Tracing Modern Indian Jat Clans in Ancient Historical Sources

lrburdak said:
Rajpalji This content is already on Jatland. See
Chittor#Antiquity_of_Chittorgarh
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Yes some of it is there without addition of critical comments especially the issue of take over of Chitor by Bapa Rawal, .

Moreover in my preceding two posts, some additional information on continuance of Tak rule in Asirgarh in next two centuries and mention of coin of Mori king have come to light which point to need of re-examination of the whole issue.

Hence put before the participants for review it again.
 
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It is generally believed that Maurya dynasty came to an end with the death of Magadha Ruler Dashratha Maurya's death at the hands of his Brahmin C-in-C, Pushayamitra Sunga.

But this is not true history as we find a large number of literary and epigraphy evidences which show that they continued to rule in various parts of the country even as late as ninth century AD. Though the relation of these later day Mauraya kings cannot be established with the dynasty founded by Chandragupta Maurya at Patliputra yet it is certain that these later day Mauryas were also destined to shape the polity of the day in no uncertain measure as the history of Rule of Mauryas at Chitor reveals.
 
drssrana2003 said:
It would be ideal for further moves on the issue if a reference is given of the Indian literary source making mention of the Dahiya/Dahae clan name.
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Here is one from Greek ambassador in India and another from Tod as well as Indian author BS Dahiya:

Megasthenes has described about this clan in Indica as Dimuri. He writes, Then next to these towards the Indus come, in an order which is easy to follow The Amatae (Antal), Bolingae (Balyan), Gallitalutae (Gahlot), Dimuri (Dahiya), Megari (Maukhari), Ordabae (Buria), Mese (Matsya). [SUP][15][/SUP]
According to Todd's Rajasthan (based upon the writings of Justin and Herodotus), thousands of years before Christ, the Dahiya tribe lived on the bank of the River Oxus(Amu Darya).

B S Dahiya[SUP][16][/SUP] writes: “The Dahi were spread over the whole country (Persia) from the Caspian sea to the Persian Gulf and the Tigris. They are mentioned in the scriptures, [SUP][17][/SUP]among the Samarian Colonists, being classed with the men of Archoe Erech (Orkan) of Babylonia of Susa and of Elam.“ According to Dr. Kephart [SUP][18][/SUP] the Caspian Sea derives its name from the group of Dahae (Dahiya Jats) known as Caspi. [SUP][19][/SUP] [SUP][20][/SUP]
Strabo says that Arsaces, a king of the Dahi, conquered Parthia.[SUP][21][/SUP] In 224 A.D., the Sassanids superseded, the Arscid Empire of Iran founded by him. Here the Orkan are the same as Varkan or Virks. "The Armenians still call the Georgians by the name of Virk, which is pronounced with a guttural termination".[SUP][22][/SUP] [SUP][23][/SUP]
SED defines a people named Dadhika as a princely race(p.475). They are also stated to be the same as Daha, a name (of a people) which is taken as Varia Lectio, for Vaideha in Vayu Purana.[SUP][24][/SUP] The sea of the Dahae (Dadhi Sagar) is also mentioned as Dadhiimanḍoda. a sea (Caspian) around Sakadvipa. In second centurv B.C., a Hindu settlement was established in Armenia under the patronage of king Valarasaces of the Arsacid (Dahiya) dynasty. The temples of Lord Krishna built by these Hindus were destroyed by St. Gregory in fourth century A.D.[SUP][25][/SUP][SUP][26][/SUP]

Comments please !
 
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drssrana2003 said:
It would be ideal for further moves on the issue if a reference is given of the Indian literary source making mention of the Dahiya/Dahae clan name.
Click to expand...

What ' ideal ' !

We are supposed to discuss all the sources available and accessible under the sun to arrive at some tangible conclusion.
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
Here is one from Greek ambassador in India and another from Tod as well as Indian author BS Dahiya:

Megasthenes has described about this clan in Indica as Dimuri. He writes, Then next to these towards the Indus come, in an order which is easy to follow The Amatae (Antal), Bolingae (Balyan), Gallitalutae (Gahlot), Dimuri (Dahiya), Megari (Maukhari), Ordabae (Buria), Mese (Matsya). [SUP][15][/SUP]
According to Todd's Rajasthan (based upon the writings of Justin and Herodotus), thousands of years before Christ, the Dahiya tribe lived on the bank of the River Oxus(Amu Darya).

B S Dahiya[SUP][16][/SUP] writes: “The Dahi were spread over the whole country (Persia) from the Caspian sea to the Persian Gulf and the Tigris. They are mentioned in the scriptures, [SUP][17][/SUP]among the Samarian Colonists, being classed with the men of Archoe Erech (Orkan) of Babylonia of Susa and of Elam.“ According to Dr. Kephart [SUP][18][/SUP] the Caspian Sea derives its name from the group of Dahae (Dahiya Jats) known as Caspi. [SUP][19][/SUP] [SUP][20][/SUP]
Strabo says that Arsaces, a king of the Dahi, conquered Parthia.[SUP][21][/SUP] In 224 A.D., the Sassanids superseded, the Arscid Empire of Iran founded by him. Here the Orkan are the same as Varkan or Virks. "The Armenians still call the Georgians by the name of Virk, which is pronounced with a guttural termination".[SUP][22][/SUP] [SUP][23][/SUP]
SED defines a people named Dadhika as a princely race(p.475). They are also stated to be the same as Daha, a name (of a people) which is taken as Varia Lectio, for Vaideha in Vayu Purana.[SUP][24][/SUP] The sea of the Dahae (Dadhi Sagar) is also mentioned as Dadhiimanḍoda. a sea (Caspian) around Sakadvipa. In second centurv B.C., a Hindu settlement was established in Armenia under the patronage of king Valarasaces of the Arsacid (Dahiya) dynasty. The temples of Lord Krishna built by these Hindus were destroyed by St. Gregory in fourth century A.D.[SUP][25][/SUP][SUP][26][/SUP]

Comments please !
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Comments of the participants on Dahae/Dahiya clan of Jats are still awaited.
 
drssrana2003 said:
It really needs a brave-heart to offer comments after getting a sharp snub !
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But it is known that come what it may be, the Jat never stops to call spade a spade !

If something has hurt you, forgive, forget and share your views

as a brave heart Jat which undoubtedly you are Dr. Sahib !
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
Comments of the participants on Dahae/Dahiya clan of Jats are still awaited.
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Largest group of Jats , well described by HW Bellew as sons of Afrasiyab were in fact Dahae but I find no evidence to connect them to dadhichi rishi as hinted by some historians.
 
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हमें गांधीजी की इस बात से सहमत होना चाहिए-

"हो सकता है कि मैं आपके विचारों से सहमत नही हूँ पर आपके विचारों का स्वागत करता हूँ।"

हमें भी यहाँ सबके विचारों का स्वागत करना चाहिए।
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
What ' ideal ' !

We are supposed to discuss all the sources available and accessible under the sun to arrive at some tangible conclusion.
Click to expand...

DrRajpalSingh said:
Comments of the participants on Dahae/Dahiya clan of Jats are still awaited.
Click to expand...

Dahae are in India as Dhah/Dahiya now, and Dahae are not known to have disappear into thin air all of a sudden, and seem to be found nowhere else today other than India, just look at the Indo-Scythian amd Parthian Empires' maps.

Something Indirectly relevant below.

On your site there is a Jatt Got "Khabra", the origin of this family name is most likely Eber(Heber), great great grandson of Noah, Hebrew(hebrews), or the Khabur River/the Little Khabur River which are the tributaries of the Euphrates River and Tigris Rivers respectively.

Khabra Got has J1- Z1853* Y-Dna lineage, it is a sub-branch of P58 branch which is considered to have its origin in the Northern Mesopotamia, the area is also known as Khabur triangle and many ancient settlements are found in this area. Now, it is not known if Khabur River is named after Eber or the Eber is named after Khabur River, but this much is clear that Hebrew is based on Eber.

In the Ancient times, when there was no such city as Kabul, there was a city named Kabura on the Silk Road, next to the present day Kabul, and then there is the Khyber Pass, which pretty well sums up the migration route of ancestors of Khabra Jatts, from Khabur River > Tarim Basin > Kabura>khyber Pass>India.

Khabra ancestors perhaps joined the Guti(Gutians) from Zagros Mountains who basically were R1a1a and ended up in Tarim Basin where Guti were known to the Chinese as YueZie.

There is a distant genetic relative of Khabra Jatts who is of Oghuz Tribe and his family is known as Yetis Family. It appears that he belongs to a Jatt family whose ancestors were separated from YueZie and were assimilated into Oghuz Tribe in north west of China in ancient times.

In my opinion any connection based on any historical or archaeological etc evidence is useless unless the relationship can be proven to have Y-Dna genetic connection, it is now time that all Jatt clans are thoroughly tested, genetically, and any Paternal lineage claims are genetically substantiated.

If people had refrained from changing their clan names, then there wasn't any need today to look for their origin, Khabra Got may be proven to be one of the oldest surviving family name one day, just for that very reason.
 
paulgill said:
Dahae are in India as Dhah/Dahiya now, and Dahae are not known to have disappear into thin air all of a sudden, and seem to be found nowhere else today other than India, just look at the Indo-Scythian amd Parthian Empires' maps.

Something Indirectly relevant below.

On your site there is a Jatt Got "Khabra", the origin of this family name is most likely Eber(Heber), great great grandson of Noah, Hebrew(hebrews), or the Khabur River/the Little Khabur River which are the tributaries of the Euphrates River and Tigris Rivers respectively.

Khabra Got has J1- Z1853* Y-Dna lineage, it is a sub-branch of P58 branch which is considered to have its origin in the Northern Mesopotamia, the area is also known as Khabur triangle and many ancient settlements are found in this area. Now, it is not known if Khabur River is named after Eber or the Eber is named after Khabur River, but this much is clear that Hebrew is based on Eber.

In the Ancient times, when there was no such city as Kabul, there was a city named Kabura on the Silk Road, next to the present day Kabul, and then there is the Khyber Pass, which pretty well sums up the migration route of ancestors of Khabra Jatts, from Khabur River > Tarim Basin > Kabura>khyber Pass>India.

Khabra ancestors perhaps joined the Guti(Gutians) from Zagros Mountains who basically were R1a1a and ended up in Tarim Basin where Guti were known to the Chinese as YueZie.

There is a distant genetic relative of Khabra Jatts who is of Oghuz Tribe and his family is known as Yetis Family. It appears that he belongs to a Jatt family whose ancestors were separated from YueZie and were assimilated into Oghuz Tribe in north west of China in ancient times.

In my opinion any connection based on any historical or archaeological etc evidence is useless unless the relationship can be proven to have Y-Dna genetic connection, it is now time that all Jatt clans are thoroughly tested, genetically, and any Paternal lineage claims are genetically substantiated.

If people had refrained from changing their clan names, then there wasn't any need today to look for their origin, Khabra Got may be proven to be one of the oldest surviving family name one day, just for that very reason.
Click to expand...

Very informative, thought provoking and interesting post for which you deserve sincere thanks.
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
What ' ideal ' !

We are supposed to discuss all the sources available and accessible under the sun to arrive at some tangible conclusion.
Click to expand...

The way YueZie is written in Chinese is with two symbols, one means Moon and the other means Clan, YueZie = Moon Clan. May be this relates to ChanderaVanshi in some way.
 
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