhar king in Bikaner region. Reni is also a town in Ukrain. Renu is also a town in Rajasthan
Buldak: Buldak, a variant of Burdak, is a town in Afghanistan
Takhar: Takhar is a province in Afghanistan
It is a partial list. It certainly indicates foundation of these towns based on gotras. It can not be a coincidence.
Regards
 
Jat brothers,
Ram Ram. The reason for Jat being a global person, is given in the following text. Pl read full article in the given link and derive your conclusions.

Was the Kaaba Originally a Hindu Temple?

By P.N. Oak (Historian)
Glancing through some research material recently, I was pleasantly surprised to come across a reference to a king Vikramaditya inscription found in the Kaaba in Mecca proving beyond doubt that the Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire.
The text of the crucial Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded on page 315 of a volume known as ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey. Rendered in free English the inscription says:
"Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king Vikram’s reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for her life in the cruel paws of a wolf we Arabs were caught up in ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in a darkness so intense as on a new moon night. But the present dawn and pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favour of the noble king Vikramaditya whose benevolent supervision did not lose sight of us- foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred religion amongst us and sent scholars whose brilliance shone like that of the sun from his country to ours. These scholars and preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again made cognisant of the presence of God, introduced to His sacred existence and put on the road of Truth, had come to our country to preach their religion and impart education at king Vikramaditya’s behest."
For those who would like to read the Arabic wording I reproduce it hereunder in Roman script:
"Itrashaphai Santu Ibikramatul Phahalameen Karimun Yartapheeha Wayosassaru Bihillahaya Samaini Ela Motakabberen Sihillaha Yuhee Quid min howa Yapakhara phajjal asari nahone osirom bayjayhalem. Yundan blabin Kajan blnaya khtoryaha sadunya kanateph netephi bejehalin Atadari bilamasa- rateen phakef tasabuhu kaunnieja majekaralhada walador. As hmiman burukankad toluho watastaru hihila Yakajibaymana balay kulk amarena phaneya jaunabilamary Bikramatum".
(Page 315 Sayar-ul-okul).
[Note: The title ‘Saya-ul-okul’ signifies memorable words.]

A careful analysis of the above inscription enables us to draw the following conclusions:
That the ancient Indian empires may have extended up to the eastern boundaries of Arabia until Vikramaditya and that it was he who for the first time conquered Arabia. Because the inscription says that king Vikram who dispelled the darkness of ignorance from Arabia.
That, whatever their earlier faith, King Vikrama’s preachers had succeeded in spreading the Vedic (based on the Vedas, the Hindu sacred scriptures)) way of life in Arabia.
That the knowledge of Indian arts and sciences was imparted by Indians to the Arabs directly by founding schools, academies and cultural centres. The belief, therefore, that visiting Arabs conveyed that knowledge to their own lands through their own indefatigable efforts and scholarship is unfounded.

An ancillary conclusion could be that the so-called Kutub Minar (in Delhi, India) could well be king Vikramadiya’s tower commemorating his conquest of Arabia. This conclusion is strengthened by two pointers. Firstly, the inscription on the iron pillar near the so-called Kutub Minar refers to the marriage of the victorious king Vikramaditya to the princess of Balhika. This Balhika is none other than the Balkh region in West Asia. It could be that Arabia was wrestled by king Vikramaditya from the ruler of Balkh who concluded a treaty by giving his daughter in marriage to the victor. Secondly, the township adjoining the so called Kutub Minar is named Mehrauli after Mihira who was the renowned astronomer-mathematician of king Vikram’s court. Mehrauli is the corrupt form of Sanskrit ‘Mihira-Awali’ signifying a row of houses raised for Mihira and his helpers and assistants working on astronomical observations made from the tower.
Having seen the far reaching and history shaking implications of the Arabic inscription concerning king Vikrama, we shall now piece together the story of its find. How it came to be recorded and hung in the Kaaba in Mecca. What are the other proofs reinforcing the belief that Arabs were once followers of the Indian Vedic way of life and that tranquillity and education were ushered into Arabia by king Vikramaditya’s scholars, educationists from an uneasy period of "ignorance and turmoil" mentioned in the inscription.
In Istanbul, Turkey, there is a famous library called Makhatab-e-Sultania, which is reputed to have the largest collection of ancient West Asian literature. In the Arabic section of that library is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. That anthology was compiled from an earlier work in A.D. 1742 under the orders of the Turkish ruler Sultan Salim.



But the OKAJ fair was far from a carnival. It provided a forum for the elite and the learned to discuss the social, religious, political, literary and other aspects of the Vedic culture then pervading Arabia. ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ asserts that the conclusion reached at those discussions were widely respected throughout Arabia. Mecca, therefore, followed the Varanasi tradition (of India) of providing a venue for important discussions among the learned while the masses congregated there for spiritual bliss. The principal shrines at both Varanasi in India and at Mecca in Arvasthan (Arabia) were Siva temples. Even to this day ancient Mahadev (Siva) emblems can be seen. It is the Shankara (Siva) stone that Muslim pilgrims reverently touch and kiss in the Kaaba.

Arabic tradition has lost trace of the founding of the Kaaba temple. The discovery of the Vikramaditya inscription affords a clue. King Vikramaditya is known for his great devotion to Lord Mahadev (Siva). At Ujjain (India), the capital of Vikramaditya, exists the famous shrine of Mahankal, i.e., of Lord Shankara (Siva) associated with Vikramaditya. Since according to the Vikramaditya inscription he spread the Vedic religion, who else but he could have founded the Kaaba temple in Mecca?
A few miles away from Mecca is a big signboard which bars the entry of any non-Muslim into the area. This is a reminder of the days when the Kaaba was stormed and captured solely for the newly established faith of Islam. The object in barring entry of non-Muslims was obviously to prevent its recapture.




http://www.hknet.org.nz/VWH-Kaaba.html
 
Jat brothers,
Ram Ram. The reason for Jat being a global person, is given in the following text. Pl read full article in the given link and derive your conclusions.

Was the Kaaba Originally a Hindu Temple?

By P.N. Oak (Historian)
Glancing through some research material recently, I was pleasantly surprised to come across a reference to a king Vikramaditya inscription found in the Kaaba in Mecca proving beyond doubt that the Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire.
The text of the crucial Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded on page 315 of a volume known as ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey. Rendered in free English the inscription says:
"Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king Vikram’s reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for her life in the cruel paws of a wolf we Arabs were caught up in ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in a darkness so intense as on a new moon night. But the present dawn and pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favour of the noble king Vikramaditya whose benevolent supervision did not lose sight of us- foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred religion amongst us and sent scholars whose brilliance shone like that of the sun from his country to ours. These scholars and preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again made cognisant of the presence of God, introduced to His sacred existence and put on the road of Truth, had come to our country to preach their religion and impart education at king Vikramaditya’s behest."
For those who would like to read the Arabic wording I reproduce it hereunder in Roman script:
"Itrashaphai Santu Ibikramatul Phahalameen Karimun Yartapheeha Wayosassaru Bihillahaya Samaini Ela Motakabberen Sihillaha Yuhee Quid min howa Yapakhara phajjal asari nahone osirom bayjayhalem. Yundan blabin Kajan blnaya khtoryaha sadunya kanateph netephi bejehalin Atadari bilamasa- rateen phakef tasabuhu kaunnieja majekaralhada walador. As hmiman burukankad toluho watastaru hihila Yakajibaymana balay kulk amarena phaneya jaunabilamary Bikramatum".
(Page 315 Sayar-ul-okul).
[Note: The title ‘Saya-ul-okul’ signifies memorable words.]

A careful analysis of the above inscription enables us to draw the following conclusions:
That the ancient Indian empires may have extended up to the eastern boundaries of Arabia until Vikramaditya and that it was he who for the first time conquered Arabia. Because the inscription says that king Vikram who dispelled the darkness of ignorance from Arabia.
That, whatever their earlier faith, King Vikrama’s preachers had succeeded in spreading the Vedic (based on the Vedas, the Hindu sacred scriptures)) way of life in Arabia.
That the knowledge of Indian arts and sciences was imparted by Indians to the Arabs directly by founding schools, academies and cultural centres. The belief, therefore, that visiting Arabs conveyed that knowledge to their own lands through their own indefatigable efforts and scholarship is unfounded.

An ancillary conclusion could be that the so-called Kutub Minar (in Delhi, India) could well be king Vikramadiya’s tower commemorating his conquest of Arabia. This conclusion is strengthened by two pointers. Firstly, the inscription on the iron pillar near the so-called Kutub Minar refers to the marriage of the victorious king Vikramaditya to the princess of Balhika. This Balhika is none other than the Balkh region in West Asia. It could be that Arabia was wrestled by king Vikramaditya from the ruler of Balkh who concluded a treaty by giving his daughter in marriage to the victor. Secondly, the township adjoining the so called Kutub Minar is named Mehrauli after Mihira who was the renowned astronomer-mathematician of king Vikram’s court. Mehrauli is the corrupt form of Sanskrit ‘Mihira-Awali’ signifying a row of houses raised for Mihira and his helpers and assistants working on astronomical observations made from the tower.
Having seen the far reaching and history shaking implications of the Arabic inscription concerning king Vikrama, we shall now piece together the story of its find. How it came to be recorded and hung in the Kaaba in Mecca. What are the other proofs reinforcing the belief that Arabs were once followers of the Indian Vedic way of life and that tranquillity and education were ushered into Arabia by king Vikramaditya’s scholars, educationists from an uneasy period of "ignorance and turmoil" mentioned in the inscription.
In Istanbul, Turkey, there is a famous library called Makhatab-e-Sultania, which is reputed to have the largest collection of ancient West Asian literature. In the Arabic section of that library is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. That anthology was compiled from an earlier work in A.D. 1742 under the orders of the Turkish ruler Sultan Salim.



But the OKAJ fair was far from a carnival. It provided a forum for the elite and the learned to discuss the social, religious, political, literary and other aspects of the Vedic culture then pervading Arabia. ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ asserts that the conclusion reached at those discussions were widely respected throughout Arabia. Mecca, therefore, followed the Varanasi tradition (of India) of providing a venue for important discussions among the learned while the masses congregated there for spiritual bliss. The principal shrines at both Varanasi in India and at Mecca in Arvasthan (Arabia) were Siva temples. Even to this day ancient Mahadev (Siva) emblems can be seen. It is the Shankara (Siva) stone that Muslim pilgrims reverently touch and kiss in the Kaaba.

Arabic tradition has lost trace of the founding of the Kaaba temple. The discovery of the Vikramaditya inscription affords a clue. King Vikramaditya is known for his great devotion to Lord Mahadev (Siva). At Ujjain (India), the capital of Vikramaditya, exists the famous shrine of Mahankal, i.e., of Lord Shankara (Siva) associated with Vikramaditya. Since according to the Vikramaditya inscription he spread the Vedic religion, who else but he could have founded the Kaaba temple in Mecca?
A few miles away from Mecca is a big signboard which bars the entry of any non-Muslim into the area. This is a reminder of the days when the Kaaba was stormed and captured solely for the newly established faith of Islam. The object in barring entry of non-Muslims was obviously to prevent its recapture.

www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/ archives/byauthor/aditichaturvedi/vpopia2.html


http://www.hknet.org.nz/VWH-Kaaba.html
 
Hi Sampuran,

There appears certain truth in what Prof Oak has written. There are many towns in present day Israel and palestine which bear names like Rama, sham and Shiva. There is a town called Beir Shiva in Isreal. In Hebrew Beir means Brute Beast. Shiva is the first, intense stage of mourning. Meaning seven in Hebrew, shiva is observed for seven days after the burial. We, in hinduism Shiva is the God of destruction and can be considered something like Brute Beast.

One can not be sure if Hindu traditions originated in present day India or else where. Might be it all originated in present day Isreal and then came to India. In Israel and other areas around, it was lost to other religions and in India it remains to this day..This might be a great area of research.

Rajendra
 
Lord Shivaji

rkumar said:
We, in hinduism Shiva is the God of destruction and can be considered something like Brute Beast.


Rajendra
Click to expand...

No offence intended


There is this impression in certain Hindu circles that Lord Shivaji is a destroyer, almost evil or demon like, living in graveyards, covered with ash, with a garland of skulls around his neck.

I too had this impression until one investigated this matter.

How this came to be is a bit of mystery, and is worth reflecting upon.


the other question was, why then do the Jats hold Lord Shivaji in so high a regard?


One finds, that Shiva or Siva is the oldest deity, one who goes back to the Rig Vedic times. Other deities are not to be found.

Shiva is represented in the Rig Veda by Agni or Fire, or as the pillar of Fire joining the earth to the sky, representing the original creative energy or supreme consciousness itself.

Even the crescent moon is an ancient Jat symbol.

At that time, Hinduism as a religion did not exist. The concept of the trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva did not exist

There is only Shiva

The trinity seems to be a compromise between the Vaishnav and Shaivite streams, which would come together and compromise to elect a third deity Brahma and create some kind of balance.

Among the Jats, Shiva has always had a rather special place, and vaishnav influence is not strong.

The Jat villages were not prone to temple creation or maintenance. A simple Shivalaya would be found.

This was discussed at some length on the Jathistory group. Search for Shiva, Siva in the archives.

See also http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/728



Best regards

Ravi Chaudhary
 
Ravi I agree with you. I put some fight to read Rgveda but gave up in middle, it talks a lot about Agni, Vayu, Sun and Indra(surprisingly) and but doesn't mention Trinity Gods... first and last verse are for Agni... fire has such a prominant place because its very crucial in rituals and hymns are mostly about rituals.... may be reference to Shiva might be indirect but certainly not Vishnu and Brahma... Actually Ganesh came much later... there was a tribe in present Maharashtra and they used to worship Elephant... to join them with with mainstream Hinduism Brahmin's changed some texts to add a character of personified elephants.... sorry I couldn't add much to original discussion....

vinod
 
rkumar said:
One can not be sure if Hindu traditions originated in present day India or else where. Might be it all originated in present day Isreal and then came to India. In Israel and other areas around, it was lost to other religions and in India it remains to this day..This might be a great area of research.
Rajendra
Click to expand...

RKji, Some people say there is common ancient myth between religions like Judism, Zoroastrinism and Hinduism about 'famous battle of ten kings' which according to some scholar was near Indus river... Even in old days there is possibility of communication between these places and legends and stories traveled from mouth to mouth and people had fascination of making myths... so in that context nothing concrete could be said whether Hinduism was born in Israel and before suggesting something like us more evidence should be provided, name of city Shiva not enuf... some people might have traveled to Israel during Buddist expansion, or some ideas might have flown to Israel in Arab-Indian trade and name of city isn't at all a evidence to build historical assumption... all these non-sense of name-matching speculation might also be propaganda, so internet source should be believed with disclaimer...
BTW, Shiva as destructor belief developed later.... In Shiv mahapuran Shiva is described The One, the Only One... the cosmic element... once upon a time there was one and only one... Shiva... everything came after that.... but again it depends which school of thought u belong to Shaivism or Vaishnavism...

Vinod
 
Rg Veda and Shiva

vinodks said:
I put some fight to read Rgveda but gave up in middle,

.. may be reference to Shiva might be indirect but certainly not Vishnu and Brahma.


vinod
Click to expand...



***********

One of our more learned members on the Jathistory group, Ishwa, had the post below to write, in response to one poster who insisted that Shiva could not be found in the Rg Veda

Exact verses are quoted!

To follow the rest of the discussion click on URL below and follow the thread

Ravi Chaudhary

****************


see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/777




In response to this quote of dr Abbas:

> Kindly provide the exact quotation, and verse number. If you do
find any
> such verse, you will be the first to have done so, and this will be
indeed
> a true revolution. I hence eagerly await any verse in the Vedas
containing
> the word Shiva.
>

See my answer in a previous post, which may have slipped your
attention:

RV X.124.2
adevaaddevah prachataah guhaa yanpashyamaano amrtatvamemi
SHIVAM yatsantamASHIVO jahaami svaatsakhyaadaraNiim naabhimemi.

(Agni speaks) from being no divinity I issue a divinity from the cave
at the solicitation (of the gods), and being manifest I attain
immortality;
when being inauspicious (A-Shiva) I abandon the sacrifice as it
becomes auspicious (Shiva), through my (old) friendship I come to the
binding touch-wood.

Now we have here the word Shiva in the RigVeda itself! This will
suffice in itself. One could conjecture that this is a late Hymn, but
still it is in the RigVeda.

But to please you more, see this even more ancient verse of RigVeda
III.58.6:
puraaNám ókaH sakhyáM SHIVAM vaaM yuvór naraa dráviNaM jahnaávyaam
púnaH kRNvaanaáH sakhyaá SHIVAANI mádhvaa madema sahá nuú samaanaáH

Ancient is your home, auspicious (SHIVAM) is your friendship: Heroes,
your wealth is with the house of Jahnu.
Forming again with you auspicious (SHIVAANI) friendship, let us
rejoice with draughts of honey together.

Check this out, only from the RigVeda:
8.26.23a: vaáyo yaahí shiva aá diváH
1.31.1b: deváH devaánaam abhavaH shiváH sákhaa
1.187.3b: shiváH shivaábhiH uutíbhiH
2.20.3b: sákhaa shiváH naraám astu paataá
4.11.6c: doSaá shiváH sahasaH suuno agne
5.1.8b: kaviprashastáH átithiH shiváH naH
5.5.9a: shiváH tvaSTar ihá aá gahi
5.24.1b: utá traataá shiváH bhava+ varuuthyàH
6.15.9d: ádha sma+ naH triváruuthaH shiváH bhava
6.45.17b: aapíH uutií shiváH sákhaa
7.9.3b: susaMsát mitráH átithiH shiváH naH
7.19.10c: téSaam indra vRtrahátye shiváH bhuuH
7.34.15b: sákhaayam kRdhvam shiváH naH astu
8.4.18c: asmaákam puuSan avitaá shiváH bhava
8.39.3e: shiváH duutáH vivásvataH
8.63.4c: shiváH arkásya hómani
8.93.3a: sá naH índraH shiváH sákhaa
10.25.9b: índrasya indo shiváH sákhaa
10.92.9c: yébhiH shiváH svávaan evayaávabhiH
10.165.2a: shiváH kapótaH iSitáH naH astu
10.3.4b: índhaanaaH agnéH sákhyuH shivásya
4.10.8a: shivaá naH sakhyaá
10.34.2b: shivaá sákhibhyaH utá máhyam aasiit
10.85.44b: shivaá pashúbhyaH sumánaaH suvárcaaH
7.50.4d: shivaáH deviíH ashipadaáH bhavantu
10.16.4c: yaáH te shivaáH tanvàH jaatavedaH
10.169.4c: shivaáH satiíH úpa naH goSThám aá akar
10.53.8d: shivaán vayám út tarema abhí vaájaan
1.108.5c: yaá vaam pratnaáni sakhyaá shivaáni
3.58.6c: púnar kRNvaanaáH sakhyaá shivaáni
7.22.9c: asmé te santu sakhyaá shivaáni
1.79.2c: shivaábhiH ná smáyamaanaabhiH aá agaat
1.187.3b: shiváH shivaábhiH uutíbhiH
8.20.24d: shivaábhiH asacadviSaH
10.8.6b: yátra+ niyúdbhiH sácase shivaábhiH
10.67.9a: tám vardháyantaH matíbhiH shivaábhiH
5.41.17d: átra+ shivaám tanvàH dhaasím asyaáH
10.95.13b: cakrám ! ná krandat aadhyè shivaáyai
5.12.5b: shivaásaH sántaH áshivaaH abhuuvan
7.18.7b: aá álinaasaH viSaaNínaH shivaásaH
6.75.10b: shivé naH dyaávaapRthivií anehásaa
7.73.4d: maá naH mardhiSTam aá gatam shivéna
1.143.8b: shivébhiH naH paayúbhiH paahi shagmaíH
3.1.9c: gúhaa cárantam sákhibhiH shivébhiH
3.1.19a: aá naH gahi sakhyébhiH shivébhiH
6.71.3b: shivébhiH adyá pári paahi naH gáyam
8.60.8d: shivébhiH paahi paayúbhiH


I hope this will suffice. I doubt that anybody is convinced that
Shiva is not RigVedic. One of the Vedic Tribes was even called
Shivas, one of the Anu Arya.
I don't think that I am the first one to have provided these
references of Shiva in the RigVeda. This is simple and basic/general
Vedic knowledge.

regards,
Ishwa
 
Agreed!!!!! I cursively rambled thru couple of dozen verses so am almost totally ignorant of Rgveda:-)))...

vinod

ravichaudhary said:
***********

I hope this will suffice. I doubt that anybody is convinced that
Shiva is not RigVedic. One of the Vedic Tribes was even called
Shivas, one of the Anu Arya.
I don't think that I am the first one to have provided these
references of Shiva in the RigVeda. This is simple and basic/general
Vedic knowledge.

regards,
Ishwa
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Bhai Vinod and Ravi, You are correct the word Shiva appears in many mantras in Vedas. But it is not the present day Shiva which many of Hindus worship (some call him the destroyer).

The meaning of word Shiva is --- sabka kalyan karne wala--..sabka kalyan karne wala is the almighty God only.

Please see the following Rig-Veda manta (1.164.46)
Indram mitram varunam agnim mahurtho divya sa suparnaha garutman
Ekam Sad Vipra Bahuda Vadanti agnim yamam matrishvanamahu
Meaning: There is only one god and sage call him with many name like Indra , mitra , varun, agni , vayu , yam etc.


The word Ganesh, Vishnu , saraswati all appears in the Vedas but they all apply to the one Almighty God only. People who do not have the correct knowledge of Veda think they are all different and that is the reason of so many God in Hindu religion. But it is their belief and Vedas does not say so.



These Rigveda mantas mentioned the word Krishna ....this is from the first mandal only...there are many more mantras in ohter mandals....
1.35.4 , 1.58.4 , 1.62.9 , 1.73.7 , 1.92.5 , 1.101.1 , 1.113.2 , 1.113.14 , 1.115.5 , 1.123.1 , 1.123.9 , 1.130.8
1.140.3 , 1.141.7 , 1.141.8 , 1.164.47
I am not writing the mantras here, But I am sure you can find them somewhere on the internet. http://www.sanskritweb.net/rigveda/


Krishna in the above Mantra is not the one which we all know ( Devki-nandan), because Vedas is not the history Whereas Shri krishna is . Krishna himself was a big philosopher of Vedas. Gita is a proof that Krishna was a yogi and he believed in the Vedas.
All I am trying to say is that a word may have many different meaning depending upon the context. Word in itself do not have any meaning, they make sense only when used in the context. Just because a word is mentioned in a mantra itself does not communicate any meaning, one should know the context in which the word is used.

you will be surprized that Rahu , ketu and Shani are not bad names. they are also the name of God according to the vedas. but you all know how the meaning of these words have changed over the time.

ye sara jhagda in puran walon kee vajaha se hua hai...koi Vishnu ko bada kahata hai, shivji and Bramha ko unka das batata hai ...toh koi Devi ko bada batate hain and in sabko devi ke das....kiski bat ko sachacha mane....:confused:

there are total 18 purans...devi puran , bhagwat puran( ye aajkal sabse popular hai) , shiv puran, surya puran, vayu puran, vishnu puran ...I do not remember them all....The interesting thing about these purans is that they all say they are based on the vedas but purans are not as per Vedas.

Purans are full of fictitious stories and there are many things which are hard to believe.
 
Bhai Khalkhandeji and Vinod Sangwanji,
Ram Ram. You still seem doubtful about the Indian history. Whether Shiva or Vedas originated in India or Israel should not be a matter of doubt for educated and aware Indians. Even the original protagonists of the Aryan Invasion theory , The Brits, have discarded it. See the link below :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/history/history5.shtml

In fact there was an Aryan migration around 2000 BC when the Indus valley civillisation got uprooted because of incessasant drought over 2-3 centuries. Thats when most of the Indian wisdom went to the Arabia, Irqaq, Turkey and Europe. Of course spread of Islam had a contribution to the migration and concentration of scientific temper from Arabia to Europe. Because of the cruelties and inhuman behaviour of mohammed's armies, the scholars ran northwards with their books and knowledge. Thats how the dark continent of Europe became enlightened. At the same time India was going in reverse.

Another interesting similarity is seen in the counting system of Scotland. Their counting is very similar to Hindi. One India born BBC correspondent noted that. Unfortunately I have not been able to trace her since then. May be somebody closeby should have a closer look.
 
sampuran said:
....Another interesting similarity is seen in the counting system of Scotland. Their counting is very similar to Hindi. One India born BBC correspondent noted that. Unfortunately I have not been able to trace her since then. May be somebody closeby should have a closer look.
Click to expand...

Following is the link you are referring to;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4328733.stm

Present day number system has certainly originated from India and went all over the world through traders. May be Roman traders took to to wales in UK.

RK^2
 
arun_shamli said:
Bhai Vinod and Ravi, You are correct the word Shiva appears in many mantras in Vedas. But it is not the present day Shiva which many of Hindus worship (some call him the destroyer).

The meaning of word Shiva is --- sabka kalyan karne wala--..sabka kalyan karne wala is the almighty God only.
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Click to expand...


When people do not pay attention to their heritage, they lose the knowledge base, and become prey to agendas of others.


I suspect the current Shivaji is very much the the same Shiva from the Rg Veda.

Shiva is auspicious, and is Agni, also auspicious. This is a continous thread from the Rig Ved times down to today.

In the human( murti) form that Shivaji is seen today,he is shown most often in a Yoga Asana pose, deep in meditation.

There are various symbols attached to him, which all have various meanings.

We also find the Natraj pose, mostly in South India, where he is dancing the dance of creation, which some( in their error, having bought into the trinity concept) see as the dance ofdestruction

The deep meditation pose is, however, the overriding marker.

Being in deep mediation is hardly suggestive of being A mindless Destroyer !!


Interestingly, there is no Avatar for Shivaji, though Vishnu has many.

The millions of our hindu familes, our ladies, etc do not see Shiva ever as a Destroyer, nor as he often projected, as the focus for Phallic worship

That is a mischievous Vaishnav position, which unfortunately, gets propogated in some circles, and acquires credence.

It also degrades the Hindu religion and philosophy, showing Hindus as worshiping a brutal destroyer.

Shiva represents the original creative force, repsenting both the male and female energies in one stream. that is what we find in the RV, and what we find in him today, unless we fall prey to those who would distort his image.


Shiva has been thorugh the eons, for the Jats the paramount diety.
 
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RKji, nice link.
Little bit about number system. Only two ancient civilizations practised current Arabic decimal system, Indian and Chinese, whereas Chinese used pictures(which makes it altogther useless in math) while Indians used abstrast symbols. Roman numeral system is very unscientific system(will explain later:-) because its not "place-value-based")... But its not decimality of Indian system which made is best mathematical system, it "place-value-based" quality... see, if you sum two no. 134+56=.... you add 6+4 and write 0 then take remaining 1 to (1)+3+5.... here 134= 1X100 + 3X10 + 4X1.... but for example in Roman CXXXIV... you can't to arithmatic like that... in our system you need just 10 symbols to represent infinite numbers... but in Roman you need "infinite" symbols to represent infinite numbers...

There are no "direct" proofs of its being used in Vedas but Sanskrit grammar implicitly assumed such number system(arguments use subtle linguistic techniques which went our my head)... Harappan people used weight with ratios like .1, .5 1, 10, ..... etc. Aryabhatta's astonomical data use very very weird numeral system(33 sanskrit consonants used to represent 1,2,3....25,30,40,50,...100) and all infinite no. can be reprsented by 33 symbols... but it can be proved mathematically that this system is basically a decimal system and its of course "place value based"... so its first direct proof of decimal system(400AD)

In 900AD al-Khrarizmi(a Arabic schlar) translated Hindu texts to Arabic which were later translated into Latin by Adelard of Bath.. so our no. system went into Europe in 1200CE, 300years before Renaissance and independent (supposedly) discovery of same system by Liebniz(1500CE).... Thats why its called Arabic... BTW word "algorithm" came from al-Khwarizmi...

Ravi, yeah u r right about Shiva... there are lot of things which didn't remain same as in Vedas.... e.g. In Rgveda Asuras are holy people(Devas), later on they became demons.... In Zorastrinism word Asura means "holy people" and word "deva" means demons... this might be because there was trade between Harappan civilization and Persia and after some fight once race might have called other by the name they refer for demons(got it?)...

anyway..

vinod
 
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