Tipu Sultan

[agodara]

The reports of the Christian missionaries cannot be taken seriously in toto till the facts mentioned in them are not evaluated with the help of other sources.

For example, after meeting Akbar at Fatehpur-Sikari, a missionary from Portugal had reported in his journal that Akbar is soon going to convert to Christianity. But he never did !

Rajpal sir
francous ripaud was not a missionary he was a french soldier
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Ripaud
http://www.francoisgautier.com/tippu-sultan-francois-ripaud-hindus/
about which missionary you are talking about?

 

[prashantacmet]

The reports of the Christian missionaries cannot be taken seriously in toto till the facts mentioned in them are not evaluated with the help of other sources.

For example, after meeting Akbar at Fatehpur-Sikari, a missionary from Portugal had reported in his journal that Akbar is soon going to convert to Christianity. But he never did !

Dear friend,

please bring out the primary sources which prove that tipu did not butcher hindus at the name of religion

 

[agodara]

Rajpal sir
can yoy provide us just one link which shows tipu sultan was kind to hindus.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Rajpal sir
can yoy provide us just one link which shows tipu sultan was kind to hindus.

Friend,

18th century Indian States which rose on the dismemberment and disintegration of the Mughal Empire whether headed by princes/rulers belonging to Hinduism or Islam, all were, by and large tolerant towards their people in religious affairs as they could not bear their internal resistance in the course of uncertain political fortunes of their newly founded States/ Kingdoms. And Tipu Sultan, it seems was no exception to this rule as he had to carry out his mission of strengthening his internal and external affairs with the help and cooperation of the majority population of Hindus under him.

I do not claim that I have studied every record on Tipu Sultan's religious policy, so the better informed on the topic are welcome to dig out archives and present assessment of his religious views and religious policy of his state.

Nonetheless know that he had taken the services of large number of the Hindus in both Civil and Military affairs of the state and that too recruited them in larger numbers than the Muslims. This shows he did not carried mass conversion of Hindus and that to using force. He had Christians also in his army. This could not have been the case if he was a 'religious bigot and fanatic.'

Yes, there are chances that he might have resorted to offer option of choosing death or conversion to Islam to the rebels against his authority as was the practice adopted by the Islamic rulers throughout the world.

If somebody shares contemporary records to show/prove that he carried out mass conversion as state policy, this would be an addition to our knowledge of eighteenth century History of India !

Thanks and regards

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Rajpal sir
francous ripaud was not a missionary he was a french soldier
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Ripaud
http://www.francoisgautier.com/tippu-sultan-francois-ripaud-hindus/
about which missionary you are talking about?

Friend,

Before making a critical analysis, jumping to conclusions on the basis of a minor entry is a very dangerous tendency in historical research. There may be contradictions in the narrative with which we are dealing.

After reading the narrative given in the links I am of the firm opinion, Rebels against the authority had been indiscriminately murdered by the Army of Tipu as quoted by the French soldier.

Also read the sentence about Tipu :But Ripaud casts his doubts aside, and puts up for Tippu’s benefit a demonstration of the new egalitarian French political ideals. A French paper was found in Tipu's Palace in 1799, entitled 'Proceedings of a Jacobin Club formed at Seringapatam by the French Soldiers in the Corps commanded by Francois Ripaud. The Paper listed by name 59 Frenchmen in the pay of 'Citizen Tippoo'; it described the gathering of a Primary Assembly on 5th May 1797, to elect a President, Francois Ripaud, and other officers. The 'Rights of Man' were proclaimed, and a small delegation was formally received by Tippu.

First, who knows all those killed were Brahmins and not other Hindus or pagans till we have a list of the names and their religious affiliation before us. To illustrate this point further, could you explain the following entry in the link no. 2 provided by you, why only 2000 Brahmin families were chosen to be murdered and rest 5000 Braahmins were allowed to live :

Then, there were the atrocities in Kozhikode, also seen by Ripaud, who wrote: "To show his ardent devotion and steadfast faith in Muhammaddan religion, Tipu Sultan found Kozhikode to be the most suitable place. Kozhikode was then a centre of Brahmins and had over 7000 Brahmin families living there. Over 2000 Brahmin families perished as a result of Tipu Sultan"s Islamic cruelties. He did not spare even women and children”


Therefore, it is requested to all those who are interested to study and know the religious policy of any period of history must not jump to hasty, uncritically analysed conclusions please.

Thanks and best wishes,

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Friends,

Please note that since I have not deeply studied Tipu Sultan's religious policy, I leave it to the ingenuity of the learned readers to make their own assessment on the issue after making critical assessment of his work and times.

Perhaps, the above posts written may be helpful to those who want to come to unbiased assessment of the man and his religious policy. Please read every available and accessible original source critically, analyse and assess and then make a hypothesis, test it with more sources and then present your thesis. That would be historical truth till refuted by some more authenticated data comes out as a part of research !

Wish good luck to everyone.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Rajpal sir
can yoy provide us just one link which shows tipu sultan was kind to hindus.

Friend,

On my own I have nothing to say on this topic as I have not done research on him but now I have found some interesting links which I would like to share with you. For example on such link says:

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD="width: 100%, colspan: 3, align: left"]Tipu inherited the secular policy of Haider who was very tolerant in religious affairs. Tipu maintained the same spirit, although he was more religious than Haider.<small> There are about thirty letters in Kannada of Tipu to Swamiji of Sringeri temple, which were found in 1916 by R.Narasimhachar, Director of Archaeology in Mysore</small>. Normally all letters of Tipu to others begin with his own name at the top, but these letters mention the name of the Swamiji at the top, with all his titles and Tipu's name is at the bottom without any title. These letters throw a flood of light on his religious policy and clearly establish the secular character of his rule.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 100%, bgcolor: #800000, colspan: 3, align: left"]<small>"The Quran requires you to say to people of scripture: We believe in that which has been revealed into us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is one and unto him we surrender. We hold this God-given law dear to our heart, based as it is on human dignity; reason and brotherhood of man. With reverence we have also read the Vedas of the Hindus. They proclaim their faith in universal unity and express the belief that God is one although He bears many names."
-- Tipu Sultan.</small>[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


For further information please visit, read, assess and form your own view :

http://tipusultan.net/biog2.htm


For broader understanding of the topic log :

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Tippu_Sultan

And also try to open pages at :http://www.indianetzone.com/42/religious_administration_tipu_sultan.htm

If you want to take up full research on Tipu Sultan : The Links are available here :

https://www.google.co.in/search?q=R....37216j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

I have nothing more to add to this topic of the thread.

Thanks and wish best reading

 

[prashantacmet]

Friend,

Before making a critical analysis, jumping to conclusions on the basis of a minor entry is a very dangerous tendency in historical research. There may be contradictions in the narrative with which we are dealing.

After reading the narrative given in the links I am of the firm opinion, Rebels against the authority had been indiscriminately murdered by the Army of Tipu as quoted by the French soldier.

Also read the sentence about Tipu :But Ripaud casts his doubts aside, and puts up for Tippu’s benefit a demonstration of the new egalitarian French political ideals. A French paper was found in Tipu's Palace in 1799, entitled 'Proceedings of a Jacobin Club formed at Seringapatam by the French Soldiers in the Corps commanded by Francois Ripaud. The Paper listed by name 59 Frenchmen in the pay of 'Citizen Tippoo'; it described the gathering of a Primary Assembly on 5th May 1797, to elect a President, Francois Ripaud, and other officers. The 'Rights of Man' were proclaimed, and a small delegation was formally received by Tippu.

First, who knows all those killed were Brahmins and not other Hindus or pagans till we have a list of the names and their religious affiliation before us. To illustrate this point further, could you explain the following entry in the link no. 2 provided by you, why only 2000 Brahmin families were chosen to be murdered and rest 5000 Braahmins were allowed to live :

Then, there were the atrocities in Kozhikode, also seen by Ripaud, who wrote: "To show his ardent devotion and steadfast faith in Muhammaddan religion, Tipu Sultan found Kozhikode to be the most suitable place. Kozhikode was then a centre of Brahmins and had over 7000 Brahmin families living there. Over 2000 Brahmin families perished as a result of Tipu Sultan"s Islamic cruelties. He did not spare even women and children”


Therefore, it is requested to all those who are interested to study and know the religious policy of any period of history must not jump to hasty, uncritically analysed conclusions please.

Thanks and best wishes,

Ok rajpal ji. I will take a sigh of relief and will maintain patience until you come on a conclusion on Tipu sultan's religious tolerance. How much time it can take?

below is a quote from "A Voyage to the East Indies" by Fra Barthoelomeo, a renowned Portuguese traveller and historian, who was present in Tipu's war zone in early 1790:

"First a corps of 30,000 barbarians who butchered everybody on the way ... followed by the field gun unit under the French commander, M. Lally. Tipu was riding on an elephant behind which another army of 30,000 soldiers followed. Most of the men and women were hanged in Calicut, first mothers were hanged with their children tied to necks of mothers. That barbarian Tipu Sultan tied the naked Christian and Hindus to the legs of elephants and made the elephants to move around till the bodies of the helpless victims were torn to pieces. Temples and churches were ordered to be burned down, desecrated, and destroyed. ... Those Christians who refused to be honoured with Islam were ordered to be killed by hanging immediately. These atrocities were told to me by the victims of Tipu Sultan who escaped from the clutches of his army and reached Varapphuza, which is the centre of Carmichael Christian Mission. I myself helped many victims to cross the Varapphuza river by boats."

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Ok rajpal ji. I will take a sigh of relief and will maintain patience until you come on a conclusion on Tipu sultan's religious tolerance. How much time it can take?

......................"

Thanks Friend.

The narrative of 'these atrocities were told' to the author ' by the victims of Tipu Sultan' and the Historian /author does not claim to be an eye witness. Now to analyse the narrative and their testimony one has to find out support or negation to it by raising several questions like: were the informers real victims or pretenders. If real how they managed to escape ''the 30,000 barbarians who butchered everybody on the way'' !! What was their purpose/motive to reach to the historian, who sent them there and so on.

This is the methodology of research in history.

But kindly remember I am neither supporting the narrative nor rejecting it because I have not studied the problem in-depth, so the issue remains inclusive and open for further investigation.

As stated earlier, I have nothing more to add what I have stated in the above quoted posts. To form a comprehensive assessment of the religious policy of Tipu Sultan, there is vastly scattered sources of information. But due to my pre-occupation in other engagements, it is not possible for me to carry out full length research, so excuse me please.

You are free to investigate deeper and share your views after reasonably deep investigations, if you like, please.

Thanks and regards,

 

[agodara]

Tipu sultan serial

even peoples filed pitions against telecast of serial tipu sultan.
Petitions were filed in the*Supreme Court of India*against the telecast of this drama. The petitioners, Ravi Varma, et al., argued that it was not based on the real life and deeds of*Tipu Sultan.[10]*After hearing the arguments, the Supreme Court gave a judgment that the drama could be telecast but that a notice has to be displayed along with each episode stating:*"No claim is made for the accuracy or authenticity of any episode being depicted in the serial. This serial is a fiction and has nothing to do either with the life or rule of Tipu Sultan. The serial is a dramatised presentation of Bhagwan Gidwani's novel."[11]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Tipu_Sultan
http://voiceofdharma.com/books/tipu/ch11.htm
read your self and decide

 

[pankajpotaliya]

now this is hilarious.
the way you are questioning the authenticity of the historian's work is irresponsible......as if you are making statement under frustration.its normal for a historians to quote the victims and and we don't expect a historian to himself go in a war torn or aggressive place to eyewitness everything himself .
the most part of the hitler's concentration camps stories are narrated by the victims......and they are the most valuable asset....it would be foolish to question that how a few victim survived the massive nazi force and ran away.
by the way have you checked the authenticity of the letters by tipu to swamiji. do you know the intention of tipu behind those letters those may be to misguide the historians.
each and every post you mention that you have not studied the problem in depth and yet you make mockery of the historians quote by someone
it may be very much possible that you are right and tipu was hindu tolerant but the way you toss away others view in pure arrogance and unrespectfull manner keeps away some of the serious debaters away from posting.
hope you will consider a through introspection and act accordingly as there is always a possibility to improve
thanks and regards,

Thanks Friend.

The narrative of 'these atrocities were told' to the author ' by the victims of Tipu Sultan' and the Historian /author does not claim to be an eye witness. Now to analyse the narrative and their testimony one has to find out support or negation to it by raising several questions like: were the informers real victims or pretenders. If real how they managed to escape ''the 30,000 barbarians who butchered everybody on the way'' !! What was their purpose/motive to reach to the historian, who sent them there and so on.

This is the methodology of research in history.

But kindly remember I am neither supporting the narrative nor rejecting it because I have not studied the problem in-depth, so the issue remains inclusive and open for further investigation.

As stated earlier, I have nothing more to add what I have stated in the above quoted posts. To form a comprehensive assessment of the religious policy of Tipu Sultan, there is vastly scattered sources of information. But due to my pre-occupation in other engagements, it is not possible for me to carry out full length research, so excuse me please.

You are free to investigate deeper and share your views after reasonably deep investigations, if you like, please.

Thanks and regards,

 

[pankajpotaliya]

Secularisation of Tippu's image is a dangerous game.Trying to portray him as a 'great national hero'is a shameful attempt.
He was a master Jihadi who killed thousands of innocent Hindus.
He was a barbarian.
On jan19,1790 Tippu sent a letter to Budruz Zuman Khan,in which he wrote:"Dont you know I have achieved a great victory recently in Malabar and over four lakh Hindus were converted to Islam? Iam determined to march against that cursed 'Raman nair'(Rama varma Rajah of Travancore).Since Iam overjoyed at the prospect of converting him and his subject to Islam"
In a letter sent to Adbul Kadir (1788) he wrote: "Over 12000 Hindus were honoured with Islam.There were many Namboodiris amoung them.This achievement should be widly publicised amoung the Hindus.There the local Hindus should be brought before you and then converted to Islam.No Namboodiri should be spared."
In the letter sent to Syed Abdul Dulai on jan 18,1790 he wrote:" With the grace of prophet mohammed and Allah,all most all Hindus in Calicut are converted to Islam.Only a few are still not converted on the boarders of Cochin state,Iam determined to convert them also very soon.I consider this as a JIHAD to achieve that object."
And some Hindus are trying to portray him as a secular hero !!
Shameful......

 

[vishu1708]

The reports of the Christian missionaries cannot be taken seriously in toto till the facts mentioned in them are not evaluated with the help of other sources.

For example, after meeting Akbar at Fatehpur-Sikari, a missionary from Portugal had reported in his journal that Akbar is soon going to convert to Christianity. But he never did !

Rethink it. Christian missionaries are one of the biggest enemies of hindus. They would gladly invent stories to victimise christians. But why is he mentioning the suffering of hindus, and that too, the clergy. Clearly the situation must have been really bad for the hindus, otherwise why would a christian missionary to victamise a 'heathe'/'devil worshipping' hindu, who he considers his arch enemy?

 

[vishu1708]

Secularisation of Tippu's image is a dangerous game.Trying to portray him as a 'great national hero'is a shameful attempt.
He was a master Jihadi who killed thousands of innocent Hindus.
He was a barbarian.
On jan19,1790 Tippu sent a letter to Budruz Zuman Khan,in which he wrote:"Dont you know I have achieved a great victory recently in Malabar and over four lakh Hindus were converted to Islam? Iam determined to march against that cursed 'Raman nair'(Rama varma Rajah of Travancore).Since Iam overjoyed at the prospect of converting him and his subject to Islam"
In a letter sent to Adbul Kadir (1788) he wrote: "Over 12000 Hindus were honoured with Islam.There were many Namboodiris amoung them.This achievement should be widly publicised amoung the Hindus.There the local Hindus should be brought before you and then converted to Islam.No Namboodiri should be spared."
In the letter sent to Syed Abdul Dulai on jan 18,1790 he wrote:" With the grace of prophet mohammed and Allah,all most all Hindus in Calicut are converted to Islam.Only a few are still not converted on the boarders of Cochin state,Iam determined to convert them also very soon.I consider this as a JIHAD to achieve that object."
And some Hindus are trying to portray him as a secular hero !!
Shameful......

Wow! Thanks for the facts!
You know, I don't hate Tipu. He was merely following his religion. Quran, Al Taubah verse 5: After the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolators wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleagure them and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, merciful.'
I don't hate tipu sultan and muslims, its the commies, muslim appologists and lefties I hate.
When muslims shout ' our ancisters butchered yours like cattle and raped their womenfolk', these commie historians shout, 'dont listen to them, arival of Islam was the best thing to India. They made taj Mahal and brought rose plant. They are the best. They loved hindus.'
When some muslims boast 'how we killed hindus' and site evidance in persian chronicals, these people again shout 'those are false claims and muslims and hindus lived like friends before brits.'
When muslims themselves make threats 'to convert India to Islam' or 'butcher all hindus', these appologists come out again and start preaching about 'Evil hindutva', 'RSS agenda' and 'Modi the terrorist' and how innocent muslims are killed by 'evil hindus' and how we should make peace with these people who wanna kill us.
When Muslims say they are gonna kill us and we are their enemy, these people say ' No, he is lying, muslims are our brothers.'

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Wow! Thanks for the facts!
You know, I don't hate Tipu. He was merely following his religion. Quran, Al Taubah verse 5: After the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolators wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleagure them and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, merciful.'
I don't hate tipu sultan and muslims, its the commies, muslim appologists and lefties I hate.
When muslims shout ' our ancisters butchered yours like cattle and raped their womenfolk', these commie historians shout, 'dont listen to them, arival of Islam was the best thing to India. They made taj Mahal and brought rose plant. They are the best. They loved hindus.'
When some muslims boast 'how we killed hindus' and site evidance in persian chronicals, these people again shout 'those are false claims and muslims and hindus lived like friends before brits.'
When muslims themselves make threats 'to convert India to Islam' or 'butcher all hindus', these appologists come out again and start preaching about 'Evil hindutva', 'RSS agenda' and 'Modi the terrorist' and how innocent muslims are killed by 'evil hindus' and how we should make peace with these people who wanna kill us.
When Muslims say they are gonna kill us and we are their enemy, these people say ' No, he is lying, muslims are our brothers.'

Tipu Sultan is an historical figure and you have every right to discuss, appraise and comment on him and his actions. But do not prove right the actions of a group of politicians in the guise of undoing the historic wrongs, if any, of the past.

Be merciful and spare the Jatland site for spreading hatredness among people.

[Refer to your this sentence --I don't hate tipu sultan and muslims, its the commies, muslim appologists and lefties I hate. ] --

 

[vishu1708]

sorry?

Tipu Sultan is an historical figure and you have every right to discuss, appraise and comment on him and his actions. But do not prove right the actions of a group of politicians in the guise of undoing the historic wrongs, if any, of the past.

Be merciful and spare the Jatland site for spreading hatredness among people.

[Refer to your this sentence --I don't hate tipu sultan and muslims, its the commies, muslim appologists and lefties I hate. ] --

Is that in referance with perhaps RSS(guess).
I am not doing that. I am simply against teachings which show brutal, barbarian Invaders/Tyrants like Tipu Sultan etc. as 'Patroits', 'Paragon of Virtue', 'Reformer' etc.
I am also against people who keep on repeating muslims are seculars, all the while muslims themselves shout that they are anti secularists.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

History is two-edged sword, so use it carefully to prove your point please.

What Tipu -good or bad - did cannot be undone now.

Neither his acts of omissions or commissions can be used to justify one's own extremely prejudiced views.