what about intercaste marriage?

[rajeshrathee]

Thank you Ritu ji, Rupi and Vicky bhai.

1 dost or 2 bhaiyon ne ha main ha kah di. Meri taraf se matter end. No further discussion on the topic.

Dear Kharub don't take anything on yourself, I have written whatever came to my mind at that particular time. I respect your views and we need youngsters like you on Jatland.

 

[kharub]

Kharub bhai ji

Ram Ram

Mere bhai, aap konse jamane ki baatein kar rahe ho. Chalo let me try to answer you stuff.

To be a human is first thing to me and to be a Jat is a secondary thing.

Undoubtedly we all belong to the human race ..... so the only decision that has to be made is ho important is your Jat identity to you ..... for me it is the foremost thing ......

First tell me, Are you married or not? If you are not then you don’t know anything about love and marriage and have no right to talk of something you don’t have any knowledge?

Rathee Bhai Sahab, I am too young to be married ... and one does not have to be married to know what love is .... now i do not want to go in the specifics of love .. its too big a topic in itself

You said that love is an imported thing from the west. Dear brother, Love is the backbone or prerequisite of a successful marriage and if it’s already there, what is the harm. Yes but you have to make sure that its love and not an infatuation. And if it’s a thing of past then are you and me came in this world due to “Lust and not Love”.

Bhai Sahab I never said love is an imported feeling ...... the ever rising Individualism definately is

Regarding Panchayati elections as true democratic, participate in one and see it yourself. If you think that Panchayat was justified in that one case then how come that couple get relief from the High court. Now don’t say that there has to be only Jats as the judges to deal with such cases.

The panchayat was right in that decision too .... from a human and compassionate point of view the shoudl have let them be ... but justice and rules need to be enforced and thus panchayati decision though harsh was justified. Just as I will not feel sorry for a pedophile to be hanged

Kharub bhai, we are not living in a primitive society where the decisions made by “Panchayat” which effects the personal life of a Jat individual goes unnoticed. They are subjected to evaluation by the society (not the Jat society, alone) and if all of us keep a mindset as you are portraying then time is not far ‘WHEN WE WILL BE LABELLED LIKE A PRIMITIVE TRIBE’.

Following customs and traditions is not primitive .... it is called being true to yourself and your origins ....... So what do you propose we do away with our customs and traditions and embrace the western individualism .. where every body lives for themselves and kids have to pay rent to their owm parents and otherwise have to find a new place to live - this is what this individualism will bring us . You are proposing we have the best of everything Jat tarditions when they suit us and individualism when they dont work our way.

A society has its code and rules for survival like any organisation and with out those rules and guidelines everything will just fall apart ....... You might label my views whatever you want ... "Primitive" , "Barbaric", "Stone-Age" .... but I truly believe in them and I am not asking anybody else to embrace them ...

Another answer I want from you what is your decision on the so called ‘honor killings’ of young lovers as reported in various parts of UP, some time ago. I think you will also justify that saying that

Jats dont honour kill ....... we outcast people ..... outcasting people is fair and justified ....

Regarding your example of driving and alchohal I think that decision regarding marrying and spending your life is entirely different from driving a car.

I was not comparing drink driving & marriage. I was comparing breaking away with social customs and violating a law ....... both must have consequences if order has to maintained ....... otherwise society will turn into a do what you want jungle

Jahan par apko koi cheej explain nahi karni aaye wahan par Westernisation or modernization ka thappa laga do Simple hai naa, Yah kisi bhi society ka example chep do jaisi ki hum logo ki to koi individuality hi nahi hai, Bhai ji aisi bhi socity hai jo polygamy ko support karti hai , inka matlab yeh nahi ki unka example lekar kal ko hum bhi shuru ho jaye.


I did not say we must do this because the western society does it ... I said we shoudl not do what is against our traditions. Social customs and rules have been the very heart of Jat society and this is why we have the panchayati system

Ab aa jao “Jat thing” par. Aap ne aajtak Jato ke upliftment ke liye kya groundwork kiya hai batane ka kasht karenge kya? Priti mam or bahut se log jo apke hisab se Jat nahi hai ya jinke bachche aadhe Jat hai who bahut kuch kar rahe hai Ground work par, aap apna bataye?

Dont misquote me Bhai Sahab, I catagorically said that Priti Ji is as Jat as me or anybody else on .. please read my post again. I have no authority or right to question any other Jat for their Jatness.

I personally have done nothing for my community as yet, but my family has contributed a lot. My mother has dedicated all her professional life to Jat educational Institutions and organising Jat (haryanvi) Cultural events, she is presently the Principal of a noted Jat Girls College. My father has also dedicated a major pat of his life to Jat educational institutions and my grandfather is a noted social-worker and an office holder of Jat Sabha Hissar.

 

[kharub]

Thank you Ritu ji, Rupi and Vicky bhai.

1 dost or 2 bhaiyon ne ha main ha kah di. Meri taraf se matter end. No further discussion on the topic.

Dear Kharub don't take anything on yourself, I have written whatever came to my mind at that particular time. I respect your views and we need youngsters like you on Jatland.

Bhai Sahab ..... we are just having a discussion .... however primitive I maybe .. I know to respect other peoples opinion .. so no offence taken

 

[rajeshrathee]

Bhai Sahab ..... we are just having a discussion .... .. I know to respect other peoples opinion .. so no offence taken

That should be the spirit Kharub bhai, I like it

 

[kharub]

Dear all
If a Jat girl marries outside caste then does her so called 'Jat blood" is changed overnite, NO. She was a Jat and she remains a Jat. Its like once DND Sir explained on "humour" section that anything which contained a rural language(Jaatu bhasha) is a Jat Joke.

Jat blood never changes ........ a Jat is born a Jat and dies one (please read my post again) .... any not everything Haryanvi is Jat ... haryanvi is also Chamar and pandit and Dhanak and doom ...

What Priti is doing to Jat community even after marrying into a non jat family is an eye opener for everyone (Jan Jagriti Stuff). Hats off to you Priti and your family, including your husband.

I am sure Priti's Husband is a very accomplished fellow and an exceptional human being and that why she got married to him and they are doing great work ....... nobody ever questioned her Jat identity or her husbands capability .... you need to go through my posts again

And to the so called "Naye-2 Musalman" of Jatlands, who are doing nothing then reciting "allah-2", its very easy to point out a finger at oneself but you forget that by doing it three of your own fingers are pointing at youself.

I did not point finger at anybody .. I just stated my views

You have no right to decide about Jatism, and don't personalise your thoughts and don't think that you are the only one of saviour of Jats.

I never claimed that I did ....... if you dont agree with my views you dont have to ... you dont have to go on making false claims ...
Now do I even have a right of opinion or I cannot have an opinion too .. just because you do not agree with me

 

[kharub]

There are other definitions of ethnicity too....including 'affiliation', 'porous boundaries', 'set of values' and 'traditions'...

In our context these other definitions do not fit ...

Also, what is not mentioned in your definitions is whether the ancestry or race counts only as paternal...

Because of the family and social structure in place yes it does .. if we were Jews the mothers heritage would count .. but in our case thats the way it is .. i am not saying it is the ideal way .. but that is the way

Also, tell me why a person with a jat father (and mother from other community) be counted as a 'full-jat' and only a 'half-jat' in case of a jat mother? ...I know i'm asking an obvious question...but its something to think about...

Because 1. He will have a Jat family name .... this is how people get identified in the society

2. The family structure in our society is as such that he/she will be brought up and will have more contact with the fathers side of the family and thus he/she will have more knowledge of Jat culture & values ...

3. This is the way our society works fathers heritage count more ........ I cannot do anything about it

I have a question...if jats are an ethnic group....what is their caste? and if somebody marries outside the community, is it inter-ethnic or inter-caste?

This caste system is a Hindu system, invention of the Brahmins ... Jats have existed long before the cast system and outside this system as well ... In Iran, Balouchistan, Sindh etc ......... Dont confuse Jats as a caste ..... its a race , an ethnic group ......... read Jat history section for further detailed info

Also, the question of conflict....i find it similar to the discussion on whether you are no longer indian if you become a citizen of any other country....even the governments are recognizing dual citizenship ....

Citizenship can be changed ethicity not, Afro-Americans are African race but American Citizens, their race is black , same for Indians ........ so do not mix being Indian with being Jat. Just as Will Smith will always belong to the Black race whether he is American or British or Angolan ..... similarly a Jat will always be a Jat , this identity is neither optional nor changable ......... it come with the blood ........ One is born a Jat and one dies one

 

[rajeshrathee]

Dear all
If a Jat girl marries outside caste then does her so called 'Jat blood" is changed overnite, NO. She was a Jat and she remains a Jat. Its like once DND Sir explained on "humour" section that anything which contained a rural language(Jaatu bhasha) is a Jat Joke.

Jat blood never changes ........ a Jat is born a Jat and dies one (please read my post again) .... any not everything Haryanvi is Jat ... haryanvi is also Chamar and pandit and Dhanak and doom ...

I said Jaatu bhasha, where I said Haryanavi?

What Priti is doing to Jat community even after marrying into a non jat family is an eye opener for everyone (Jan Jagriti Stuff). Hats off to you Priti and your family, including your husband.

I am sure Priti's Humband is a very accomplished fellow and an exceptional human being and that whay she got married to him and they are doing great work ....... nobody ever questioned her Jat identity or her husbands capability .... you need to go through my posts again

That was for those who were telling her that she should not be on Jatland

And to the so called "Naye-2 Musalman" of Jatlands, who are doing nothing then reciting "allah-2", its very easy to point out a finger at oneself but you forget that by doing it three of your own fingers are pointing at youself.

I did not point finger at anybody .. I just stated my views

You have no right to decide about Jatism, and don't personalise your thoughts and don't think that you are the only one of saviour of Jats.

I never claimed that I did ....... if you dont agree with my views you dont have to ... you dont have to go on making false claims ...
Now do I even have a right of opinion or I cannot have an opinion too .. just because you do not agree with me

same thing from my side

 

[kharub]

Just a few more things about the contribution of my family to the community - My grand father has personally organised the wedding of three father-less Jat girls ...... and more than 20 other such weddings for father-less or poor Jat girls along with his Jat Sabha Hissar co-members in the last twenty or so years that he has been retired and actively dedicated to social service ..........

He currently has two orphan Jat boys under his care for further education .. he bears all their educational and other expenses ....

His Name is Ch. H.R Kadyan ......... you can validate the facts for yourself ...

 

[kharub]

What is Jaatu Bhasa ........ i did not know any such language existed (it might be my ignorance)

I though it was Haryanvi (a dialect of Hindi spoken in Most of Hayana), Brij, rajasthani or Punjabi that most Jats speak ......... I did not know that anything like a Jaatu Bhasha existed ..........

How is the Jaatu Bhasa different for a Sunars, Lohars, Dooms or Chamars Haryanvi ??

 

[rajeshrathee]

What is Jaatu Bhasa ........ i did not know any such language existed (it might be my ignorance)

I though it was Haryanvi (a dialect of Hindi spoken in Most of Hayana), Brij, rajasthani or Punjabi that most Jats speak ......... I did not know that anything like a Jaatu Bhasha existed ..........

How is the Jaatu Bhasa different for a Sunars, Lohars, Dooms or Chamars Haryanvi ??

A language use by a Jat is Jaatu bhasha.

 

[priti]

Hello People

Thanks for showing your support Rajesh...we are on the same page...

Vishvajeet, i appreciate your enthusiasm and ideology for the jat community...as you say one is born and jat and will die a jat...I just have a slight problem with you mixing up things...marrying by one's own choice does not mean that person is individualistic...it does not indicate that they do not have family values and have discarded all traditions. It does not mean westernization!! Marrying by choice is not a result of globalization too!!

You must have the best of interests of jat community at heart, what is not healthy in your arguments is the 'labeling' you do with your arguments of people who have married outside with support of many other members here...

Hopefully, the 'half jat' people would be raised to be mature enough to make their own decisions regarding 'what they would like to be'...and hopefully the community would have 'a half glass full' approach and be inclusive enough not to lose its extended network .

It would be good to remember that traditions are made by humans and for humans, humans are not made for traditions....

It would be really appreciated not to have a discussion focused on any one individual...

Best wishes to all
Priti

 

[rajeshrathee]

Just a few more things about the contribution of my family to the community - My grand father has personally organised the wedding of three father-less Jat girls ...... and more than 20 other such weddings for father-less or poor Jat girls along with his Jat Sabha Hissar co-members in the last twenty or so years that he has been retired and actively dedicated to social service ..........

He currently has two orphan Jat boys under his care for further education .. he bears all their educational and other expenses ....

His Name is Ch. H.R Kadyan ......... you can validate the facts for yourself ...

That is so nice of your elders. Salute to them.

Now if everyone start filling up details of deed done by their elders all the space on the Jatland will be utilised. But Sir the question was raise about you?

 

[kharub]

That is so nice of your elders. Salute to them.

Now if everyone start filling up details of deed done by their elders all the space on the Jatland will be utilised. But Sir the question was raise about you?

I just stated those things because you were questioning my commitment in real to the community ....... unless previously I have never boasted of any such thing and i have been a member of this site for roughly 5 years

Presently my elders are able and contributing greatly to the community and I am still going through my education and setting my feet firm on the ground in terms of my career ....... so I have no personal contribution to list .... but I think my family's contribution does give me a right to claim some good from it

 

[ritu]

kharub please bura mat maniyo .as i can see from ur views that u r going to marry a jatni only.tera bahay t jab hoga hoga.par man apni os bebe p ebe t daya aan lag gayi h.i am just kidding.
any ways good to see ur spirits and love for the community.

I just stated those things because you were questioning my commitment in real to the community ....... unless previously I have never boasted of any such thing and i have been a member of this site for roughly 5 years

Presently my elders are able and contributing greatly to the community and I am still going through my education and setting my feet firm on the ground in terms of my career ....... so I have no personal contribution to list .... but I think my family's contribution does give me a right to claim some good from it

 

[dev]

Dont get me wrong Vishwajeet, sorry for being sarcastic. But its really frustrating to read so many misgivings by people when they themselves haven't experienced it. When they claim that love marriages are less successful and such people change after getting married, they are selfish, living nightmares (ok, i'm exaggerating a little) and so on and so forth...where are the statistics to prove that this is the case, in my opinion, such cases get highlighted because they are love marriages in the first place (dialogues like 'aur karlo punjaban te byah'). And to be honest people who are strong enough to marry out of their own choice are also likely to stronger not to stay in bad marriages.

I have an intercaste marriage and I come from a very conventional jat family...and believe me, it has been nothing but a pleasure for me and for my parents and none of my relatives (except the people who crib over falling rain) have changed their attitudes because they understand that its my choice and they care for me as much as I do for them. I admit you have go that extra mile to get everyone on side but that much you can do for having a life partner you want...

I'm also not saying that love marriages are the best option, i agree it can definitely give you a lot of headache is not properly thought out. As I said before in this thread, if you have total conviction in one person then go ahead otherwise leave it to your parents.

My point is that having an inclusive approach does not mean you have to change entirely and that you do not remain a jat (which i understood from your last post). All my family, relatives (both sides), friends know me as a proud jat woman and having a partner from another community does not change that, I'm the ambassador of my community and I do not want to let it down by having a exclusionary approach. It is a part of my identity, attitude and language and it'll be an inheritance to our children.

This is just to give people the other side of the story...marriage is a very personal decision.

As for the macro level problem of sex ratio...this is an outcome of bad things being done in the past and present...there will be consequences...and tying the victim (the female) again in the shackles (as you suggested in a post that the guys can marry anybody of superior race they want but jat girls should only marry in the community because many of them have been killed in infancy thus less in number) to provide a solution to a crime that has been committed against her...its like punishing her all over again for being less in number...lol...now thats not fair...is it?

Well Said
Only a real jatni can have such a courage to say the truth

Bravo
If at all it matters i wanna say that i am into an intercaste marriage and have been living with my parents for the past ten years. My kids are very comfortable when my parents speak to them in pure haryanvi and i have never heard my sife saying"BETA PLEASE TALK IN ENGLISH ", or "Haryanvi mein baat mat karo".
These are the sentences i have often heard in many many houses where the arranged marriages between the so called educated jats and jatnis have been solemnised.

I would reqest all the jatlanders not to take it otherwise but most of the so called messiahs of the Jat society are the ones whose kids or grandkids are ones who leave apart speaking are not able to understand our language.

so guys please ,it can be a personal matter if somebody marries out of caste and we should not be judgemantal about their loyalty towards their parents or the community.

with advnce apoligies if i have offended somebody.
dev.

 

[balrajsejwal]

respected members ,ram ram
the thread is of about "what about intercast marriage" some jaat brother"s and sisters are in favour of intercast marriage and some are not and they have their own reasons behind that.no issue,but there are some people who belives in groupism and starts thinking that they are the godfather and when they see some one has diff point of view ,they starts crying which sees in their post when they starts raising questions which are not related to the topic etc or intensionally makes fun of the other"s post.
am against of intercast marriage and it"s only my point of view and i have my own reasons for that, as for me am jaat ,am belongs to a jamindaar family anything against jaat and my country matters me a lot.

 

[navingulia]

Give me a break

Great Priti, for calling a stick a stick a spade a spade

Let me put a few words without the intention to hurt, just as i feel it

1. I am as proud of being a Jat as can be but i will say "Dont be only a Jat, grow up, grow beyond that, evolve"

2. I cant be a Jat at the cost of hurting the sentiments of members of other communities. They are as much my brothers as you all are.

3. If being a Jat means being disrespectful to other communities or anyone, please dont call me a Jat.

4. Let us make Jat community be known for something better than biceps.

5. Culture and traditions? If we continued to believe in stone age traditions we would still be living in stone age. We, as humans, have to evolve.

Let JAT have a bigger meaning.

 

[dev]

well said Gulia Saab
Jat does not mean that we should be disrespectful to other communities.
Jat is the person with Lion Heart and who is loved and loves every human being(only if one is HUMAN enough)
Baki to jhooti marror hai sir.

Although I seldomly reply to posts , i M CONTENDED BY READING THE PRESTIGIOUS VIEWS OF OUR JATLANDER BHAI AND BEHENS AND FRIENDS,
But this issue is realy a hot one and needs be dealt with carefully, I was tempted to write.
I would like our elders and experienced folks at the Jatland to react and respond in this matter.

But being proud of Jat is a nice thing but it does not give me any right to look down others.

 

[devdagar]

Stop it guys/gals

Hi All,
1.I was stoping myself from long time..but I could not..anyway since I am here I will ask everyone to stop this thread. This topic was discussed so many times and everytime its end up in fighting or dividing us.

I have my own opinion...but I will keep it to myself .

chill guys its new yr, lets do something better.
Please please stop this thread.

 

[kharub]

Naveen Bhai Sahab, though I do not know you personally, the opinion I hold of you from this platform is very high and I hold deep respect for you.

I do not think that I have any social contribution to name to date to confront you on social issues. But that does not mean I cannot have an opinion and a right to state one.
So even though I might not be any way near you in terms of accomplishments ..... I guess I still have a right to think and argue

Great Priti, for calling a stick a stick a spade a spade

Let me put a few words without the intention to hurt, just as i feel it

1. I am as proud of being a Jat as can be but i will say "Dont be only a Jat, grow up, grow beyond that, evolve"

Then why are you still stuck with the Jat label ... why dont you move beyond that ... it being a Jat is not significant .. then stop calling yourself a Jat. Just be a Haryanvi or an Indian ... grow out of this backward mould

Does evolving means forgetting the Jat identity ... is evolution and being a Jat at such great odds with each other ...... I did not know the only thing being a Jat meant was being backward and living in the stone age ..... Well then I choose a life of ignorance ... and rather rot way in my cave ... and hunt for food with my stone spears and eat raw meat ...because we have not learned to make a fire as yet

2. I cant be a Jat at the cost of hurting the sentiments of members of other communities. They are as much my brothers as you all are.

Well if being a Jat hurts others then will you stop being a Jat - I tell you what this is exactly a lot of people are waiting for. My two best friends are Arab Muslims, one die-hard reborn Christian .... even if they have a problem with my religious beliefs .. I am not gonna go and change my religion .. however upset it might make them ......... Why do the sentiments of other communities get hurt if you are a Jat ........ why ??

Is being Jat such a bad thing ??

3. If being a Jat means being disrespectful to other communities or anyone, please dont call me a Jat.

Who said being a Jat means dis-respectful to other communities .. who said that ..... and why do you think being a Jat is disrespectful to other communities.

My dad's best friends is Punjabi, Bishnoi, Yadav, A baniya from my village and a sunar, but he is a Jat and married a Jatni .... so is he being disrespectful to them ........ Maybe its the inferiority complex .. that being a Jat means bad or disrespecting others ......... following ones customs does not mean disrespecting others ......... Have you disrespected Americans by marrying an Indian women - whatever cast she might be ?? ........ Cmmon it does not make sense ...

4. Let us make Jat community be known for something better than biceps.

Well I dont know where you live ... but Jat community has achieved much more than biceps ... DLF ... Seth Chajju Ram, Sindhu Family - Rohtak and there are many such .... just see how many IITans we have here & doctors and other highly distinguished professionals ... which time are you talking about ... a lot have Jats have moved away form that a long time ago ... yes some are still doing it .... but its better than begging

5. Culture and traditions? If we continued to believe in stone age traditions we would still be living in stone age. We, as humans, have to evolve.

Does evolving mean Inter-Ethnic (inter-caste) marriage only .. because you are into one .... I am sorry one can still evolve and keep traditions .... trust me I do not go out hunting with stone spears for food and wear animal skins ... and nor do my family ...

Let JAT have a bigger meaning.

If Jats will cease to exist .. as what you are proposing then we wont need a meaning .... because if somethng does not exist .. it does not need to be defined
What meaning will you give if inter-caste marriages will result in Jats not being Jats