The Demonic Side of RSS, the only side I know

[atul.jhajhria]

It seems that ur saying that RSS and BJP are totally against Jats than how come we have so many Jat leaders in BJP i rekon more than congress.

Its a legacy of past!

RSS's Black Past!

Ask any Jat from Rajasthan!

I dont know abt the past but in present i have never seen any such things from RSS which shows that they are against Jats. Even in Haryana they have SHAKHAs running in almost all districts and even jats are attending these.

As i said above, it was a thing of Past!

I dont have anything related to that murder but one point which i can raise here is that KYa kabhee kisi congressi ne yah kisi aur party ke member ne kabhee kisi Jat ka Murder nahin kiya. I think i have pointed towards my opinion.

It was not just about occasional murder!

It was their policy of cornering Jats in jobs, business, and socially too!!

Which failed and they started saying Jat are Hindues!!

Ask Jats of Rajasthan about this!!

Earlier they never included us in Hinduism even though we were Hindues!!

 

[hoodavishal]

Full Form Of R.ss

FULL FORM OF RSS IS ......Security Services for Riches
BJP IS........Boycott Jat Party or
brahmin jagao party or
baniya jagao patty.

 

[kharub]

Reasons for Supporting BJP

I support the BJP for the underlining reaosns:

1. Because they opposed Soina Gandhi holding high office in India .. which she does anyways ...... becasue the likes of Bhupender Singh Hooda .. lick her bottoms .... Being a proud Jat and an Indian it disgusts me
(though i am proud to see a Jat CM)

2. The Congresse's policy of minority appeasement .... minorities need to treated with respect and have full freedom .. but they should not be the policy dictators... we are being held hostages by monorities in our country ....

3. Raising the issue of Bangladeshi Immigrants in the country ... changing the demographics of North East India .. especially Bengal and Assam ...

Because I am anti-congress ,,,, as they are the Puppets of Nehru - Gandhi Family .... Gandhi was toothless and Nehru was an opportunist and selfish (just to be brief) and the same traits have filtered through generations ......

 

[rkumar]

I support the BJP for the underlining reaosns:

1. Because they opposed Soina Gandhi holding high office in India .. which she does anyways ...... becasue the likes of Bhupender Singh Hooda .. lick her bottoms .... Being a proud Jat and an Indian it disgusts me
(though i am proud to see a Jat CM)

2. The Congresse's policy of minority appeasement .... minorities need to treated with respect and have full freedom .. but they should not be the policy dictators... we are being held hostages by monorities in our country ....

3. Raising the issue of Bangladeshi Immigrants in the country ... changing the demographics of North East India .. especially Bengal and Assam ...

Because I am anti-congress ,,,, as they are the Puppets of Nehru - Gandhi Family .... Gandhi was toothless and Nehru was an opportunist and selfish (just to be brief) and the same traits have filtered through generations ......

Don't you think BJP leaders are any less opportunists? Have you ever seen any other leader in Indian history changing stands like what Advani has done? Does BJP of today have any ideology which makes it a nationaist force? Gandhi Nehru might have been toothless, but what about BJP leaders ? Have they ever shown any tooth ? Jaswant Singh escorted terrorists all the way to Kandhar..Has any other party done same thing in Indian history? Can BJP name one leader who contributed even single cent worth contribution in freedom strugle? Atal Bihari Vajpayee went to Pakistan holding his tail between his legs where as Man Mohan Singh rejected all such invitations till date.. BJP is a party without any ideology and can share bed with anyone starting from Mayawati to Mulayam Singh... Badal to Chautala.. anyone under the sun if they are likely to form government...

Hooda family has been in congress for four four generations without even a single incident of party change by any family member. This is called ideology. 99% other political leaders in country have been through so many political parties like a cat carrying her kittens to all sorts of places.

RK^2

 

[raj2rif]

All Are Same

Don't you think BJP leaders are any less opportunists? Have you ever seen any other leader in Indian history changing stands like what Advani has done? Does BJP of today have any ideology which makes it a nationaist force? Gandhi Nehru might have been toothless, but what about BJP leaders ? Have they ever shown any tooth ? Jaswant Singh escorted terrorists all the way to Kandhar..Has any other party done same thing in Indian history? Can BJP name one leader who contributed even single cent worth contribution in freedom strugle? Atal Bihari Vajpayee went to Pakistan holding his tail between his legs where as Man Mohan Singh rejected all such invitations till date.. BJP is a party without any ideology and can share bed with anyone starting from Mayawati to Mulayam Singh... Badal to Chautala.. anyone under the sun if they are likely to form government...

Hooda family has been in congress for four four generations without even a single incident of party change by any family member. This is called ideology. 99% other political leaders in country have been through so many political parties like a cat carrying her kittens to all sorts of places.

RK^2

All are same. While I am neither the supporter of BJP nor that of Congress, I am compelled to put my two cents on this topic.

1. As far as sharing the bed with other political parties are concerned. Congress has done it with both, Mayawati as well as Mulayam Singh. They are now doing it with Laloo Yadav's RJD as well. So, let us not give the impression that it is only the BJP that has done it.

2. We had been criticizing on this very forum the "dynastic" rule. Having generations in the same political party does not mean that the future generations can't go wrong or say right (if the prior generations did go wrong) Nehru family has now fifth generation in the politics. Does that mean whatever the future generations of this family do will be right. Or say some one who is the first generation politician will always do some thing wrong.
Let us concentrate on issues rather than individuals.
If Hooda, government has done some thing exceptional, let us bring it out and let the public know about their achievement. If they have done some thing wrong let us bring that out as well. Our personal likings and dislikings towards the political parties or the political figures do not contribute to the development of the community or the nation.
If we really want to serve the community and the nation, then let us get above the personal likings, dislikings and relationships while addressing the important issues.

 

[rkumar]

All are same. While I am neither the supporter of BJP nor that of Congress, I am compelled to put my two cents on this topic.

1. As far as sharing the bed with other political parties are concerned. Congress has done it with both, Mayawati as well as Mulayam Singh. They are now doing it with Laloo Yadav's RJD as well. So, let us not give the impression that it is only the BJP that has done it.

2. We had been criticizing on this very forum the "dynastic" rule. Having generations in the same political party does not mean that the future generations can't go wrong or say right (if the prior generations did go wrong) Nehru family has now fifth generation in the politics. Does that mean whatever the future generations of this family do will be right. Or say some one who is the first generation politician will always do some thing wrong.
Let us concentrate on issues rather than individuals.
If Hooda, government has done some thing exceptional, let us bring it out and let the public know about their achievement. If they have done some thing wrong let us bring that out as well. Our personal likings and dislikings towards the political parties or the political figures do not contribute to the development of the community or the nation.
If we really want to serve the community and the nation, then let us get above the personal likings, dislikings and relationships while addressing the important issues.

They might be all same but still there are differences Tavathia Sahab. I am certainly not a neutral person. I have very strong views based upon my convictions. I am willing to change my views if someone comes with really good arguments and logics and not otherwise.

RK^2

 

[raj2rif]

They might be all same but still there are differences Tavathia Sahab. I am certainly not a neutral person. I have very strong views based upon my convictions. I am willing to change my views if someone comes with really good arguments and logics and not otherwise.

RK^2

Dear Dr. Sahab,

There is nothing wrong in having strong views and convictions. Actually we all do have some convictions. Being aligned to some thing does not mean not being fair. The statements like BJP sharing bed with Mulayam Singh and Mayawati (while not mentioning the same thing for congress) as per my understanding is being biased and not being fair. One can also argue it to be distortion of facts. And if we indulge in this kind of biased views then we can't talk about idealism. I found similar biased arguments on the post about the women being compared to donkeys in Rajasthan.
Dr. Sahab, we need absolutely unbiased views to analyze the issues in a fair and just manner. But if we do twist the facts just to bring a particular party or individual up and another party or individual down then why do we have to criticize Advani, Laloo, Mulayam or any one else for we will be doing the same thing.

 

[ratananmol]

Dear Col. Saheb:
The link i have posted is written by Steven Levitt a chicago economist identified by Time magazine as one of the top 100 people who influence our lives (some of his theories have been mentioned elsewhere on this forum by Prof. Birbal Singh); i dont think he is necessarily a BJP basher or has any keen interest in indian politics. The story chosen by him is so outrageous that it did not escape his attention nor mine...let us get our facts there are people who use religion, gender and all other narrow definitions to create rift among human beings which does not make others dearer to me (maybe in a relative sense)...dont know
Truly yours...

 

[positivelook]

Very well said Tevathia Sir. Ur answer is very balanced.

Abhimanyu Phougat

 

[spdeshwal]

Dear members,

Obviously this thread was initiated by Dr. Birbal ji in Respose to my thread
" The Humane side of RSS, the Only side i know". The reason best known to him , he did not post his views under that thread but chose to start a fresh thread. Thinking that he didn't feel fit to interact with me on the pretext that i am a RSS man which he hates the most, i chose to stay away from this thread. But same time i wanted to reply to some unwanted remarks by him and later on posted my version on the different thread which obviosly edited by the Administrator.

Anyways my motivation to start that thread came from my interactions with that organisation on a number of occasions. Otherwise, neither i am a fanatic Hindu nor a BJP worker. In fact only time i voted for a BJP condidate was for Swami Indervesh. I am a aryasamaji to the core of my heart who have never been to a hindu temple in 46 years of my life. My village Ladhaut with 3000 families, one of the oldest village in the area, is believed to be 'khera' of jats of Deshwal/Deswal Gotra, has no temple till date of any Hindu deity. I was greatly inspired by Swami Omanand ji in my younger days. I had the privilege of spending some memorable moments whenever he visited us in our village home. So my faith in Aryasamaj and its beliefs is complete. Therefore, I never subscribe to temple or any other religious agenda of BJP or its alies.

I am an emotional person and my first interaction with RSS activist happened to be at the time, when i was a young sailor of 18 years of age.I have witnessed RSS Volunteres doing great service to the humanity. I never seriously thought RSS as a training ground for BJP but a largest social organisation of the world. Majority of the members of that organisation may be devout Hindus and i find nothing wrong with that. I am still not convinced that RSS men were involved in atrocities as stated by Dr. Birbal ji and others though without any proof or substance.

I am amazed to read claims by some the members about treatment of RSS with jats. I believe, majority of our jats members supporting that view including Dr. Birbal ji come from regions of Rajasthan where jats are in majority. "Jis tarah ki bilbihat hai , meri samajh se pare hae". At list i can't imagine this kind of treatment in haryana by any group of people including in the areas where jats are in minority.

Rajenderji, I do not support your views here but under the old thread "Jats and BJP". I liked your views under that thread and of Sh. RK Sehrawat ji's as
well. http://www.jatland/forums/showthreads.php?t=5150 Col.Tewathia ji i fully agree with you and Bhai Abhimanyu as well.
Every Organisation has its bad apples and RSS and BJP are no Exception.

Rajenderji, now that you going back to India and i believe most of the times you should be in and around Samli. I hope , you should be spending your energies for the cause of rural maases through your hospital and other projects. In my opinion you would need the support of people of all the backround including people from different political beliefs.
Also i know, the other subject close to your heart is "Harit Pradesh". So, it is obvious that you would need like minded people, may be believing in different political ideologies.My Heartfelt and best wishes to you and others symphathiser to this cause!!


Sateypal

 

[rkumar]

......

Rajenderji, I do not support your views here but under the old thread "Jats and BJP". I liked your views under that thread and of Sh. RK Sehrawat ji's as
well. http://www.jatland/forums/showthreads.php?t=5150 Col.Tewathia ji i fully agree with you and Bhai Abhimanyu as well.
Every Organisation has its bad apples and RSS and BJP are no Exception.

Rajenderji, now that you going back to India and i believe most of the times you should be in and around Samli. I hope , you should be spending your energies for the cause of rural maases through your hospital and other projects. In my opinion you would need the support of people of all the backround including people from different political beliefs.
Also i know, the other subject close to your heart is "Harit Pradesh". So, it is obvious that you would need like minded people, may be believing in different political ideologies.My Heartfelt and best wishes to you and others symphathiser to this cause!!


Sateypal

Deshwal Sahab,

All top BJP leaders like Advani ji are products of RSS and therefore reflect RSS thinking to a great extent. Personally I have no exposure to RSS as they are not so active in my area. For me Advani and his alikes are the true face of RSS. May be I am politically motivated and therefore take political face of an organisation as its representation. I will put few counter questions on RSS;

1. How come RSS supports only BJP and no other political party?
2. If RSS supports only BJP then why BJP should not be taken as political mask of RSS and vice verse?
3. If BJP is the political mask of RSS, why shouldn't we form our image through the people like Advani who can swing 180 degree on issues?

Rightly or wrongly my image of RSS, BJP is of Banya Brahaman party who support each other. Even Vishva Hindu Prisad and Bajrang Dals are nothing but extensions of the same gangs. No wonder one finds Baniyas like Sanghal becoming thekedars of Hindu religion.

Might be that you are influenced more by their social activities and I by their political. That might be the reason of our different perceptions. I accept that. Also I fully agree that every organisation has good and bad apples. However, there is no other organisation in India where two wings are so closely knit like RSS and BJP.

Yes Deshwal Sahab I am moving back to India on 27th July 2006 and would be involved in rural health and education in shamli area. No doubt, I will need support of every class and community. However, my focus will be on farmers. I must accept that political beliefs are never permanent and they keep changing with time and circumstances. People representing the organisation matter more than anything as its they who form our beliefs. I therefore remain always open to political beliefs and will support anyone who thinks for rural masses and India. At this time I just need good wishes of friends like you and the blessings of almighty. May God show me the right path and maintain my convictions to move along that.

Regards
Rajendra

 

[spdeshwal]

Dear Rajender ji,

I don’t disagree what you have written on RSS/ BJP relationship. My contention was about the social activities and what they have been doing on the face of natural and other disasters and also completely disagree on what some members say that RSS’s has done so much harm to jats. In Haryana or the matter of fact in western UP, Rajasthan as well, even the Bramin/ Baniya Combine are not in a position to harm jats. The truth is that BJP supporters in Haryana are Baniya/ Punjabis and not Bramins. Bramins are always congress supporters. Now that jats know their strength, this kind of accusation has no merit at all.

My observation were that of a neutral person with no political bias at all. Thinking on same lines I believe that Congress’s/ Communist’s/ Samajwadi’s “Pseudo Secularism” is doing greater harm than BJP’s”Hindutwa”. You can see the pathetic condition in UP and Bihar.

I believe , when we are politically biased our relative perception also changes. Forgive me if you feel that I am simply implicating you just to prove my point but I can see a clear shift in your thought process.
Here, I can visualize the process of ‘transition’ from a political thinker to a political activist. Now , you seem to be taking sides. I am happy about that . We need people like you to enter active politics to clean the mess. Once again my best wishes are with you.


Yours truly,

Sateypal

 

[ramksehrawat]

Hi all,

Sorry for being late!

In Indian poltics if you keep judging right or wrong, you are bound to miss the bus and your position will be akin to what late poet Ram Sehrawat i.e your truly had described in a poem 30 years ago. A few lines I still remember :

Gulabon ka husan dekha kahan,
main kanto se darta raha.

Sagar se moti lane ki poorjor chahat thi magar,
doobne ke dar se bas ret par jalta raha.

Thee tamanna gahari karwan ke sang chaloon
kadam dagmagane ke bhay se dooriyan takta raha.

Jinke sang kadam bhare wo sab taraf chhaye huye
main ladkhadane ke dar se, na itt raha na utt rah

Intihan ki mere mahboob bhi dulhan ban kar chal diye
mein ijhare ishaq bas khood se hi karta raha.

Therefore, to political aspirants my advice will be to jump into the train, don't look at the compartment as present day politics is like a train and political parties like compartments. To voters, bargain hard with people whom you vote and kick them hard if they fail to keep promises. Good or bad are too relative terms. Everything good is bad to so called bad and vice versa. Don't live in your past. Judgements based on historical perspective may prove to be the biggest folly. "Kal ke nawab aaj rikshaw chala rahen hain, aur thare dangran ka gobbar thaniya destini-maker bane bathe hain". Today's we are in IT age, everything changes so fast.

No political or religious organisation is , be it RSS, BJP, Congress or Communists, against any particular community including jats. The so called "anti" is nothing but hype. "Angoor khatte hain". Otherwise RSS is not a bad organisation at all. The so called RSS people are all lving luxirious life and are very influential. They are destiny makers and even RSS baiters, including Congress, acknowledge their might. A large chunk of population support them and such a large number of people cannot be all fools. If we start judging everything historically, England, Portugal and France should be our enemies and Pakistan and Bangladesh our brothers. The fact is that we didn't have enough politically inclined jats and a few that we had went with Congress or regional parties of Ch. Chhotu Ram in the earlier times and Ch. Charan Singh in the later times. Let me be blunt to say that we jats have hardly been bothered by national issues. Rather we have concentrated more on local issues and this was the reason we remained aloof . Baniya's and Brahamins took advantage by joining these parties as there were no influential jats to oppose them in those organisations.

By calling a national level organisation like RSS, BJP or Congress 'anti' we are not doing any good to ourselves especially in the present times when no political outfit is left with any ideology. If you are politically inclined and want to make a career in politics, join any one of them if you get a chance to forge ahead. Devoid yourself of sentimental ideologies, be ruthless and make your way to top. If you can be a Bansilal or a Hooda in Congress go there, if you can be a Sahab Singh in BJP it is very secular, if you can be a Hegdewar and do good to your community by joining RSS, go ahead and make yourself physically active by joining their shakha. If you can afford to be a politician, never think of ideologies, at least in present times. Had there been any ideology, Rane wouldn't be Dy. CM of Maharashtra, Sanjay Nirupam would have been unemployed, he was shrewed and is a prominent Congressi now. Mangalam, a close friend of Rajiv, died a BJP Minister. If we go strictly by history, Rajmohan Gandhi should have been in Congress !! If you think BJP is anti-jats and Congress is pro-jats, I have said umpteen times and I repeat again, why Ch. Chootu Ram had to leave it. Weren't Ch. Charan Singh and Devi Lal Congressies for a long time. Ch. Bansi Lal was virtually dumped and Natwar Singh, apart from a diehard Congressi was very close to family. What happened ? Moreover, the present congress itself is not the congress of yore itself. It has become an outfit of a family who use people and dump them. Can someone guarantee that our present CM will be in Congress 5 years from now ? Politics is not a game of ideologies but opportunity. Be in the right place at the right time and you are a politician. Success is not being in the ruling party alone, even opposition leaders are successful. They too have carved their own niche give enought room to their aspirations.

If you are not a political aspirant, "bachche palo yar',. Bhagwan, charitra aur politics pe bhi kabhi consensus hua haii".

Chautala Sahib has been called names, corrupt et al. May be. But he is a shrewed politician to me. Those who don't serve oneself, don't serve anyone. "Shahid wahi hote hain jo apne parivar ka pet palne ke liye fauji bante hain". The proper channel of 'desh prem' is : self, family, relations, village, tehsil, district, state and then country. Let me know exceptions, if any.

Ram Ram

 

[shamshermalik]

They might be all same but still there are differences Tavathia Sahab. I am certainly not a neutral person. I have very strong views based upon my convictions. I am willing to change my views if someone comes with really good arguments and logics and not otherwise.

RK^2

RK Sir..Saying that BJP has no freedom fighters or any such history then there is a reason for that. During freedom struggle the moto was national unity..and the present congress party in no way is an image of that congress party which was there before we got freedom from British rule.
Do you think that it would have been better during freedom struggle if there were many parties other than congress to divide our nation on ideaology??? Was not it going to divide our nation and help the rulers???

At that time all the leaders united under one name CONGRESS and I donot think this word is from any Indian language.

It would have been far better if this Congress party was only limited upto freedom. The Nehru and others should have shown respect to this party name and start a different party from there as upto the time of freedom congress party was representing whole of the India except Jinnah group.

It's wrong to ask for votes saying that the present Congress is an image of the Congress that got India freedom. This is to keep the illitrate and unaware Indian population into dark and emotionally blackmail them.

If this Congress is so great then why Janta Party or BJP came into power..only because there are faults in congress. Janta Party and BJP originated because there were few people who were not agreeing with congress policy. A party which almost originated 30 years after freedom..how can that party have a history in freedom struggle.

If we look getting above our personal likings then no party is too good or too bad. Both are doing vote politics which is bad and they are also doing some good things as well.

But if we go on community based or region based parties as this thread was started...then for Haryana congress has not done much...for Bigar Lalu has not done much ..for West Bengal Communists have not much....yet all this parties have been in power or rather ruled rather than served these states for more than any other party.

No personal likings but Chautala in his last term has done a lot in Haryana..yet lost the election. If you will compare the works done by Chautala in last term you will find he did lot more than the previous many govts together. These days water from Rivers in Punjab is going to Pakistan but this Congress party who is there in rule at all the three positions Center, Haryana and Punjab is keeping mum on the SYL issue. WHY???

They are not even following the Suprem Courts wishes and order with any moral obligation. In south Haryana and Rajasthan there is not much water for irrigation. Chautala did a lot for SYL issue but there was unwilingness by Congress govt at Center which was clearly evident.


In the last at present all parties are corrupt and vote hungry, do all kind of politics to get vote and there is no exception to it.